@@565goodmoney - because I know you’re just a little kid living with his parents and have not developed your frontal lobe yet, here’s the link ru-vid.comoLiASN4Tao4?feature=share You’re welcome - 🤪🤣
I remember Gilbert constantly telling a story about playing with Jordan on the wizards. Fact is he never played on Jordan’s team. That should tell you enough.
Gilbert asks us what does winning "have to do with the best player"? Nothing I guess, Gilbert. You're right. Why did we ever think winning was the goal in competition?
These are the type of illogical arguments you have to come up with to support LeBron.....how many rings would the bulls have without m.j.???? All the bulls rings came with m.j.
EEEEEESSSSSSPPPPPPECIALLY with all the new rules to protect players. Jordan was literally getting bullied and tossed around the court back in his day. And just shrugged it off and got better and beat them.
@@ShawnE31415 knowing how to play, and knowledge of the game are different things. This is the same guy that basically said Gianni’s is not a good player because he doesn’t have a jump shot our crazy dribbling
It's obvious that being an NBA player doesn't indicated you know basketball. Consider Shaq. Probably one of the best centers in NBA history but he's an absolute idiot. Profressional athletes are not the smartest people in our society.
What I find interesting about the Jordan vs Lebron GOAT debate is I keep hearing the Lebron camp saying "well if this isn't enough, what else does Lebron have to do?". In my mind, that's exactly the wrong mindset and why people are so stat focused. To me, Jordan is the GOAT not just because of his stats but because of his image, his work ethic, what he represented for the NBA, and how he inspires future generations. It also why I would put even Kobe above Lebron in a GOAT debate. Lebron is who he is. He's a great player and one of the best to ever lace up. But he is who he is as an athlete and role model. Jordan takes it personal and and will work even harder destroy the opposition, Lebron complains and comes up with excuses. Kobe will win with bones spurs, pops back dislocated fingers without even pausing the game, and sink free throws with a blown achilles, Lebron puts on a cast for a post-game to show how he's not 100% after a loss. There's nothing Lebron can really do to change who he is and the image and legacy he's already established. So there's nothing Lebron can do to become the GOAT.
The biggest problem with Bron's GOAT argument is you have to down play the most important thing...winning. Herm Edwards said it best "You play to win the game!" Everyone will have stats if they play long enough, but the greats of the greats win more. Melo has more points than Hakeem and Duncan, but you will find no one that will say Melo was better than Duncan or Hakeem. Hell winning one chip is the only reason Doc Rivers was ranked a top 15 coach all-time. Winning is and was everything until Bron came along and his fans had to change the narrative.
I believe the quote I heard recently went something like this..... "When you're good, you tell everybody. When you're great, they tell you." I rest my case.
Melo wasn't better than either 😂 Again no defense. Hakeem could score as good as him and was light years better defender. Hakeem has 2 quadruple doubles in his career only player to do that. Melo isn't even in the NBA, not that he doesn't want to be, he does but no one wants to watch a dude score 12 points off the bench but turn around and give up 25 to whoever he's guarding
You know they were making the same kind of arguments about Jordan. Before Jordan, it was all about sharing the ball and the big man down low and someone as selfish as Jordan could never be the goat. "A Real good player passes the ball". I remember a quote for some no-name Streetballer from back in the day circa 1993 "I'm beginning to hate Jordan he is a selfish Ball-hog" The bottom line is you can make all kinds of arguments as to why Lebron doesn't deserve to be the Goat but I've heard it all before about: 1. Jordan 2. Magic 3. Kobe 4. Kareem The real reason that you cannot crown Lebron the Goat is because of your own immaturity and short-sightedness, but mostly your own immaturity. Immature men who haven't accomplished anything in Life hate success Me? I give Credit where credit is due but then again...... I've been there and have done that..... Or maybe I am not an Immature Child anymore.... We will be having this same conversation about Steph Curry later on. I can see it now the stupid arguments against Steph Curry being the Goat circa 2040.... " A good player dominates in the paint" "A good player dunks to send a statement" "Steph Curry is not the goat because he is too selfish to be a point guard" or... "HE HAD A SUPERTEAM!" (that is the most laughably hysterical argument I have ever heard yet...) History just repeats itself over and over again and people are just too shortsighted despite the 200-core 500 gigabyte ram super computer they have. People are stupid!
