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I want to see Valyria, not Aegons Conquest. I’ve heard enough about Aegons Conquest and his Sister Wives. I want to see Valyria at its height and it’s Doom.
@@NasirPremier904 I bet it was beautiful. George RR Martin has a spectacular mind, if he could describe Valyria to a group of artists I bet it would be gorgeous
They did blood magic and other magical crafts, they also did create abominable creatures as well. They even had a an island where they created abominations with humans and other creatures. Pretty gruesome stuff. Valyrians were so powerful in magic that tegu literally used to communicate though a glass like cellphones from wherever they were
Do you think perhaps when Viserys says that dragons should have never been trifled with he could be alluding to all magic being a negative thing in the world?
Magic is definitely a double edged sword in ASOIAF. He seems to have studied enough of Valyrian lore to understand their sorcery probably lead to their downfall, no doubt.
Great video. I have always thought that Caraxes’ appearance and his nickname as the Blood Wyrm was an intentional connection to firewyrms. The magical origins of dragons also lends credence to the theory that dragons can be controlled by other sorcerers and magic items (like dragon horns) regardless of if the wielder has Valyrian blood, which is why the Targaryens are so protective of their dragon eggs. Martin and the showrunners are doing a phenomenal job of fleshing out the lore.
This! Every time I hear the crew of this series talk about how they "interpret" what George has written, you can REALLY tell that they respect the source material and search for ways to pay homage to it, while having the series be its own story, with strong expansion on the overarching story's lore. SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS! Like how Daemon really did kill his wife in the series, because it is rather vague in the books. They don't take huge, woke liberties with the story, like D&D shamelessly did in the later seasons. I have been LOVING the series!
The creator of high valyrian David Peterson confirmed that Anorgrion directly translates to "Blood tower" and its meaning is temple. He says "it's an old word that derives from even older practices" Curious to know the etymology of more valyrian words/names, I think a lot of it is based off of old Brythonic languages, for example Belerion is the brythonic word for cornwall.
Well that would make a lot of sense! Those aren't firemages at the top of the volcanos they are bloodmages and all valyrian sorcery is rooted in fire or blood (or both). Its my headcannon that the opening credits is actually a depiction of the magic used to create dragons.
@@TheDisputedLands I told my husband the same thing when he questioned the blood in the credits! I mean, sure, it could just be a nod to all the blood that is about to be spilled in the dance, or blood/family/bloodlines, but I prefer to see it as a wink to the blood magic that created dragons.
Yes, and firewyrms may actually be volcano leaches, who need to drink fire/lava to breed. This is why rl leaches (& mosquitos & prob. blood flies) drink blood - it’s mainly to be strong enough to breed) - so maybe dragon blood contains lava to some extent, and that’s why the fire maeges and the blood maeges get conflated… for dragon scientist, it’s the same thing.
@@TheDisputedLands There was a really great theory on asoiaf reddit a while back by a user called wildrussy (?) which basically suggests that the long night azhor ahai myth was about the creation of the first dragon, with a wyrm burying itself in a wyvern egg and then being placed inside a woman. Tinfoily here but Aemma's scream during the cesarean made me think of "cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon" so my headcanon is that nissa nissa had her baby cut out of her so that they could put the proto dragon egg in.
The mystery behind the creation of Dragons (specifically the FireWyrm+Wyvern theory) always reminded me of Sith Alchemy from the SW universe. Which saw sith lords using the dark side to corrupt life and create abominations of great power as a means of waging war. Really cool to see it finally expounded upon.
*Only death can pay for life* Sacrifice is one of the major themes throughout the series. Sacrifice has always led to new opportunities; and most of the time, its been positively beneficial to Westeros overall (at the very least, to the progress and development of the series & characters) I'm excited to see Euron's investments come into fruition.
This theory on the possible creation of dragons and the use of the fourteen flames as a power source somewhat mirrors the theory that the possible creation of the Others destroyed the arm of dorne and threw the seasons into chaos. That there is this immense consequence to dabbling with nature to that level. I wonder if something to that scale is on the horizon with whatever Euron is playing at, where he's entering the picture with these horns and ideas at a point where nature in planetos is starting to hang by a thread.
