Ex-Cop ThatDangDad explains the 'Good cops dilemma', why he joined, why he quit 

I'm in this video and I don't like it... I love it!

Good cops don't stay cops. They quit, get fired, or hazed to death during training exercises by the cops they reported.

As a trans woman I would not feel safer if I was pulled over by a trans cop, I hope she finds her happiness, but that's a weird way to do it in my mind.

I am a transgender woman and former Corrections Officer. Hearing about @ThatDangDad's processing I found very relatable. I struggle with similar guilt. I feel I betrayed myself and my community. I don't think I was a good CO although while I was in I thought I was. It wasn't until I started seeing the corruption and understanding that I left. I grew up thinking cops were the good guys and all I ever wanted to do was help but its a hard pill to swallow to realize you're the problem upholding a corrupt system.

That story about planting drugs on someone who was just having a bad night pushed me from police reform to abolishment. I know it happens often but just hearing it said from someone who saw it.

THE CROSSOVER WE DIDNT KNOW WE NEEDED!!! Both of you are incredible and have access to audiences most progressives don't. You literally cannot physically understand how important the work you two are doing is. Brings tears to my eyes. Keep it up

about the whole "google is free" types of responses- while someone might not feel comfortable or want to talk to someone like that; the way that a conservative is going to google about trans issues or police reform or whatever topic is likely going to lead them just back into conservatism because itll show them shit like pragerU. having people like you and phil to be able to ease people into this is incredibly important and i dont think its appreciated enough. thank you both.

The points about convincing conservatives really hit close to home. I'm trans woman and former evangelical Christian, and I've had a lot of trouble talking to family members and explaing my identity to them. The biggest thing I've learned is you cannot use facts and logic to persuade a conservative because they don't actually care about facts. They already belive themselves to be in the right, and there is often very little that can be said to convince them otherwise. Often it is an appeal to emotion and empathy that makes more of an impact. If you can show someone directly why what they believe is harmful, they'll be a lot more open to change than if TELL them that what they believe is harmful. Most conservatives aren't just evil, unreasonable people, they've just been steeped in a flawed version of reality their whole lives. If you can ask them enough questions to get them to think a little deeper about WHY they believe what they believe, you'll find many of them are simply ignorant. I don't believe the majority of conservatives are evil at heart, they may just need a nudge in the right direction. With grace and empathy, rather than shame. Leave shame to the christians, we can be better than that

As someone raise far right christian conservative in the southern US and am now a liberal/leftist, i can say this was an amazing interview. I wasnt a cop. But i was a soldier in the infantry

Bro i used to work with you at Best Buy in Alaska! Glad to see you are doing well! Keep up the good work!

One thing that caught my ear around @12:30 regarding “controlling” people… Lord Kelvin who invented the Kelvin system of measuring temperature once said “in order to control nature we must first measure it!”. Well cops measure the public’s behavior every day and when you measure something whether it’s an employee’s performance or a citizen’s adherence to the law it gives the sense that the person is under their control. So when someone wants to control another person they become extremely strict and don’t let anything slide.

40:55 A wild thing about how poorly I was taught history in the south, until a couple years ago I didn't realize that black Americans could vote in the south after the end of the civil war and it was Jim Crow laws that removed that right. I'm 30. I should've known that especially after taking AP US history

"Thats when i got out of law enforcement and got into um..." *cuts to world of warcraft ad*

Not two of my biggest Internet crushes in a single video together!

i think we need more lefty content like this, none of the theory jargon and overproduced videoessays (though they have their place and are still great), but real talk about experiances and rationale. i feel like im watching a podcast as apposed to a lecture without missing out on anything important. keep up the amazing work!

