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Plot twist: It wasn't Lorgar's ego at work. The gods willed him to attempt this failed coup because it would bring Horus out of his torpor. Lorgar's banishment spared him losing on Terra, meaning he and his legion remained intact while the Sons of Horus were torn to pieces in the legion wars.
Nah. Chaos gods wanted Horus to win, and had Lorgar been in Terra, there would have been greater chance that Chaos would have won. Lorgar was arrogant, so it is not out of character for him to do something stupid.
@masaheimoi No there wouldn't. As long as Horus faltered at the moment he was supposed to kill the emperor, it wouldn't have mattered if the word bearers were there. They would have also been slaughtered. Lorgar was right about Horus's faltering resolve, and his leaving indeed kept his legion mostly intact while Horus's were scattered and destroyed
@@gaebi Did chaos gods forsee everything? If they didn't, having more troups would have been beater, since that would make Horus more likely to get where he needed to be.
I find him completely unlikable. His reasons for rebelling are almost entirely about feeling under appreciated when he's the second most celebrated person in the Imperium.
@@RichardMcLaughlin-lu1of Blame the writers, (well, blame the original idea to make it like ten novels which rapidly expanded while still having a very short intro, really Horus needs a series of primarch novels, but your thesis isn't really entirely why he fell, it's alot more than that, he ultimately grew disillusioned with the great crusade, he ultimately felt the astartes, him, and the whole blacksmiths of the anvil of the great crusade would slowly be cast aside, and he ultimately began to dislike the 30k imperium in general. I remember, I hope correctly, some BL writer talking about how if they did Horus Heresy now, they'd of originally branded his rebellion as a more noble one, and then we could watch as it degraded, with big signs being, like, Calth.
It truly is just such a tragedy. It feels like they both realize what Horus has become in this moment. Just a hollow shell for the gods to force their presence through. Lorgar realizing what path he put his once beloved brother down, and Horus, in one of his few remaining moments of clarity, realizes that he was just about to kill a brother he had cared for and loved, forcing to hear his own words and realize how hollow they are and how correct Lorgar was in that moment. Breaks my heart 😢
@donleoni2880 there is a possibility Lorgar would do exactly that, his own Dark Imperium, quote frome 9e CSM: "The industrial world of Philostus had piously continued to churn out tons of war material after the Great Rift opened. With their view of the Rift obscured by chemical smog, few of its labouring billions comprehended the tales of darkness that spread from the world's rulers. Not, that is, until the day the 'Emperor' himself arrived with a vast fleet of warships. His manifestation had been presaged by ichor-weeping statues and visions punished as heresy. No armaglass illumination did justice to his dark majesty and shining, undefinable features. Dissenting priests disappeared beneath mobs of zealous adherents, their cries of 'daemon!' dying with them in the flames. The 'Emperor' and his Angels of Death, more powerful than the myths had ever suggested, demanded much. The Philostians, indoctrinated over generations, loyally served. -Piety Perverted"
"what _about_ slaanesh?" You do " _This_ " by putting " _ " before and after a word. _ This _ _This_ But i don't think horus seems like the hedonistic type? but if Slaanesh is really just about "Excessiveness" then that may open options, theoretically 🤔
@@mariusconstantin6057 yes, that's literally what buggs me off. Astartes were supposed to lead the armies of the Imperium. It doesn't makes sense that one of them is barely stronger than a Custodes.
@@justwannabehappy6735 I like the he is not a fighter but a man of belief and conviction. He is the "underdog" and has to use other ways than his strength. I find Leman Russ very boring for example. Traitor primarchs to me seems to have the strongers characters and in some way feel more human. Almost non of them came from a good family and that bends them to what they later became.
Imagine how delusional you'd have to be to truly think that the primordial beings of the warp, older than the Imperium maybe even older than the universe itself, serve you! Horus was a fool, doomed to fail the moment he fell from the Emperors light. Say what you want about Lorgar and the other traitor primarchs but they were not fools.