Well he is definitely playing with magic and magic is a double edged sword. I'm sure he will have to deal with the unintended consequence of whatever he is invoking and im here for it!
The destruction of the second moon (related to or caused by the creation of dragons) caused the worlds spin to accelerate creating shorter days and the illusion of longer seasons. Or not
I always thought it was the blood-mages who held the volcano's at bay, although there where blood sacrifices from the slaves in the caverns where the wyverns tunnelled. I read an interesting theory that it was the faceless men who killed the mages in which caused the volcano's to become unstable and erupt all at once.
If that is the case I guess you could think of it like a dam. We harness the power of water and also keep it managed at the same time. With sorcery you can do all kinds of fantastical things so I don't think the two concepts would have to be separate.
I'm loving all the extra added lore/prophecy bits. The more lore the better, I say. It gives the show some much needed depth and connection to the greater asoiaf world. See you in the streams.....Cheers!
i like how some magical creatures were made from magic and wasn't naturally spawned by them. such as the dragons being born from blood magic at the summit of the volcano, and how the white walkers were made by dragon glass.
Technically, it was proto-valyrians from the great empire of the dawn, yes. I have some fairly popular videos on that exact topic, that you might have already watched.
That is really the plan. Trying some shorter format things to get back into the swing of things and its working out! Thank you so much for the kind words, really mean alot to me!
I think the key features here are sorcery, yes, and fire, and maybe the sacrifice of their children. (Targaryens are like taking a fifty-fifty shot) But I think the key here is the genetics, and the wyvers they found in the volcano. We know that a Targaryen princess was taken to Valyria by her dragon, and she was parasitically infected by the creatures there that came from the doom, or deep underground. They burst from her upon her death, with human faces. I think the Dragons have human dna, from the Targaryens, rather than the Targaryens having dragon dna. But the Targaryens are also linked to them through blood, and fire magic. I think the Wyvers were used to create dragons, through some sort of parasitic infection, but controlled by magic, that produced offspring. The later Targaryens could have resulted from this as well, and have Wyvern influences, but not sure. I also think this is why some of the visuals of the dragons are based on mammals, and reptiles/birds.
This is a great video!! So glad the show has renewed the vigor and relit the flame of great ASOIAF creators like yourself. Keep up the great work Amanda 👍🏾
Hey thank you! Im in a great place and I was just kind of tired of seeing the same breakdowns and recaps when I wanted to see more discussions on the ancient lore and magic and it was killing me that more attention wasn't being shown on the subjects. So I just decided I would have to be that guy... or gal in my case but I'm starting out with some short things just to get back into the swing of things.
@@TheDisputedLands well you’re doing an amazing job. I agree amount of standard episode breakdowns have saturated the fandom. It is nice to see someone bringing it all back to the lore and tying it all together.
I love to think it wasn't necessarily magic but cross breeding and science that created the Dragons. People in the known world just ended up calling it magic. It is interesting how in the wiki they mention that slaves in Gorgossos were bred with "other beasts" as if the Valyrians were looking for ways to improve the blood bond between Dragons and Valyrians but also that it was through cross breeding that they managed to create dragons from Wyverns and another strange species (not tame them) and managed to create a bond between them and their dragons.
@@TheDisputedLands Yeah and I mean if you look at our own world people who didn't understand science in the early dark ages also referred to it as "Witchcraft"
yeah but usually ppl wont get up and start hunting after getting their necks slitted (catlyn stark), or having 10-15 stabs, dying and then coming back to life, or walking though flames. I'd say magic in the got universe is real - though it must have it limits to not be overpowered.
