How Streamers Ruined Gaming | Asmongold Reacts 

Mean while Team Fortress 2: Potiss Potiss

just stop playing into the meta trash, you think its required until you develop your own pool and if the game isnt trash it will allow for players to find their own workable if not better than meta char/play/comps

There's no such thing as a 'latest meta' because it constantly changes. You either adapt, or you lose. That's literally life, which is not a 'meta game'.

Meta and an influx of hacking. People advertise hacks/spoofers on tiktok a lot for profit.

That and the fact that companys stealth boost people who pay for microtransactions. Hearthstone. COD, and a few others.

And they usually aren't, they're just using some exploit or op meta to compensate

Strange it happened only after the Pokemon era children grew up.

@@dn9156 even on the off chance that they're genuinely skilled, they only feel good if there's someone who loses against them. Singleplayer try-hards at least have a sense of accomplishment for a bit, but the fact that neither single or multiplayer try-hards can just enjoy a game for what it is is the most telling thing

my buddies got me to buy helldivers 2 and they were like 4 hours in and i was like 2 hours in. He's already sending me endgame meta youtube videos like bruh i've only played 2 hours ffs.

Yeah 4-5 years ago, I'd pretty much all but given up on MP gaming, on the rare opportunity I was able to get "the boys" all coordinated for a few hours that no one is working, taking care of their kids or doing chores, we'd try to play something like CSGO and just get dominated by 12 year olds that have infinitely more freetime, to the point it's just not fun. So I switched almost exclusively to SP games for years. The only recent exception has been Helldivers 2, because I'm not competing "against" the other players, and my friends and family seem way more encouraged to make time when the stakes are low and getting dunked on by teenagers isn't a virtual certainty.

Was just about to say this. That emote is impressive irl

Hopefully, he doesn't break a hip or something doing it.

I genuinely don't get why this stopped being a thing in multiplayer games. When I played COD on the Xbox 360 in high school, I'd stay in the same lobbies for hours, forming friendships and rivalries and just generally having a good time. Now, lobbies automatically disband after the match is over, so unless you friend request all those people, you'll never see them again.

You sly dog, you got me monologuing!

i stared at the sun for five minute's

Grammar, where is the capital at the start of your sentence?

@@creatorsfreedom6734 Did you go to school? A sentence starts with a capital.

@@satansclaw11 there you happy?

even beyond that, something like Among Us became huge because it was a casual game you could play with friends. Need more good games like that

⁠@@varietypaulAll Battlefront Classic Collection needed to do was exactly this and it would’ve been great 😂

People will come to treat these like PvP if given even a little bit of challenge. See MMO raiding nowadays

@@stoneodin2288 not really an apt comparison, that's a pvp game

Even hellsiver has their won sweaty/toxic player that angry if u didnt bring loadout they want or kick u ingame even u didnt do anythinf wrong

Yeah, it's really just min-maxing by the devs. If all you knew about basketball or football came from sportscenter highlight montages and top tens, you'd have a very distorted view on what those games actually are and how they should be played.

switch switch boom

Facts. Dedicated servers were the best thing to happen to gaming. Want skins? Make them. Bored with the maps? Make your own. Gamemodes getting stale? Community made mods take 10mins to install. Gamespy shut down? Community made anticheat incoming. EA no longer supporting the game? Doesn't matter it runs on dedicated servers. Medal of Honor Allied Assault is still playable to this day. Why? Dedicated servers.

Dedicated servers really made it. Playing with friends and enemies is much more fun than playing strangers.

@@lemonsquidsec i agree. Nothing like hopping in your favorite server and seeing all the regulars.

Still have that in Ark, and some of them have incredible things happening. Not an FPS though

U never need to use any of those, enjoy the game how you want. The moment you use these you are part of the problem

Online gaming was fine before so not rly tbh it is more about streamers and the way game implementations changed for online games

just eased the accsess to information. If you choose to play a competitive game instead of a coop or pve oriented one there will always be people who wanna win more than you . They will research the shit out of it . Same goes for chess. If you choose a game with a leaderbord, dont be suprised someone is tryharding . You can always just accept being casual in a competitive game , thats where most of the playerbase is anyway.

most people dont care about leaderboards, but everything else yeah people meta the fun out of games.

Agree, optimizing income in mmo game are crazy, you play game not work a job

Eft

Man i really badly struggle with exact that... i start grinding a game an unhealthy amount until i achieved whatever i set myself out to. During the time i start to not enjoy it very quickly, and after i finish the task, i don't touch the game anymore and move on to the next game..

@@coldfries8976you are not alone, I’ve experienced the same thing. Haven’t had it put into words as clearly as asmongold put it here before

​@@coldfries8976 I do this with games in a similar way. I start playing and love it and my brain goes into lets do it all!!!!. I have stopped this by playing then. Switching games every couple of weeks then going back again, it's helped me finish games and enjoy the whole playthrough

@@coldfries8976games like Elden ring make unhealthy amounts of grinding worth it

Or, just hear me out. Some people are just not competitive in nature, but they choose to play a competitive game anyway. And are now complaining that they have to play against competitive players. 😂

What? How is that even possible? I really don't understand. Do you have anymore insight into your experience?

