How would Game of Thrones have shaped up if Tywin Lannister isn't killed by Tyrion? How crazy would it get? FIND OUT NOW! Follow me on Twitter @theSAPeacock & Instagram @thebattproductions
Kind of, yeah. Haha. He's probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite character of all time and he deserves it, frankly. Sure he's a jerk to Tyrion, but otherwise he's just pure BOSS.
TheBattProductions That was Tywin's only weakness and what got him killed, his unreasonable hate for Tyrion. If Tywin and Tyrion worked together they would be unstoppable.
The Boltons would be fucked as well. Tywin would definitely march North and destroy House Bolton once the news of Ramsay and Sansa's wedding reached the capital. Roose and Ramsay would die, Sansa would probably die as well and if Jon still tried to march on Winterfell he would be killed as well. Let's not forget about these people: Dany=FUCKED! Varys=Probably fucked. Euron=FUCKED! Sand Snakes=FUCKED..HARD! The only guy who could probably outsmart Tywin is Littlefinger but his plans would be fucked as well since Tywin>>>> Everyone else.
Sorry for the late response. "roose bolton would never dare to do that if tywin was alive .. like never" Show Roose, maybe. Books Roose, oh trust me, he would.
He wouldn't have lost that fight! But that's a great question. He probably would've been captured by someone. I mean, what would The Hound have done in Westeros if he didn't have a ransom to get him around or friends (which he only had Arya). He was kind of lucky he was brought in to the Quiet Isle (or whatever its equivalent is on the show).
TheBattProductions That's my man :DD. Can't wait for the notification. I enjoy your "What if" series very much because it adds a dynamic to a series which I already love. I sound like a dick but I prefer smaller youtubers because of their ability to read comments faster than they come up.
tywin wouldnt have attacked the high sparrow. He not only had his daughter as hostage but killing him could cause a nother civil war. Tywin would rather slaughter thousands of common people and septons around westeros and only stop if he gets cersei back which the high sparrow would agree to
Maybe he wouldn't have brought his army to the steps, but the High Sparrow & his sparrows would've been killed regardless. Tywin isn't above what you just said, but it's so much easier just to stop the Faith.
Tywin would be turning in his grave if he knew what a colossal mess cersei has made of everything she has singlehandedly managed to piss everyone off. Qyburn is literally the only ally she has left well him and the mountain.
Possibly. From what we're told, Tywin loved his wife dearly. In the book there's a saying of something along the lines of 'Tywin ruled the seven kingdoms, but Lady Joanna ruled Tywin'. If she had lived, I think Tywin and Tyrion's relationship would have been much different. Tyrion is under the impression that his father's ill will towards him is on account of him being a dwarf. I think it's more that Tywin feels cheated by the gods for taking away his wife and being left with a dwarf son.
Greg G I agree with you. There is also a line saying Tywin never smiled except at Joanna. I wonder if Joanna being alive would have affected Jamie and Cersei's relationship?
+Mikayla Barton Joanna had found out about Jaime and Cersei's relationship before she died but didn't tell anyone and gave birth to Tyrion and died before she could really put a stop to it.
I think it would've definitely changed Tywin. I'm still pretty on board with the reason why Tywin hated Tyrion is because he's a Targaryen, BUT the Joanna thing is much less-tin foil. Hah!
Oh he is definitely a horrible person to carryout slaughter at Red wedding... But the series went lackluster devoid of a strong villan... I Can only dream Tywin survial and denarius and Tyrion plotting to fight with Tywin Lannister instead of Cerci... That would definitely be a great show... Tyrion showing his father how wrong he was about him by beating him in his own game instead of just killing him off...
Qais Alfar stannis takes the throne at the battle at the black water. If Robb had drawn tywin west to defend his home he wouldn't have been able to save the day at the black water and stannis would have won.
KI Jamy taking it wasn't necessarily the plan. The plan was to draw Tywin into open battle where Robb could trap him. If it came to a siege, the Lannisters probably only kept a skeleton garrison there, since Jaime took 30,000 men to fight Robb in the riverlands, while Tywin took the other 30,000 men to link up with Loras Tyrell to repulse Stannis at the Battle of the Blackwater. And keep in mind that Jaime's army took most of the casualties in the War of the Five Kings, since Tywin's force never met Robb's main army. Thus, after severe decisive battles, it is safe to say that Jaime's forces would have retreated to either Harrenhall or to Kings Landing, and would consist of 20,000 men or fewer.
@@SpadaccinoLuciano And Tywin wanted to defeat Robb on the field. Hunkering down in Casterly Rock and forcing a seige would make Lannister look weak, although they could easily hold it.
