Hobby Cheating 178 - When NOT to thin your paint 

Me too!!! I'm still laughing lol

It's the tutorials that bring people, but the bad jokes and puns that keep them coming back. ;)

YAS! I love all of it, but even if I'm not in the mood to hobby I'm always in the mood for the jokes and puns:)@@VinceVenturella

That’s awesome. Happy to help as always. :)

Amen.

Don't worry, it's in the sacred texts, just in the hidden sections, you have to use lemon juice to see them, Tech Priest Nicholas Cage taught me that. ;)

Come for the tutorial, stay for the puns. ;)

@@VinceVenturella ah ha ha! +1 Seriously though. Thanks for all of your content. Awesome work.

That's awesome to hear. :)

Thank you, happy to help as always. :)

Excellent happy to help as always. :)

Awesome, happy to help as always. :)

That's awesome to hear, happy to help as always. :)

Thank you, always happy to help.

My pleasure!

Yep, I used a large mini here just so it's easier to see, but I do the same technique on cloaks and cloth on 28mm miniatures all the time. :) - Glad it was helpful.

Thank you, happy to help as always. :)

Blanche was always an idol of mine for sure. The funny part here is that to an artist used to working in 2-D or on canvas (like Blanche did and still does), this would be completely normal, it would just be the way they painted, but we learn differently and so to us, this is often counter-intuitive. :)

Thank you, always happy to help. :)

Well thank you, very happy to help. :)

Robes and cloaks are the perfect test to do this for sure. :)

Shout your wet blending loud and proud. :)

Agreed and agreed (there should be more colors out soon, hopefully at Adepticon so I can pick them up).

Thank you, happy to help as always. :)

Thank you, very much appreciated and always happy to help.

Yep, this is basically two-brush blending with one brush. I have generally just found it easier to work this way, but you can certainly apply the same tricks to two brushes. :)

Happy to help!

Fantastic!

Yes, this is definitely a very Wappel inspired technique. It shows that there is always more than one road to a finished project. :) - I hope you are enjoying the new paints, I know I am certainly loving them.

@@VinceVenturella Loving them so far, to the point where I think my other paints are feeling neglected. the past couple of weeks have been just Monument and Oils. Some of the most relaxed painting I've ever had

Excellent, happy to help as always and glad to have you along on the hobby journey. :)

Absolutely, I have a few videos using this technique on the channel, here is one - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AoPsAC5Erro.html

@@VinceVenturella Thank you Vince

Haven't tried them yet, I have a backlog of paint reviews to work through (there are so many) and with Adepticon/CB/GD coming, I haven't had as much time as I would like for experimentation. I will get to all of them eventually. :)

The easy answer is always push the contrast more, it will not be cartoony. The reality is, if you're wondering if you need more contrast, you need more contrast, it's almost universally true enough that it's the rule (until you develop the eye for it). The nice part is, you can always just glaze things back into line and reduce if you ever did go to far.

Still a large brush and the same basic things, just less paint (I would use like a size 3 instead of a size 8).

Exactly true, in the end, it's good to experiment with lots of style of paintings so you can figure out what suits you the best, in the end, we can use so many techniques to get to the same finished model.

Cloaks are a great surface for this and to practice with, they have the perfect shape and size for this technique. :)

Can't speak to it, I've never really used Brush on primer very much.

It's an older OOP bust, so you wouldn't be able to find it around except in second hand markets I believe (I think it was called like Dark Warlord or something). That being said, check out Mr. Lee's Minis, you should be able to find lots of nice busts.

It's a brave new world. ;)

I have, the mission models is interesting. I quite like it, but I have only experimented with a few colors, not enough for the whole range. I am going to have to pick up some more at some point and give them a real thorough test.

He'll survive somehow I am sure. He's a tough guy. ;)

You can do it! My honest advice is don't wait, grab some figure that you are okay to experiment on and go nuts, it's so much fun and the more you do it, the more comfortable you will get pretty fast. :)

@@VinceVenturella Well... I did! Thanks for the encouragement! I posted it on Instagram and tagged you if you're curious to see the result (@swombat on Instagram). I used it specifically on the purple cloak, alternating between purple and pink. I may have used some glaze medium to slow down the drying further, but don't tell anyone :-P Next one I'll try it without any medium at all... I think I didn't really need it there tbh, it just gave me a bit more time, which I ended up not needing. :-) Thanks for the video and for the encouragment!

