How To Prevent BMW M62tu 4.4l Timing Chain Guide Failure For Business Contact : Nathan's BMW Workshop Po Box 115 Altenburg Mo 63732 nathan.youtube@yahoo.com
at 108,000 on my 02 540i/6 the guides were visually cracked when I was replacing the timing cover gasket, If you factor that job in and save some cash your good. Do the oil seperator and vanos seals and the car is a heavy hitter considering it has more power to weight ratio than a E46 M3 and 1/3 the price. AND its 90% a M5 and way cheaper and probably a better daily driver. The M62tu is not a motor for sissies but it will make you a white wizard. A colder thermostat will not help you for oil temp still reaches normal temps. you just have to be willing to wrench. Parts are life time at FCP There is So much Intel on this car specifically cool dudes like Nathan spelling it out for us. Thank you brotha!
It is definitely worth doing! It’s such a wonderful car and well worth keeping and driving this incredible machine. All cars have there weak points! I would rather drive a beemer and do the repair so your good for another 150k. It’s equivalent to 4car payments or one mortgage payment. Come on it’s too good of a car not too. You can pay $2500 a month for your mortgage payment for 30 years but you second guessing a one time expense on a incredible car. Alternative Option is to join the dead souls of boring cars to live out there life of numb driving to the end of days! Let’s repair them and keep them running strong! Long live the M62TU.
My father had a 1999 540i sport wagon. The thing got to 270k miles, went through three transmissions, it had a Dinan stage two tune, that thing ripped hard, thing was a total beast, loved that car. We knew the timing chain guides had gone because you could hear things hitting, it wasn’t running happy, and I firmly believe that the valves and pistons were touching, that engine did not last much more than 90 miles after the CEL light initially came on
I've replaced several. Upgrading while your in there and using the German auto solutions timing kit.makes it easier. Nathan you always have good advise. Thanks bro
Good info, Nathan. Because I’m a glutton for punishment and I’ve already bought all the tools, I’m actively seeking more m62tu cars to wrench on. I figure if I can find them before they fail and buy right, I won’t take too big a hit. Or I’m in denial about my v8 bmw habit! Always learn something from your videos, thanks!
My 99 540i had the timing chains go out at like 150k. Vanos rebuilt several years ago. It’s a given to have to do these major maintenance jobs. Once you get them done though, they run like a dream
Thank you for the in depth explanation on these issues!! I might own a 740iL E38 / 540i before i find the right 750iL E38 that i will own for much longer time and now i know what to look out for.
You can do all the love$ care/maintenance in the world but there is NOTHING you can do to stop time.Time = plastic chain guides will get /are aleedy old and break( to replace them is $4000 canadian here in Toronto-more the car is worth) Sad.I am the current owner of a 2001 Bmw 740i)
@@epicon6 I know you can save a ton of money if you do the work yourself IF you have the skills ,the time and all tools($$$$$$$) necessary.And that is a very big IF.
I got the e39 535i v8 basically the same as 540 I just had the guides done and chain as it was rattling like mad. Now it’s smooth And all leaks fixed it’s a beaut. If you fix it soon as it rattles you will save it. If it jumps a tooth it’s game over
I have a 2002 540i and it has 114K on it and now that you say this I will definitely change it before its too late! I really appreciate your videos especially on the vehicles I have gives me a huge perspective on what to look for before the problem arise.
On my e38 my biggest issue was chain related noise after replacing them on a junkyard replacement engine. Setting the tension on the GAS timing tool I think is where I mess up. I first had it too loose and had the chain slapping around the covers and now I think I have it a little too tight.
Has BMW or any other manufacturer come up with redesigned guides or new materials that work better for replacement? Such a bad design. Catastrophic failure and hard to service. Glad mine is non vanos.