I wish you could do a If Tywin Doesn’t Die showing how you think he would have acted after Daenerys reached Westeros and when the White Walkers appeared
Couple of questions: 1. Do you think Myrcella would've still died? Oberyn dying at the trial was politically disastrous - something Tywin would've seen and attempted to soothe things over with Dorne. Cersei kind of steamrolled over them when she sent Jamie to retrieve Myrcella and forced their hand. If Tywin had simply let Myrcella remain in Dorne, the Sand-Snakes wouldn't be in a hurry to get revenge and the whole Dornish rebellion could've been avoided. 2. Do you think Tywin would've figured Littlefinger out? Tywin never actually believed that Tyrion killed Joffrey - that was just a convenient scapegoat for him. With Tyrion gone, Tywin might've decided to focus on who was actually responsible. The only thing he'd know would be that whoever killed Joffrey also spirited Sansa away. So when LF shows up feeding him the story of Roose Bolton marrying Sansa to Ramsay and him being generous enough to defeat them in Lannister name, I don't think Tywin would fall for that like Cersei did. At the very least, he'd put someone he trusted at the head of that army and send them to capture Winterfell.
It would depend on whether or not Ellaria Sand was smart enough to wait until Tywin was dead before she would declare war on the Lannisters. That would literally the difference and only that.
Hmm, I think HS was coaching/mentoring Tommen in the right direction. I saw a joke that Tywin only killed people so rains of castamere gets played haha. Great video as always dude 😎
Overall the High Sparrow wanted what's best for the citizens of Kings Landing. He would have in taught those same principles to Tommen. A king with good morals is what's best for Westeros
Ser Hunts Reviews I have to refer back to Tywin on this one when he was talking to Tommen; can't just rule as a Theocracy (like the Sparrow wanted Tommen to do) and expect to be a great king. The Sparrow was manipulating a young boy into doing his/the Gods' will. That's my opinion, though.
More so manipulating than Tywin? IMO HS was a better person than Cersei or Tywin. He wanted justice to be served, other than that all he wanted was a better kingdom. Similar to brother Ray, only difference is the way HS went about things.
Ser Hunts Reviews Oh he was totally manipulating as well (Tywin), but I think Tywin wasn't asking for a radical approach to ruling. Tywin's track record as Hand (when people say he was the one who really ran the kingdoms) was great despite having a mad man as king. I'd have to imagine he'd do the same for his grandson. I do think HS was a better person, but I'm not sure that's why Tommen needed as a king. Cersei is a trainwreck all over, but Tywin exudes wisdom and just #winning (tribute to Charlie Sheen there). I think that's a huge difference, though. HS goes about things totally differently than basically everyone. It's great that he wants justice to be served, but he can't play the political game that is required. Having a guy that only believes in one thing or one way as your king's primary advisor/manipulator isn't a wise thing for the kingdom, IMO.
Not really. He killed so many people in the Westernland Rebellions to show that betrayal is not taken kindly. He has shown that he is a good person and that he just wants to protect his families legacy and live in peace pretty much. We can see that from the deleted fishing scene where Tywin fishes for his supper.
I don't think Tywin is as bad as what people make out. He did what he had to do in order to be one of the most powerful houses in the 7 Kingdoms: He had no choice but to obliterate house Tarbeck and Reyne because they were taking advantage of his family. When he was Hand of the King during Aerys reign the whole kingdom was at peace. It was him running everything. He was loyal to Aerys and put up with a lot of shit, especially Jamie being inducted into the Kingsguard. The sacking of Kings Landing, he was intelligent enough to chose the winning side. If Ned did that during GOT he would of survived. His brother Kevan said part of him died when his wife Joanna died giving birth to Tyrion. That's why he never smiles. Red Wedding, obviously not honourable but as he said he saved thousands of lives through a long war. Not his fault that Cersei and Jamie shag each other but he still defended them. Tywins biggest downfall was not treating Tyrion right. He resents him for Joanna' s death but Tyrion was the most intelligent of his children and maybe more intelligent than him. If he treated Tyrion like a son things would have worked out very different. Overall I don't think Tywin was a bad person he was just put in shitty positions he had to get out off.
Bent the knee to Dany immediately in exchange for commanding her army...he was the only guy to believe the reports of white walkers and how dangerous they were, he also (in Tywin’s voice) wouldn’t have sent 50 thousand Dothraki charging into certain doom.
What if Lyanna survived Jon's birth? Would Ned hide still hide the baby and Lyanna marry Robert? What if Robert died instead of Rhaegar and Rhaegar won?