People also forget that with the advancements in sports science and just medical science in general has given players nowadays a huge advantage in terms of being able to play at a high level for longer. We're seeing it in all sports across the globe with more elite athletes with unprecedented longevity. MJ being elite at 35 when he won his last chip in the 90s is simply insane.
Jordan’s single playoffs game scoring record has stood for 36 years, almost as long as Kareem’s record. Oh, and he has 5 of the other top 15 single playoff game performances.
Son a gun I literally was about to make this comment but u beat me I literally just did the math lol but word the all time playoff scorer ain’t even beat 63pts
-- Lebron is a great scorer. But greatest scorer? MJ Lebron has more points than MJ bc he has 20 seasons. MJ had 15 seasons and...skipped 1.5 years of PRIME MJ (age 30).
Just imagine if Jordan had gone straight from high school to the NBA and never interrupted his career to play baseball. We wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
Lebron is not even in the conversation for Goat. I seen him quit against the Celtics walking off the floor with minutes left. I seen him get outplayed by Jason Terry in a championship series when he was in his time. Plus he travels all the time 😂😂.
@@cressro That is smart! Prolonged his Career! If you are a lock to be #1 seed in the playoffs why play the last 10 games? Football does that all the time, why not basketball!
Let's be real, what is Gilbert Arenas known for besides his nickname "Agent 0" and for him pulling a gun out on a teammate in the locker room over a card game bet? And Arenas asked "What does the chip have to do with it?" It has a lot to do with it because you play the game to win and to win the ultimate prize, which Arenas seems to have forgotten. But i guess it's easy to forget when he never won one.
I only feel bad for the impressionable youth who don’t know better and actually listen to Gilbert, who we can see didn’t prioritize winning, especially when it counts to downplay the legacy of one of the greatest winners in all major sports. Between him bc and JJ Reddick, they’re both building tall fortresses with all these bricks they’re offering up
Yes it was !! Today's NBA is a joke. Un watchable. Thats why ratings are at an all time low. The bubble championship had everyone home due to Covid-19 and only 4 million viewers tuned in to watch Lebum lol Jordan's last championship against Utah in 98 drew 88 million lol says it all
This is such an accurate video. Also Gilbert arenas is part of Lebron circle so they will do anything to move the goal post and lie and contradict themselves for Lebron
You don't need to disrespect the older player's era to prop up today's era it's so lame! From the second someone says F winning or winning doesn't matter, they should not be taken seriously!
MJ said it best, it’s not fair to compare players from different eras. Yet here are the LeDouche 🍆 riders keep trying to prop him up as the GOAT. Puh-leeze. MJ never claimed to be the GOAT, and he’s always given props to the people who came before him. LeDouche proclaiming he’s the GOAT is top-notch douchebaggery.
I like how all of these guys actually played against transitional players that didn't dominate the supposedly "weak era" of the 90s, but did dominate in the 2000s and beginning of the 2010s, lol. Kobe being a prime example. Shaq and Tim Duncan, another. It's like they can't even fathom the irony of their own argument disproving itself. Especially LeBron. Here's a guy that wasn't the best player in the 2000s, but dominated in the 2010s and even the 2020s, and yet, today's players are supposedly so superior. 🤔🙄
Those players you mentioned weren’t in their peak in the 90s but babies around that time. Once Shaq became unstoppable the league changed the illegal defense rule because Shaq took advantage of it just like MJ did. Jordan ain’t go up against any zone defenses
@@omaidolor8929 False. Teams ran zone in the 80s-90s even though it was illegal. Shaq was elite the moment he stepped foot in the NBA and played 7 seasons in the 90s. Getting rid of illegal defense was to increase scoring and make more perimeter players Jordan like. Also it shouldn't matter if they were babies if the league was weak. Players from the 80s-90s played throughout the 00s-10s.
I disagree with you in saying that LJ didn't dominate in the 2000's he did, LJ didn't win for the same reason that AI.... because they didn't have a solid squad! Give LJ and AI the same squad that Kobe had and the same coach and his unselfish game and they've won easily 5.
