HOW FAWNING HURTS YOUR RELATIONSHIPS AND HOW TO HEAL | DR. KIM SAGE 

Its such a strange feeling, thinking that no one understands you, and then you click on a video of some lady on the internet and she reads you like a book lol. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!! Much appreciated!

When I isolate and am alone that’s when I feel most like myself and I feel safe to be myself. When I am with others there is an automatic reaction to be who they want me to be instead of me being me! I’m so lonely and yet I feel best when I am alone.

I almost get a panic attack if a person puts my needs before their own cause that goes against what I was thought, my needs always comes last.

Fawning has been 💯 me. It just feels so icky. And I hate myself for doing it. And then I hate myself for hating myself. And my self-worth becomes less and less. It has been a vicious cycle of self-loathing. 😔

I have such a huge problem with this. I’m a middle aged self employed carpenter. My “helpfulness” is tied to my income, besides it being a coping strategy from being a kid, raised in a narcissistic family system. I can see now that it dramatically reduced the amount of attacks towards me by being highly valued. But I can go into fawning without realizing it and offer to do things for customers as a solution to their situation and realize afterwards, why did I say that, why did I offer that? What the hell just happened? I have worked hard on internalizing that I am allowed to change my mind and I am safe to communicate it with honesty and integrity. That helps as a means of dealing with it but the fact that it still happens has caused a lot of hesitation and distrust in myself making estimates way harder in ways than ever before.

I truly wish you could be my Therapist, most of us, feel so freaking alone and that nobody could possibly understand you! We struggle as children, we struggle as adults, especially if we do not get help. The majority of us, don't want to come out weak. Then to add chronic severe pain to your life..... We're basically all alone! Even with family, we don't want to bombard them at all. Yet we're seen as troubled or outcast in the World. I'm so tired, of hearing people say "there's people worse off than you, be grateful you woke up this morning". So our feelings are seriously diminished. It's truly a never ending cycle/battle with our inner selves. 😢

I appreciate that you mentioned Pete walkers book “complex PTSD:From Surviving to Thriving”. Also, thank you for sharing your vulnerability. 💜🙏

No wonder I've been in so many toxic and abusive relationships. This helps me stay away from fawning...and be me!

I just found your videos!! Amazing! I have autism, masked till diagnosis at age 57 last year, loads of trauma etc.. Can never relax and now have 3 autoimmune diseases, one of them temporal arteritis, just been diagnosed. Everything you are saying makes so much sense. I've been actively trying to heal for decades and your work is so valuable. Thank you from the bottom of my heart 🥰❤

Yes I have fibromyalgia and ibs from childhood trauma. Work on healing every day.

I spent the last 20 years trying to undestand why life was so painful. I did so much therapy and tested for nurodivergent behaviors like autism and ocd and also sought if i was a narcasist and other mental illness. Turns out it was all childhood neglect. I cant undescore how difficult it is to navigate adult life when having been neglected as a child.

I am 59 and just learning al of this. 100% Me. UGH!!!!

😭😭😭 I need to listen to this every single day

I feel so seen. Esp the apologizing and the shallow talk with so called good friends. Thanks for this Dr. Kim. More self fullness work needed..

Whew you aint kidding that fawning ruins relationships. I stuck around for wayyyyyyyyy too long fawning over some guy who was not interested

Wow! I think every point applied to me😵‍💫 I never knew there was a label (fawning) for it but I know it came from growing up with an alcoholic father and then a first marriage to a narcissistic alcoholic. So much fear and trying to be the perfect child/wife and never succeeding (at least at the second one) I was always labelled the "perfect child" because, in hindsight now, I stifled all my needs and tried to do everything to stay out of trouble. I have always been the caregiver. Wow again, I could go on and on but thanks for this. 🙏💜

This is me…my whole life 😢

Yes yes and yes. At work, socially, family, everything.

Oh you make me smile so much, yes I think one of the best things about modern life is no uncomfortable phone calls now!😂 I relate to all of this so much and am slowly learning to let go of being everything to everyone but me to myself ❤

This and your avoidant attachment videos sound like the story of my life. It’s so strange to hear my general mindset put into words like that.

