Game of Thrones WHAT IF: The Mountain KILLS Loras Tyrell 

Mini Thin Well clearly the white walkers wouldn't rise up, all they want is Hot Pie's bread.

Hot Pie would lose all passion for baking and will obviously win the iron throne. Long live King Hot Pie, King of the Andals and the first men, Lord of the seven kingdoms, Protector of the Realm.

Hot pie wouldn't be working at the inn that arya goes to and he wouldn't tell her that Jon took back winter fell and so she would've head to kings landing and killed Cersei so Jamie would've taken over and marched north with Jon and Dany to fight the white walkers

YO the universe would be changed. Fo' sho.

Starlord Would he even be called Hot Pie?

Loras helps it, but I'm not sure he's really the sole reason for Renly's push. Well I don't think it's that easy since Robb wanted an independent North and Stannis wasn't willing to give him that. The only way someone other than Joff remains king IMO is if it's Renly. Renly was willing to work with Robb whereas Stannis wasn't.

Could that change the battle of Blackwater Bay as well ? If we assume Renly decided to be king again and if Loras is killed by the Mountain, the Tyrells won't choose to help the Lannisters in this . They might choose Stannis but Renly was willing to work with Robb so they might follow his idea and help Robb instead

TheBattProductions Actually you said in the video that it was Robert who accused him. If a member of the royal family participates in a trial by combat, the champion has to be a member of the King's Guard. Sandor was not a member of the King's Guard back then. That said, it would probably have been the Tyrells who would be the accusers though, but it does end up being a different scenario since they would have chosen a knight from the Reach.

Actually I think this is what happens: the Tyrells lost their heir and would never side with the Lannister’s while the Mountain was alive. Without Loras the final moves for him to be king go poof. So Renly will either side with Ned to take Cersei and the kids or run. If alive Renly takes Stannis offer to be heir(considered Selyse track record it’s a good bet), Stannis marries Renly to Margery to cement the alliance. Leading potentially to...Renlys 1st son being king, 2nd son being lord of storms end and 3rd being lord of Highgarden. Robb is not declared king of the North as Stannis being the one option does not lead to the debate...

Mathias Eriksson actually that’s the book. In the show it’s not as strict, the Mountain was Cersei’s champ

Rhaella would have gone over to Essos with Dany and Viserys, or she wouldn’t have made it out and the soldiers would get to her, and nothing would change

Holy shit thats a good one

Viserys would not be able to marry dany away.

​@@videodudelerno then there is some good chance viserys is better in this seinario

Sure if it all worked out like that. I agree there'd be no trial though.

however it states in the rules of jousting that sometimes the battle continued on foot until injury or even death...

see here "Tourney rules varied from place to place and country to country. Some tourneys involved no holds barred jousting with very few rules; others permitted only direct blows to the shield to unseat the opponent. Most individual jousts ended when one knight was unseated, although at some tourneys, the battle continued on the ground with sword combat until one knight yielded or was killed"

Small changes can lead to bigger changes.

But you are supposed not to fight with swords so I don't really know..

And I agree with that, but you never know. In the U.S. justice system for example, we could see someone execution-style shoot someone in the head on camera, but there'd still be a trial. I'm just leaving the scenario open for conversation :)

Ahhhhhhh excellence!

yes

+TheBattProductions What if yoren takes arya to the winterfil

In the books versions Gendry never left the brotherhood he continued working for it until lady stoneheart.

What if Joffrey weren't as evil as he was

Sindiswa Seruto hed be dead, and when he is resurrected he would be a wight

Probably

Sindiswa Seruto Then jon snow will not be allied with the help of the wildlings to liberates the north from the bolton.

Also he already made video about that.

Sindiswa Seruto he would be executed or die in battle executed if he survives and takes over castle black because stannis would storm the castle and kill every wildling if Mance wouldn’t surrender but we all know Mance so there is an option that he flees to the Nightfort with Ygritte and goes back to south of the wall and leaves all this shit or he stays and gets captured and gets executed for treachery/desertion or he dies in battle when they capture castle black or defending it and everyone in hardhome dies and becomes wights while the the night king doesnt get a dragon because Danny wouldn’t go North of the wall if he died and even if he left with Ygritte no one would believe him about white walkers because he wouldn’t have any titles or anything at all he would be a wildling/Freeman when in the iriginal he was King In The North so either way the Night king wont destroy the wall and everybody is safe until he uses his greenseer power to understand that there is a hidden passage in the Nightfort so everyone dies Jon snow is a legend Even though his cousin killed me (Arya) In the end Jon and Ygritte will live happy until the death separate them ( more likely the White Walkers) or the Law

Ommstar Official then the Karstarks would kill him and get revenge but that would be the scenario if both of the stark girls would gave left kings landing and Cat would know about it then Littlefinger shouldn’t lie to Cat like he has done but that is really unlikely

Quite a ride from Dorne. Pretty sure trial would be over and done by the time the news hit Sunspear

Excellent one sir! I sort of did this one "What If: Bran" but it's a little different. I'll write it down!