I disagree..... I have had 5 540i's over 300k all original timing components with no abnormal wear on the guides when inspected. And then I wake up....
i have the 2000e39 540i v8 vanos i had this car for around 13 years never had a problem with it at all and is my day a day runner love the car its briliand !!! a car can hold more than a life timeif you know how to care for the car and keep all the servicing on time then it will never brake !!!
Have X5 '03 4.4i, had it since 43k miles. At 125k took engine out, resealed it, fixed Vanos and new chain guides, etc. Now at 128k, runs like new! A bit of elbow grease required but not impossible. Fresh oil every 5k, it was super clean inside. These things are not that bad :-) EDIT: 01/082021. Car has been used as a daily since last August for my kids going to college (about 100 miles a day running up I-95). In the interim, the ABS module broke again (a replacement also turned out to be faulty, now on the fourth ABS module), the radiator started to leak badly at d/s tank, tension strut bushings needed replacing again, also the drive shaft boots needed replacing again, I have had to order a new key, the fuel pump broke and the front drive shaft splines let go. I am pretty much working through every possible failure mode these things are known for. On the flip side, engine and trans have been performing great. Now at 137k miles. Just strapped new winter tires on, it performed great in the snow storm last week, and the brakes rotors and pads are due for refresh as well. So yeah, the maintenance is 1000-1500 a year in parts, if you can't DIY this stuff, add another 100% to that number in labor charges.
Question please help...doing timing on 4.4...i manual crank the engine i can see oil pushing up on pass side. Which is lubing up the the cam etc...but the driver side nothing is coming up...thats the side im getting the cam and vanos codes for
M62 is a good motor. It's reputation imo is hampered by the nightmare issues brought forth by the M60, which were later revisited by the N62. So folks generalize it into that pool of failure items. It's not without its shortcomings. I personally prefer an inline 6 like the M52/M50, but if you want V8 power and sound, the M62 is a solid offering.
My 540it went exactly as Nathan describes at 87k. For anyone thinking, if only the oil was changed regularly and the tensioner was replaced, this would not happen, I can say with 100% certainty they were not enough to keep my 25 year old M62TU going. Managed to get it back to the garage before the derail. Took it apart, the inside cover looked exactly as Nathan showed. Plastic and metal everywhere. But I took a chance, got the GAS timing tools, and everything else needed. Watched Nathan's videos a bunch of times and went for it. I'm really happy to share that following Nathan's videos and closely following the GAS instructions my 540 is now running better than it has been in a very-very long time. Also a big thanks to George at Vanosman for the rebuild of my vanos units. Its the one part of the job that I did not want to mess with. So my experience is that if the chain has not jumped, the engine/car is well worth the attempt to replace the guides, chains, tensioners, check valves, etc. Thanks alot Nathan. And yes I did have a smile on my face when I had to pull the covers off a second time to get the timining perfect on 5-8, but all good now.
I did mine on X5 4.6is 4 years ago watching Nathan’s videos, though I am not a mechanic )) then transmission went out 3 month later.And it’s been garaged ever since.
Hello Nathan, I have a question for you, would I be able to swap a N62 from 2006 bmw x5 into a 2001 bmw x5 that has M62tu. Without swapping out the ecu. What would I need to interchange to make the engine compatible with my 20001 bmw x5 4.4l
Nathan do you use this unit on the S62 M5 engine as well or the M5 engine? I have just found that the company still makes and sells these and yes I’m buying it straight from who you said.German Auto Solutions
Nathan.... we know the M62tu has its issues.... but what is your take on the S62 from the 00-03 BMW M5.... i was surprised you didn't mention that on your "bimmers to buy in 2020" .... do you think this motor inherently has the same issues as M62 since it was derived from it?
Hey Nathan. Great Video! I'm a little bit confused. I was under the impression that BMW had a recall in 2013 which fixed the failing timing guides. Are you saying the recall didn't fix the issue. Or perhaps I'm mistaken and there was never any real fix for that part.