Another theory is a race similar to the Children of the Forest who resided in the Shadow were the Old Race so ancient they had no name and taught the Valyrians how to tame them. I lean towards theory the Bloodstone Emperor from The Great Empire of the Dawn had something to do with sorcery creating both dragons and the Valyrians made as a supernatural slave race
Great vid as always Amanda. I am thoroughly enjoying HotD so far. Especially with not only hitting all those cinematic essentials any project needs - great writing , directing , acting , costuming , sets , cinematography and beyond. But for us hardcore book fans in particular Condal is really giving us a series that to me feels even more ASoIaF universe-like than GoT. Condal being a passionate fan and student of this universe and seemingly close collaborator with GRRM has really set HotD & Condal apart. In particular as highlighted in your recent vids HotD is often delving into and at times even expanding the ASoIaF universe lore. Be it casual asides or more in depth ; it is quite satisfying for us book fans and really adds to the immersion and feel. Valyria (has been touched on numerous times on HotD) but certainly goes beyond that including - Aegon's prophecy , lots of info about / around dragons , curse of Harrenhal , Tyroshi generals and beyond. Even down to touching on fan theories like the Lemon tree with the Braavosi plant thriving in KL. Just such an amazing well done series , the overall quality of which appeals to almost anyone , all the while giving us book fans a lot of gold. HotD is extremely satisfying and honestly my favorite series in years. Great vid as always , look forward to more when your schedule allows.
“By any name, it was an evil place. The dragonlords sent their worst criminals to the Isle of Tears to live out their lives in hard labor. In the dungeons of Gogossos, torturers devised new torments. In the flesh pits, blood sorcery of the darkest sort was practiced, as beasts were mated to slave women to bring forth twisted half-human children.” Your Crowfu is strong
I gotta say, I watch a LOT of ASOIAF theory videos and this is by faaaaaaar one of the best I’ve seen in a long time! It’s so refreshing to get truly excited about a theory.This is truly amazing stuff, keep it up! :)
I really love finding these breadcrumbs (and the hints of Valyria we're getting from HotD). How the Valyrians made dragons also got me thinking about the Empire of the Dawn and if we can extrapolate how *they* made dragons (if you believe both theories ofc). Like how did *they* make dragons? what happened to the EotD dragons? Were dragons created twice or just enhanced? are they different from the Valyrian dragons? the evidence of pre-valyrian dragons suggests they had fire at least, to build the fused stone structures. but the way the text is framed implies the valyrians added something *unique* to dragons only possible in the 14 flames, maybe specific for war? there probably wont be much evidence cuz the EotD is too long ago but interesting food for thought at least
You did watch my other videos on dragon creation right? I talk about a lot of those things. Especially the great empire of the dawn in part II. In fact, pretty sure the theory the great empire of the dawn created dragons originated from me.
@@TheDisputedLands yeah i have! (maybe its time for a rewatch). i'm mostly wondering things beyond the text. what a side by side comparison would be like. why Valyria is remembered as a dragon empire and EotD is not. are their dragons different? maybe less aggressive? was it different societal importance? more tools than weapons? what unique thing would valyria have added? things we probably wont know but fun to think about
With the advent of the Bloodstone Emperor and the collapse of the EotD, either due to the first long night, the shattering of the second moon, uncontrolled bloodmagic use, or any combination of the three, we know YiTi survived as a successor state, with Asshai and Stygia being the possible heartland of the EotD and where magic might've been practiced freely, causing some doom. Which would make sense considering it's a barren wasteland permanently shrouded in darkness with all sorts of spooky happenings, all unnatural things thatg obviously speak of blood or similar magic. It's worth noting that the lands surrounding Asshai and Stygai are said to be mountainous with possible extinct volcanoes, making the possible birthplace of dragonkind aswell. So here's the theory I propose: Bloodstone Emperor awakens the Others alongside Bloodmagic from the Black Pillar that fell from the heavens (Possibly a moon fragment, as the moon could've been a prison for the Others) EotD goes to shit as long night ensues and the Bloodstone Emperor is gone mad with Bloodmagic. Azor Ahai rises to the challenge, he creates Lightbringer (might be an allegory for Dragons considering the price of both blood and fire are included in the Lightbringer myth, same way Dragons were made) magic is used to create dragons, causing the Eastern Lands of Asshai and Stygai to become the Shadowlands, a wasteland, as all life and light is used up as a power source for said magic. The others are pushed back by Azor Ahai and his buddies with the help of dragons, creating the five-forts fortifications, and somehow stopping by Westeros (Westeros and Essos might be connected by land bridge through the Lands of Always Winter and the Grey Wastes) helping the First Men and Bran the Builder set up the foundations for the wall, leaving them to do the rest as he returns to the ruins of the EotD. Valyria is then probably settled by exiled Bloodmages which would rightfully be despised at this point, or refugees, anyways, point is, Valyria is a perfect place to perform Bloodmagic and with the volcanoes they can create dragons there, making it the perfect place to rebuild civilization. Time passes, Valyria grows decadent and proud, forgetting the lessons of the past, and blow the whole place up by going overboard with Bloodmagic in a new experiment probably.