That’s the problem with putting EveryOne 1st We’ve taught them we come 2nd..😏 Including OurSelves🤯 & now I’ve recognised this & am desperately trying to set boundaries etc family etc are getting mad. That’s the thing The only people mad at you setting boundaries are those who benefited from you have none. I feel so sorry for MySelf how I neglected MySelf all my life🖤

I enjoy being around people a lot, they give me more to think about and laugh and smile about, even if it is usually a fawning response. But when I finally am alone again, I realize how exhausted I am, how much I've forgotten to do or still need done that day, and can finally just watch or play the things I was dying to that morning

Great description of the ways fawning manifests itself. But would like to see more about how to heal it. Especially how to find people who can "hear" you, when you finally learn to express yourself.

Kind of asking for what you need or being passive aggressive because you don't think you deserve it 😢

I have been watching the past couple of weeks several of your videos and today I would like to say THANK YOU! Your loving and caring way of speaking, your simple way of explaining with hands-on examples and overall just being very authentic, like in this particular video. Because the truth is that we ALL struggle, we all have our fears, insecurities, traumas, challenges, including therapists, doctors, coaches and who else is out there in service to others. And it is beautiful and inspiring to know, that we can be vulnerable and open about our struggles, learn how to cope with it and inspire others with our own story. I could say so much more, however I'll leave it at this. Your videos and messages are caring, loving and compassionate and it is of great support. Thank you

You really it home for me. I engage in so many of these behaviors...

Thank you for helping me realize I'm not crazy. ❤

Whoa! There’s a lot to unpack in this video. Fawning consists of so many behaviors than I thought. I recognize myself in many of the examples. Some I have addressed. So many that I haven’t. Recovery is a slow process like you said and it is never one straight line up. I sometimes feel like I’m playing whack a mole! Thank you Dr Kim! I am saving this video to a playlist so I can listen as many times as I need to ❤

best description of “fawn” I have heard.

Dr Kim, you are so right about this. I love how you fully explain the process of how we got where we are. As for part of my fawning expression, this is weird, but I had extreme difficulty even ordering from a waiter. I’d feel like no one should be waiting on me, that i should be doing all the work myself. What a blessing to hear your words and your honesty. I think you are FABULOUS💙

I needed to hear all that right in this moment in my life. Thank you.

It's interesting to me to learn about this and see in a family of 4, how each of us came out of our upbringing practicing sometimes same and sometimes different ways we fawn.

It's hard to even acknowledge, because I honestly never saw my mother as a narcissist (I think more like Borderline Personality), but she was angry, yelled...and then there was the beatings, the hair pulling, slapping, throwing of things, etc. We were terrified of her and then she went back to work when I was 11 and from that moment on, we learned to take care of everything on the farm. Chores began at 6 am, feeding the horses and goats, milking the goats and also cooking cleaning, shopping when I was old enough to drive. I absolutely hate conflict; it makes me physically ill and I have like these little breakdowns if I have to have a confrontational talk with someone about serious matters. I felt for years like I was worthless and didn't matter. I was also horribly bullied at school, but mom was not a safe person to go to, so I was 'sick' a lot and lived in fantasy land. My sister says that I was a hyper-sensitive child and so everyone was careful not to make me cry. shrug I realized as an adult that I am HSP, very intuitive, and empathic. (My dad was very intuitive as well) I have known I had c-ptsd for many years now, but I really connected it to trauma in adulthood, because once my mom left and divorced my alcoholic dad when I was 17 (dad was funny, hard-working, life of the party guy) she became a totally different person, very kind, loving and for many years dove deeply into self-help...back in the 80's. However, I grew up to marry a horribly abusive alcoholic, divorced and was with another alcoholic for 8 years who was a lot like my dad, but also a cheater. After we broke up, I've spent the past 6 years on and off working on myself, therapy, self-help, diet and exercise. I was horribly obese and lost over 20 years ago but lost over a120 lbs. I still struggle with weight, which I believe is part of my self-sabotage programming, low self-esteem, etc. I eat really healthy...for the most part, workout now, and connected my weight issues and self-esteem with childhood trauma, relationship trauma and am still peeling back the layers. I am currently engaged to someone who is sober and struggling with his own trauma from also being the child of alcoholics, was terribly neglected and then went on to marry a narcissist. He finally divorced over a year ago. We communicate beautifully with each other and support each other's healing journey. This year so many things have happened, and I feel like I am constantly being triggered, which in a strange way I think is good, because I'm recognizing these triggers, understanding more and more why I react in certain ways and trying to get learn how I can handle it differently. Mind you, I'm in my 50's, I raised 4 children and am now just understanding my triggers. It's a journey of the self every day and one that doesn't end, but we can achieve our goals and dreams just the same. Affirmations, meditation, self-care, hobbies you enjoy, it all helps.