@@matthewmullins4046 i have no idea. I couldn't believe it. It was like it was impossible to kill anyone. Not in a way that they where good and I couldn't beat them, but that it seemed to take way more hit markers for me to kill them. Heroes of the storm and overwatch had a very similar ranking system. If you got to far above what they originally ranked you at the beginning of the season the game would start making it more difficult for you to win. In my case that ment matching you with teammates that didn't know which end of the gym the bullets came out of. Again, seemed to be more than that. Other players all the sudden became much harder to take down

@@tylerandiemichael159 I play Valorant ranked for fun (I'm just Silver, nothing special cause I'm not good at FPS games)... when I was trying to get out of Bronze (I'm better than almost any Bronze player) I would get to 1 win away from ranking up... that rank up game would magically be on my worst map (Breeze) almost every time (8 out of 10 tries) at which I have only a 20% win rate and would ALWAYS have at least one guy on the other team that would end the game with 35+ kills which is an insane kill count for ranked valorant against players "of your level"... games want to keep you running on a wheel like a hamster... if you rank up and are satisfied you might stop playing you see... Better example... back in 2013-2014 I used to be a pro-level player at FIFA (not a professional, just division 1 and winning a ton of games even at the top)... back then the game was fair, the skill gap was huge if you knew how to play and the game didn't assist you or cover your mistakes... but then they started to cater to the bad players to assist them at "not getting beat that bad"... so what did they do? Assume you're doing a wrong pass and aim right at your opponents defender... the game would do everything in it's power to make the pass go through and the ball would go way off from where you aimed to avoid the defender... you're pretty much not playing anymore, the AI is correcting your mistakes left and right and all you do is button mash... so now people now literally button mash in a sports game... which made me quit cause I didn't care about getting to the top if it wasn't due to skill... the game literally has scripted instances where the input doesn't match the output within the game to make you lose more games if you're good to "keep you playing" since you take waaaaay longer to get to your deserved rank... back in 2013 since in FIFA you have to start from Division 10 at the bottom every year, it took me literally 2 weeks to get to Division 1 and had a win% of 90-95% and up to Division 3 I pretty much was at 100%, can't remember losing a game in those divisions cause I was simply too good for them... but after getting to Division 1 these low rank players would never see me again... And by the way, this should be lawsuit worthy since it's really messing with people's mental health... gaming companies are causing kids mental breakdowns just to make money... nothing shittier than that...

What was the point of such a change in all online games? Now it makes it pointless to play them, I feel more lonely than when I play a single-player game.

@@stanislavkimov2779 you can make your own lobbies and invite people to game , happens all the time. Every game has an invite feature and if it doesnt your steam does You sure youre playing games ? Sounds like youre just busy listening to your own voice Yes old lobbies were sooooooo good always playing with the same 10 ppl because everyone else is better than you so there is no point looking for other lobby especially in games like cs , quake and so on...good luck finding a lobby you dont need 2yrs of practice to be able to hang with. Talk about bs nostalgia trips

@@Jaime_Protein_Cannister thing is, you must find these people outside the game and bring them there. In game you only find randoms that are different every time.

@@stanislavkimov2779 you can invite both friends and randoms , almost every game that is online has an online id system and it has been ther for the past 10 yrs or so yrs. In fact you steam shows your what your friends are playing , just message them... jesus I get invited by randoms all the time and invited to discords and so on , ive gone trough 10 or so groups of online only friends in the past 5yrs ... why do you blame the tools if you dont use them

@@Jaime_Protein_Cannister They're talking about making friends, not sticking to friends they already have. Also back then many people didn't play video games, let alone competitive ones, so there was a good chance that none of a gamer's friends played the same games. I can't tell if you're trolling or actually low-iq, but on average most people have a similar level of skill, so no, he probably didn't choose to play w/ the same people due to a lack of skill. You can deny all you want but matchmaking did kill the old "choose-your-server/lobby/room" experience, at least in the AAA world.

meanwhile, farming in games like EDF or Borderlands is fun because it's set into the core game loop. I need to collect all the armor crates, because the Hectors kick my ass and even 10 more armor can help me survive another hit.

100% .. never understood looking build guides on a PvE game

those kind of people say the same thing about genshin. as soon as a new update drops, theylle be looking up farm routes, chest locations, etc, and beat it all in 2 or 3 days then precede to complain that the game has no content. like no shit dude

Yeah and the devs thought of it so: automation defence FAILED.

@@TheWhiteDragonEmperor because the game has no content… it’s the same fucking boring end game loop that amounts to nothing because spiral abyss is east and boring as shit to do.

"Skill based matchmaking in casual modes." 🤦

Real gamers could always have fun gaming no matter how bad they were. Having fun had nothing to do with prowess.

Yeah and this happened like years before Fortnite. I remember seeing the change in league when it first came out. And it became more and more toxic because of it.

Gaming has definitely gotten a lot more competitive or "tryhard" over time, though. I think Twitch and Esports popularity has pushed that along since a lot of people want to be pro or "famous" gamers/streamers and I feel that games definitely used to be a lot more about just playing them when I was a lot younger. You always had that competitive community there, but it feels like that is the majority of players these days. There's also a lot more information online about games that is easy to find, especially with RU-vid being what it is and tons of websites dedicated to theorycrafting, builds, or whatever else and that easy access to information will only bring the average skill level up. When I started playing WoW as a kid, I pretty much remember thottbot and that was about it. If you've played WoW since the start, I think you can see a clear evolution of how people used to play games and the direction it headed in afterwards, because it didn't just apply to WoW, but to games as a whole. I might seem like some old boomer ranting, but I've also been through that phase when I was sweating WoW PvP every day with no job back in Cata until BFA so I understand it.