Just decided to subscribe because of your two recent videos with excellent content, very concise but detailed, and a wonderful voice and delivery. Almost ASMR but better for learning content. Keep doing more HoD or related presentations exactly like these two you just did. This format fits you like a Dragon superstar. 🐉 🙏
So then this might mean that Daenerys dragons were born because of blood magic Either Miri maz durr’s, or her son’s, or khal drogo’s, or maybe all three including her own Actually this makes me have a dark thought That perhaps in order for this to work, three sources of kings blood are required Drogo, rhaego, and Dany And that this is what rhaegar intended to do with his children; this is why he said “the dragon has three heads”
There are some hints that Dragon existed in Southeros long before the Targarean so maybe they just found Dragon eggs in the volcano in Valarya and learned how to control them with their magic .. they didn't create anything
Great video. I am always intrigued by this type of stuff in a song of ice and fire. I do think there's some other interesting theories out there, especially around prevalyrian dragons in westeros.
Yes. You are probably referring to my theories😂. I use the term ancient valyria to keep it simple but I refer everyone to my full theory videos done in 2019 if they want to know more. Thanks for watching!!
Exactly!! In fact, Jaehaerys had Alicent Hightower read from a book by Septon Barth on his deathbed!!! And with Viserys being so steeped into Valyruan lore, I think its a really good possibility🙂.
yay for More lore. For me the tight focus on the politics and small group of characters really makes me miss the multiple viewpoints and mixing of cultures and legends and mysteries the ASIOF books have. I was hoping that more dragons = more magic, but it really feels like less to me.
I really hope they pull a "The Wire" season two and greatly expand the number of characters and settings. It would make sense for the lore and there are plenty of ironic parallels that would make for good tv. 9, I just love BOLD Ser Jon Roxton as a character. He's awful. That and the Red Kraken. Also awful.
Two great videos in two days! Just a thought, What does Viserys call the place that the bloodmages work? The Inaugleon? Seems almost derived from the word Inauguration almost? George always picks his words carefully and this could imply this as some sort of ceremony to swear someone into becoming a dragonlord? Just a thought…
I know it's cringe to point this out, but women doing videos and work on stuff like this is so important. You all bring forth such unique and niche ideas and opinions, bring attention to details that men in the Fandom just don't seem to have insight in. Not saying they can't or haven't, but you and The Hill's Alive and others I'm forgetting the name of, have opened up more to me than any other channels on the subject.
Beutiful! You are defenetly on to somthing! The interview was new to me! Bam! George is a part of this production and it is defenetly connected to the deeper lore! We get new information! And so well and pedagogically presented!
Hey, would you be able to do an analysis on all the way they Eyes are mentioned in the book. There’s always something about eyes, whether they be blue like stars, being blind, losing an eye, Varamyr six skins going into “One Eye”. The followers of Boash, The Gods Eye, ext… We had this long convo last night about eyes last night and drove ourselves into a circle for hours lol. Wondering if you had any thoughts…
I haven't done a lot of analysis on the eyes but I do know there is a lot of analysis out there especially pertaining to losing an eye! Definitely check out the blogs and forums!