Thank you ❤ I really appreciate these videos. It’s helping me to understand ‘why’ 🙏🏻

Thank you so much, i really relate and am benefiting from your videos 💜

fineally someone understand

In the state of Illinois at least, every counselor must have their own counselor.

Two thoughts: 1) I have not figured out how to show up for myself as such. I might never. But! I have generally figured out how to say, "I can't do [X thing] and continue to show up for the people I've pledged to care about. So I can't do that thing." In other words, you don't have to figure out how to serve yourself before growing in these areas. 2) Networking events are for people who can't build a network otherwise. The better way is what I have called productivity-based networking, which is what you did: build your network with the quality of your content. Networking for networking's sake isn't merely putting the cart before the horse; it's getting a cart and never visiting a stable. So, in my view, it is a strength that networking events are not for you.

Dr Kim, do you have a recommended reading list?

Oh! This is me 😭 How do I fix it?? Chronic pain sufferer for over 40 years too 🥺

Are you able to get someone to fawn over you without being an a****** to them. Because I would love someone to be like this and then for me be able to also help them get their needs met but it seems that this behavior is a response to someone treating you poorly

Me. Everything she said. What a waste of time. Hoping to change my self beliefs in my second half of life.

Dr. Sage radiates hot mommy energy! 🥵🥵🥵

I'm trying to figure out how to deal with my family.

Does anyone else remember being really outgoing as a kid - only when the adults weren't around? I was really good at making friends with other kids because I felt like it "didn't matter" and I could just be myself. But I clammed up the second an adult came in the room and put on my "good girl" face. I was scared of getting in trouble, and over time I felt like I had to wear that mask all the time. Now I'm trying to reconnect with who I am and express that to other people, but it's so hard to put the mask down.

Most of my life I have been a fawn. Now that I'm older and things are different in my life, I'm not so much anymore. But once in a while, I'll catch myself being too much of an empath and not presenting myself with a sense of worth and confidence. It's something you have to watch about yourself. Self care is still a huge issue for me. It's a battle I face every day. Thanks for ALL your videos!! They are so very helpful.

This definitely hits home to me. Fawning is something I did to keep the peace at home and to survive as a child. Its TERRIFYING to acknowledge my wants and needs because I'm terrified of people thinking I'm selfish. Obviously, looking after your own needs is not being selfish but it's so hard to break the conditioning of fawning. Our emotions lie to us constantly but our mind believes what our emotions are telling us and it all gets so damn confusing!! Anyway, the more I practice the better I get at looking after me.

I fawn and don’t even realize it until I’m alone after the fact. Gross feeling.

I so appreciate Dr. Sage for honestly sharing her own struggles with social anxiety and business networking and how, instead of trying to force herself into an unnatural (for her) social and business mold, she was compassionate and accepting of herself and utilized her skill of resourcefullness to make her business model fit her natural temperament. Loved that. I felt encouraged by her example. I have struggled with accepting my own social anxiety/avoidance for decades. Thanks, Dr. Sage.

I’ve intuitively noticed the fawning response in myself over a decade ago, researched trauma and cptsd 5 years ago - but I STILL UNCONTROLABLY REACT WITH FAWNING in 90% of any human interactions. I became a recluse to stop fawning triggers because mulitple therapies did not lesson my fawning response.

I'm learning not to fawn and hide from people. Too many years of being taught to be a doormat. I'm also learning who's worth my time and effort as against wasting time on people who aren't.

