getting oil stones like the Norton crystalon and India stones and soft and hard Arkansas stones to cut almost as efficiently as diamond stones by keeping them dressed with silicon carbide powder and plate glass. caltoncutlery.com
I was lucky enough to find a set of Smiths 6x2 soft, hard and black for $17. I use 400 grit diamond to lap my soft and 1000 grit for my hard and surgical black. The hard is translucent but is not dense enough to be a real translucent. The black is as black as midnight and gives a wonderful finish for my kitchen knifes and woodworking tools.
Great video Joe! Diamond plates do have their place and I own a few and use them when I have to but the bulk of my sharpening is on Arks, India, Crystolons, and other waterstones. With all these stones they have to be maintained and water stones are the easiest with a couple swipes with a diamond plate but the others do take a little more time and investment but , like you said, even with the most punishing use an India stone will last a lifetime with Arks not too far behind. I do see the occasional badly dished Crystolon at the flea markets but they last pretty long too. A freshly conditioned soft Arkansas stone gives a great edge. Nice to see you back in the shop.
Thanks will! i have a bunch of Waterstones, but don't use them much outside of razors. could be that I am a bit heavy handed sometimes and that may be more suited to oilstones rather than the softer Waterstones for knives...… :}
Congrats on the quitting smoking Joe (and the weight loss!)...I'm glad it's working out for you. Still, always good to see you in the shop and some vids of what you're working on.
@@TyMalhoneson ok on the custom. the best way to get that started is to send me an email through my website contact form and let me know what you would like :}
Good to see a common sense video on sharpening knives, I like the fact that you like edges that are toothy. There's nothing worse than a knife that's sharpened to a mirror polish when you have to do a lot of cutting. I was a slaughterman for 33 years and all we used was the Norton fine Silicon Carbide Stone to sharpen our knives and a steel to keep it going. We tried super fine stones, but the edges would not last more than half and hour skinning sheep, but was Ok on cattle. Try using all your oilstones with a mixture of Simple Green and dishwashing liquid in water, your stones hardly ever load up and they cut better, but you can still use oil on them for very fine work. Oil on a stone works exactly like the oil in your engine, it stops friction, which is the very thing that you want the stone for, and is why it is better at finishing your edges. Any oil stone I buy, I boil in the above mixture to remove all oil from the stone, which we did to any new stone in the abattoirs (Norton or Bear do make non oil SC stones as well), where oilstones load very quickly with even a minute bit of fat on your knife. The dishwashing liquid floats the steel particles just like the oil does. Also, you can use a worn diamond plate just the same on an oilstone as a Japanese water stone, it keeps the stone flat and the particles it releases aid in sharpening, and saves the plate from being thrown out so early. I wouldn't do that on a Hard or Translucent Arkansas stone, as I like their surface burnished for really fine edges. By using the above methods you really increase the range of your stones, from fast cutting with the mixture and particles from the diamond Nagura=(plate) to really fine work with oil. The mixture also keeps the stone a lot cleaner, I have seen some pretty black greasy stones around, and have bought quite a few, but boiling them in the mixture gets most of it out. Try and get your hands on a good vintage Washita stone, the Norton Lily White and Number 1, as well as a browny red coloured one (plenty on ebay), that's almost translucent, they are all way better than the soft Arkansas.Woodworkers use to, and still do love these stones. I have to finish by saying that the fine India or Aluminium Oxide stone is one of my favorite stones, if Norton did a combination Fine India and fine or medium Silicon Carbide stone, I reckon it would be a good seller. I have a couple that were made by Pike which are much finer than the ones of today, almost as fine as a Translucent Arkansas. Thanks.
so Norton does make a combination fine India and medium crystalon, and it is in my shopping cart at sharpeningsupplies.com right now..... I have a couple of older fine indias that came in the old pike boxes, that are pretty fine also, one has a sort of mottled look with white specs throughout that is much finer than my more recent fine indias. but I do have my eyes out for a Washita :} ive played with simple green and didn't care for it. i still use dawn and water occasionally to sharpen with, but wash my stones in it after using with mineral oil before I store them, and it seems to do a nice job. i worked with a professional butcher last year for half a day on a friend place. im a hobbiest, and do 6-10 animals a year, deer, antlope, sheep, pigs, and beef. but that guy was so smooth and efficeient it was amazing to watch. in talking with him, he said he also uses the fine crystalon, but his steel was very smooth, and he would touch up with very high angle passes on it.