What happened to mine is the chain tensioner seized up from charred oil . So the chain starts flapping around the U-guide and chatters the plastic lining there. Tensioner and U-guide had to be replaced, oil pick up and oil pan cleaned out. The most important is, to keep this from happening the tensioner needs to be inspected and cleaned or replaced regularly and oil changes need to be frequent.
What I see repeatedly is engines with 5000 mile oil service intervals go much greater distance before these issues surface. The silicon (dust not large enough for air or oil filter capture) and fuel dilution increases with time in engine regardless of how much you spend on special oils. Not just BMW engines either. Longer oil service does in valve stem seals much sooner. The plastic guide liners seem to not go brittle so soon (I’m in TX..hot here) and the guide wear grooves can be almost non-existent at 100 k + mile oil leak or other engine open repairs. I can’t get many owners to get onboard with it, they will keep me busy over time.....
I bought that $600 540i. Then spent $235 to get a small brake line replaced at the ABS unit. Then spent $840 to get the *WATER-COOLED* alternator replaced. I paid an indy shop to do the work because there was NO WAY I was going to tear into a BMW having no knowledge of them. Now that it's not running and been collecting dust for a while, it's not as intimidating. Not sure what the issue is yet, though it could very well be the timing chain guides. May also be cam position sensors. I think I'm just going to do a complete rebuild myself, apart from any necessary machine shop work. I don't think anyone should be afraid of these cars, but like Clint Eastwood said "A man's got to know his limits." I like to think I have a lot of tools for a reason.
Drop your oil pan and you'll get a clear picture if the guides have failed, the plastic will be waiting for you. Check your oil pump bolts while you're there as they tend to get loose. Adjust oil pump chain if needed.
Hello. I have an 2004 540i she started to smoke on start up, after that she runs fine. Now she will not run. Fuel pump, I believe. Smoking pcv?.? Or worse. I know I have not given you much to go on, please any Ideas? Thanks
Advice needed......have a M62TU in my 2001 e38. I replaced the timing chain guides, bottom and top guides, pulled the cams, checked each lifter.....all were compressed and stuck. Removed and cleaned each one to make lifter pistons work. Replaced the cams, torqued everything to correct ft. lbs. Set the timing, put everything back to together, fresh fluids, and it started right up. No codes thrown, but now it ticks even louder now than when the old guides were in it.
Hi I watch you but if I can ask you can I remove the timing chain cover on 4.4 L BMW N63 with out removing the head or oil pan please let me know it is my first job on this Eng.
Replaced my tensioner this past weekend. Got it from ECS tuning. The old unit was definitely weaker and not holding it's weight. Didn't have or wasn't getting any slap on the cover. I called Jeff at Monterey Motorworks in Monterey, CA out of curiosity to get his rate...$3500! Yowsers! 2000 540i / 205k
Remove the old tensioner, open it, pull out the spring inside, and replace it with a new slightly longer and stronger spring that you can buy from your local hardware store. It costs exactly 50 cents. Then reinstall the tensioner. I do it yearly, and I have 197 K miles on the original intact timing chain guides (2001 540i E39).
I had a beautiful 2001 E39 540i with 162000 miles and it had a slap when idling but not metal yet. Family driver 9/10 body and interior, but could not invest personal time to repair. No shop, special tools, lift and time. $2500 on trade in, still makes me sick it had to go this way. Also, are the cylinders rebuildable? The unknowns and possible pile of junk was the alternative. ick . . . . Thanks for the overview!!
I pulled my oil pan when I bought my 03 540i m sport and I didn't see any plastic at the bottom. So I assume my guides are fine, mine has 140k. I will buy a scope and inspect further
Replaced mine with a 88C thermostat. Takes alot of stress off cooling system plastics, hoses, timing guide plastics, reduced cooling system pressure not to mention increses longevity of the water cooled alternator. 2002 X5 second owner 4.4 lt. 235,000 klm no start up noises. Change oil twice a year , 10W/40 before season extremes regardless of klm.
