Game of Thrones: Why Omitting the Tysha Confession Ruins Tyrion's Character Arc 

What do you mean static character? He grew a beard after season 4.

D&D kinda forgot about Tysha.

I think Peter Dinklage being fairly handsome partly ruins his character. People aren't immediately revolted by Tyrion in the show but in the books he is disgusting.

Actually Tyrion very clearly DOES realize in the book that Shae doesn't really love him. He mentions it several times. He just willingly goes in denial.

It also screws up Jaime’s arc, because the news of Cersei’s infidelity caused Jaime to question his relationship with her, and the path he’s taken in life.

If Tyrion was hateful and bitter, and he joined Dany, he might have contributed to her eventually becoming the Mad Queen.

This confession changes both characters arcs. Jamie finally starts to open his eyes to what Cerci is, and how she controls him, and Others, with sex. I can't wait for Winds of Winter. I want the Real story. Not the hbo, watered down story.

I really wish there was an audiobook of game of thrones spoken by the characters in the TV series.

"He kills Shae, confronts his father on the shitter, and murders him." Best description of that scene I've heard

Damn, after watching the series I really felt that they wasted the opportunity. Peter Dinklage is one hell of an actor and I feel that we were really robbed of seeing his performance portraying the vengeful, hateful, and spiteful Tyrion. That would have saved entire seasons and it would have been a true redemption of his arc especially in the final season where he learned that vengeance is empty.

The Tysha confession was one of the most jawdropping and heartbreaking reveals in the book. It would've been perfect drama material and it would've taken them less than 2 minutes. They're truly fools for leaving it out

Yeah. In the books, Tyrion outright told Jaime that he killed Joffrey and Cersei was sleeping with everyone including the fool. That was the depth of his rage. Tyrion had always been hated by everyone because his status as a dwarf made him abominable. And even in his own family, the only person that showed him any love was his brother. The only other person could have been his mother, but he killed her by being born. It's a tragic story. The truth about Tysha caused him to lose his brother and thus everything.

Nice. Now do Jon. "She's muh queen!"

this aged REALLY well

Have to love how they completely stripped Tyrion of all moral complexity and whitewashed him into another generic good guy in the final season. The same can be said of Arya, who was literally part of a death worshiping cult and took great pleasure in revenge, suddenly getting cold feet at the end. After season 7, arguably season 6, there are no more complex characters. They are either MUAHAHAA EVIL or good guys suddenly afraid of bloodshed.

I could never understand why they left Jamie's confession about Tysha out of the HBO story. it was just so easy to include and added so much depth to Tyrion.

GRRM wanted at least 10 seasons.. Any issues about GoT ending is squarely on the writers. No one else.

The two biggest mistakes made by the writers were probably: 1 - No Tysha confession (ruined both Tyrion and Jaime), 2 - Having Littlefinger give away Sansa to Ramsay.

I think everything can be explained by saying the writers wanted to keep Tyrion likable. They also excised Dany's faults for the same reason. If their faults and the crimes they committed had been kept in tact, the final season still would have been a whiplash in characterization, but at least it would have been less so.

I thought you were gonna touch more upon Jaime. If leaving out the Tysha reveal ruins Tyrion’s character arc, it absolutely DESTROYS Jaime’s Character arc. One of my favourite scenes from the books is when Jaime recieves Cercei’s letter pleading for his help against the High Sparrow, and he simply tears it apart and burns it in the fireplace, finally cutting himself off of Cerceis influence. That scene never could have happened without the Tysha reveal, and the series completely botched Jaime’s arc by having him return to save Cercei from Daenerys and dying together with her.

Tyrion going over the edge would’ve made the Dany storyline even more powerful. That scene where Dany gives him the Hand pin and he says “I BELIEVE in YOU” would have been so much stronger if we’d seen him become a bad person, only to be pulled back by Dany, only to watch Dany spiral out of control.

In retrospect, this was one of the best videos describing why Tyrion became such a nothing characters over the last few seasons.

In the book Tyrion, in anger, says to Jaime that Cersei has been sleeping with many other men. In consequence this damages Jaime's arc as well because he never learns in the show and by the end of A Feast For Crows he's abandoned her, finally realising she's nothing but a whore. But in the show he keeps coming back and forth to Cersei, even when she blows up the sept. It's a double sided coin omitting both confessions.

aka WHY a character does something is just as important as WHAT a character does

Game of Thrones is a prime example of wasted potential and talent. Imagine if we actually got to see these great book characters be portrayed by these great actors.