Uh you do know the majority of people don't watch streamers right? Also, strategy guides were a thing way before streaming was really that popular. The reason why you see the same builds, is usually because that's the most powerful. What, you think the majority of people are going to intentionally handicap themselves just so you have a different opponent to fight? No. Obviously streamers might have an impact in making a certain build more popular, but that's not really because of the streamers, it's because players use that build and then other players get rekt by it, so then those players use that build and so on. Same goes with strategies, let's say a streamer finds a super op spot to camp in tarkov. Well players will copy that, and then other players are going to copy them. If you take streamers completely out of the occasion it will still happen because of strategy guides, and if you take strategy guides out of the occasion it will still happen just a bit slower because players can only find it out from other players or their friends. And this is all assuming the person doesn't find out about it themselves, because almost every person who played elden ring instantly realized how powerful bleed, dex, faith, and magic are, it didn't take streamers or strategy guides it's just obvious, unless the player didn't interact with those builds at all.

people meta copy pasting isn't the problem. even meta builds have their weak points, and can be exploited. especially if enough people adopt an anti-meta build/style/etc. the problem is when the gap between all possible meta potentials is so great that anti-meta builds cannot balance the scale. that^ is when competitive integrity is diminished. i've lived through enough games/genres over years and been part of meta shifts (caused like 2...which is nothing), to know copying meta builds isn't the problem at the core. because if meta builds have the potential to be checked, players can hold the potential to balance the "meta". there's a huge responsibility on the rule makers (devs/studios) to be careful when balancing mechanics/data and/or introducing new variables into a game (assuming its competitive).

It's just human nature to follow like sheep, safer as a group as the outsiders died.

W parenting

Fr

It didnt help that most home ports of street fighter 2 were awful compared to the arcade versions.

*everything

It can be both

Capitalism

As well

Gaming isn’t ruined there’s like so many other games that are good. Just because Diablo an old franchise went down hill or Activision hates you. That’s not games in general.

Yup, when I got back to LOL for a two years period, I was amazed by the level of toxicity players had on playing the game as if their lives depended on it. I tried my best to talk about enjoyment in game (as the name suggest: game) but yeah, for many of these people, it was either hardcore escapism, a way of proving themselves they're worth something or hardcore gridding in hope of getting a job in the field which would be way better than any bs job this world has to offer.

Social media has tainted everything.

I would so love to go back to the world we used to live in before Social media.

Social media also exposes people to a constant stream of the top players showing off to them. It's hard to just be happy with your own meager results while being showered in reminders of what those at the top can achieve.

What does sweating mean aside from the perspiration?

Ye, and I don't think this experience is exclusive to videogames. Any sport or activity irl you play with friends feels good and casual.....but, you start playing against people outside of your friends and suddenly it's a real competition. Same as going to an arcade, whether it's videogames, bowling, air hockey etc.

Which was the reason why I like Helldivers 1. It was a non-party PS4 game that I could play with my friends locally.

So true that's y I hv been trying to find PPL to play terraria modded with who haven't played it before but no luck

this is exactly what i absolutely loved about Destiny when it first launched. it was such an amazing time to be at the very beginning of what would be an amazing franchise for the next 5yrs.. my best friend and i that met on mw2 reunited after not playing together for a year and damn.. it was so fun grinding strikes and playing crucible back then

​@@vulcanz1327I'd be down. Haven't played much Terraria since I played on Xbox with my brother years ago, never touched mods for it.

exactly my thought

Yep, it's like social online platforms have amplified competition for place in social hierarchy. And being better than others at something gives you more points.

My thoughts exactly. It's just a reflection. We want the most likes, the most dps, the most money...it's never ending.

That's late stage capitalism for ya my dude

u all wrong. its cause most people are ugly and can therefore not get a girlfriend so they think i just have to reach this or that and i can get it. but they dont realize they ugly anyway lmao.

Probably why so many gen z kids are chasing internet fame.

Great Take, didn't think of this

That and if you don’t follow the meta, you’re trash and consider uninstalling and good luck getting into guilds that are gate kept by try hards going for dps meters and congratulations player base, you played yourself

Wow was always this way since 2005 if you wanted to push mc and beyond. Eg. If you wanted to Seal of wisdom 1h as paladin, or literally anything besides cleansebot from the back it meant insta-ban. Pure balls.

Just dont use it and it will be fun for you. This is simple. I didnt use any guid and i was so bad but i had a very good time. I use guides in retail (sometimes) if im trying t olearn something faster but thats all.

@@troybilkoI'm one of the players who goes for min-maxing dps and such, but never supported trying to impose it on anyone else. I enjoy playing min-max in games like WoW, but only for myself, because I like to learn classes/weapon classes/whatever it is in games to their fullest. Only ever looked for fun guilds that were competent enough to kill bosses and willing to learn how to. Ran into that elitism in SoD and it was frustrating/sad to see how crazy people were about nonfunctional gearscore addons, having BiS, etc. when the last several weeks was just everyone summoning Yetis to clear the raids for themselves in P1. xD

@@Sunless1337 ruined my wow classic experience. It just snowballed out of control with all the bots farming the materials you would need to keep up with the parses and from there, the toxic player base was too much. Classic became a 4/10 experience because the majority of the player base bought into the meta. I had guild mates telling me how good bots were for the market

Sweats when you start using a loadout for fun: 🤬🤬🤬

What are sweats?

It’s the best. COD mw fast swapping to RPGs was the best

Tonfas and riot shield ftw 😂

Yea except in destiny 2 you have to kill them to get heavy ammo just to use a rocket launcher… and you get 1 single rocket. If you’re lucky you’ll hit someone before you die… I love the game, but cannot play PvP.. it’s just stupid. The PvE is incredible though

Still think it wasn't incredibly difficult to get 50 in Halo. The skill ceiling has definitely increased to unthinkable levels. With Onxy ratings in Infinite really coming down to ping difference. It's unbearable and caused me to stop playing ranked in Halo (The only game I've ever enjoyed rank on)

Rank 50 halo 3 was easy. Equivalent rank in halo 2 was about 30-35. Rank 40+ in halo 2 was godly or cheater

No one above 40ish in Halo 2 got it legitimately. Certainly not the symbol ranks. Between standby and softmods on the map pack, yeah no lol. My friends and I would get around 35-40, and then just use grenades to blow ourselves up over and over in games to down rank back to the teens to start over. Smurfing basically but the same account. There was no point playing in the higher ranks unless you also had a cheater on your side, and hope he gets host by having faster internet.