The bust is some kind of evil general, but I literally don't remember anymore. I believe it's well OOP and I picked it up years ago. Busts are always something I buy because I like the look and save, as they tend to go OOP quickly.

Well, they will never really be that. HBAs are meant to be used differently. If they are artist grade HBAs (which is a question of pigment quality, density and size), then they can be thinned with other mediums and flow improver to thin down and act a little more like traditional paints. In the end, HBAs are meant more to be painted on the miniature, what I mean is that you put a glob on and then you push the paint around on the mini itself to thin it down and smooth it out.

@@VinceVenturella Thank you. Yeah, those are "Amsterdam". Tried to dilute it with medium, add water and add a bit of soap to improve flow. None of that work for paintng. However they work amazingly as a drybrush and create a nice wash. So there is something.

I think it's a great way to go for quick painting. Your other options is the contrast paint method over zenithal priming. In either case, the zenithal can help you get a good map of where to paint.

So the key is never put the water directly in the paint. YOu want to make a little pile of paint separate from your main paint, then slowly touch the tip of your brush to water, wick off a little onto the paper towel, then mix it in, then repeat until you get a good thin consistency. Hope that helps.

@@VinceVenturella Sir, thank you. I've been killing my paints. I owe you a cheese cake.

As Vince said, it is hard on your brushes. Cheaper brushes are your best choice

Agreed, in general, you want a large synthetic brush for a technique like this. Not just because you are hard on your brush and will definitely destroy it (you will) but also because you need real tensile strength in the bristles to push the paint around and synthetic brushes designed for watercolours (which is what we all paint with when we are using sable brushes) are far too soft for this.

Many, myself included. It feels like a little bit of treason, but of course, there is always more than one way to paint something and end up at the same place. :)

Excellent, happy to help as always. :)

Sure did, you can find that video right here - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-dTqK28W-NEY.html

Lots of great places for busts on the internet, Mr. Lee's Minis is a great place to start.

1) It's not that they are thick, if you watch my review of pro-acryl, you will see that they are incredibly opaque and yet have intense coverage due to the ultra pigmentation. It's this combination that makes them perfect for this. That being said, yes, you can (and I have) done this same thing with Scale 75 and Warcolors. The warolors and some of the scale might be a little more transparent, so you might want a thin glaze of the mid-tone color first to completely dry to keep everything more smooth. 2) It's a cheap synthetic brush I got out of a random multi-pack, probably cost me 10 cents. 3) Still like a size 6-8 if you can, as long as it's new and has a point, it will work fine (you use cheap brushes until they don't have their point, then you toss them). But you could do like a size 3-4 as well if you weren't as sure on your brush control. I am working through some Skaven for CB/GD and I am using the size 8 from this video for most of the work, then switching to a small brush for the fine detail.

@@VinceVenturella excellent, thank you. Once I saw the first minute or two I remembered your video on blends with the Celestine model. They're two very similar videos, but silghlty different takes. That being said, would you ever take the same technique (paints on a plastic palette) but use retarder medium?

@@padrespeaks Sure, but minimally. You want to touch your brush into the retardant medium and then wipe it off, then go into your paint (so there is a little retardant in the brush). You don't want it thinned too much, as that will make the paint break when you are pushing it around.

That is a good one, I assume you mean with a hot core and a cool outer edge or something, like a hot core trapped in the center of something as opposed to just a sword of like lava or something.

@@VinceVenturella Like how a sword would look if a blacksmith was still working on it. Thanks for the response! This is so cool, I'm a big fan :)

Oh definitely, much of my painting relies on happy accidents. ;)

I have a few thoughts. Any of these could be responsible. 1) Red, especially crimson, is a very transparent color. Lacking that opacity, when you stretch it out, it will more easily show what's underneath. You could solve this by first laying down a glaze or thin layer of one of the reds. Let that dry completely, then do this, that will make sure when something shows through, it's still red and it all aligns. 2) Are you using Model color or one of the air lines. The air lines are naturally thinned and so might not have enough paint there. 3) A larger, synthetic brush might be helpful depending on what you are using. You want plenty of paint in the brush and when you wipe it, you want it to be able to move the paint with long bristles without lots of little strokes. In the end, give it a shot with another color (like blue, which is more opaque), results will vary per paint line and paint color as they all have different levels of opacity and smoothness.