🙋🏻‍♀️ this is me! Fawning, putting everyone first but ME. I gave my whole life away. As a kid I had to fawn to survive pretty brutal physical abuse. Brutal childhood, brutal marriage. My husband passed and now I’m putting myself together trying to find and restore myself. I’m writing because I loved writing as a child. Thank you so much for lighting the path with your hard won wisdom Dr Sage, wow your name fits perfectly 😊

I realized a little while ago that I really have no idea who *I* am and what *I* want. My whole life has been about trying to live up to other people's expectations. The thing I enjoyed doing most (art) has been tainted and has become no longer enjoyable because that's ALL that I am to other people: The Artist. "She draws so well!", "maybe you can draw something for their birthday", "why don't you and [niece] do some art projects?". And now that I've hit a major artblock after dropping out of art school (again, because other people wanted me to go, not because I particularly wanted to), it feels like I've lost whatever put-on "identity" that I had. Now I'm just floundering. I don't know what I want to do and don't know what would bring me lasting joy because I never gave myself the chance to find it

Yep on the "I don't matter." And if you think any other way, you're "selfish." This whole video was very relatable.

Thank you so much for making this video. Would you mind making more videos on fawning? Every point you made describes me to a T. I was horribly bullied as a child during most of my formative years and then I'd come home from school to a violent/neglectful alcoholic father and my mother coped with it by SCREAMING at her children. Her moods were unpredictable and to this day the sound of stomping footsteps is a trigger. Our parents had horrible fights in front of us All. The. Time. If they were screaming at each other though it meant they weren't screaming at us. And for me, being bullied is NOT a little trauma, it is a Big Trauma. There was no adult I could turn to with my feelings, let alone needs I didn't even know I had (I grew up in a small town, the parents of my bullies were all friends with each other and the teachers). I learned very very young that if I appeased my peers and parents they'd lessen up for a little while. I also feel like there's so much shame around this particular trauma response because almost by definition its where you don't stand up for yourself. You're a coward, weak, a push-over... "she just lets people walk all over her so she deserves it." It's SO HARD to talk about because again, people think you deserve it. I feel like I am blamed for my own trauma. Anyway, thank you for the video and I'd love to see more on the fawn response.

If I am correct, then fawning is a response to a perceived threat. So, if we are fawning in our relationships, the question becomes, why do we feel threatened in our relationship with others? Could it be something to do with a pyramid shape? We fear authority figures. We are terribly insecure with peers. We prefer to 'date down' but this in unequal and gives no satisfaction. Is the insecurity with peers a mirror image of our relationship with our siblings ?

You just explained why all that assertiveness training I took years ago never stuck: the issue runs much deeper.

This resonates so deeply, it’s shocking

Me: “so you’re saying my needs are a burden to you and you wish I never realized i had them?” My narc ex: “YES!”

Dear God!!! I walk around with a limp. I bite down on a rag rather than go to the dentist. I literally told a boyfriend ,'I don't matter,you do.' I fix, mend, help and order other people and their lives. I attract THE most selfish human beings. One partner said,' If you need help with anything, just imagine I'm not here and then do it yourself.' I eat bad food in restaurants because I don't want to offend the waiter. When I'm not helping or fixing others I lie down (on the floor) and don't do anything.

I've had a traumatic childhood from a narc household. I've seen so many others have a similar childhood and heal WAY later in life ( 40s, 50s, 60s, etc. ), IF they heal at all. I have honestly been more afraid of NOT healing and holding myself back, than I am of putting in the work to heal and be better. I am in my early 20s, and I can fairly say my core mother wound is now a scar. I have an entire life ahead of me to keep healing minor tendencies ( like fawning ) and truly live in the moment. C-PTSD can seriously destroy you if you allow it. It really is up to you to take massive action and heal. Good luck to anyone on this healing journey, it is NOT easy, but it IS worth it!