@@sideshowbobsaget8876 Teams snuck in zone occasionally but end of the day subconsciously they knew they couldn’t so obviously it makes it hard to maintain that zone coverage. Compared to todays era teams can literally sit in a zone all game long, 2-3, 3-2, 1-3-1, etc. Back in the 90s and 80s dominant teams would literally move players far away from the basket so players like MJ would go one on one with weaker defenders with 0 help coverage. That’s easy for any superstar f the 2000s and 2010 era why? Because they are more skilled and would be able to get by a defender a whole lot easier. Players today are more athletic, faster, bigger, stronger I mean let’s be serious Mugsy Bogues and Soud Webb wouldn’t even be thought of in an NBA draft today.
@@omaidolor8929 False, teams ran zone all the time in the 80s-90s. Iso happens all the time in the 00s-10s and 20s. Players from the 80s-90s played throughout the 00s-10s. All you have to do is watch full games from the 80s-90s
For me, it has always been simple. If I step on a court against a group of 4th graders on an 8-ft court, I can do everything James can do. I do not have the skill or moves like Jordan. Jordan came back better each year, adding a new wrinkle to his game. To be able to get a great, not good, look whenever he wanted. Was Karl Malone a better scorer than Jordan?? Arenas is bugging.
LeBron #1 ability is being allowed to pound the rock entire shot clocks. Burning the playbook for awkward multi-step back 3s, or firing late awkward passes to guys not really open (Korver)
@East Bee103 if 38% long distance is "best optimal shot".. then NBA HQ should've moved the line back 5 years ago. - Emphasize the mid range and post game fundamentals again.. like 1990s (best Era)
Karl Malone would have broken Kareem's record if he wanted to continue playing, he just didn't have the motivation anymore after his last try with the Lakers.
@Giovanni Williams lebron started at 18 on NBA. Not just those 2 season. Also the season from bulls to wizard. He didnt play. Plus 1985, he got injured.
@@giovanniwilliams9009 yeah coz MJ only played 15 seasons meanwhile Kareem played almost 20 years that's almost 5 years more and Kareem played about 500 more games and 17000 minutes than MJ, and MJ only played 13 proper seasons as he was injured in other 2 and still had a better average than Kareem. Kareem was ahead of MJ by 6k points so MJ would've had to average like 3k points a season that's 37 ppg and averaging that for 2 seasons would be impossible onl Wilt could average such crazy numbers
According to Gilbert, record breaking is the main goal of all the players, not winning a chip. So NBA fans youre just wasting money buying tickets to see them live.
I'd never heard anyone ever say that Kareem's scoring record would never be broken. I've heard it said of Wilt's 100 point game and Stockton's steals for example.
James turnover record will never be broken. He is so far ahead of any other current player that he’s setting an astronomical number that will never be touched.
Thanks for reminding me. Exactly what I thought!! It was almost a lock that Malone would break Kareem's record. Any decent scorer with extra longevity can do it.
The talent is so much better today than in the 90s though. Just because the game in the 80s and 90s was more physical doesn’t mean defense was overall tougher.
He does but he has to back bron cuz what he cares about is himself and he knows he'll be talked about it he goes against common sense. The man acknowledged Jordan would average over 40 in this league and he thinks totals matter more? What do you think he would say if you told him jj reddick and hundreds of others are better scorers and players than arenas?
@@ShawnE31415 The talent is much better on offense, but that has a lot to do with increased spacing and players not being allowed to be physical on defense. An average athlete that is allowed to be physical is likely to play better defense than a great athlete that isn't allowed to be physical. Not that there weren't a lot of great athletes in the league back in the 80s and 90s either.
@@ShawnE31415 Defense was overall tougher. You play good defense on a star now the refs start blowing the whistle. You saw that last night with Dame. There were no one on one possessions where the Rockets were allowed to get a stop on Dame without a foul call. It was double him or he scores one way or another. There's a reason why Luka said the NBA is easier than Euroleague and why LeBron averages 30 at 38 years old. You're not allowed to play defense now.