I think Tywin would have affected the story a bit more. I think he would have done something about the Martells. Especially about Jamie going to Dorne. Also some Stuff up in the North might have been different because Tywin was the one who controlled the alliance with the Boltens. And I'm sure he would've done so much more to find more alliances and maybe fight Stannis. And I think he might have seen Deany as a bigger thread because he is intelligent like Tyrion and would've checked the stories about her at least. And I think Cersei would've done something stupid because of her marriage. Maybe killing Loras or something equally stupid.
Probably would've been imprisoned by the faith for kinslaying. Cersei would have freed him by having the High Sparrow and all the Septons and Septas killed. Margaery would have been married to Joffrey for a short while before Olenna came up with another plan. After his death, Margaery would either marry Tommen and become queen again or Olenna would have been caught and killed for treason and Margaery "imprisoned" like Sansa was. In the time Joffrey was imprisoned, Sansa would marry Loras, like she originally would, and live in Highgarden. Loras would cheat on her all the time with men. Sansa may or may not know about this. Daenerys would've been killed by the rebelling citizens of Meereen without Tyrion's ruling tactics. Oberyn would be alive and so would Myrcella. The show wouldn't have been as goddamn awesome without Tyrion.
You're forgetting a major thing. Baelish would think twice before openly betraying Tywin and would not have summoned the knights of the Vale or even married Sansa of to Ramsay, which in other words means that the Boltons still rule Winterfell. The battle of the Bastards would have ended in a victory for Ramsay, Jon would have been slain, the white walker threat would be ignored until it's too late.
faramirtheranger Jon probably wouldn't have even tried to reclaim the north, since it was Sansa who convinced him to rally the bannermen against the Boltons. She wouldn't have reunited with him, and he would probably still be at castle black.
faramirtheranger which would have been good. With Jon dead The dragons never go north of the wall to be killed which means the night king is stuck there. Jon literally caused the long night.
A few ideas... What if Joffery had been killed at the end of season one (specifically by Sansa when Joff made her look at her father's head) What if Stannis has won the Battle of the Blackwater? What if Jon Snow accepted Stannis' offer of becoming Jon Stark? What if The Mountain lost to the Red Viper and Tyrion was declared innocent during his trial?
I'm really curious how Tywin would have reacted when faced with the threat of the White Walkers. Do you think he would have made an alliance with Daenerys (in season 7)?
Stannis would be skrewed, the "north remembers" people would be skrewed, Aegon would be skrewed, the Dornish would be skrewed, Dany would be facing a near-united Westeros so she'd be skrewed, Euron would have to work a little harder so he might be skrewed. Varys isn't skrewed. He could always pull a Kevan Lannister in a pinch.
How would Dany be screwed? She has 3 large dragons, something that Tywin and even the most united Westeros don't have. Her ancestor Aegon the Conqueror brought Westeros to its knees thanks to his dragons alone.
BrunoFrancaA We're talking about the show, not the books. Her dragons are large enough to destroy any enemy with ease. See what they did to the Slavers' army in Meereen.
Her job would be harder at least. In both the books and the show, Westeros is unstable and a ripe fruit for the plucking. A united Westeros under Tywin, however, would pit Frey forces from the Riverlands, Lanister armsmen from the Westerlands, possibly Vale forces, and the massive Tyrel army against Dany's Unsulied, Dothraki, and dragons. This is her worse case scenario. In the show, though, she has both Tyrel and Dornish support, so conquering Westeros should be pretty easy.
Tywin was such an interesting character in the sense that you really enjoy watching Tyrion getting his revenge by killing him in such a way but at the same time you kinda wish he was still around to stop the shitstorm Cersei brought down on her family and the kingdom!
I don't think she's awful. I think her POV chapters are really fun to read because there's no telling what she'll do :D I think she's really fascinating. Her paranoia is mainly due to being a woman in a time when women had no power. She's found a small bit of power as queen and she's gonna cling to it gdi XD
I guess it's interesting seeing what she comes up with next but the thing is, we are now sure that she's gonna screw up every freaking time. It takes away the fun of the villain!