Such a great round up of fawning! This is WHY I'm SO passionate about conscious parenting! I spent most of my life fawning/masking as a late diagnosed Autistic person, and so much of my life has been exactly as you describe... I've done so much healing to be able to stop relying on this coping strategy. My young daughter is hypervigalant and I believe relying on fawning due to being conditioned by my emotionally immature parents, just as I was, to be the Golden Child and it makes me SICK with worry! She was taken away from me 8 months ago, due to my perceived 'mental health issues' which was really me part way through healing and having dropped the fawning and reigniting my more true fierce advocating nature, and trying to get her the help she desperately needs... My toxic family threw me under the bus saying I don't believe in boundaries and discipline and that 'shes always been this way'... That's all it took for services to place her in my parents' care..! No amount of explaining myself and how I'm an SME in intergenerational trauma and attachment theory etc will get services or my parents to acknowledge just how clearly I have a handle on this situation and my daughters true needs... We are now caught in the family court system and may be for another year or more! It is heartbreaking.

This is so validating. I feel like I was suffocated and this is telling me it wasn’t right that my oxygen was cut off

This is so validating. I have been listening to CPTSD and HSP-related stuff for a long time now (unfortunately only discovered these things later in life) and I learned a lot and it helped, but I think this is the first time I've ever heard a talk that touched this exact nerve. I knew I was a "chameleon" (before I ever heard the term) long ago and actually thought it was something to be proud of. Now I realize all the pain inside of me that came from pretending that my own self didn't matter at all. I have been so damaged but have experienced so much growth and healing. Unfortunately, I doubt that bouts of depression will ever completely disappear though I am grateful they occur less and less often because I know how to protect myself from triggers more and more. Thank you for this validation.

Wow does this hit home. I went ten years into adulthood without seeing a doctor or dentist. Once I did start seeing a doctor, my mother’s comment was always “why are you bothering the doctor?” She had me convinced that I didn’t deserve healthcare.

I've noticed in many cases, I know people who over apologize when it comes to unnecessary stuff - but they can't give a real apology when it counts and would repair the relationship.

This was me. Up until last year. I'll be 31 this October. It's a VERY hard to pattern to break out of personally as I've experienced childhood trauma. It landed me in tonnes of trouble and that caused more trauma ! Cause I'd be quiet and not speak up if my friends' came up with stupid ideas back in school and somehow, whenever we ended up in trouble, I'd be blamed even when I had nothing to do with it and I'd willingly take the blame . I wouldn't speak up for fear of being left out in the group. It caused me years of pain and misery. I can't rewrite the past but I can choose to do better in future.

I did not know what fawning behavior was until just a little while ago, I am a terrible people pleaser and fawning is a defense mechanism I definitely use. I'm going through some personal growth right now and the fawning behavior now drives me crazy I hate that that's my default tendency it annoys me so much that I do this I am trying so hard to stop!!!

Thank you! Growth is slow....but it does happen.

I love how honest and relatable you are with your own stories and issues (and the way you speak and express yourself). Especially in this video how you showcase that we don't need to make ourselves be the standard that society seems to expect but can still be functional and useful in our own ways. Thank you for your knowledge and putting yourself and your unique way out (t)here.

It's not about the destination. It's about the journey. Never give in. Never give up hope. Thank you for speaking the truth. Im in the present moment.

I think my mother had BPD and NPD characteristics and as a result she never showed interest in anything I did, except when she planned it. She never ever asked me anything about my life, my thoughts. She died 2 years ago. She needed constant reassurance that she was loved but she was bottomless in that regard. Without exaggeration she knew nothing about me. As a result because neither parent were emotionally available and neither knew anything about me, I have trouble talking about myself outside of my partner. I'm a great conversationalist and can draw the other person out and hsve them talk endlessly about themselves and at the end of the night they will know very little if anything at all about me. I probably would have made a great spy 😂 . I'm not sure how to change that. I will have to work on it.

When you described the problems, I just "yes, yes, and yes". Recognized everything. One problem with this is that if one gets to see a therapist, one automacitally scans for what they want (what kind of patient, what kind of therapy)....

Love this - i exist, i matter ❤🙏

I'm so grateful to hear these thoughts! As you were talking, I was like "Wait, you mean not everyone does this? I thought everyone was like this." Work in progress! Thank you!

🌱🌏💚 I cycle through responses. Ie: a fawn response triggers a fight response. Then.... sensory overload, meltdowns & burnout. Cptsd & undiagnosed (until recently) ASD. An absolute mental f🤬king nightmare. Thank you Dr Kim, I appreciate your videos & candour very much. In the process of finding the correct therapy & life support for my specific needs. It's really difficult but I'm determined to not exist in this mental prison any longer.