I was actively reading the words reading "full-time himbo" on a different tab while Squid said "I have a full time job"

I love this guy, I'm really looking forward to this video. 💖

The whole thing around the section starting at 1:38:23 really bugs me because I would consider myself to have been saved by people going out of their way to "debate" me. It was less about debate and more about answering my questions, but that's how I was perceived. There's also these videos by people that are well regarded in the community saying "Don't engage, you won't argue them out of conservatism" or anything else considered more 'on the right', "they're just trying to get you upset." During this time, I was watching Prager, JP, BS, and all the other big awful names the people in this community are aware of woefully. I'm downright ashamed of the beliefs I held at this time. Always going on about "this is what my parents would do, they'd be so proud of me." I definitely understand it to a degree, but we're being told that everyone's mind is made up on everything. We absolutely know this isn't true and we're lying to ourselves. All it took from me was thinking "I wonder how the other side thinks" and doing even the tiniest bit of research. I started at that one detrans subreddit. I found a trans friend. I started watching videos about queer people, sometimes even by them. As I consumed the media and learned what was available to me, a video I was watching recommended 'reading the gender dysphoria bible'. These videos were NOT aimed at people that already knew about themselves. These videos were aimed at neutral to 'hostile' parties. As I read through, I was actually freaking out. "Oh shiiiiit", I thought. "That's me." I was repressing my feelings since I was a kid because of my upbringing. So much so that I cry every time I think about how I felt, praying to god every night, begging I would wake up as a girl. Videos being available, not designed for people already compacted into your group, are unbelievably important. If every video started with "This video isn't for you..." I sure as hell wouldn't be here typing this out. I doubt I'd even be alive. Not everyone is dead set on their beliefs and we cannot pretend they are.

Just the intro and I’m hooked! I can say, though me quote on quote “getting out of Catholicism” was due to the literal treatment and lack of respect for my own choices, (not wanting to be married to a man, being told often that being queer was a sin) was when I questioned everything. The comments of “it was gods will” in response to horrible tragedies, genocides, and to deaths of loved ones. Alls this to say, I know there are many people who are queer that also are catholic, but for me personally, breaking away from something so young was my first step into realizing myself.

I think there's two types of feeling stupid, and that this is relevant here: The first is the type of stupid where you feel like you wandered into a test and immediately failed. No chance for a redo, only the consequences of not having the information needed being immediately thrust upon you. The second is the type of stupid where you see something you can't do right now. You'd have to learn something before doing that thing, but it's also the opportunity to grow. The cost is admitting that you didn't have the answer at the start, which can feel a lot like feeling stupid. The first sucks no matter what, but if you fall in love with that second feeling, you're in for a very interesting world based on growth and recognition of every opportunity that comes your way. I think a punishment based justice system requires many people to think that the second type of stupid doesn't exist, that any insufficiency is going to end with violence against your body. If one was in this mindset, so much energy would be put into avoiding the feeling of being stupid, of setting up preventative measures. This can happen by like going under the speed limit, sure, but an extension of this could be someone having a really hard time going outside their bubble. They would imagine every LGBT+ person is out to get them, because there's no way for them to interact with a new group without being wrong about something, and therefore punished. That second kind of stupid is kindof a miracle, in this sense. it's a liberation from the feeling that every time you're wrong someone is going to hurt you. I think especially coming from a religious position, i'd be more excited seeing someone in the church learn that, than someone outside the church getting inducted into a church that only wants conformity from them.

Loved seeing this interview! You both have a really great outlook on how to help conservatives see how the wool is being pulled over their eyes, and it was cool to see a dialogue where both speakers build off what the other is saying.

Also free Palestine 🇵🇸

Oh shit, two of my absolute favorite ally creators; I can't wait! 💜

Eyo I made the yeen design lol. Just repainted my motorcycle, so now's the perfect time. It took quite a while for me to find out that Dang Dad was a cop in Kentucky of all places. I'm staying here, and I'm gonna be a criminal defense lawyer. My advice is that if you want to change the system from inside out, be serious: don't go straight to the most visible, most glamourous stuff, as it leaves you directly exposed to powers who seek to control you. We desperately need public defenders. Think outside the box that they want you to see.

You didn’t make good choices you had good choices…. Damn that quote is gonna stick with me for a good long while, and I’m so glad I found this channel.

You two must've been cooking up a mad storm in the kitchen, because this fire is gonna burn down the whole precinct!