I didn’t read the books so I always thought that Tyrion's reaction against his father a bit extreme, specially considering that he probably suffered a lot before and did nothing But this whole thing with Tysha changes so much. It makes Tywin’s death much heavier and emotional, and Jaime’s relationship with Tyrion becomes much more interesting without sacrificing the bromance, the big difference now is that, instead of having just Jaime learning how to forgive Tyrion, we have them both learning to forgive each other and themselves for the things they did. And their eventual reconciliation would be so much more touching and meaningful. Truly a shame all this potential for storytelling was thrown out the window

Real talk, morally-gray/grey characters are far more interesting than purely good or purely bad characters.

Shae's betrayal ties neatly with the quote from Bronn: "Look, I like ya. I just like myself more"

God damn this makes the exchange between Tyrion and his father at Tyrion's trial hit so much harder. "I'm guilty of being a dwarf." "You are not on trial for being a dwarf." "I've been on trial for that My. Entire. Life!"

“Tyrion is noticeably shookith” Best quote of 2019

"He does demand the trial by combat, but" Holy crap, you could've given me some warning!

"...one of the reasons they did this is because they didn't want to kill the bromance between Tyrion and Jamie." Damn that's actually prophetic after seeing the shitshow that was the final season. Hit the nail right one the head

This guy figured this out back in 2018

Mostly agree, though I particularly loathed - in general - Tyrion caring about Cersei again. Only Tommen and Myrcella deserve his care - and Jaime could earn it back. But the point of Cersei is that she can't be redeemed; and what care Tyrion has for his family, should make Cersei's actions even more unforgiveable to Tyrion. Any redemption would involve him coming to recognize that Tommen, Myrcella and Jaime were victims of Tywin and Cersei's manipulations, just like he himself was. But, show writers made a mess of that, just a they made Jaime's arc a complete worthless mess.

This was the moment game of thrones became fan fiction. The first time I really questioned the writers. They kind if held it together and we forgot, but it could never be great again.

I think people don't realize that Dave and Dan didn't just "get lazy" They were hacks right from the start. They did write some really good material that wasn't in the books such as the Tywin and Arya moments and the convo between Robert and Cersei but the truth is they're just shitty writers who occasionally get lucky

The books seem to be aiming for Barriston Selmy to be the voice of reason and Tyrion to be the voice of rage. Omitting Tysha in the show allowed Tyrion to take Selmys spot...totally agree it ruins Tyrion’s arc

Dont forget how this changed Jaime's arc. "And moonboy for all I know".

After omitting the Tysha confession Tyrion was dumbed down to the point where he just became that character that constantly made dick jokes. He didn't have one successful plan and was a terrible adviser for Dany, but at least if they had put in the Tysha confession we'd understand more WHY he was such a terrible adviser because it would have turned him into an angry and broken drunk.But I guess then it would be more difficult to sell "I drink and I know things" shirts lmfao.

Tyrion didn't yell at Jamie to not charge toward the dragon because he is in a middle of a battlefield. EVERYONE is literally yelling and there are loud noises everywhere.

The omission of the Tysha confession was the first time GoT disappointed me. I was all set and looking forward to the drama and horror of Tyrion's realisation, the true shattering of the Lannisters, and then... nothing. They parted ways as buddies and all was well between Jaime and Cersei. That episode also gave us the lackluster version of the Children, though they did improve in the next season. Still, the end of season 4 feels like the point where the series went downhill, slowly but surely. I do get the writers, though. It's hard to write for a depressed and frankly unlikable character, and Tyrion was a major moneymaker. I get they wanted to keep his winning personality intact. It's just such a waste of potential, and it did show in how static he became, as you say. He didn't change, so he just petered out. You absolutely called season 8, spot on.