TheOtherSideOfLife That's fair. Honestly as a kid, I always loved playing the bad guy because there's no limit to what you can do. Good guys have to preserve life and not destroy buildings and stuff but a bad guy can just blow everything up and do whatever the fuck they want XD
> Tywin is angrily writing letters and stamping wax > Dany enters with her dragon > * *stamps wax loudly* * > "What" > Dany is thrown off > "Im here for the throne" > "The throne is downstairs. Sit in it then. Wont do you any good. Its merely a chair." > "I took it. With fire and blood" > * *Tywin licks his fingers like a snake and flips a letter* * > "And what good did that do you? You are feared, not respected. Your handmaiden dead. Your armies are currently raping the people you wanted to save. Your hand and my shame of a son has betrayed you, and here you are, asking for power." > "Dracarys" > * *nothing* * > * *Tywin looks up finally* * > "Your dragon was tired. He needed a nap. I sent him under the keep with some milk of the poppy. You will marry my son Jaime. We will join houses. Period. Now leave."
Tywin is awesome on the show because of Charles Dance. He just emboided the character so well, and captured the essence of Tywin like no one else could. Hes def more behind the scenes in the book and kind of just looms large as the man pulling all the strings. Truly, Tywin is the king Westeros really needed.
The fear from the prophesy drives Cerci to do these things. "You will be Queen... going to be replaced by a younger more beautiful Queen." it was also said her children would die, and when Joffry and Myrcella died she had basically given up on Tommen. Well, she didnt want to be the reason for his death, therfor stopping him for going to the sept, but she knew he would die sooner or later. And by letting Tommen die, she becomes The Queen because she was Queen regent. I doubt she thought on how to keep the power. She didnt count on the Targaryen return, nor Tyrell turning to the Martell. And, the look in Jamie's eyes at the end...she had used the same solution the Mad King was going to use for his enemies, thats why Jamie became the Kingslayer in the first place... Has Cerci made an enemy of Jamie too? Has the reign of the Mad Queen begun?
Would’ve been more interesting if you went more long term. I think Tywin would’ve also wiped out the Starks. He would’ve sent the Lannister army north and/or prevented Little Finger from helping Sansa. So overall would’ve won the Battle of the Bastards and executed Sansa and Jon. Then would’ve found and killed Bran too.
TylerA9981 no, he wouldn't leave his post at the nights watch. Maybe help plan and hold castle black as a backup plan but he wouldn't go fight against Ramsay and wouldn't go to winterfell after they took it to be praised as king in the north. Sansa would get the knights of the vale to fight for her right away instead of them coming at the end of the battle
Honestly, the realm would've prospered with Tywin. A strong southern alliance between Lannister, Baratheon, Tyrell and Frey that can outnumber any other region if needed. Now, if it comes to the north it's a bit more. Stannis would've failed one way or another. Littlefinger wouldn't dare risk his head by leading the Knights of the Vale north to fight the Boltons - who are loyal to Lannister-Baratheon and are in no position of claiming the north's independence. Jon's army would've been destroyed with him, Davos and Tormund getting killed as a result. Ramsay may kill Roose, Walda and their baby anyway at some point. But he knows he's only the legitimate ruler of the north if he has a child with Sansa so that might happen. This kid could be married to a future Lannister child as well. The Vale would simply remain loyal to the throne, I don't see Littlefinger pulling out any twist since his only ace was stupidly given away to House Bolton. The Iron Islands remain destitute. Even with Euron as king and a thousand ships, there is no possible alliance. With Tywin still in power, another rebellion would mean the extinction of the Ironborn. Yara and Theon may bring a hundred ships to Daenerys Targaryen, but without the backing of the Reach and Dorne, they are practically useless. Which brings me to Dorne and we have two options here. Either Tywin appeals on Doran Martell's desire for peace and negotiates the exile of Ellaria Sand and the Snakes, or he orders them killed right away after receiving the threat. Myrcella would've stayed alive and marry the young Martell boy. Peace for everyone, until the White Walkers arrive, but it wouldn't take long for Tywin to figure out what kills them. And compared to Jon and Dany, there would've been a unified realm with an actual strategy to fight them off.
Tywin is so misunderstood he clearly didn't just hate tyrion for being dwarf, he gave him a very fair chance and tyrion did bring shae with him, same with cerci he says that he doesn't trust her because she is not as smart as she thinks she is, so much for hate and prejudice against dwarfs and women. Also westros saw best time as tywin was the hand of the king. He would have done the same if he was allowed to but alas.
Tywin Lannister was truly the greatest man in The Game of Thrones. Nobody was as accomplished, ruthless, shrewd, intelligent, and yet noble as Tywin. Tywin should have stepped out of the shadows a long time before he died and took his rightful place as The King of Westeros instead of handing the crown to Robert Baratheon.
WHAT IF: Stannis had got the Stormlands from robert instead of Renly? surely the war of 5 kings would change drastically (no reason is given for renly getting stormlands anywhere!)