Every time I am reminded That Dang Dad is named Phil I'm like yep that's a Phil

OMG, I love Philosophy Tube… That’d be a great crossover…

I was waiting for this colab to finally happen, and I'm so glad for it. What a wonderful smathering of topics. Two of my favs!

I am former law enforcement and the intro to this has me hooked. I have a feeling this is gonna be a hella good interview...

There are days I worry for my baby brother, who went through a lot but contemplated being a state trooper when he graduated high school... He ultimately joined the National Guard, and...things were so rocky, throughout the years. He's gone on active duty tour to someplace that cannot be disclosed, but I minimized my interactions with him after he got himself caught up in personal dramas I just...don't have the emotional capacity to be patient with. I'm caught in the weird situation of having so many relatives that served in the military, and I care for them...but I also feel off about numerous aspects about the military. And when it comes to local cops? It's been so tricky, throughout the years. Too often, I've noticed how apathetic they can be, and I almost wound up in an accident because of a reckless sheriff-and surprise, surprise, no-one at the station gave a shit when I attempted to report it. I saw quite a bit during my gas station job from years ago that forced me to contemplate quite a few introspections. The only time I was ever given any actual shred of help from the police, during that job, was when I actually had physical harm done to me (and I had been the fool who put myself in that situation, when I had been trained to not put myself in such predicaments-but I allowed myself to get too emotional and got decked in the eye for it). And even then, I'm unsure how likely they would've bothered helping me if I wasn't white. I'm in a more liberal-leaning state, and my town has so many communities of color and fellow LGBTQ+....but doesn't change the fact that fucked up shit still happens, even here. And that "special training" bit, in this vid? As sickening as the drugs being planted to slap bogus charges on people. It gets harder and harder to not outright go ACAB, especially when police institutions are almost never truly held accountable for the awful things they do. I don't doubt quite a few of the people who stick it out in the police force get kickbacks from the prison industry.

Digging ditches isn’t fun but thinking about digging ditches without music is harder than actually doing the work

Dude, Behind The Bastards is one of my favorite shows and I'm so glad you brought it up. When I started this video within like 10 seconds one of the first things that came to mind was the episode of BTB about David Grossman, titled "The Man Who Teaches Our Cops to Kill." Grossman is, a self-proclaimed "killologist" (not a real science, obviously; he made that word up,) and he's also, very appropriately, a very gross man, who authored The Bulletproof Mindset, which is the single most influential cop training program in the US, teaching our cops things like to view every civilian they encounter as an "insurgent" and themselves as "warriors," framing us as the enemy in an actual war. I wanted to make a comment saying how interesting it would be to heat your guys' take on the episode of you had seen it, and especially to hear Phil's take, as a former police officer. So it's just funny that I thought of BTB so early in the video, and then within 4 minutes you mentioned another episode of BTB. I guess it's just that good of a show!

on the point of creating a "soft landing" for people questioning their conservative beliefs or looking to learn more, i don't mean this to shame or discredit you, but i believe you generally have to have a certain amount of privilege to be *able* to be the one having conversations and directing those former conservatives. being (or seeming) cishet, or white, or male, or neurotypical, etc gives you a position where you aren't normally faced with immediate hate, derision, or violence when dealing with those kinds of people, and doing so presents far less of a risk to you than someone who is visibly lgbt, disabled, a poc, or any other targeted group. whether they are coming to you in good faith and in hope of learning or not, it's still a gamble to bet on them *being* someone who's safe to be around when you're a vulnerable individual.

The RU-vid algo has truly blessed me today 🙏 EDIT: The point about the flag indicating you're a "safe" person is SO true. Leftist himbos, take note!