Moral of the story is LeBron fans CAN NOT stick with any particular reasons to why LeBron is the GOAT they flip flop and contradict themselves 24-7 while Jordan fans stick to their reasons to why Jordan the GOAT...... NOBODY has the resume of stats accolades and titles than Jordan until then he will remain the GOAT 🤷🏾♂️
I loved watching agent 0 play. It really makes me sad that he has all these silly takes. Gilbert changed his whole tune when Vernon Maxwell was on his podcast 😂😂😂. Be consistent bruh all I can say
Well said! And MJ's WOW Factor? Jordan's tongue and personality get more women. It's just not sexy to pass in order to get the ball back and score an easier shot. It just isn't! Even though all these MJ fans tell their sons in High School varsity to pass. They are all hypocrites!
I would argue that the only thing players are consistently better at today is shooting the ball. 80s and 90s ballers were better at everything else, especially physical defense, which doesn't exist in today's league. Best defender used to mean something, but now nobody cares who the dpoy is.
exactly. look at what you just said then y’all criticize for “ring chasing”. JJ literally played for 14 years in the league and Gil was the number 1 option on his team til he was injured. RU-vid is a shithole because of comments like this
Even without the gun incident, one call tell that Gil's elevator doesn't go all the way to the top floor. Another fallacy he mentioned was that LeBron is primarily a passer. He's primarily a scorer. Not an elite scorer, but he scores at a high level. He's an above average passer, below average rebounder for his size (compared to Larry Bird, who averaged 10 rebounds while playing with Kevin McHale and Robert Parish during a more physical era). Meanwhile, Jordan's passing has become underrated over time, and it's not a stretch to place him as one of the best passers/rebounders at his position (he still has more total offensive rebounds than LeBron does)
I’ved seen LeBron’s whole career never seen MJ and through research and taking the times to watch Full games regular season and playoffs i can honestly say MJ is better. LeBron is awesome but he is not MJ i have him second all time. Till this day a full hall of fame career separates them as you mentioned 2 chips, 2 fmvps, 1 reg season mvp, 1 dpoy, 9 scoring titles, 3 steals titles and 4 all defensive first team selections thats crazy to me. Mr arenas says MJ doesn’t lead in any categories lol but MJ is the all time leader in ppg in the regular season and playoffs. Has the highest ppg average in a playoff series and finals series. MJ is tied for most all first defensive team selections at 9 with Kobe, Garnett and Gary payton should i keep going. LeBron fans have weak arguments its all about excuses and moving the goal post
Crazy thing is he was got scoring titles while getting defensive player of the year and 1st team defensive pretty much every year. LeBron never did that even once
And as for the 80's & 90's not being able to play in today's league...we'll see how many of the players today break the top 50 in overall league scoring. Jordan was just different...a step or 3 above the rest. We were blessed to watch him.
Lebron fans are really making themselves look foolish. All the facts can be right there in everyone's faces and they would still say Lebron is the best and that just makes no sense
This man ruined his own career with his infinite wisdom. The man acts like the rules weren't changed to make scoring easy. Lebron passing Kareem does speak to his longevity, but it also speaks to all the many avenues that allow players today have much longer careers.
@@gggyy7104 you say that like Elgin Baylor wouldn’t be ranked higher if he had won a championship or two. Either way, he, KD, and Bron all average about the same amount. But my comment isn’t necessarily about who is or isn’t the best scorer, it’s about how we generally rank players. There’s a reason no one cares about the player that averages the most total points in the playoffs or regular season each year and why the leading scorer title is based on PPG. Not that cumulative stats don’t matter, just that they don’t generally matter as much as averages.
@@SmittyWerbenJagermannJensenI’m talking about specifically scoring. If PPG mattered as much as you say, Elgin would be considered at the least a top 5 scorer of all time. But the thing is Lebron fans don’t just say cumulative stats are the only thing that matters. They say both matter. Lebron is top 5 in PPG and top 1 in total points. It’s not like he averages 19 PPG. That’s whats so impressive.
@@gggyy7104 I said they both mattered, just per game averages generally matter more. But talking specifically scoring, Jordan is number 1 in PPG and number 4 in total points so what’s you’re scoring argument exactly? Because if being a top player in both categories is you’re criteria, he would still be the best scorer. Again, the scoring title each season does not go to the player with the most total point, it goes to the player with the highest PPG average. They’re not always the same player. Either way, no one really discusses cumulative stats when comparing players. Almost every comparison brings up per game stats.