He would also send Tyrion to the wall and force Jaime to go to Casterly Rock. Cersei would be away from Kings Landing, so she wouldnt do these dumb things.
He wasn't really a bad guy, but he did so stuff that bad guys do (that's the best way I can describe it). Tywin is arguably my favorite character ever!
Tywin would've slaghtered highsparrow on their bed .and stopped deanery targareyen before she cross the sea , remeber when he has sent the royal pardon to ser joras mormont despite he was spared before just to weak danny
theres also one more major detail you didn't mention; in the books Tywin was apparently looking into the White Walkers, not necessarily believing they were real, but acknowledging that if they are, then they're a threat. after seeing proof when jon brought back the walker, tywin wouldn't have hesitated to send his army north to fight them, whereas cersei promised that and lied. this would've given a much stronger force against the night king, possibly meaning that jorah wouldn't have been killed and therefore he would've been there to council daenerys and possibly not push her over the edge and becoming the mad queen
Try this one on for size. Somehow, in the middle of the War of Five Kings, Tywin Lannister learns of Jon Snow's Targaryen lineage, notably being the last surviving son of Rhaegar Targaryen with Lyanna Stark. Part of me thinks he'd turn to his idiot grandson Joffrey, inwardly cursing the psychopathic little twit for causing the whole damn war. Then Tywin turns to his own bitchy and insane daughter Cersei, thinking to himself, "She's still young enough to breed and bear children, she could still be of further use to this family. Even though he's not Rhaegar, this Jon "Snow" is still Rhaegar's son and last known direct heir, if that's goo enough for me that should be good enough for my daughter. With him we could quash both his cousin Robb Stark's and Stannis Baratheon's rebellions, bring them both back into the fold and even neutralize Daenarys Targaryen's claim to the Iron Throne in one fell swoop." Of course, that's just one outcome.
I also think he'd give a poisoned gift to the Frey's. Not something blatant, but I think Tywin would see the Frey family as idiots with too much power. I don't know what, but I think Walder Frey would accident cut himself shaving and bleed to death, and his successor would be third in line after the other two each died in tragic gardening accidents.
Cersei was not all that incompetent. The Tyrells were NOT the Lannisters' friends. They poisoned Joffrey in order to allow them to work on the more susceptible Tommen, and Cersei recognized the danger there. They had a long-term plan at work to crowd the Lannisters out of the government and take over and it was working. Tywin was not going to reverse that. To the extent that there is any coherence or continuity in the show, he simply had no power in the relationship, needing the Tyrells' money & armies too much to resist. In the books, where the Lannisters are not broke, and the military-political stuff makes a lot more sense, we can see throughout book 3, how Tywin has to give in to the Tyrells on nearly everything. They need to resort to subterfuge to thwart the Tyrells' plan to marry Sansa to their heir, because Tywin all but admits he can't afford to piss them off. He admits to Jaime that he needs to get Mace's approval to marry Cersei to Oberyn, and he has to take it and grin when the Tyrells refuse to marry Cersei to Willas for insulting reasons. When Tyrion is convicted, Tywin has to allow a Tyrell to take his place on the Small Council. They give massive rewards to the Tyrells and their vassals from the Reach, and there is little mention of similar rewards for the Lannisters' western vassals. It's not hard to see why, in subsequent books, the Lannisters need the Tyrells. The Tyrell forces in books 4 & 5 are besieging Storm's End and Dragonstone, occupying Maidenpool and campaigning against Brightwater Keep, the home of Stannis' in-laws. Meanwhile, the Lannisters are only involved with besieging Riverrun, and to do that, they need the help of the Freys and a bunch of reluctant riverlords. Tywin's armies are severely depleted after his initial invasion of the Riverlands, his losses against Robb Stark, his defeat by Edmure Tully, and whatever casualties he took on the Blackwater. Furthermore, his tactics and methods have made everyone suspicious of, and resentful toward, the Lannisters. Jaime can't get anyone to believe his good intentions at Riverrun, because of his fathers' long history of treachery & brutality. The Lannisters are forced to rely on the hapless Freys, the Boltons who are indifferent to them, and the Tyrells who are actively plotting against them. None of this changes if Tywin is not murdered by Tyrion. This state of affairs is largely Tywin's doing. Best case scenario, the Tyrells use him as a stalking horse, letting him commit atrocities and massacres to wear down the opposition and then, at the point when the blowback starts, they oust him and promise a kinder, gentler reign, with Mace as Hand guiding his son-in-law Good King Tommen, while blaming all the ills of the realm on Tywin, Tyrion & Cersei.