@@joecalton1449 I have stopped buying stones (i have over 30, a silly stage I was going through) that Combination stone would be on the next stone to buy list, although the SC side would be gone way before the AO side. I havent seen the India stone you speak of, I have one that is a pale orangey-red and another that is more red in colour. I don't know why the butcher guy would be using high angle passes on the steel, as that only makes more work when re-setting the bevel when it gets blunt and also is not the best practice when steeling, unless your bevel is at the same angle. I was the guy that got the job of teaching new workers how to stone and steel a knife, and that was the main problem for people who's knives got blunt quick, but if it was working for him, who cares. I often drool over the stones in Sharpeningsupplies, but the way the Aussie dollar is, there's no way I would buy stuff from the US, even though their prices are very good. Do you know much about their Arkansas water stones? Thanks
@@markcahoon2534 I thought the same about his steeling, but it seemed to be working well for him. I have only tried nortons regular Waterstones, and they are ok, not my favorites, but they will do what they are supposed to.
@@joecalton1449 I could explain why using a higher angle than the bevel usually is ruiness (if that's a word) to the edge, but it may take a bit of explaining, it's much easier with pictures. Suffice to say, steels aren't meant to create bevels, well diamond, some ceramics and any steel that can remove metal can. If you steel as close as possible to the original bevel, your bevel lasts a really long time and be much sharper, but raise your angle and you may as well have set the bevel to that angle in the first place. I really cant see the reason for doing it though, although we all get into bad practices sometimes, I know I have, and probably still do.
@@markcahoon2534 Putting bevel to that angle in the first place is not the same as putting microbevel. Microbevel makes your cutting edge more durable and long lasting. Putting microbevel is like putting on your knife convex bevel but not that smooth, instead with micro edges. Ofcourse convex would be better for cutting but more time consuming than microbevel.
Joe, I really admire your style of communication, you are a great teacher. I am finishing up University and hardly any of my teachers are as effective as you. thanks so much for these videos. You have a lot to teach and you really do a great job with these.
if you can take a dull knife, and work on it a bit, and it is sharper when you are done than when you started, then you are a good sharpener. the only difference after that is practice, and everyone, myself included, could use more practice :}
I quit smoking 35 years ago but that was not fast enough. I hope you made it because I puke every morning as a reaction to the shit I now have to inhale. Lungs were built for clean air ...
I don't like DMT's the diamonds just fall out I've been using an Atoma it seems to last longer and you can buy replacement sheets to reuse the plate you have just pull off the old diamonds
I have heard several folks that love the atoma's. I purchased one and while it is an ok stone, I don't care for it as much as the dmts or smiths. lately ive been working with a lansky, and it seems ok also. just goes to show how varied everyones tastes are in stones :}
Congratulation on the smoking cessation. Thanks for the video. I have been playing with my ARks for sharpening razors and have come to the same conclusion as you have.
I've come to the same conclusion about Arkansas stones - they work way better when textured. But in my experience they need to be textured whenever I use them. I don't know how you get 50 - 60 knives between texturing because mine glaze over as soon as I use them.
Way to go Joe with no smoking. Life decisions that pay dividends in the end. I really appreciate the detailed info on your channel. Iam new"ish" at free hand bench stone sharpening but iam hooked like a large mouth. Iam uncertain as to how often I should lap my arkansas for the best results. I feel like iam over thinking things a bit but I sharpen quite often. When do you feel a typical arkansas (more specifically non true hards) deadens out before needing to be lapped?
thanks! its been almost a year and a half now without smoking and still going well :} your stones will let you know when it is time to condition or lap. when freshly lapped they will cut very nicely, then after some use will settle down some, and then when they just dont seem to be cutting right is about time to condition them.