​@@DPH_Psychosis those bloody halo 2 cheaters it was disgusting loading into a game stuck in some object and getting killed and losing my 40 rank over and over **** those guys

@@DPH_Psychosis I managed to get comet rank for a fleeting moment, then quickly deranked back down lol. Win 20 games in a row, lose one and rank down, but it was a perfect ranking system. Back in my gaming prime haha. I feel like I'm worse at video games in my older age as well. I was 16-17 for halo 2 I'm 36 now, feels bad haha.

Competitive game are meant to sweat tho, thats in the name.

@@kyser2097he prob means the casual modes of those kinda games.

​@@kyser2097 competitive games are played like they're on rails. There is close to no off meta plays or variation.

@@GoalOrientedLifting yeah its just sheep trying to fit in their favorite streamers builds and see if they look cool doing the same thing

@@GoalOrientedLifting not in my games, its full of crackheads on redbull yes but you dont need to play meta to win

The problem with warzone is that they sell the bullshit multiplayer every year and they made it in a way that you need to grind the multi for weapon attachments because there is soo big gap between the ground loot and the loadout weapons.

The problem is you, you will believe anyone is a tryhard thats better than you.

Wow so mad. I see the real problem. And it’s not me 😌

@@jaquesesmiley5465Yes you are the problem. People who complain about tryhards are man children or losers irl. They treat gaming as a form of escapism and want to at least be a winner in a virtual world, since they aren’t a winner in the real world. So when they’re getting sh*t on by someone better than them, they don’t get their dopamine hit and they get angry and frustrated. Calling the better person a cheater whether or not they’re cheating, or a tryhard

@@NPCSpotter oh I guess your right then. Sorry we don’t agree what perceive as fun. Atleast I don’t waste my time on a game that isn’t fun to me. So again I’m not the problem you might be.

Precisely, I've seen trashy games be hyped for no good reason, and good games die pretty much because of streamers.

Prime example: Destiny 2. Streamers have destroyed that game and now Bungie is circling the drain all the while the streamers who rely on said game for their financial livelihood are trying to deflect blame, even going as far as blaming the casual players. Which is why they really dislike games like Palworld, and Helldivers 2.

I've also seen the reverse. Terrible players complaining about games being too hard and then the game is made to be baby difficulty. The solution is have a party mode and a serious mode.

@@cordovalark5295Been saying this for years, kept saying it after I came back for lightfall and then left right after. The amount of times I have seen videos/stream from aztec and the like blaming the majority player base is ridiculous.

@@cordovalark5295to be a casual player in Destiny 2. I just like the bow

I played Valheim on a solo world recently. It was a nice chill experience.

to be fair, thats in large parts because of sbmm and the nonsensical matchmaking rules. Like one win every 10 games or the first game every day has to be good to keep you playing

I like the fact apex has a high skill ceiling for movement. Problem is the top strict sbmm for non ranked games.

@@Pr0fila ohh so that's the secret, I never even get to 10 games per session cuz I get tired of dying at the last 3 teams and then immediately get in a lobby of sweats who kill me within the first 5 minutes

This was my experience playing with my brother and his friend. They won't even get in fights they just wanted to win the Battle Royale... And then if we did get in fights I had zero experience so of course we lose. I'd get so bored I just run into the enemy on purpose. They'd get so mad 😂😂😂

@@butitwasmedioyeah I never win

Which brings me to the Souls games. My favorite games of all time but I cannot stand the PVP aspect. Never been a fan of MP games in general.

@@TheMeanArenaSouls games are fun sweaty. Not easy but it's not like multiplayer sweat, because the game doesn't get harder if you're not playing. Take a month off you're not years behind.

@@sethiddings7293I feel like that isn’t a great argument. Most games don’t have a massive dedicated player base solely playing that game. At most it might be like 1/4th of the player base is dedicated to the game. Most of the other players are like you and me. Dropping out for a while and revisiting, playing in limited time, playing multiple games at once, etc. I would be curious if you are a console player playing cross platform games? I feel like this was one big realization once I swapped to PC was how much better the floor of my gameplay became. It didn’t feel like I was constantly competing with people who held a significant advantage over me. Keyboard and mouse at least made it feel like the playing field was more level.

I dont understand the idea behind that thinking. If you play ranked or even normal games in e.g. Valorant, League, Dota and so on you will always get matched against other players of similar skill level. Sure sometimes an annoying smurf will be in there, but honestly they existed way before twitch became really big and generally speaking the matchmaking does work decently well, so if you get destroyed you should be deranking into some area where you win/lose around 50% of your games. Of course these things dont apply to all games equally well like for Battle Arenas and so on its hard to have good matchmaking, but generally speaking for most big PvP games they work decent. So yeah I feel like you should likely be matched against the majority of humans who are just relatively casual players as well, thus you shouldnt really get destroyed, again broadly speaking about big popular games.

It's just not that fun playing with people I don't know. I might as well be playing against bots. I don't get anything out of it except it raises the competition, but it's not really all that fun.

Dude... the hardest rank in every game is the bottom rank. Just riddddddled with rank tanking smurfs.

what kind of games do you play where you think thats the case? and even if, most games have performance based rating so literally just play better and it doesnt matter if you have smurfs in a lot of your games

you're being dishonest and that's pretty shitty of you. you have to throw 50% of games to stay in the same rank. how is that "occasionally" throwing?