Dragons being artificially created was always obvious to me, when I read about fire wyrms and wyverns existing, also the Valyrians modifying their gens is also obvious to me, their features are unique and seem "artificial" as well, how they did it will remain a mystery I hope, but is probable a mix of blood magic, alchemy, etc.
Constructive criticism : your video had good points but was laid out messy. You basically just repeated yourself in a loop then said check out the next video. You might be better served in the future to combine info from the two videos and deliver information with every line you say. Good luck and hope you are able to grow your following !
The children of the forest at the Shadow Lands are the ones who created Dragons. Then they showed their newest creation, Valerians, how to tame them. The reason they did this is because they needed a new song to counter balance the force of their old Song of Ice which brought forth the Long Night out of ghost grass of Stygian beyond Asshai. This new song would be know as the Song of Fire. In Game of thrones we are shown how The Others were made with obsidian which is commonly known as Dragon glass and it is the magical fire properties of it that allows Dragons to spit fire. Dragon glass was the materia forge to make Azhor Ahai's sword and it's magic naturally would be stronger closer to the 14 flames hence why he was able to ignite the sword and shoot flames.
@@WrangleMcDangle nothing you just stated is backed by evidence in the books. As a fact is a total contradiction to the origins of the sword in the books. Go take a seat. 😊 Do some reading then come back when you learn soemthing. Everything i stated is based on evidence on the books.
@@joweydelanota7421 you're probably just acting stupid to bait me but okay, ill bite. everything you stated is NOT based on evidence from the book, you're trying to use white walker lore that was made FOR the show as evidence for a book theory. you know what two swords george DOES use the exact same words to describe? Dawn and Lightbringer. They tell us in the world book that the bloodstone emperor brought forth the long night (in an eerily similar way to what Euron Greyjoy is doing with his massive blood sacrifice). It's much more likely that azor ahai was a hero of the great empire of the dawn, but we are also told of several other names of heroes that stopped the first long night. Eldric Shadowchaser, the Hero of Hyrkuun, Azor Ahai, The Last Hero, and Yin Tar are all names of heroes who supposedly stopped the long night and there is evidence (the five forts, the wall, etc) that battles against the long night were fought and won all over the world. So was it one hero riding around on a dragon or was it multiple heroes of the great empire of the dawn all wielding their own lightbringer swords. in daenyrs's dreams in the house of the undying she is visited by silver haired kings with eyes of gemstones that are ALL names of the emperors of the great empire of the dawn. These kings are wielding swords of white starlight which is EXACTLY how Dawn is described in the books. So far your evidence for your fan fiction theory is supported by what, a scene from season 6?Dawn is said to have been forged tens of thousands of years ago, right around the time of the first long night. PLUS George has stated that house Dayne's words are "too spoilery". Your idea that dragon glass was used to forge lightbringer isn't supported by anything. dragonglass is described as black and lightbringer is described as bright like starlight (like Dawn). Also no where in the books does it state lightbringer "shoots" flames. Please tell me whre you read that "dragon glass has magical properties that lets it shoot fire" because I can back up everything I just typed with the exact page and chapter it's referenced in. :) hope you learned something you smug little boy
@@joweydelanota7421 to add even more to my last comment. the five forts are made from the same type of fused black stone that asshai is made from. this stone is said to be made with dragons. all evidence aupports the theory that the great empire of the dawn were the original dragonlords and their capital being the city of asshai. targaryens being able to bond with dragons and having eyes the same gemstone color as one of the kings in daenerys's vision suggets that valyrians descended from these original dragonlords. literally go read about how big asshai and think what empire could have possibly built it.
Does this also suggest that asshai must have also been close to a volcano. Also could it be that dragons came to valyria because they were attracted to the 14 flames as wild dragons from possibly Asshai in the same way Cannibal etc were attracted to dragonstone.