+TheBattProductions what if Jamie and Cercie don't see bran in the window?

He did that already

Michael Curlin that’s impossible because he wouldn’t reach there in time

Michael Curlin and Tywin didn’t know that Joffrey was about to execute Ned

See I didn't think a lot changed personally. I believed Renly would've had his alliance anyway because of Mace's need for Margaery to be a Queen. I know Loras pushed it, but not sure he was the deciding factor. I don't think it would've changed the Sparrow story line since it was more Margaery I think Cersei wanted out than Loras.

TheBattProductions this guy is totally right, Small changes can lead to bigger changes.

Don't forget, the only reason Stannis lost at King's Landing was through Loras riding away with tens of thousands of Renly's forces after his assassination. Without that, Stannis would have /all/ of highgarden for the assault on King's Landing, and it would've gotten trashed.

I don't think renly would of tried to become king it took convincing from loras while getting some action for him to be like "yea ok I'll do it" he would of sided with stanis

@@TheBattProductions Renly would be a mess after Loras death… not only the Tyrell’s wouldn’t have as much control on him but neither would himself, frankly I can see him getting out of kings landing much sooner to grieve and completely forget about all the political stuff. The Tyrell themselves if we are going by the show, so just margy and Lori, probably wouldn’t take such a big risk as crowning Renly while going through a succession crisis and their goal of Queen Margaery would completely shift to Heir of Highgarden Margaery and that means most probably a Reach husband, even a Tyrell one as they have a tone of cousins w the last name. If we are going by the book the path is more uncertain but still i don’t see either party in the mood for it. Most importantly I just can’t see the Tyrell’s being any forme of amicable with the Lannister, even if Tywin doesn’t protect the mountain, the Tyrell hold a grudge to the Martell for Oberyn crippling Willas they are not going to be any nicer to anyone connected to the murder of one of their children , there’s no way they are going to accept an alliance with them, so the Lannister would be caput much sooner.

jarw28 Then the entire series would have never started.

Everything would have been better

jarw28 he did that one

Henry Harrison he'd probably be the favorite

That is indeed a popular one!

TheBattProductions But does it take away that the mother died? if she didnt die Tyrion wouldnt spend all his time reading and become less of the smartass like we know him but just another Jaime... and if the mother died he would probebly hated by Cersei and Tywin bit just a little bit less because he isnt a disgrace for the familly because he isnt a dwarf...

TheBattProductions sorry for bad english

TheBattProductions That would be bad for the tyrion's characters it be kinda removing batman's background story of the death of his parents that is his huge motive to become batman. Just like cersei's past of the witch's prophcy removing that would be like removing the reason why cersei being like a bitch and hungery for power.

Ned doesnt fight with Ice in combat though it's strictly ceremonial. But yes Ned would probably fight him himself if he passes the sentence but he doesnt, theres no sentence for him to pass since the Mountain is the one who calls for trial.

That's not totally true, Kevin. He has used Ice in combat (Greyjoy's Rebellion).

Did he? Weird, I've read GRRM said he did not www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Month/2015/06/ skip to question 2.

No, I ment that Ned brought Ice with him in the first place in case if he had to sentence someone to death as Hand in KL, that`s what I ment, I didn`t said that Ned would fight tne mountain XD, although keeping up with the conversation, I heard conflicting reports of Ned using Ice in battle, I know George said in one time that he used Ice in the Tower of Joy in his duel with Arthur Dayne, but I don`t recall hearing of him using it to fight in other ocasions, I know that it has been used by Starks of the past to fight, if you research, using a greatsword to fight in battle isn`t that tricky, it requires strength and training, but it can be done, look at the landsknecht mercenaries in the Late XVth and up to the XVI century, they where fanous for using greatswords such as Zweihanders and Montantes against pike formations, and they where one of the most elite fighters at the time, so that prooves that a greatsword can be used and was used efectively in battle, although I don`t know for certain that Ned would be able to

Ah, but in this situation Gregor called for trial by combat so he wouldn't really get to do that, but if he didnt then yes Id assume Ice would be used for beheading Gregor by Ned. Oh, Ice definitely would be usable in combat but as George brought up I don't think Ned himself can use it, though if he learned how to use a greatsword I think he could get the trick of it down.