@@user-sj9qf3xm7q It's not the smurfs smurfing. It's the smurfs actively throwing to maintain that low rank. At the absolute worst of the worst bottom barrel newest of the new player level of matchmaking... most games actively try to push people out of that rank. It's supposed to just be there for a few games so people can figure out basic mechanics of what's going on. "Let's just play a game and see if we can pick this up.". The bottom rank is supposed to be for that. People have to actively throw to stay there, they have to tank their account hard. They do it to offset the video clipshow of them getting 100kills in a single match when they are playing against people at that level. For that one performance and stay at that rank they have to throw multiple games ruining things for everyone. But that's the worst lowest rank. In general ranking ladders are shaped like bell curves. If a game has 5 then ranks 3 is going to have the largest population of people. Games that report population ranks show this. The rank right in the middle is always the biggest. So if a rank 5 player wants to smurf on rank 3s hard they're going to have the same problem I just explained. To win that hard every now and again to show how awesome they are for the content they have to throw a couple games too. It's not as bad for the number they have to throw for the bottom rank 1. But they still have to actively play badly in 2-3 games for that performance and not get promoted out of rank 3. And if you play a game enough you can tell. Oddly, something similar happens at the absolute top end of competitive games. An example of that is LoL. Which I haven't played in years but it was in the gaming news. If someone wants rank 1 in Challenger... which is the highest level of play... the only way to get there is Win Trading. Players conspire to be on opposite teams for a match and then one of them actively plays badly on purpose to boost the win rate of the other player. How bad is it? Last year the top spot on every single server was a known Win Trader... which is why it was in the news. Anyone in the top 10 for a region got there because someone else actively sandbagged. Games are more likely to be ruined by sandbaggers actively trying to lose than smurfs. At the low or the high end.

Thats human nature , accept the fact that most players are willing to put in more effort and even more so kids specifically are obsessed with games and have the time to do so. Without ranked you will never find a fair game , because almost everyone else is interested in gaming more than you If youre playing for fun result of the game shouldnt matter Loosing is fun , take rimworld as an example

What's wrong with that kid doing a challenge? Just because you were doing something different doesn't make what they were doing bad.

​@@iiPotatoes Maybe get some social skills fam. That's awkward as fuck. Really unsure how you got THAT out of that post. It was pretty mundane mentioning how some people are confused that other people like to just play the game and dink around. It's really not rocket science. Guess that's a difficult concept for some people, so much it makes their teenage-college kid brain go full angst.

​​@iiPotatoes mate.. you need to work on your reading comprehension

@@davidmoak1219 the kid was looking for an excuse to connect , being in on the same challange makes you alike/relatable. 24h challange in itself is irrelevant Unironically the "Them kids and them 4rtnite dances" take Stop being old and out of touch

@@DrPlonk I took it as the kid was doing a challenge and was asking if this dude was doing so as well. However it is still implied that the kid asking that is doing something wrong.

the amount of daily weekly month grinds for a game these days cant invest time playing something else for fun

what bro? you tellin me you dont like BATTLE PASSES? they add so much fun though

​@@JohnHurt-ym5jq no. Battle pass is pay to grind. I quite RDR2 online because of missing out on something. Technically it's was a reason for me to stay.

Grinding is not as bad if you have satisfying rewards for your efforts.

nope, u dont need grind if theres no meta force u to

Exactly, for me beating a boss in a soulslike actually feels rewarding and I know I got better, beating a sweaty player in an online game just feels exhausting.

easy solution = Smurf

Oh absolutely. I pretty much gave up on pvp gaming and more or less only play FFXIV and Monster Hunter now lmao

@@TheMachine3165 beating a boss that was designed to be beaten < beating a player Stop pretending and lying to yourselves. The reason you guys choose SP games over MP pvp is purely skill issue.

While they're a lot of fun in the short term, the multiplayer stuff is a bit soulless, you, mostly, either win 30 matches in a row or you lose and get annoyed. Wining just becomes meaningless and there's only a reaction when you lose.

I play Fortnite with my friends from time to time and I hop in a ranked builds game and the person was better than everyone in the lobby pretty much combined the Smurfs being mad they lost in their higher ranked lobby’s is happening more often than it needs to and yet the companies do just about nothing to smurfs.

Haha yeah, every Challenger players I can watch says Master/Gransmaster Elo is the most toxic place you can think off. But when they are Challenger, all of the sudden everyone is polite and chill. It's the grinding system, and society is no different.

In my Diamond games most of the time when there is a Smurf that is 15-0 we just FR or the team just starts running it down so it can end if other people won’t do 😂

low ranked matches are hell because of those smurfs. You get a smurf on the enemy team like 6 games in a row and suddenly you’re fighting to not get demoted.

You even see type stuff in ESO below level 50 bgs. I've seen players go 40-0 the highest I've seen was 62-0. Insane

Very true. People that play games based on how an over exaggerated streamer and then wonder why they aren't having fun or aren't as good... It's like copying someone's homework. Learn nothing and doesn't prep you.

I remember giving up on competitive cs after loosing a local tournament to a clan that had custom keyboards/shirts/cap and mouses 😂 Our strat was crappy and all but i remember me and guys going "yeah f this lol i prefer enjoying the game than doing tournaments and becoming like those guys" 😂😂 its been a while maybe 20yrs but it was such an eye opener

also a lot of people cope by saying anyone that beat them is a tryhard w no life

yeah bro, cs was a sweatfest as well back then, first time i heard about clans and going pro in an e-sport. Also don't forget Warcraft 3 and Starcraft. There's a reason LoL came from a Warcraft Mod.

Hah this is accurate. I was a hardcore sweat in Quake 2 back in the day, still play GTA and love hunting griefers. There's just more people online nowadays and it's more accessible, used be that you couldn't even play MP games competitively unless you had access to a T1 line, which I had at work back in '98

And stay off your phone

​@@justinb8297 you better calm down. If you are too salty about this, trying to be better at a game is actually a good thing.

I love slapjack

Single player solves every problem mentioned here. I never understood the need to chase something that mean nothing. Play for yourself and just to have fun and every problem mentioned in this video goes away.