Ambition ... that was Horus's greatest weakness. He was arrogant, powerhungry and want to stand alone on the tip of the pyramid. As long the gods feeded him with the illusion of absolute control, he was their willing plaything.
@@DeusExMachina10001 David French confirmed that Alpharius was the one who actually died on Pluto. And neither of them ever fell to Chaos, Alpharius was purely Anti-Chaos (thinking that was the Emperor’s wish) and Omegon was pro-Imperium.
Logar became a badass as I will continue to state the weakest primarch ended up becoming the strongest. The change in his character and how he went from a snivling little shit to openly defending his legion against corvus even though he knew he was no match is admirable. Edit: what I mean is Logar is the only one who actually didnt regress but grew from his expereince out of all the traitor primarchs.
Perty would have enslaved or obliterated him, morty would have gotten him to submit to grandfather nurgle, angron would have mad him look like ferrus manus. If you're talking about character he regressed and became the very thing he once hated, that's not growing. Until he accepts his flaws and mistakes, hell forever be the least of the traitor primarchs
@@paulboggess1330 I would disagree for starters the chaos gods much prefer logar over perteruabo as its clear perteraubo had no love for them and rather ascended due to Fulgrim wound on his soul. Morrarion continues to reject nurgle despite being a daemon primarch and not embracing himself further., Angron while yes is physically strong in battle if your oppoenent is backed by other chaos gods as well as you not being constantly angry wouldnt cloud your judgement. Magnus continues to be shat on by games workshop and tzneetch. Fulgrim is a degenerate and doesnt take shit seriously I think people underestimate how powerful corvus is now in the warp it was also to be a commentary how all the primarchs had this ability and essentially sold their souls for nothing that and again Logar is backed by all four chaos gods undived and actually grew to bexome more compentent. And I clarified he didnt regress as a person he grew and i would argue this is grim dark because the weakest and arguably most evil primarch is now the strongest.
@@WaaaghMarine i was always curious how one becomes Demon Primarch chosen by all Four, what are the implications and inner workings of that? Cause dedicated to one deity demon primarchs are basically said deitys pawns as i understand it, what level of freedom does Lorgar has?
@@finalboss5966 Logar actually acknowledges hes completely devoted to him. Thats why hes more powerful he believes there is no greater honor then being subsurvient to the four which is why again the word bearers are routinely ackbowledged as being the winners of horus heresy. They are the only legion intact and like I stated perteraubo only ascended because of his wound. And Unlike Mortarion logar embraces the chaos gods fully. Logar grew in power as a character logar throughout the heresy went from a coward to where he would willingly fight corvus corax despite getting his assed kicked because Corvus was to show that the promarchs souls for a power they possed which is what the tradgey of the traitor primarchs is. Logar is going to be protected because hes the perfect chaos worshipper. Ironically people shit on logar for being generic but hes one of the best characters. Its why I enjoy the word bearers I hate them as villians but enjoy them as characters.
Loved this reading. I can imagine John French's dilemma while writing this - I bet he really, really wanted to have Horus smash Larger out of existence.
Loved the beating Lorgar received. The whole book Lorgar runs some hypocritical nonesense about how he really deserved to be Warmaster and the gods' hands must be helped along. Which, given his "I have choice but to commit betrayal, fratricide, and atrocity because the gods will it" spiel, made thuis quite cathartic. With the gods' blessing, Lorgar was whipped like a dog and like a dog went crawling back to them.
@@CHIMrrshan Interesting stance. The Emperor still sits on the Golden Throne, the Imperium endures, and Lorgar scurried off like a whipped cur. Considering the Aurelian's stated goal was to topple his father and create a warp fueled hellscape his petulant little betrayal did not achieve the ends he wanted. Oh, he gets to sit in the warp on sabbatical, not at all cowering from Corax totally, he does get that. But win? Winners don't retreat to a weeping hole in the galaxy. Winners don't allow others to carry the battle forward under a different banner. Winners don't have their former empire endure for ten thousand years. Lorgar hasn't won at anything in his entire existence, a puppet, dupe, and buffoon at every step. Hmmm, yes, but indeed...cope.