Cadence Thompson I've also wondered that.

Love it!

TheBattProductions danaerys hasn't done much in westerns so I think this scenario should be saved until after season 7

Then the series would suck!

soyon manlai Ha true

books from Windblown that’s really hard because brandon would be a character because Roberts rebellion starts after Neds brother and father gets killed/burned by the Mad King Aerys II Then the father wouldn’t have died either so the war wouldn’t begin or it would but more secretly because they had to find lyanna and her child Jon snow = Aegon Targaryen would become a bastard because u cannot marry twice in the lights of the seven so Aegon would probably have the last name Sand unless The Mad King gives him his fathers name Targaryen well then the planned rebellion will begin and Lyanna will be on the Targaryen side and Robert will be even furious if he knew that Lyanna didn’t choose him and had sex with Rhaegar freely without the rape scenario so he would want to kill Lyanna too and he would succeed if not the starks join The targaryens so Robert will be crushed its like 50/50 because Robert still has the Lannister support and if they switch teams then That fat Baratheon is fucked ( he wasn’t fat at that time ) if Robert wins then we need another warden of the north and Robert would have tracked all the Targaryen children because he would be even more obsessed so Jon, Danny, Viserys and the Half Martell and Galf Targaryen children would be 100% dead and i think they would suffer a lot so i would really hope that Targaryens would win in that scenario because if only Robert dies then Stannis could pledge his loyalty to the Mad King or Rhaegal depends if the mad king dies under war ( Poisoned or Sick or murdered ) and Stannis would get the StormsEnd and everyone would live happily after until the Night King comes and jon will be raised as Azora Ahai because maybe Jon will meet A red priestess and she’ll tell him that he is special so his father will train him to become the Last Hero and Daenarys gets a childhood and ohh The Lannisters die and the Casterly Rock will be given to a house maybe to the Grayjoys so they wont start a rebellion And maybe Danny gets hold of the dragon eggs and tries to the same thing and hatch em all so Drogon will be named Rhaegal and he will have the biggest dragon and Danny gets Rhaegal from the original story because it was beautiful and Danny is beautiful too and the nome of the dragon will be Nymeria and Viserion will continue have the name and Viserys gets it and because Viserys is stupid he dies while riding the dragon so Aegon=Jon gets Viserion and they gather a large army people from Essos too after a time Danny and Aegon= Jon gets all romantic and gets married then the real threat will come and The prince who was promised will come with his sword and he shall stab Danny because she is Like that Nissa Nissa character and she dies and the sword catches on fire and makes The lightbringer. Father and son will be there while the whole stark family will defend the north too and now its a whole new family members because this is Brandons children Ned maybe Marries one of the Freys because he doesn’t die because they couldn’t find where Lyanna was and Bengin becomes a ranger The New religion will be all over Westeros The Lord of light will be the new god there Pycelle dies because he’s corrupted and The Long Night starts but we win because we had so many years to practice and be ready for the battle and well Aegon and Rhaegar will defend the entire realm with the armies of course and Aegon will kill the Night King and Rhaegar dies under the battle because the Night King throws one of thouse icy spears and he falls of the dragon and Drogon=Rhaegal dies and the realm will be built new and Aegon the 3rd will sit on the Iron Throne because he knows nothing jon snow that was an epic story come on

Why thank you my friend! :) I try to hit every facet I can...sometimes I miss stuff but I mostly hit, I think!

I was thinking the same thing

So do I , tho he would not stand a chance.

Haha. He would not at that point in his life. He's sort of a fool, but only sort of. He knows better than to fight someone like the Mountain. Back in his day, however...woulda torn that guy apart!

Cersei would tell him that he is too old and too fat, he wouldn't stand chance. Then, he would definetely fight the Mountain. And because he died even faster, Ned would only find the truth when he is Joffrey's Hand. Or the Lannisters would send him home, and the beutifully peaceful reign of Joffrey I could start with Tywin as the Hand.

The flower and the wolf RULES the kingdoms! Excellent thought

Thanks! I'm waiting for this!

DreadScythe 95 Then how will Dany take over when they are united and have a stable economy. She has foriegn army but not enough to take on a united westeros.

soyon manlai she has always the dragons sadly.