@@gggyy7104 I didn’t say it wasn’t impressive either or that Lebron wasn’t a great scorer, I think he is. The total stats argument is only just now becoming a thing. No one considered Kareem the best scorer, he would rarely be brought up when talking top scorers. He was considered the prime example of longevity. 20 years of consistent production. That’s impressive on its own. Stockton has the most total assists, but if I asked you who the best passer of all time was you’d say Magic without hesitation.
Using Arenas' argument: So why wasn't Kareem being considered the ultimate GOAT, while having the career points record for 40 years before Lebron broke it? So does Lebron having the record for most career turnovers negate many of his accomplishments, since Arenas is talking about career records?
I’m sure you have to be tired of proving these idiots like Gilbert and other LeBron fans wrong constantly. But it sure is entertaining when you do it!! Love your videos!
It's pretty shallow thinking. Jordan is not number one in any of the categories because accumulating career points was never his goal. LeBron's whole mission has always been to accumulate career stats. If that was MJ's goal, he would never have retired in his prime. So we can't compare them that way.
How many 3 peats does Braun have? How many scoring titles? How many MVP’s & Finals MVP’s does Braun have? Last but not least, how many 1st defensive teams and DPOY’s does Braun have? All of these Jordan rules hands down. Jordan may always be the GOAT. I’ve not seen nor heard anything to change my mind. There is no I in team so comparing players without the context of their supporting cast is not really fair. How many teams have 3 finals championships in a row? It’s a small list but the Bulls did it not once but twice.
Gilbert’s argument is akin to westbrooks triple double seasons that was so unbelievable yet led to nothing. Lebron broke the scoring record in a time where he is about to miss the playoffs for a 3rd year in a row and may just be saved by the play in
One of the things jordan has that lebron doesn’t is (even if it sounds stupid) he made the people believe he could win anything and fly across the basketball court, lebron doesn’t have the same effect on people
He also built his own mansion. Won 6 rings by himself. Impregnanted himself with 6 kids. Built his own car. Went 72 and 10 going 1 on 5 for 82 games plus 18 playoff games. Scottie Pippen and Rodman 2 of the all-time best defenders in the history of the NBA and Paxon and Toni Kukoc and their "three headed monster" (the Bulls 3 Centers, Thats 18 fouls on Shaq! and with Rodman that's 24 fouls on Shaq! What the fuck! Or any other low post player of the era!) and Phil Jackson the All-time best Coach in the HIstory of the NBA who installed the Best offense ever the traingle, just sat on the bench and watched porno all day!
@@catalyst4518 Wait... You're telling me Jordan needed a team to win championships? I thought he could do it all alone, 1 vs 5 like every other player who won the finals. 🤷🏾♂️🤔 Geez I wonder who the *MVP* was in those games. Please do tell.
Remember, Kareem went to college and put up that record. LeBron got a huge advantage by going to the league straight out of high school. LeBron is definitely a great player, but he still hasn’t passed many great players of the past in terms of true greatness.
6 or 7 of the top 10 most efficient offensive players of all-time are currently active in the NBA. Jordan's era obviously wasn't trash, but on paper, nothing beats the current era
Well Jordan has better per game avg stats. Jordan has better per season avg stats. Jordan has better advanced analytical stats. - LeBron has only longevity stats.. plus longevity of LA losing
@@KaineTremaine Jordan wins in per game stats, advanced metrics, accolades (mvps, scoring titles, dpoy, etc.), and winning (6 championships in 15 total years vs 4 in 20). Lebron really only has longevity.
@CFL Yea I remember when LeBron fans used to bring up stats. They'd say like "most 25 point w 9 assists and 8 rebound games" or something else stupid. - Now that the legitimate career stats are coming to light.. LeBron fanatics are running from advanced stats like roaches.. Spew a couple of longevity stats, then sprinting away
Lebron has played with 7 great scorers on his teams. Wade, Bosh, Love, Irving, Davis, Westbrook, Anthony. In every case he took more shots than these players. Pass first? Look at Magic playing with Worth, Abdul Jabar, Wilkes and Mcadoo. The teams were potent offensively, while he took less shots then the guys jobs it was to score. That's pass first.