@@fedupN Cadia is destroyed, the Imperium is split in half, the false emperor is dying, warp storms are everywhere, and daemon primarchs are returning to real space to inish the job they started. The homosexual atheist Reddit emperor will be reborn as the Dark King and humanity will fully ascend into a species that can interact with the Immaterium. All is coming to fruition as Lorgar planned and cunts who use Reddit spacing like you are in eternal cope mode, still thinking that a mutant bird primarch is actually doing anything against the third most powerful psyker in the galaxy. Keep huffing it dude.
@@fedupN Going to disregard your homosexual Reddit spacing and address this cope point by point. The false emperor is dying and the golden throne is failing. Cadia is destroyed, the Necron pylon system is obliterated through the careful work of Abaddon, while the Imperium is split in half by the Great Rift (Cicatrix Maledictum) and the Ruinous Powers have free reign in the galaxy. Lorgar's goal was to have humanity ascend and reach apotheosis within the Immaterium. So far, that goal hasn't failed. It's borne incredible fruit, seeing as all of humanity has now enabled the false emperor to become a Chaos god (The Dark King) when he finally croaks. Through the power of belief, they have destroyed everything the fedora tipping cuck wanted, including his dreams of a gay, secular humanity. Oh, and believing in some mutant bird primarch somehow being a threat to the third most powerful psyker in the galaxy on his own homeground is one incredibly pathetic delusion. Lorgar is actually heading his own legion again now that Chaos is ascendant and the Imperium is crumbling. Lorgar was the only one brave enough to defy a tyrant rather than lick his boots, and to pursue his own dreams and vision, to search for the Primordial Truth. In the end, all his dreams are being realized, and the screaming corpse on his golden toilet can only watch in despair as the great game continues to unfold. Cope. And seethe.
Lorgar feels like a flake to me. He wants to believe in something but he's never a true believer himself. He grew up worshipping the Ruinous Powers while also expecting the 5th god to finally emerge and rule over all. Thus the Emperor arrived and he felt that his prayers were answered. He worshipped his father and spread his twisted beliefs through the Crusade, only to be humiliated and his prayers crushed. Then he turns back to the Chaos Gods. Later on, he believed that Horus would become the one true Emperor but then thinks that his brother will lose. Most believers would blindly adhere to their faith regardless of all logic, reason and circumstances, but Lorgar's faith seems filled with doubt with no conviction. If Chaos should fall, what's he going to convert to next? The C'tan? The Tyrannid Hive Mind?
How was the pre-Heresy relationship between Horus and Lorgar ? Does Horus also mocking Lorgar for his religiousity and his "weakness" ? Is there some past fraternity, that hold Horus back from killing Lorgar ... or was it a subconcious order from the Gods, because they forsaw, that Lorgar can be useful in the aftermath ?
Lorgar was right about the Emperor being a god, to him, but what is a god? What is divinity? The emperor is a god, he is also a man, the gods of the warp are deities, and they are also mindless predators that claw and lash out at a material realm that ultimately they rely on. Lorgar was wrong about the ruinous powers saving humanity, he was wrong about there being any virtue in them, and there is something else i'd add but it would spoil the End and the Death. Lorgar found a truth, he also found lies, and foolish notions, but he just had to have the one truth, so he simply discarded everything else that came with it. Lorgar is a parasite, sucking the ichor of "purpose" and "faith", too weak to stand alone, he's by, by far the most pathetic of the primarchs, he was so weak he refused to even admit what he'd done was wrong, he had the cowardice and the gall to act the saviour, plus he got totally pwned in the power game by Erebus.
I was so happy we got more focus on Horus at the end of the Horus Heresy books and Siege of Terra, maybe by design since it was all the better to get his perspective or other's perspective of him towards the end.