"Why training doesn't fix cops" I can absolutely relate to what dang dad is saying... regarding trauma response triggered with 5yo.... I'll be 45yo in a few weeks. My youngest is 5yo, I'm on my own with no help from my ex etc. I also have cptd, adhd and probably autistic (so are both kids)... I get triggered, way more than I'd like... more so when I'm not being listened too (due to medical trauma, childhood trauma and just never having a safe person in my life that I could completely trust to have my best interest at heart... and when 5yo gets physical hitting, kicking etc it triggers my dv and childhood abuse trauma reaponse)... its extremely difficult to keep my cool. I am able to recognize and label what is happening more and more, which helps diffuse said trauma reaponses... even if I do yell, I'm always quick to apologize and have a talk about what went wrong and how we can both handle big emotions better next time. He has more nonverbal episodes than my 3rd grader, so that adds an extra layer of difficulty. I love both of these creators! I've gained a ton of insight, valudation and catharsis on so many levels, over the years. Yall are greatly appreciated and loved.

Two engaging RU-vidrs speaking truth.✊

The fact that both he and i’s liberal awakening was philosophytube. Based af if you ask me

34 mins in and I just noticed his shirt, hell yeah brother!

I agree with the statements about the importance of questions and try to always answer people, who approach me to ask about trans stuff. But I think many people don’t realize how scary even gentle and sincere questions can be. Every time someone approaches me with one of those I’m scared, because there is no way for me to know why the person is asking. I have been asked “Why are there so many trans people all of a sudden?” and in that situation, I just have to guess if this is a conservative trying to make sense of the world, or a far right ******* trying to f**k with me. And even in the best cases it’s exhausting. I had several occasions where I ruined my evenings by being patient and polite with well meaning cis people. I don’t want to be rude and confirm that stereotype of angry trans person demanding perfect knowledge and behavior ... But to be honest I really wish I had at least one space where questions were categorically unwelcome.

ThatDangDad and SquidTips LESS GOOOOOOOO!!!

I smacked this on in the background to try hear about the inner workings, this was really really good

The greatest crossover of our time

3:37 "here and three" in the red captions. P.S. I love your videos, very inspiring work to get me motivate to help the community around me, thank you.

32:44 exactly. I have a difficult time getting a certain family member to even begin to acknowledge any piece of this.

Two YTrs I love! Great chat, guys. Wish I could have all my friends to sit down for two hours and reflect on what you guys just said. Great work, keep it up!

This sort of thing has been weighing on my mind for a while. My brother entered the police force recently after years and years of debating on it, and believing there could be good done in the service. He has always been very progressive and liberal, but im worried he will start to become cynical and whatnot if he starts to see just how corrupt it is on the inside. All im hoping is that he stays safe and stays himself. Im in a weird position where i love my brother more than anything, and want to support him in his dreams and goals, but am also aware in the inherent corruption in the police and law enforcement departments. Guess i just needed to get this out there, if anyone can chime in please do.

Such an eye opening conversation ❤

This crossover was definitely needed.

Man, my parents' high school friend's older brother died in a motorcycle accident while fleeing from a cop... Mom has asked me once, "why was he so stupid? Why did he run?" I think I said something like, "He didn't know he would die, mom, he thought he could get away. Most bikers do. He was unlucky*." (*And possibly drunk? I'm not a hundred percent sure, she gave more details the first time she told me this story 12-10 years ago. This most recent time didn't go as deep.) But yeah. It's interesting to hear you joke about catching motorcyclists.

Who’s cats was meowing in the background

1:01:00 There is a body cam of an officer stopping a guy, found a closed bottle of booze in the car, dumped out the bottle on the highway threw it back in the car (all on video) and then said to the supervising officer that showed up that they found an open bottle in the car - demonstrably not true. The prosecutor in the case STILL USED the fact that there was an open bottle in the prosecution of a DUI charge that was never dropped.

I. Am. Chuffed. The collab that I didn't know I needed. Love both of you.

I knew about @thatdangdad before this video. I am mildly suprised to see you guys podcast together. I just never would ahvw pt these two things together, but it is a great fit! Good job guys.

Could listen to you two for hours... And I have!

Even the whole individual racist acts racistly thing/explanation can still has systemically racist outcomes if that individual racist has authority to create policy, and accomplices to cover for them...

this was such a great discussion between you two. to add to what has been said here, i agree with what you both said about conservatives. as someone who was "groomed" into conservatism, i was very uncuriouss, the empathetic parts of my brain were turned off and i thought i knew everything there was to know.