The only thing I have with this video is that idea that Tyrion is going to mis-assess Dany when they meet in the books. Tyrion's brains have not gone anywhere, despite his going to the dark side. I think he's going to see her come back to Meereen at the head of a Dothraki army with a dragon she barely controls, but no longer gives a damn about collateral damage from Drogon running wild, and Tyrion's going to understand her and her situation perfectly AND HE'S NOT GOING TO CARE. He's going to say "Yes, this is the perfect weapon to turn against Westeros and my family!" He's going to WANT the Mad Queen, because he wants another Aerys to cause Jaime & Cersei pain and destroy them. He might not have enough poison for all of the city and the court of the Iron Throne, but Dany is going to have enough dragon fire to wipe them all out. George Martin said the most interesting stories, the ones he wants to tell are, quoting Faulkner, about the human heart at war with itself. That's what the characters' stories are about. Jon fighting with his duty and the people he cares about. Jon's heritage is not about who the "rightful" king really is (after all, Aerys was the rightful king and he was the worst), it's about what it meant for NED. Ned had to tarnish all kinds of relationships with a lie to protect his nephew from the fate of Rhaegar's other children, to keep Robert from sending assassins like he did for Dany & her unborn child, and this informs his actions that lead to his downfall, namely, that he cannot allow children to be murdered for politics. Cat has to struggle between her love for her kids and her role defined by society. The girls & Bran have to struggle with their identities and survival, Jaime has to deal with the reality of the kind of person he is, and what his horrible family is really like and what they've done. And Dany has to deal with her own worst instincts, combined with her idealism. This is not a problem for Jon or Tyrion to deal with, it is for DANY to overcome. Jaime had to hit rock bottom, he tried to murder a child for his lover and sitting in chains and having people treat him like a worthless piece of crap, and having a person who believes in knighthood the way he did as a boy treat him like a total failure & betrayal of his boyhood ideals, this made his reconsider himself and his relationships with his family and start trying to be better. To start reaching out to people in whom he saw his more idealistic younger self, like Brienne & Loras. Theon had to hit rock bottom. He had to get from thinking he was hot shit & entitled to everything because he was his father's only son & heir, from thinking that he was special. He learned this by completely failing in his efforts to both prove himself to his father, and claim a place in Winterfell by taking it on his own, and then having his identity stripped from him and ground down into nothing, before compassion for someone else help him reclaim his name and act to save her. Dany is going to have to hit her rock bottom in order to figure out who she is and how to be better. I think she's going to carelessly throw dragonfire around in Kings Landing (with Tyrion's encouragement) & touch off all the wildfire bombs left behind by her father, the Mad King. It will be Dany "completing" the job her father began and make her question the price of "fire and blood". It will horrify Tyrion & make him realize he did not want a mass slaughter after all. It will destroy Jaime whose pride allowed him to shrug off people's judgment of his murder of the Mad King, because now that murder will be all for nothing, the city burned and innocents died of his wildfire. And it will be because Jaime got all butthurt at people judging him, so he decided "Screw you all, I'm NOT going to explain myself or justify my actions, what right do YOU have to judge ME?" Except if he HAD explained, then people would have known to dig up the wildfire! The city would not have suffered as much as it did from Dany's dragon fire, if Jaime had just told someone, rather than sulk that they called him "Kingslayer" without knowing why. THAT is a plot point that serves three characters' story, and their development and their internal struggles. And it gives motivation for Dany to try to make things right, by saving the world from the armies of Winter and the dead. It gives motivation for Jaime to go north, alone if necessary, to fight for the living, because that's all he can do. It gives motivation for Tyrion to contribute to the final battle, instead of sitting back and laughing while the dead overrun the kingdom that has treated him so shabbily. The "Mad Queen" issue should be Dany's issue and Dany's problem to solve, not Jon's and not Tyrion's or Varys' or Sansa's.

Tyrion being "triggered" by Tywin calling Shae a whore never made sense to me given that he killed her minutes ago. yes he says he is sorry but come on ... the sense of betrayal was too raw and fresh to have him cry like that. it doesn't make sense. on the trial, he wasn't heartbroken and soft. I was heartbroken and enraged. a rage that should not have allowed for Tywin insult of Shae to affect him in any significant way. funny how the writers go out of their way to keep the portrayal of the characters they like positive. Dany was obviously a favorite of them as well.

No Tywin knew Tyrion didn’t kill Joff but the trial gave him leverage over Jamie to leave the Kingsguard and take his spot as his true heir to Casterly Rock and thus he would have to marry and have true born children. It’s all about furthering the family line and the Lannister legacy. He’s always obsessed with legacy

This is huge. Following Tyrion wanting to destroy his family after as a continuation of his rage.. yes.. would be perfect.

Well it’s okay, season 8 ruined most major character’s character development.

It was definitely for the relationship with jaime. What's crazy is that every point after the confession would have been better. Seeing had badly Tyrion was hurt but the confession would have had an impact on Jaime. Jaime had always been slightly blind to the cruelness of his father because it was never directed at him. It also would have added more depth to Tyrion freeing Jaime after he was caught by Danny's forces. The show leaning into fan favorite relationships is what helped ruin this show.

"Lord Tywin Lannister, did not, in the end, shit gold." -ASOS Tyrion XI

I never cared much for Tyrion but his "poison you all" speech was dope. I would have enjoyed watching an evil Tyrion.

Very informative. But clearly too subtle for D&D

It always bothered me how in the show Shae thought Tyrion meant that whole vile break up speech. He tried to get her out of King's Landing before but she couldn't see that it was just another attempt at that. Thank you for acknowledging that.