There is evidence of Volcanos within the great empire. check out Marahai the Island that appears to be a large volvanic crescent with two smaller islands that have two active Volcanos. However, I believe the Great Empire eventually Utilized Valyria for their experiments due to the large concentration of volcanos. It would also be easier to transport wyverns if there was a volcanic area near sothoryos.
I think everything somehow related to ashai , and because ashai are known for birthplace of dark magic so i think ashai is controling whole world , they thought valerian how to use the dragons and they gave 3 dragon egg to danerys . Who knows to what purpose maybe for fighting the night king .
If that is true and magic and genetics made dragons i have a wild theory. What if Aegon the 5th tried to used this magic? What if entire Summerhall was an accident trying to make new dragons? And what if those books have survived in the realm? These are some of my questions. If everything is about magic and blood this may also explain why Dany succed and others couldnt. Mirri made the right spell but why she had done that? There are many questions and we will learn them when the next book come. But puzzle is getting clearer with these new details.
grrm has discussed the different aspects of canon, stating that there is show canon, and then there is book canon, and both are separate. so while interesting, i don't believe we can use excerpts from interviews discussing the words of the show runner, who is not the original author, as reliable book canon.
Lol, you must have watched my dragon origins theory videos from 2019. I link them in the comments if people want to know more about dragon creation. Its why I'm so excited about these show revelations. I use the term ancient valyrians but you are correct, they were technically protovalyrians which are detailed in my videos I link below. Thanks for watching!
hey a bit of an unrelated question but isn’t there another valyrian house in westeros in the books? maybe i am mistaken, but could have sworn it’s not just velarions and targaryens
Thought the books say dragons originated from lands far east of Asshai. There's tales of ancient civilizations of the empire of Yi Ti & Asshai that used to be dragon riders way before the Valyrians
You should probably check out my dragon origins videos. I say ancient valyria, but you are correct, technically it was protovalyria, I refer everyone to my other videos if they want to know more. There are a lot of show watchers and introducing and explaining the concept of the great empire and their relationship to valyria takes a lot of time. The books give various explanations for the origins of dragons but protovalyrians engineering dragons is a theory that I did back in 2019. I have two videos part I and part ii each are 30 min long which is why I am so excited it regarding this bit of information from the show. Thanks for watching! Cheers🍻
If Valyrians invented dragons, then who created the mysterious black stone artifacts that are peppered throughout Planetos? Such as the Seastone Chair on the Iron Islands, the foundation of the CItadel, the black walls of Volantis and the Five Forts that lie beyond Yi Ti. Not to mention Asshai itself? I was under the impression that dragons are needed to make the black stone.
You should probably watch my more in depth videos on dragon origins part i and part ii. Part 2 is about 30 min long and has your answers. Also, I have a video on oily black stone and the shade of the evening tree that was nominated for post of the year on reddit back in 2017 when I first wrote it as an essay.
i don't want to be that guy, but there are hints that dragons had to be in existence long before the Valyrians existed. You might want to look into the Great Dynasty of the Dawn and the 5 black forts of the dawn age. Those castles could have only been built with the help of dragons because they are made of fused black stone. That was 5000+ years before the rise of Valyria. That means the story about the Valyrians were beeing taught how to tame dragons and the dragons origin beeing close to Asshai and the Shadowlands is more likely to be true
You are correct. It was technically the proto valyrians from the great empire of the dawn who first created dragons. I originated that theory, so you have probably watched my older videos before🙂. Thanks for watching!
Intelligence: the Valyrians created dragons from blood magic High intelligence: the Valyrians learned dragon blood magic from the great empire of the dawn
@@WrangleMcDangle funny story. It was my theory that provided the inspiration for his. Back in 2019 I had to convince him in a mechanisms of magic livestream they were created rather than naturally ocuring Thanks for watching. Part 2 is where you will get all the great empire info.
So which came first the dragon or the egg? I bet the mages who were doing the rites that created them were Targaryen ancestors and that's why current Targaryens have the bond and ability with dragons that they do
In other fantasies magic is performing some tricks with powers. In asoiaf its dark stuff, you do magic magic will then demand something from you. Nothing good is brought by it.