@@123hoffie I really believe we are on to the real design issue here. It also explains why the Euro cars (which never had the hot emissions thermo) have fewer issues. If you look closely at the timing guide design, it really isn't different than most others and the materials are the same. Even the mighty Merc M119, argued by many to be the best v8 ever made, has a similar lower guide set- and they can go 500k+. It also probably explains the broken CCV cyclone, expansion tanks, and many other temp related issues. Not to mention the car just runs a lot better with no pinging or knocking.
If the guides are good, just replace the hydraulic tensioner as preventative maintenance and do oil change every year/10K miles. If you want to maintain trouble free cooling, prolong plastics and gaskets etc. swap out the 105+ thermostat with one that opens around 90 degrees (celsius). Beisan sells a seal kits to the M62TU vanos. I did mine when I checked the guides and then I timed it after with Chinese timing kit ;)
Hello I have a problem with my E53 V8 210kw 2001 year. If I have the engine in phase and then take the blockages from the vanos, the engine misaligns. What can be the reason? Kind regards
Thanks for this video! I wish it came out before i thought I got a stellar deal on a $600 540i and am now 2k deep in parts LMAO all that work to not have an m5
I agree with results and damage if not done. I have exception with some potential buyer telling me to change it out like it's a preventative maintenance item. Let me explain I've had 8 of these old 7 series cars and the last one I sold I had valve covers ty rods, done and it ran perfect with out engine lights on. It has 174K on it and beautiful new headliner and no exterior/interior work needed. In my mind its worth $2,300 and some guy comes buy and asks me if I've changed the timing chain. I said no It's not a preventative maintenance item. I still say it's a used car ?lol
Chain tension keeps the poorly designed guides from literally falling apart. High rpm causes slack on the main chain, allowing the plastic portions of the guide to lift off the rail slightly and be slammed back against the rail, breaking them.
I really can't understand how he is talking about this like it ruins the car. The entire kit, minus any special tools, is $510 on FCP Euro... I own an E39 M5 with the S62 which also has this problem but is supposedly not as frequent due to the S62 utilizing a dual row timing chain rather than a single row and the colder 79C thermostat. Our kit is about twice the price but we still don't freak out about it. It's a known issue, pay attention and simply replace it at the very first signs of failure. Assuming you do that you shouldn't have to deal with tons of debris in the engine destroying everything else. I'm not sure how you can compare the issue of chain guide failure to the mountain of issues the E60 M5 has and say the E60 is fixable in comparison...
Exactly, this video is for your regular dork wanting a V8 sedan but not forking up the extra dough for a M5 and just driving until they in fail stop mode. The Key factor is PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE and if you do your homework, order from FCP lifetime and not scared to wrench these cars are very reliable and sexy.
I have a guy in central Jersey that’s quoted me $2500 to do the timing chain guides on my 97 540i, not sure if I really want to, but I love the car and want to keep it as long as I can, so I might just do that
@@nwabuezeozuzu6370 i did it, and then i sold the car, but there is no way to prevent the guide failure, it's inevitable, on every M62, it will happen eventually
@andrewmattera6205 well I have to prepare for it. At 242k km and I do not know if any of the previous owners have worked on the timing chain guides or tensioner. Motor sounds and drives though 😀
The amount you pay for the car is irrelevant to the cost required to maintain it. I bought my '03 X5 with a bad trans for $2400. I spent $4700 getting the transmission rebuilt, then a few years later, $5000 on a bunch of engine work including the timing chain guides (as preventative maintenance), and the last big expense was $2000 on an ABS module. Compared to the cost of a new X5, which is an even worse pig from a maintenance perspective than my '03, I still got a pretty good deal. That being said, if I had unlimited time, I'd love to swap out the BMW engine and ZF trans for GM running gear, which would give me the same performance, but would certainly be stronger, more robust, and require less maintenance.