In the books, it never seemed like Shae loved Tyrion at all-nor was she betraying him by not loving him. He paid her for the girlfriend experience. Also, she would have been killed by Cersei if she hadn’t testified. Shae in the show loved Tyrion, though.

Wow. I was totally unaware of that Tysha storyline. That would have been so much better for the long-term story in the show if they had kept it in. It kind of bums me out to know what else we missed out on. Great video!

You forgot that Tywin wanted him to take the Black also so he’d have more control over the Night’s Watch where Jon Snow was suddenly rising to power. He felt having Tyrion there would give the Lannister’s a measure of control over the Wall.

The Dumbledore “however” really got me😂 combining two of my favorite fandoms🥰

In the books, Tyrion may be one of the catalysts for mad queen Daenerys. It makes sense

"He finds POST-BONED Shae in his father's bed." 😂@9:06

This is an excellent critique, and basically shows the small signs that D&D were doomed to ultimately fail. It all became fan-fiction type writing after season 5

Not only does this ruin Tyrion’s arc, but it also stifles Jaime’s arc. In pretty much every subsequent Jaime chapter from AFFC and ADWD, Jaime is haunted by Tyrion’s words of how Cersei is “fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and Moon Boy for all I know”. This puts a lot of stress on Jaime and Cersei’s relationship, making him see her sister more and more as a cruel, manipulative, foolish bitch that probably never truly cared about him. Along with his journey through the Riverlands with Brienne, Tyrion revealing Cersei’s infidelity is one of the main driving forces pushing Jaime into a more heroic and moral character. It’s honestly a shame that a lot of the character’s arc following season 4 are almost nonexistent. That is why I implore everyone to read the books if you have not done so. If you wanna experience a more satisfying story than the show or if you just wanna have a good read, I can’t recommend A Song of Ice and Fire enough.

That willy wonka "stop. don't" caught me off guard

I've never gotten over the fact that Tywin didn't shit gold....

I always hated Shae's betrayal, because it just seemed like her character was made arbitrarily dumb. She seemed like a smart character who knew what she was getting into when she came with Tyrion to King's Landing, knew the kind of person Tyrion's father was and that they were virtually surrounded by enemies...and yet...as soon as Tyrion starts warning her about the danger, her IQ just drops 50 points. Finding out that her character in the book was just manipulating him, honestly would've made me feel better about the character had the show portrayed her as such.

I just rewatched GoT and I thought it made no sense for Tyrion to go back and kill his father. Now it makes sooooo much more sense. Didn’t realize that D&Ds negligence went back so many seasons

I would of loved to of seen Dinklage portraying Tyrions darker side he has later on in the books but I guess they would rather see him as an idiot then villainous. The writer's once again proving why they failed the show.

THIS ANSWERS SO MUCH. I was always SO confused by Shea's sudden 360, it made so little sense from any point of view other than 'LOLZ money and betrayal duH'. Thank you for clearing this up.

I agree, Tyrion murdering his father was not well justified in the TV series, and it is well justified in the book by this confession. To learn that you were wronged far worse than you thought can serve as a justification for such a sudden change in attitude.

I specifically remember the foreshadowing for Shae and was confused when it was treated as her actually loving him. i thought it was obvious she wanted a better life situation and saw it as a mutual transaction

These little but meaningful things in the books being replaced or completely ignored and discarded from the show was the first red alert to David and Dan's surface understanding of the whole story. Too bad we didn't see it sooner.

Also I feel like the lack of Tyrion's response to Jamie's confession in the show makes Jamie's character lack direction and drive as well. In the books he's been given ample reason to fall out of love and even stop trusting Cersei all together, whereas in the show... well we've seen where that goes.

Characters were ruined. Tyrion was the least of them If only we knew

Varys is CEO of knowing what hes doing when he takes Tyrion by Tywins bed chamber

First sign that the showrunners didn't know what they were doing.

im watching this after the last episode is aired, and all the predictions this guy makes for the last season are wrong. he gave the writers too much credit

I always felt sorry for Tyrion and how he was treated. The Tysha Confession would have significantly changed the interaction between Jaime and Tyrion going forward and I don't think we would have gotten the scenes we did if it had been kept in the show. I agree that without it we do lose something in the Character of Tyrion.

18:30 " ..fans are going to cry bullshit..." Oh, if you only knew how prophetic your words would become.

15:03 In Theon's defense, he didn't know at the time that she was his sister Asha/Yara.

Wish what happened in the books happened in the show. Would have made for a more interesting season 7/8 in the show.