I am so glad they are making this point: Plenty of people in marginalized communities work their butt off. But they don't get the same ROI for that work. Also the point about the timing of when these people were able to make these choices. My great grandfather was LITERATE. A black man in 1900 may not have been. That alone was a massive leg up. But it isn't just that - it is all these compounding factors over time. There is just so much being said here that white men who believe they are being persecuted and marginalized by things like critical race theory need to hear. Many will not hear it and take it in. But some will. I certainly did. I had a similar journey to this guy. Was never a cop but I was in that bubble.

Absolutely loved the video; great talk.

I have to come back to this video and finish it, but at forty-two minutes in, I am in tears. I just got jumped six days ago in a relatively nice neighborhood and I happen to be a Trans Female. I called the police, they came and looked at my face and took pictures. I didn't want to think it a hate crime but I'm beginning to think more and more that perhaps it was. I don't feel the police in my area took me seriously enough. Six days in and no additional questions. My husband has had to do investigating on his own to maybe see if cameras nearby the Christian University where it happened may have caught something. Nothing as of yet. I will finish this video, but I wanted to share my corner of the world of police and the good ones and the bad ones.

love that we both were awakened by Destiny

We love ThatDangDad! Great video.

i just started the video but i do want to second that seeing pride flags on your channel is very comforting. as a trans guy ive felt that i have to be skeptical about who i watch because so many times it ends up being that they don't support people like me. i also really appreciate you bringing people from your community to do art for merch! so many people now are turning to bland AI stuff, but supporting not inly actual artists but giving back to your community like that is amazing. thank you for what you do and i look forward to watching the rest of this video :]

Thanks for the video Alex ! Are you familiar with the Stanford prison experiment / study from 1971 ? If not I think you would find it interesting and pertinent to this topic. A quick search will bring you lots of hits including a Wikipedia article. Best wishes & Good Luck !!!

This is a crossover I didn't expect, but I love it!

You can not reason someone out of a belief they didn’t reason themselves into. Fact.

Wasn't expecting to watch the whole thing but here I am thoroughly engaged

I love how you guys are breaking down your understandings of the systems we live in. It's very easy to ignore marginalization when we're taught that the systems that cause it don't exist.

1:38:27 I happen to be one of those LGBTQ+ people who has the calling to reach out to conservative brainwormed people who are freshly disillusioned. I used to be one myself in another life and I felt on some level the entire time I was spouting my nonsense and alienating myself to everyone that it would have helped somewhat just to have greater exposure to non-conservative people that would prove all the thought terminating cliches to be completely absurd. I wanted to feel safe to be myself around someone. Unfortunately every progressive person I know cut me off immediately without a second thought, and I often think about marginalized people in the same situation I was, unable to escape the environment they are in because they're compelled to spout all of the rhetoric or model the lifestyle they've been brought up with *or else*. It's been going somewhat well. I wish more people like you were doing it and I appreciate what you're doing. Sodomy is based.

you consistently post the coolest shit man

@~14:00: can confirm. I grew up riding just outside of DC(NoVA) and motorcycle cops were definitely worse.

The girl who tricked DangDad into quitting was the GOAT

Great conversation again suiddy! It was incredible hearing how his perspective changed wrt 2020

These podcasts make my day! I hope to someday be able to do something like this too! 🙏🏽

Wow a gun/motorcycle guy who’s also liberal not trying to put you in a box but it’s refreshing that people like me exist. I consider myself very middle of the road, I’m open to compromise and debate on almost all topics. Ride and Carry safe!

The algorithm finally united my love of motorcycles and leftism. Will I keep getting ads for holsters and "making the tool grow" here?

"Marvel infinity war is the most ambitious crossover ever" Honey please, we got squid tips with that dang dad. Nothing can beat that.

I was hoping that you would start a podcast

Great video!

Thanks so much for making videos like this❤ you guys rock!

How many speeding tickets have you gotten? And how did you deal with them?