​@@nushia7192why you trying to try hard the comments

Warning: ESSAY incoming. problem what we have here is two-fold; by not using meta or a close approximation to it you either A: Can't carry your own weight (which is valid if the build you had was really trash which I doubt) or B: People value their time, just because you've done it "100 times" doesn't mean anything when you are about to join a group that wants to get it done now before the missus starts complaining or the kids needs help with homework. Something that would take 10-15 minutes shouldn't take close to an hour, that's inexcusable. Now you'd think those numbers are an exaggeration but I play a lot of division 2 and I see horrible builds every single day doing legendary missions that SHOULD take 15 minutes tops. 3 dps, 1 healer or CC (CC being prefered here since rooted enemies don't shoot back and doesn't take cover so they are easier and quicker to kill). We could argue what "reasonable extra time" to clear a legendary mission would be acceptible... half an hour instead of 15 minutes? sure... but when we're closing in on 45 minutes - 3 times the "normal" time (not even a speed run time mind you).... then you start to hear some muttering. Then after a while people just invite and instant kick or invite, ask if you have a dps or a cc build and then if not kick. But that takes time and finally people stop inviting randoms or matchmake totally because what's the point in filtering out trash for an hour when you could just carry some sorry sob through the mission during that time. Then people start doing them in duos or solo in less than 30 minutes, regulary so no need to even group up any more. Now it's one thing to not have everything super duper maxed out and another thing to have something equipped that says "I sneezed and clicked at the same time and now this is what I wear", if you show signs of actually trying to follow a cookie cutter meta build (which to be honest isn't a dergatory but rather a baseline to follow) people tend to be more friendly and let you in a group even if it takes longer time. But then we have to consider C When asked if you had build X, did you get defensive or were you apologetic or even worse dead silent/afk? Because what we see here is only your side of the argument. So TL:DR I think it's a mix between B and C that got you rejected.

I mean you don't deserve to play with them. There is no reason for them to take a chance XD.

yeah haters gonna hate, they don't respect other people's builds anymore because meta is all they can think of

@@AMolinaLamatta yeah call it "haters" for not wanting to waste an inappropriate time doing some mission/dungeon/raid you already have on farm status because someone wants to be an unique and beautiful snowflake that drags the team down. Try your builds on your own time and with friends, when joining randoms it's usually a crap show, when joining a group "LF1M" try to atleast put some effort into your build because no matter what you're going to be judged and if you get argumentative or snarky you will get the boot. not because the other people didn't respect your build, but that you didn't respect their time -AND your own build. META isn't a BAD thing, it is striving for perfection, that smooth quick run, adding people to friends lists, playing with them regularly breezing through easy content and working as a team in harder.... If you don't want to be a cog in that group dynamic you can be a circle, square or whatever on your own or with likeminded. NOONE is forcing you apart from you yourself and your inability to make friends in online games. But yeah, it's much easier to call it "haters" ...

@@AMolinaLamatta then when you're with friends and meta morons try to join or start their trash boot m.....do to tham what they do to you but at least say why as you do it, "we're booting you cus we respect individual loadouts and you don't!"

It's like bowling, as a kid it was a common activity with friends, now any bowling alley has mostly "league only" nights

Sweaty tryhards can take any fun recreational activity and make it annoying.

oh yeah..that's so true! I have often had this discussion too. For me it's still (after 30 years of gaming) about the experience IN THE games, not about achieving any goal. My goal is to experience not to achieve anything!

some (most) people just wanna be better than others (or better than most average) quickly.

Yup single player games are not exempt. When D3 launched players requested/demanded that inferno get nerfed, bc I guess they were losing sleep over not 100% it and moving on with their lives. Killing Diablo 3 times wasn't enough. It's never enough.

Lol yeah, back in 04 I was 14 and D2LOD was my first experience with that. People rushing the game then running Baal constantly, after that repeatedly running the countess or Mephisto or the necromancer. But that was nothing, because like half a year after getting into D2 online, I went to high school and became friends with competitive gamers with SS Brawl. I didn't realize people where that good at games. So right when online gaming blew up, I was all about single player games, mainly Morrowind att.

One friend, true Diablo fan quit Diablo 3 on the spot when he saw the auction house's effects. Moved to other similar games, but in general wrote Blizzard off. The other friend made money off the auction house to buy a new pc.

im 31 , and dude games back in the day was so much more fun , try hards were a thing or "campers" were a thing , now its all set up for campers and playing in a cheesy ass way ,

​@@jbjoker18it's these new generation kids it's really bad and getting worse ... Hired a kid the other day couldn't run a shovel

Bro just to let you know, you are probably not any worse than what you used to be bruddah I promise. Its just that the generations that inhabit video games are much more prone to cheating and don't care if its them actually doing things. I promise you bro the statistic is literally like 1 in 3 people are cheating.

Not as many hours to dedicate to something BUT you can still be extremely good if you put the work in if limited.

I can relate lol. Hey at least you can say you’re living your life. To me that’s what matters

I used to feel the same way cause when i was younger some of my selfworth was tied up to how good i was at games. Left that behind me and now i'm okay having a good life and mediocre gaming skills.

I just moved on to making art mostly. Not because of *online* gaming, but just naturally wantin' to do somethin' else.

Well yea… cause they were only there to watch him die…

Oooof

😢

So because he made it to lvl 47, he deserves lifetime viewership? Not how it works. Go back to the chalkboard and find another reason for people to click on your stream

@@alexv6213 oh I agree with you, if WoW HC was your entire platform then you were bound to lose. I simply just said it was sad to witness the extreme change in this person.

That one is not a streamer thing. It has always been the case that game/tournaments design the rules so that the top players/teams have an advantage.

Curious what a 0.1% player could add to a game that would ruin a casual gamers experience, genuinely what are you on about?