Ok, so point 1. It's crazy how "thin" the crimson is compared to other colors in the same line that come out of the bottle a lot more thick. Laying down the base red coat made it much easier. I did notice how transparent the crimson was and I switched to plain old red. Then did some highlights with the crimson. 2 I'm using the Model Color. I do love the air lines. I have one in metallic and it applies amazing.3 The brushes I use are cheapo's. Synthetic, but all pretty small requiring a few more strokes than I think I should be using. New brush on the way.I did try it with black, German Grey, Light Sea Grey, and White. Definitely a difference.Thanks again!

Great for metallics, I have a few videos in the playlist where I do this with metallics.

When you want to wet blend, that's when you generally want to leave it this thick.

And more coming every week. We aren't stopping anytime soon. ;)

I too await the response. ;)

@@VinceVenturella With new contrast paints he had to admit that "One thick coat is ok" :D

Totally fair, in the end, there are lots of roads to the same painted miniature and the one that works for you is the correct one. My goal was simply to expose people to another option for how they could be painting, but there is no one "right" way. :)

Thanks!

yeah, I was wondering the same

A great question, the answer is sort of but not completely. Let me unpack that. When you use retarder, you are necessarily thinning your paint. Nothing about it says thinner, but you are mixing an additive into the paint, meaning some larger % of what you were painting with is no longer paint (and pigment), but retarder. So what will happen is you will end up reducing your coverage and when you push and merge and blend the layers, you will show what is underneath instead of having enough paint to keep it all smooth. The thick paint is a feature, not a bug. Now, that being said, if you have a little liquid retarder and you used that to moisten your brush (wiping excess so there was only a little) that could certainly aid this technique.

thank you very much, @@VinceVenturella! it makes complete sense. I just found (and subscribed to) your channel and I'm going through your videos, and I'm finding so much interesting stuff. thanks for all that!

You have a strong point there. ;)

Most of the time we are applying paint to a miniature through a single stroke. That is the application and the area. BUt if you think of how we apply paint versus something like how a canvas painter uses their canvas (think Bob Ross), they are applying a large amount of paint and then moving it on the canvas directly, mixing it there (not on the pallette), smoothing it, pushing it around. This technique is much the same. You are applying too much paint to the miniature, then treating it like a traditional canvas pushing the paint around.

Vince Venturella AHA! Thanks for clearing that point up for me! This technique sort of terrifies me! Fraught with peril. Our teeny, tiny canvas has lots of details that might get obscured. I love how exciting and challenging this Hobby is! I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge.

You got me, you got me. ;)

There are FOUR PAINTS hahahahaha #teaearlgreyhot

You have to open your mind to the webway portal my friend. We have secret knowledge, and elvish snacks. They are like normal snacks, but elvish. ;)

Absolutely! But that can be a fun thing - failure is the first step to learning. :)

@@VinceVenturella You know it! Scored 9/10 on an exam in college. You better believe I remember the answer to that one question I got wrong!

Yes, I wasn't taking enough time to smooth out (and had a rough base, as I had painted it a few times already for some other demos), which made a little rough, but the basics are still true and I use this technique quite regularly for smooth results.

Well, this would be the default for many coming from 2-D/Canvas art as well. Then we tend to meet the "standard" within miniature painting and forget all the good lessons of canvas. IN the end, both and many more are valid method for painting, it's about finding your specific style. :)

I'm sure Duncan will be okay with just a little bit of heresy, as long as it's getting models painted, I don't think it's against the Omnisaih's will. ;)

@@VinceVenturella 😁

Well, he did just advertise one thick coat this last weekend, so he is on board as well.

I really need to get some sun on that hand sometime. ;)

Well, this was meant to be rough and fast, not a perfect blend, it's about establishing contrast quickly. If you watch someone like Banshee work, you'll see he uses many of the same techniques. If you want another look at this sort of technique, here you go - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AoPsAC5Erro.html