Looking at my phone... like 90% of every clocked minute of copwork is looking at their phone: think about EVERY news video clip youve ever seen and there are 20 cops on scene looki g at their phone or standing around slapping each other on the back

I'm going to share this with everyone!! 😄

11:35 the hand movements 🤣 🤣 looked like you popped the clutch, skipped 1st gear, and wheeled away... 🤔🤣 Subbed 👍🤣

Awesome video!

The crossover I needed

I found the conversation around Phil's parents growing up very interesting. My family history follows that story as well, being of European ancestry who moved to the States in the late 1800s (I've found myself thankful that my ancestors didnt migrate until after the Civil War). My grandfather was born on the farm his father was born on in the Great Plains of North Dakota, and he attended a oneroom schoolhouse until he went to a catholic school in the capital. I think about a lot what he thought of the society around him, especially since he is now a Fox News Watcher. He enlisted in the Vietnam War after having a drunken night at 18 with his buddy. I know he did some time in Japan as well after Vietnam. But after the military, he became a post office worker and he retired early thanks to the pension and having 100% disability from the VA. He still lives in the house where he raised his two children, and its in a strange area that is a mix of young families, older people, and then low income, tend to be into drugs. I hear how he talks about black people and mainly Native Americans since there's a higher pop of natives than black people. And I just wonder why. Both of his children are not like him, they did not get the "American Dream." Both my father and uncle have thrown their lives away to drugs and they live somewhat closer lives to who my grandfather looks down upon. He's not explicitly racist, he doesn't have Extreme Fox Brain like others after 2020, but i just wonder why he thinks the way he does. long comment with no real purpose, but i wanted to share

On the point of respect, forgiveness and tolerance: A lot if the time when we’re taking about redemption, we often talk about whether or not someone deserves it. When someone does something wrong, we all acknowledge that it can’t be undone. There’s no going back to fix your past mistakes, and no amount of regret will change what you did. And indeed, no amount of reparations can earn back someone’s forgiveness. Sometimes putting in the good work can redeem someone’s trust, but that trust is freely given: not bought. But after we’re done the semantics, *what do we do with that?* Here’s my takeaway: If someone loses your trust, it doesn’t mean they don’t deserve respect, and if someone doesn’t deserve your respect, it doesn’t mean you can’t learn from them. Phil participated inside a system that incentivizes cruelty, and perpetuates violence. He no longer does and criticizes the system for those reasons. I think that’s respectable. More importantly than that, I’m interested in learning from that unique perspective that he has with the criminal justice system. Whatever I think about him as a person doesn’t keep me from hearing him out and developing my moral maturity because of it.

Hearing you two guys made me happy. :)

Good to see you back. I miss motorcycle videos.

that G.K. Chesterton quote is everything I aspire to be - the poet mathematician

I love you guys. I don't even want to ride motorcycles but I appreciate your content as LGBTQIA friendly background noise. I send your videos to my wife who wants a motorcycle. It is so nice to see that there are true allies everywhere. Its reassuring.

hell yeah!

I could have this SAME EXACT conversation with you. Happy to talk if you want. Not famous, but would love to sit down and chat about the conservative-ish to progressive leftist path and pipeline.

Homie called a painting a meme. I'm mad about it. But it's become a fucking meme by definition. Dammit.

I forgive people eventually; but the abuse makes it hard to believe anyone is genuine.

As a software engineer who always dreamed of working with computers for a living, I can't fathom how someone stumbles into a career in computing. He was probably not a very good programmer.

Good video

Omg Daddy’s back 🥰

My grandfather was an officer, it's done and immense ammount of damage to his mental over the years. The trauma of the job causes officers (people) to make decisions they might even know are bad in the moment and commit to it anyways. Policing As a system is garbage in it's current state with little to no regard for life on either side of the blue line. People deserve better policing, police deserve a better framework. Acab is only half true, cops become "bad" with trauma (same as soldiers and doctors). Restructuring the legal/social system around preventative action is the only way to reliably reduce the incidence of clashes with police (which again saves lives for officers and civillians).