Hi Joe. Interesting your comparison with diamond stones. It raises some questions on my part. Can you refresh the cut of diamond stones with lapping like standard stones? What difference the profile (valleys and peaks) does it make with the diamond stones: is it more agressive for same grits? Some say that no lubrication at all is necessary with diamond stones, is that true or water helps get rid of metal debris? Thanks for your video.
the diamond stones that I have worked with are a metal plate with diamonds sprayed onto the surface, very much like sandpaper. once the diamonds are gone there isnt anything left to cut, so trying to resurface them probably would not be a great idea. if the stone is clogged, i have had good luck with something like simple green or dawn and a toothbrush to clean them. the great thing about diamonds is that you can use them wet or dry and it doesnt seem to matter all that much as long as it stays clean.
depending on the stone, yes you can. but the loose abrasive works so much better that its like night and day. something about the loose particles being able to roll around between the stone and the flat surface really increases thier abrasive ability
Joe, thanks for another great video. I have an old Norton (about late 30s or early 40s), it is a typical combination stone, but it doesn't appear to be a Crystolon. It is just a standard man-made stone (not an Ark, or India stone combination), What were they made from back then? I wouldn't trade this stone for the world, the new stones aren't the same. I have a fair variety: Hindostan, soft and hard Ark, water stones, etc, I always start, and sometimes finish with the old Norton (depending on the steel). Can you please help me out?
i dont know what they are made of except the black ones are usually silicon carbide. i have a pretty good selection also, and the older ones do cut differently than the new ones. i would guess that the bonding agent that they use has changed a bit over time, or maybe it changes the older it gets.
Great video. Thank you. I have done honing in a machine shop for years and we just used water. Wouldn’t water be less sticky with the metal filings and keep the stones cleaner? You always see the old katana sharpeners using water. I just purchased some Arkansas stones and I am thinking about just using water. What are your thoughts about this? Thanx!
i havent had much luck with straight water on oil type stones like arks, sics, and indias. it is better than nothing though. water and a little bit of dawn or other dishwashing soap works pretty good though. straight water works well with manmade water stones, and does pretty good with my belgium blue, and my natural from jonhathan coe, so it might be a regional thing as to what sort of stones are in that area. the best answer would be for you to try it and see if you like it or not with your stones.
you can just use water, no problem. For arks, anyway. Some Norton stones come impregnated with oil, which would mean you would not be able to be use water with a Norton India.
@@petercasey175 just cuz it’s impregnated with oil doesn’t mean you “can’t” use water..! It would only mean that the stone won’t soak up/absorb water, BUT water can still be used and stay on the surface quite effectively! It’s not going to hurt it to try (I promise you)
@@TylrVncnt I have one nice translucent that is impregnated with oil and it smells of oil even years later. I just use water because I don’t like the feeling of oil on my hands
Nice video Joe! I have been playing around with what edge finish to use for the last couple months also. What I am comparing is the Wayne Goddard edge, M Crystolon/F India vs Dans Surgical Black. It isn't easy trying to tell the difference between sharp edges, even a coarse vs a very fine edge. If you want to check out what I have been doing it is on Cliff's forum under Tune Up's.
just spend a few hours yesterday flattning lapping my surgical black after i roughed it up on 20 grit naniwa stone i got really nice edges of that 20 grit lapped stone and whas like okay what happens if i go to 1200 grit sic powder my god this stone is trash now it doesnt cut whatsoever left the edges on the course 80 grit sic powder and tried sharpening on that and it gives a nice bite! guess im going to re lap the surgical to just 80 and get my bite and hair whittle splitting edge XD glazed stones look beautifull but are shit
@@joecalton1449 Yeah, it gets better with time. The worst problem I had was what to do with my hands, I was used to having a cigarette in my hand all the time. With out one I felt weird just having my hands at my side.
Üstadım bir istekte bulunmuştum sizden bileme taşlarını hediye olarak istemiştim gönderirseniz çok sevinirim minnettar olurum lütfen ne olursunuz olumlu cevap verin lütfen şimdiden teşekkür ederim
Well if you finish a soft Arkansas to 220 grit it’s gonna cut fast because the surface of the stone is so course. This is what coarser stones are for. By finishing at that low of a grit, you are limiting the capabilities of the stone greatly.
Joe Calton what you are doing is like taking a super fine stone and finishing it with 600 grit. The stone isn’t being used to its potential. In no way will Novaculite stones ever cut like Diamonds.
@@roughroosterknifesharpenin5531 He did never say that stones will cut like diamonds , he said that you can bring stones pretty close to diamonds.And the harder the stone, the closer to diamond you can bring it.
yep, pretty much lived in the shop. smoked in the shop, outside, and in the car or truck. thats probabaly why it was so tough to quit. but its been over 3 years now without smoking and i would not go back
As a 100% disabled person, I request these stones as a gift from you, I would be very grateful if you send them as a gift. Please, I would appreciate it if you could give a positive answer, thank you in advance. Best Regards, Abdullah Menevse ❤❤🙏🙏🙏❤❤