@@Temperans you cant design rules so top players have an advantage lol

Looking at you Destiny 2.

@@notscullytv Simple, systems that can only be barely cleared by the top 0.1% of players

I want to say I heard something similar when reading about SBMM. And I think it was from one of the Apex devs.

@@randypeterson6938 SBMM is a stupid concept ON PRINCIBLE. It assumes games are more fun when you are facing players of your own skill level. . . which isn't fun. Games are more fun when you are qued with fun opponents/teammates. Doesn't matter if they are better or worse than you. What matters is "how" they play the game. One of the bigger changes nintendo made to Mario Maker 2 is the ability to downvote levels. When you downvote levels, it makes it less likely for other players to deal with it. Now imagine that system implemented around random ques. "Do you want to que up with more players like this", a simple yes or no question. This gives the player a "Enjoyment based rating score". Downvote or upvote. The system keeps track of if you downvote more or upvote more and prioritizes the one you do less. If a guy who only downvotes players, their downvote rating is worth like less than 1% of what the downvote is worth of a person who only upvotes. The point of the system is to rate a player on how many people find them enjoyable or how many find them annoying, while also disregarding those that only vote one way. From there, it assigns a "score" or a "rating" to that player. . . not based on skill, but on how enjoyable they are. This "Enjoyment Based Match Making" system prioritizes people of similar enjoyment ratings. Meaning the people who are annoying get put in annoying lobbies and people are fun to play against get put in lobbies with other fun people to play against. So the sweats and the cheaters get the bad lobbies and the casuals who are just here to have fun get the good lobbies. How you treat your fellow players will get you karma that gets you worse or better lobbies. "+rep", THIS is how you make a good match making system: By making it via player recommendations and NOT based off of skill. Annoying players hurt the playerbase. If they quit cause they get bad lobbies, good.

@@Hadeks_Marow This system assumes that whatever game you are playing has a player base large enough that you can actually find a game with these "fun players" without the search times being way too long. I don't really understand people having an issue with sbmm on principle. In most situations people dont want to get gutterstomped even when they are playing casual instead of ranked. I could be the most friendly player in the world who doesnt chase metas on dota, but if i get matched against someone with less than 2k hours I will probably crush them and they will hate the experience. I think the main issue with sbmm is just when it detects rise in skill over too small a period of time. If a game is checking your skill over like 20 games then it should be able to make an informed decision on whether you are in the right skill bracket or not.

@@marklebury SBMM works for fighting games that are 1v1. But that's the ONLY time the systems works. As soon as there's a 3rd person, the system breaks down and fails to accurately depict each players capabilities. SBMM is based on the Elo Rating System designed by Arpad Elo. . . who made it. . . FOR CHESS TOURNAMENTS. It was NEVER designed for videogames NOR any form of system outside of a 1v1 and DEFINITELY not for a casual/enjoyable setting. That is one of the core components of the issue. It was not made for the medium it's used in and the problems because of such are self apparent. And even in the fighting game example, it does nothing in regards to "good players not trying". A user review would account for such a notion. SBMM and EBMM work on the same system, assigning a number to a player and finds players who are online within a similar number range to the player for the player to play against. The only difference is what that number represents and how that number was achieved. If no one likes getting curbstomped, then the curbstompper would naturally get downvoted and pushed to the bottom (so that curbstompers get put in matches with other curbstompers) and the people who joke around, meme, not take the game seriously and just have fun with it get pushed to the top with similar playstyles. The goal of such a system is to aim to emulate the type of experience of playing in private lobbies with your friends. You are NOT going to be as good as your friend. That's not what makes such a match enjoyable. What makes it enjoyable is playstyle and how seriously you take the game in relation to the other player. A casual does not want to play with/against a sweat. The social aspect with friends creates a "social game balance" which is the alternative to "developer implemented game balance" where, when you are with friends, the better player is naturally going to not try as hard as the worse player where both players choose to balance out the scales on their own instinctually. Once again, the goal of an EBMM system would be to try and promote and endorse that social game balance aspect as a means to emulate the experience of playing with friends. It achieves this by users naturally rewarding and punishing those who actively make the game a better or worse experience for them. And this much. . . can be attributed. . . with NO correlation to skill what-so-ever. That's because, unlike SBMM/ERS, an EBMM system is actually DESIGNED for videogames with multiple people in a match. It is not designed for rank-play though. That's where SBMM/ERS would have to stay unfortunately. When it comes to unranked ques on the other hand, the only people who don't get to have fun are the players making the game unfun.

I also liked information letsplays that can give you background information about something that happen in the game or a development story.

Oh, man. I fully agree with you. I've noticed that lately, I try not to watch any streams, guides, etc., at all, especially reviews. That's just another evil. I just understood that no one can suggest to me what I should play. After I finally understood it, oh boy... There are actually SO MANY different games that I really like. Now, all that I watch are let's plays. That's it. Nothing more. I play a game myself, and then I watch a let's play, to see what I missed, or how another person solves different problems I encounter through the walkthrough. The last game that I discovered for myself in that way is 7 Days to Die. The game was released 10 years ago. And everyone who I knew said that this game is garbage, even recently. But I tried it myself and hoooolyyy. I'm obsessed with it right now.

Right? Literally defeats everything about the game in my opinion… What happened to just enjoying a game for what it is… a “game”. They need to change the definition of “game” these days, cause ppl aren’t “gaming” they’re literally just “grinding”

Honestly, coming from experiencing both sides of this coin between casually enjoying a game and playing it almost as if its a competition (soft speedrun) (cause I do both depending on the game), just let them? You may not enjoy that style but they can. It's one thing when they hate doing it but they keep doing it cause they're addicted to the game, and it's another to actively diminish others by complaining about them when they're seeking their own form of enjoyment without affecting you.