DreadScythe 95​​ Then dragons and foriegn army will not be enough to take on a united westeros, for her to conquering westeros is to have a divided and war torned westeros and weak economy would be easy target for Dany to retake the iron throne. In Aegon the conquests of westeros is so successful because westeros was a divided into 7 kings, each one feuding lands and minor glory.

Thank you Garlan! :)

TheBattProductions yes sir

Lukas S If she did that which means no purple wedding, no marriage, no death of joffery, no Arya going to braavos.

She was prepped to be married to Lannister. If you watch the episode where Joffrey gets his ASS KICKED by 7 year old arya. salsa was against her sister doing ANYTHING against that little asshat. She wouldn't have went with the hound. She wanted to be royalty. Arya didnt.

Robb would win Even jon said it himself that Robb was always a better fighter then him

Jason Bornot Robb Stark Vs Arya Stark Deathmatch

If your saying if they didnt they were brothers, jon snow wins. The only reason I say this is during "red wedding" he watched his wife get stabbed to death. In the stomach. He did nothing. Just stood there. How many times has jon just "given up"? The traitor scene cant be counted because he had no time to react. He was facing ramsay Bolton's entire army and gripped his sword. Jon snow has 100x the heart and the drive to win.

Thanks PMB!

no problem man you're the best. you're my favourite youtuber

Everyone dies Because no one knows of the white walkers

Ommstar Official short answer: everyone is screwed against the white walkers

Ommstar Official that would never happen especially since he’s azor ahai and the prince of ice and fire so it wouldn’t work

Tormund Giantsbane tell that to Arya who killed me

If Jon Never Resurrected: 1. Deanerys Didn't loose her Dragon & Win King's Landing without being mad. 2. Night king wasn't able to destroy the wall..... White walkers never cross the wall. 3 Might be Arya Rebel against Ramsey Bolton and defeat him and retain Winterfell

Not all westeros trials are by combat. The mountain would just be killed or tried in court.

Gridlock I was only asking for the first part. I agree he wouldn't survive either way. Just going off if the Mountain had demanded trial by combat

Would he allow him? Sure. I just don't know if Oberyn would get there in time is all or if Robert would think to call him up. But like Gridlock said, I think more than likely it'd just be straight execution and they'd kill him.

TheBattProductions Then death of the mountains would have a huge impact on the storyline, small things grows and become big things overtime.

I was thinking the same thing. I think Oberyn would have heard that the Mountain was on trial and would have definitely sent a raven to Robert to ask to be the crown's champion.

She would be married to Ramsay instead of Sansa :D

She probably would have died at the red wedding?

That's exactly what I was thinking only I think the Tyrells would stay out of the war since they really only joined to make Margeary queen and without Renely wanting to be king there's no other single king

Robb was single before he married Jeyne/Talysa near Riverrun in season 2 ;) Margeary was already married to Renly at that time.

Haha. Well I guess I should've mentioned it on the side just so everyone heard my position, but I actually am not sure Loras convinced him totally. I think he whispered in his ear for sure, but I think it was more Mace wanting Margaery to be Queen (giving Tyrell support) that really did it more than Loras.

Of course it does sir. That means the whole Hound plot is gone. Seeing Brienne is gone. Arya could've died on her own. Could've not learned important life lessons from the Hound that helped harden her to reality.

That's an AWESOME one. First shot of the series, and super important. Love it, Griffin

Griffin No direwolfs it means no warging no 3 eyed raven no flashback no bran.

soyon manlai you also have no nymeria to defend arya from Joffrey no ghost finding the the dead guy who turned into a wight no summer to save bran from the assassin no greywind helping robb in the war of the five kings no dead shaggydog to prove the identity of Rickon stark and many more changes from there being no direwolves

Karlijn S If ser Arthur lived then he would not accept that rheagar lost everything and robert as king he would demand ned to accept jon as his king. He loves rheagar like a brother, they were best friend, he would spread the truth incite another rebellion.

soyon wandering he wanted to protect Jon, he would stay quiet about Jon being royalty and would probably stay close by winterfell looking over young Jon (maybe disguise himself as a master of arms with Ned's help) and help train him Or if Ned died and Dayne lived he would probably raise Jon as his own back at starfall or leave for essos

the series would be a lot better

Excellent one! Stannis tore it up and got very little credit for it.

The Young Wolf Then Ned would support renly claim to the iron throne and ned still be alive fighting for renly's crown to the throne.