100% how my childhood was and what I struggle with still

So we are left with a compromised and confused identity. We have been like an actor, who has become lost in character. Who Am I, before any of my story? This is a profound question for anyone to ask, and it puts you into a state of mindless presence. There seems to be a duality of the thinker and the thought. Who Am I?, before any thought or self-idea arises? Who Am I, prior to my inner narrative? If you can observe thought, if you can Witness thoughts arising to your awareness, this must mean you truly exist in a position prior to thought. What do thoughts do to the Native Inherent Happiness of Being Itself? Meditation is a matter of coming to rest in the native position, the mindless feeling of Being. The ability of being able to focus attention, to become aware of where your attention is going and how it is making you feel. It is not a matter of fighting against thought, it is about a relaxed observation of the thought process itself, instead of the usual unconscious fascination and absorption in the content of thinking. What would happen if I only existed in the prior position of mindless embodiment? Is this Enlightenment? Is This Reality? Is This Truth? Is This Happiness? While we have been psychologically abused and had a sustained identity crises, and been made to suffer greatly, we have also been afforded the opportunity to deeply consider our identity, because it has been so greatly challenged by an unbalanced force, after the result of being raised by a mentally unstable caregiver.

Kim your skin and and hair well all of you inside and out is beautiful thank you for dealing with fawning just what i need at this time in my healing journey ❤❤

Caught myself doing the “I’m sorry” thing last night…the quickly following it up with “no , I’m not sorry.” It was like I finally realized there is no need to apologize for being me. These people don’t know me and I owe them nothing. So who cares?

I am so like you... Cannot stand surface converstaion. One on one communications really fill my soul.

Self focus is not selfish

This is so helpful. Speaking of the extent of helpfulness of therapy- if therapists could recommend videos like this to watch in conjunction with therapy I’ve would have gotten so much more out of it than ( what i see as) superficial and short term help from CBT.

Oh, God! I literally mean that cry to God. Three minutes in and I am awestruck and bawling. I"m working on healing. I can see this SO CLEARLY how and why I've had so many narcs in my life. As long as I wasn't in a relationship, I was functional and highly productive in business and at peace with God, isolated - not letting anyone in. I'm disabled so this was a necessity.. But the isolation, my whole life long periods in between relationships, was also a response to the narcs and relationships that left me so unfulfilled. And, I'd seem to over-give and couldn't do both work and the relationship. with an emotionally unavailable man. Well, I've been celibate and single for 30 years. I'm traditional. I just figured i couldn't find the right man and was serious about being a Christian. Making my way out of narc friendship now, or Borderline horrible sabotage and utterly wicked, having to get all my belongings back after ghosting. I trusted again. Well, this time, I have discovered SO MUCH help on youtube and internet, like this beautiful Dr. Sage here. This video cuts so deep in a good way - discovery and crystal clear seeing something I've yet to know. WOW! JUST WOW. I knew my nervous system is wired because of trauma and neglect narc mom, but I've mostly just been collecting videos as I"m hanging by a thread to get safe and settled to heal. I've watched some videos and have started to heal, but mostly i've been preparing. Already, I've come a long way. You are never too old to heal and give yourself the love first and have richer relationships. Don't look back. And, if you've been hurt by narcs, don't give up on love as I did. You have so much healing available to you, therapy, and doctors on the internet - youtube here - to heal yourself so you WILL have that love and marriage you deserve. I may or may not get it. I know one thing is that I am shaking it off and healing deep. Already I am so much freer. I just haven't had the chance to utilize and systematically put myself through therapy on the internet. Some may need to see a doc. Maybe I will. I am more of a hands on, help myself one. And, these coaching and learning videos are INCREDIBLE. I am deeply grateful to you, Dr. Sage. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I'm in the midst of heavy trauma now through brutal circumstance and I am already so much stronger not just from before I met, but through understanding what' i've learned so far and facing the pain within, defined. That's the key. One has to be able to see and define the hidden pain and how and why we've had such troubled relationships. I never believed from first discovery what narc was that I attracted them. I knew that there were the others before in my life. It is the WIRING through the childhood trauma. So, we respond unhealthy , destructive to ourselves to these kinds that are wicked and traumatize. Yes, I call them wicked. The weaklings never did introspective work in their lives. They are cowards and cruel. I don't forgive them, nor do i have compassion for them. I have been doing introspective work since teen, reading self-development, psychology, and facing all the pain in life. They NEVER face it, are not accountable, are intentional in their actions, without remorse, cruel, vindictive, spoiled brats. Many of these narcs and borderlines are this way because they were spoiled brats with trauma from neglect and the patterns, but they NEVER took responsibility, practiced their wickedness, chose this, and exploited and harmed others with INTENTION. Shame on these b-turds from the pits of hell - including my mother. I'm not bitter, though this is where i conclude. I release them and shake them off. I understand them all to well to know I do not choose to forgive them. My mother i forgive, because that is different. But, the narcs not my mother and borderlines, i do not.