@@plankbroI am a speedrunner. I have been placed relatively high on the world leaderboards in three NES games. I also played for one of my countries top two clans in Starcraft 2 and practiced 8 hours a day. This isn't about playing the game casually vs "competitively". This is the illusion of competitive gaming, often at the expense of the entire experience of the game.

@@Ymirheim That is how you feel about it, but to others there is no expense. I can sit through a 50+ hour Dark Souls playthrough no guides no wiki just using the coolest weapon I find without any desire for what is OP, and I can also spend 4 hours on a team builder website for a Pokemon game without any intention to PvP. This is solely so I can one shot gyms and random pokemon, which I find to be fun. My experience isn't ruined in either, and if I'm playing an MMORPG, I'm gonna be crunching numbers, looking up the meta cause I want to see those numbers skyrocket. It isn't off some shallow desire to be 'better than you', I just want to see my toon be at the best I can make it. There are extremes granted, like how some do it to show off to others and detest casuals and hate it when ppl dont play meta, and there is the other extreme side, where you find their style of gaming to be offensive to you.

​@@plankbroThis is not about everyone sitting down and figuring out which way they will enjoy the game the most and then doing that though. The problem with the always competitive metagaming culture is the opposite. It prevents people from being able to even conceive how they might enjoy the game the most. It's one thing to meticulously figure out which class and spec will do slightly more dps than all the others and play that because you get a genuine thrill out of having higher numbers than the rest. It is another to google the best class/spec and then pick that one because you're afraid that if you don't you won't find groups and raids. Or because you will feel like you are a worse player when everyone link the logs after raids. Most people who do this still convince themselves that they're doing it because they just love playing games competitively.

There are not competitive games/modes in games. If you play online game and you join MYTHIC raid, RANKED game... you better fucking play to win.

@@anonimowelwiatko4455 sweats love to smurf casual game modes to blow off steam, most casuals I know don't play ranked they play modes named things like "unrated" and "casual" and still get roflstomped, now all us old people play games like Ghost of Tsushima and Persona 5. A lot of my friends beg me to play games like Valorant and CS sometimes and when I cave I just feel like I'm donating my time and burning an evening for no reason other to placate them, but they play every night so I feel it's the only way I can spend time with them. I recognize the talent in the game though, it's just not what I would call fun from my side. After a few minutes of getting killed and not knowing why I alt tab to read an article or something while they finish out the round.

I lost a mw3 match bad to a lvl.455 six year old nit long ago.

I generally avoid anything that makes me play with tryhards.

No it doesnt. It becomes "No competitive multiplayer games are for you." You still have co-ops and single player games you can enjoy.

Exactly

"Who actually ends up downloading cheats." The people who are upset that others are better at the game than them. 😂

How many mods are you running in Fallout? Sounds kind of meta to me. Mods just work better in PvE where it's supported

your number 4 is often underrated I think. Back in the day there were no YT tutorials. I too catch myself looking up a guide when I fail multiple times. Only recently I try to be aware of that and withstand that behavior. Back in the day optins were much more limited. Try again an again over multiple days (Driver 1 - Garage). Visit a friend who is better or has better knowledge. Or buy a gaming magazine with tips and tricks ^^

Great point skill based matchmaking how does it work in battle royales. The idea of normal skill based matchmaking team vs team or 1v1 is to get you go a 50 percent win rate. With apex your accounting for 100 people of different levels is it a average rating but then surely it cant ever be a fair chance. Then you have the even more complex questions apex and other battle royales need to answer rating. Survial in battle royales simply should never be as effective as either killing or winning., Points need to be Last standing > Kills> time survived. So in apex you can have a problem because the gsme promotes ratting so much you have 0 reasons to learn positioning movement or gunplay

Your number 4 is really on point. I played baldurs gate 3 from release and unknowingly kept googling stuff like "how to complete a quest" or "best built for...". Because it was a new game there was no content for the stuff I was doing. Because of that my first playthrough was the most memorable. I didn't know what was ahead of me, I just tried something out and after some time I arrived at the right conclusion. I know its not the same comparing online gaming and single player but the concept still applies. People nowadays just copy the "meta" shit and everyone just becomes Buzz Lightyear from the toy shop scene thinking they are doing something unique while literally just copying experience of someone else. Sadly gaming is not about fun anymore, but rather achieving something that someone else has achieved.

Absolutely

But streaming is what made this sweaty disease spread.

​@@ceu160193RU-vid "spread" it well before live streaming was a thing.

True there was always that one guy in the lobby kicking ass. Now its like every other guy is on the same level. its nuts

People were bitching and only looking at DPS/numbers in wow way before streaming became popular tbh

@@AlanRedrew Because of how raids were made. Lack of numbers would result in party wipe and wasted time for many players.

They leave out the part where gameplay is rigged on most of these "triple a" fps games and they are getting boosted connections because they influence more people/money.

The worst part is a lot of them flat out suck and give wrong advice

I mean they get a lot of views and it's their job so just cause you find it annoying a lot of ppl watch it and it makes the creator good money

​@@gazb2740take your meds

@@gazb2740 or lobbies full of bots/low skill players, special undetectable cheats, the backing of major corporations and power players within the government. MOST major streamers have familial connections to very high up positions of power.. "influencer" is a powerful role and those who hold all the power understand this, its why someone like masongold.. i mean asmongold cant say whatever he wants

Arcades where cool back then because the local group of people you compete against where not the best in the world. Whenever I saw Korean esports I though it was neat to see gaming go more mainstream but I never thought it looked fun to be in.

And at that moment, the monkey paw curled one of its fingers.

True, same with all the kids trying to copy whatever popular streamers they see.

Halo CE was peak

the prime css days were my favorit days of multiplayer in my life.

Ur 27 rn arent you LOL