He also leads the regular season ppg statistics and has the most scoring titles. To be fair, if finals mvp's would've been awarded in the 60's Bill Russell could have more than MJ.
yeah, 10 scoring titles, 6 finals MVP’s, 9x 1st team-all defense, TWO 3-PEATS, lead the league in scoring 7 consecutive years & has the highest PPG all-time
Even winning the title this season won't move the needle on this debate, Jordan wasn't just the best player in the world he was utterly dominant in a way no one has seen since 1998.
Using this criteria makes Pete Rose the greatest baseball player of all time since he passed Tyler Cobb in hit. He holds the major league records for games (3,562), at bats (14,053), hits (4,256), and singles (3,215). On top of that, LeBron scored a lot of points from behind the 3 point line, it wasn't implemented until 10 years after Jabbar was drafted.
I started to stop watching after hearing the word flowers, then I realized Lebron was figuratively sitting on Gilbert's shoulders. Guess where Gilbert's head is?
Also if Kevon Loney, Steven Adams, and Mason Plumlee can play today...Bill Laimbeer could certainly play today. Laimbeer was a stretch 5 before we knew what it was. He shot 37% from 3 while getting 9 boards in 91. That is a perfect fit today. People focus on his thug behavior, but dude had skill.
The narrative is so bad and misleading. Gilbert does know that MJ SACRIFICED personal stats to build a dynasty. Jordan’s accomplishments are far better than mere personal stats. Personal stats are the consolation prize of a loser
I appreciate these breakdowns, I think we've all come to a point to where we realize that just because somebody played the game even if they played it at a high level does not mean that they know what the hell they're talkin about when it comes to the media circuit, for years you'd see players criticize the analysts because" they never played the game" , only for some of these former players to have some of the absolute most nonsensical shit takes in the media
Jordan played 15 years and Magic played 13 years. So, neither would get very high in any GOAT debate if total stats get Gilbert's weight. It also means that playing as many years as possible would carry the day.
I don't know what's going on, why so many of todays or early 2000 era players are just talking crap about past players.. what the hell did these guys do them, what did MJ or Bird or Kareem say to these dudes to make them disrespect them.
Lebron James beat jordan and Kobe's record in points without the need to make the number of shots they made .. (1240 fewer shots, and Lebron had already passed jordan) .. means that lebron has more effectiveness to score. ..for those who do not understand, that means that for every hundred shots, lebron was more successful than jordan and Kobe ... and also beating them in assists, !! And not only that, also having more offensive and defensive rebounds .. Lebron James is simply an unprecedented player, and his records keep taking off more and more ... his versatility, speed and strength allow him to play all positions- point guard, shooting guard, forward, forward pivot ... things that neither jordan Neither Kobe, Malone, Magic, nor anyone else could ever do.
That Paul Pierce/Curry and Hayes/KD comparison is all you need to know bout total stats. Smh lol you can tell Uncut Hoops is irritated with Gilberts takes 😆
LeBron scored a couple thousand three pointers. Kareem scored a couple. They didn't have a 3-point line the first 10 years of Kareem's career. It is so absurd to compare the two.
10 scoring titles says it all, Jordan could of easily taking kareem record basically anybody in this era of basketball since players be averageing damn near 30 per game
10:03 I don't even think he's 2nd of all time. Kareem, Bird, Kobe, those guys would have never lost with Dwane Wade and Chris Bosh. Remember Kobe getting chips with Pao Gasol as his sidekick? Could you even FATHOM Lebron winning with nothing more? See, Lebron is great, but he doesn't hold a candle next to the players who didn't need to forge their own teams with superstar buddies to win.
Tired of hearing about Jordan not having as many rings as Bill Russell. There were only 9 teams in the league and all the talent went to Boston when Russell played.
To paraphrase two ridiculous takes: "Curry has had to deal with more physicality than Bird." - JJ Reddick "Winning doesn't matter that much when it comes to the GOAT debate." -Gilbert Arenas These two should join forces on a podcast just for the LOLS!