This is such an affirming talk, Kim. I can’t thank you enough. I thought it was just me and I was so ashamed of being like this. Now I can see how I developed this response and I can also see how to begin to come back from it.

Maybe I’m rare but here’s what happens with me. I either put someone else’s needs first and completely lose myself or else if they put my needs I lavish in it so much that I neglect the other person. It’s like it can’t be a give and take. It can’t be reciprocal. It has to be one or the other. Period. Ironically even when someone is giving me everything I want I STILL lose myself through inmeshment. This is why at nearly 50 years of age I have never had a relationship past 6 months. I simply fall apart. Totally disfunctional. It’ll be that way until I die. I’m not even looking for pity. It’s just a fact and I don’t care anymore. It’s simply not worth it. Life is too short to try and overcome such torture.

This Fawning thing reminds me of past term people pleasing, though may be incorporate more as we learn more about what makes humans tick.

I wish there is doctors like Dr Sage in France.

That is what I heard all through my childhood--if you want to cry I'll give you something to cry about.

I CAN'T STAND SUPERFICIAL SMALL TALK EITHER! When you've spent your entire life overthinking everything you and everyone else does, even after learning to set appropriate boundaries and expectations, it's so irritating to me to be around people who engage in small talk about things that really don't matter! I stay away from those situations now. I do have a tendency to self-isolate, but not totally.

For me it feels as if in the short run I can have more mental peace by avoiding being a “burden” as well as by making sure others needs are met before mine, even though I know that in the long run it’s been detrimental to my mental and physical health (and, even for my life plans). 🤷🏻‍♀️ I hate it, but it feels so hard to stop being this way.😕

Kim I have listened to a number of your videos and find them to be very "accessible" and supportive. Also your production - especially the audio - is just excellent. Thank you for doing this work, it helps people who are struggling.

I've become very aware that I have an unhealthy need for validation from other people. Now, I kinda 'short circuit' and go numb when I realize again and again that I worry about doing the next little thing because someone might object/reject. Kim, I admire your willingness here to again and again express your vulnerability and your strength in a consistent flow of communication. I think you're doing great things here... and I'm grateful.

Im so far below frozen. This is a living hell. The very last of my delusions are vaporizing. Those were my last defence.

I notice this too- the superficial way family members talk. ! Fake ! Annoying .

I think that fawning makes normal people to stay away; they probably think we want something from them or that we are narcissists love bombing but the only people who don't get fooled by fawning are narcissists and that's why we sometimes wonder why we attract so many narcissists and that's because they see us through and in our way to walk, move, talk, etc. It's so sad being brainwashed to be doormats and that's where our shame dwells in; not being true to ourselves although it's subconscious and there shouldn't be any guilt but awareness.

I loved what you said about surface conversations. I can't deal with them either, it's so shallow. I'd rather be alone.

So interesting, I recognise much of this in me. I know that people used to vomment on my apologizing for everything. I can’t say what needs I have, other than, food, sleep and clothing. I don’t know what a normal family is like, or how it differs from enmeshment.

Jesus said follow me and then he kept on walking. Jesus said if you are thirsty, drink my living water and you will not ever be thirsty. Jesus speaks then moves. He doesn't really wait. He might come back around but his plan is going and his plan is good so there is nothing to think about. If you never want to be thirsty drink His water. Trust, obey and live.

Can you talk slower?