This probably helps explain why Tyrion seemed less smart and useful in later seasons. It all goes to show some key elements missed by D&D and I'm not even sure they understand it.

I don't understand why the writers thought that we wouldn't still love Tyrion if he changed into a darker character. Tywin and Cersei are my favorite characters BECAUSE they're dark and complex! Complex characters are what made the show great!

GRRM has referred to Tyrion as the villain

I'm impressed by this theory, but was sold on it completely because (1) you did it before season 8 and (2) you accurately predicted Tyrion's betrayal of Dany (and the fans' reaction to that). Well done!

'POST-BONED' Shay?! Brilliant, I'm using that.

"They didn't want their fan favorite character to do morally questionable things..." Meanwhile, Danny burns 1,000,000 people alive for no reason, while we get this painfully sterilized, neutered version of Tyrion who just stops being a character after season 5. I've never read the books, but man, as much as I like T.V. Tyrion (at least he first 4 seasons of him), I think I like the sounds of book Tyrion more. The idea of this highly morally ambiguous character, who sometimes is extremely merciful and emotionally sensitive, and other times is ruthless and vindictive, is very intriguing to me. It's rare a single series follows a single character through the turbulence of being a good guy, a bad guy, and then a redeemed bad guy, usually they just jump in somewhere in the middle. The idea of Tyrion starting off as a (mostly) good guy, who is emotionally abused to the breaking point where he goes full villain, building up Danny as the "savior" of the world, not really caring if she's good or bad as long as she's different from what he has already known, only to turn on her in a moment of clarity when he realizes what a monster she really is, and what a horrible person he was to have ever encouraged or turned a blind eye to her cruelty... I mean, eat your fucking heart out, Darth Vader, that would be one of the most epic character arcs in the history of fiction, no exaggeration.

I never understood why they didn't include the true Tysha story. After hearing the truth he slaps Jaime and kills Tywin after finding Shae in his bed.

Wow I just realized this was uploaded way before season 8 came out!!!!

Great work, instead of butthurt rant you gave a real constructive criticism and great analysis, I really enjoyed in the vid :)

This omission infuriated me when I watched. It was the signal everything was going downhill.

“This omission doesn’t change the story” “OH IT FUCKING DOES” I literally yell in the middle of the night

basically they removed all of tyrion’s complexities, most likely bc he’s a fan fave and they’d rather he‘d be seen as a hero as opposed to the morally grey, even a straight up awful person he is in the books. in the books, both tyrion AND dany are going dark and it’s likely he will be more of an enabler of her morally questionable and reprehensible actions than the good angel on her shoulder holding her back like he’s portrayed in the show. i bet some of those dark dany things will even be his idea.

You’re a great storyteller and a smart fuckin dude. Sky is the limit for you my friend 🤘

One of the things that never made sense to me is why Tyrion never reveals what he knows about Cerci and Jamie. Ok what actually makes no sense is why he never blackmails or trys to blackmail them.

Game of thrones...a great misstep in cinema history. Could have been a crowning jewel in the fantasy genre.

I too have always felt that leaving out Jamie’s confession about Tysha screwed with Tyrion’s arc, since he is far darker in the books.

Sick editing dude. The Dumbledore bit and the #1 Dad haha

Excellent perspective. Great analysis. Thanks for the video.

Omg, this is heart wrenching. I’m glad I didn’t know this information at the time I watched these episodes.

"Tyrion is noticably shooketh"

I feel like the reason they removed the tysha reveal was because she is just a story in tyrions past that isn't mentioned much in the show. Why would she be? Yet in the books, where we see tyrions thoughts, she is constantly on his mind. It's a big part of his character they couldn't adapt properly because you can't see into his mind like in the books. I feel like Shae was intended to be kinda like tysha in the show to account for that absence so she loves him for who he is. I assumed they were going to have Shae love him without the jealous part, so when she betrays him, it comes out of left field. Tywin then has Shae killed, and has tyrion told just after he is sentenced as a final knife twist. Then when Jaime saves him, Jaime explains tywin gave her a choice - betray tyrion or be executed, so she betrays him, and he has her killed anyway. Then when tyrion confronts tywin, tywin calls her a whore etc etc crossbow to the gut. I think that would have been better than what we got - it allows for vengeful tyrion but still removes tyshas subplot and potentially tyrion falling out with Jaime but if it was framed just right maybe you could say Jaime knew what was going on the whole time and didn't stop it? I dunno, the Shae aspect still has issues.

The editing in this video was done really well. The jump cuts with memes were great

WOW. You did an amazing job. The changes you suggested would have absolutely been changes for the better. Great video