I have that m62tu and already had the timing guides replaced. Definitely not a collectors car. I've kept it up but if the guides go out again...fk it I am parting it out.
Do N62 engines have a similar problem? I know there are two instead of one long chain. My X5 4.8iS is at 160K miles... when should I expect this to happen to me?
$2000 on e38 guides is cheaper than trying to live with a shitty styled other car.... e38s/39s are worth the extra love because there never has been a better styled sedan yet...
Mileage and year doesn’t matter. Its easily a 20-26 hour job. The kit costs around $800 & most mechanics charge per hour. I was quoted $3,700 and that was with me already having the timing chain kit
That photo of the timing cover was my cover, almost ate right through to the water pump. Cost me $1000 to fix including all the tools. I used the chinese timing set and havent had an issue but maybe I got a good one?
I've replaced guides on over 20 cars, and I've got both the Chinese and GAS timing sets and they align exactly the same. We've got 3 E38's in the driveway all with the M62TU engine and they're all getting a set of new tensioners, chains and guides for their 20th birthdays and that should keep them happy for another 20 years.
A very few viewers have gotten Chinese timing tools that worked , but 99% of them you will never get to work right , as you can see the play in the mounting holes for the vanos jigs ,which means no way they will get the timing close enough to turn the engine light out for timing over advanced, this is common knowledge so I’m not sure how you are the only person in the world that these worked for , but like I said not impossible to work but extremely unlikely
@@NathansBMWWorkshop maybe I got lucky? And got a good one. I really don't know. Or maybe they changed the design. Best bmw channel. Thanks for the videos.
@@scuderiazane4723 I got it done, it certainly a PITA to this this kind of work...but you will learn a lot about the engine...specially the X5 v8 engine.
Nathan, You concentrate on the guides but what about the timing chains? Should they (all 3) be replaced at the same time as the guides? Thx for your reply and the very useful videos that you produce.
i’d imagine they’d go out a little later than the guilds but if the guides have totally failed and it’s metal on metal friction then they’d prob go out at the same time
Hurts to hear this because I know this is the problem with my 03 540i. I have an automatic and Ive fixed or replaced everything else. Recently I lost power in drive at low rpm. Car use to be torquey but now it hiccups before it kicks into gear. Has anyone developed a redesigned for these guides we can put in the 540i that doesn’t break every 150k miles? How come they just didn’t put a chain cog wheel there instead of chain guides? Smh Also are there any good new or old V8 engine swaps by BMW for the E39 540i?
Run a cooler thermostat and your guides will last a lot longer. Also change your oil early and often. Your plastics and rubber seals will last a lot longer
Mine went at 150k on my 01 X5 4.4 and it cost me £2100 to have repaired with bmw parts. That was done by a bmw specialist with a 2 year warranty. That was 5 yrs ago.
Well said, fix the front and bent valves but all those cuttings are all over the engine and oil ways. It will run for a short time but the problem will be right around the corner.
Is it possible that the US cars run hotter to meet emissions standards and therefore the guides are more at risk for succumbing to heat degradation and failure? Perhaps that is why the problem is not known in Europe?
I thought the title of the video was to show me how to PREVENT the failure. I guess the gist was to purchase a pre-Vanos engine and then rebuild the guides and drives.
This was somewhat credible until he said an E60 M5 was more of a fixable/better car! I would rather replace some chain guides than the ROD BEARINGS that are notoriously thin on that M5. Also what about the M5 SMG transmission pump that is anywhere from $3,500-$4,500 just for the part? And those are both things that WILL fail. And I rebuilt my VANOS with a seal kit on my E39 540 for around $60. While I had my 540 torn down I replaced the valley pan, rebuilt the cooling system, new gaskets all the way around and I spent around $400 total. Runs like a champ now!
Nothing in a BMW V8 from 2013-2019 is worth it. They develop an oil leak under the intake manifold that is almost unserviceable due to location and cost. Stay with the older V8’s or the in-line 6.
