Hyundai Elantra N vs. FL5 Honda Civic Type R - POV Modified Comparison

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Filmed ‪@M1Concourse‬
Elantra N - 1:17.47
Type R - 1:17.42
2022 Hyundai Elantra N Modifications:
-SXTH Element tune
-SXTH Element catted downpipe
-SXTH Element Intercooler
-Powerflex Engine/Trans inserts
-Prototype rear motor mount
-CNC'd shifter bushings
Chassis:
-Alignemnt bits (bolts, arms)
-Stock suspension
-Stock Pads/Rotors
-18x9.5 ET45 WedsSport SA25R w/ 265/35/18 RE71RS
OEM Parts:
-N Performance steering wheel
-N Performance shift boot
-ROW rear vent retrofit
2023 Honda Civic Type R:
-Oem 19x9.5 wheels w/265/30R19 Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 Tires
-PRL 2023+ Honda Civic Type-R FL5 Rear Engine Mount Upgrade
-Brakes: Paragon R5 PBP370 Brake Pads (front), P3 PBP1557 Brake Pads (rear), Paragon PPS370 Titanium Brake Pad Shims (front), Paragon PPS1557 Anti-squeal Shims (rear).
-PRL Civic Type-R FL5 Replacement Panel Air Filter
-Acura Integra ITS ADS Unit - Acura part number 39381-31M-A03
-MRT 2023+ Honda Civic Type R FL5 Sport Touring Mid Pipe: www.shopmrt.com/2023-Honda-Ci...
Get 10% off on your order from MRT Performance with the code "THETOPHER"
-Disabled active sound control
-315 horsepower @ 6500 rpm, 310 lb-ft of torque from 2600 to 4000 rpm
-6-Speed Manual Transmission
-Curb weight: 3188 lbs
-MPG: 22 City / 28 Highway
-MSRP: $44,390
0:00 Walkaround
5:10 Elantra N laps
12:52 Debrief
15:55 Type R laps
25:57 Debrief 2
34:34 Elantra N in SCCA Time Trials
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The audio in this video was recorded with in-ear binaural microphones, headphones are highly recommended!
Here's the equipment I use (affiliate links, commission earned on sales):
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-Connected to & powered by the Zoom H2n recorder amzn.to/2pQqVkq
-Don't forget the Hat Clip mount for that perfect POV angle: amzn.to/2GW7nmd
-The best place to get tires: bit.ly/2JyRg3j
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Thanks for watching!

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Опубликовано:

11 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 184

@boots_n_coots 12 дней назад

Astonishing how far FWD sport sedans have come. Such fun on both track and street! Thanks Topher, good video.

@brhardi48326 12 дней назад

The Elantra N is an awesome car. The Type R is a special car. If you have the money go for the Type R or even the ITS. If not, grab the Elantra and no matter which you choose you'll be extremely happy. Yes ive driven all 3 multiple times. I chose the type R but everyone has different preferences and budgets. The fact that we have the Golf R, GTI, Type R/ Type S, Si, Elantra N, GR Corolla, WRX, etc to choose from right now is pretty cool.

@vjdfl5 12 дней назад

Totally. Nobody will be disappointed with any of the choices. I've owned the N and now the Type R and both are a blast. I wouldn't trade back though

@Sayu2x 12 дней назад

I would love to own both. Best priced DCT from the elantra and have the best affordable manual via fl5.

@KaxEdit 12 дней назад

A type r is embarrassing I dreamed of one when I was 10 😂

@NorthKoreasSon 12 дней назад

@KaxEdit your previous comments show that you're still 10

@shuolangliu304 12 дней назад

How would you choose between a fl5 and gr Corolla

@AngryColt 12 дней назад

The collab I didn’t know was gonna happen but we needed

@pichkari1632 12 дней назад

The elantra n owner is such a cool guy. He knows his shit. Respect. Both were great but for some reason i prefer elantra N more.

@maximus9401 12 дней назад

The children arguing about which car is better are the toxic part of car culture. Like come on do something better with your life. They're cars made by someone else that you can choose to buy with money (or not), they don't have to be your personality

@antp8462 12 дней назад

@BrodeyDoverosx 12 дней назад

And they’re both amazing cars.

@dubiousmike 12 дней назад

Our Elantra N has been killing most CTRs at Gridlife and Superlap Battle on the West Coast. Those CTRs are far more horsepower, big aero and much wider tires. From a daily driving perspective, go with what you want. You will be happy with either. For the track, we’re happy to be killing it. Sub 2 Buttonwillow. Sub 1:30 at Big Willow. 1st place street class at Gridlife Time Attack Big Willow and hold the record for the fastest Gridlife Time Attack Big Willow FWD car so far.

@gabed6686 12 дней назад

Is this the one that got a 1:40.8 at laguna seca?

@dubiousmike 12 дней назад

@@gabed6686 yeah. And that was without an ecu tune.

@Justin-lc1xz 10 дней назад

Too bad it looks so incredibly ugly.

@27Zangle 9 дней назад

@@Justin-lc1xz I thought the same but it has really grown on me.

@gabed6686 7 дней назад

@@Justin-lc1xz the R looks like an accord

@grahmdoughty 12 дней назад

As someone who owns an FL5 Type R (and has owned 2 ENs), I would probably buy an EN if my primary purpose was tracking the car. Less expensive, better stock cooling, and I'd be less upset about rock chips and dings. As a daily the EN is killer too, but for me the hatchback + transmission + looks + resale make the Type R worth the extra $

@ZONE3965 12 дней назад

The Ns feel like underdogs. It must be fun surprising others at track events.

@JorgeCabrera-zh7yr 12 дней назад

@@ZONE3965 I surprise people all of the time on the streets with my VN fbo EN turbo swap especially the v8s

@pvtcmyers87 12 дней назад

Love the Elantra N such a performance bargain.

@ryanb.4994 11 дней назад

What a great time to be into attainable and fun to drive cars! This era reminds me very much of the late 90’s early 2000’s. I recently had to replace a modified 19’ VA WRX due to a tree falling across the roof, and the shopping experience was FUN! I cross shopped everything that checked off my boxes for a manual transmission, 4 door, performance oriented daily driver with cargo space and room for 4 adults if needed. The more expensive option won due to a variety of factors, and after test driving or disqualifying because of “interior cheapness or lack of rear seat comfort” I decided on the 24’ Integra S. So many great choices for all budgets and driver engagement preferences! Enjoy this special time.

@turbobros_online1561 12 дней назад

Awesome! This has been much anticipated by me to see another direct comparison like this.

@thescorpioo6024 12 дней назад

Loveeee it when the OG topher drops a vid

@gvandiv1 12 дней назад

I enjoyed the review, great job overall. The screen shot of the settings in the EN said the eLSD was in Normal not sport and the ESC was also in Normal and not sport nor off. No problem but there is a lot of control left that wasn’t explored. The comments about feeling that eLSD more in the EN was definitely due to the settings. I have an EN and run it on track every week. It is pretty impressive for the money, and stock it is covered under 10 yr warranty if left stock. I changed mounts, pads, brake fluid and those weak points let it work big tracks

@jessicaphoenix1312 12 дней назад

I love how clean the car is. I love how clean it is literally and how clean it looks. People could learn something by seeing how people like Will cares for his cars.

@ronalddimitri2477 12 дней назад

The N's lsd really makes it feel like an awd car out of the corners when i drove it. i was very impressed

@BrodeyDoverosx 12 дней назад

To be fair, that’s every car with an LSD. Getting a diff in my Abarth gave me crazy grip, it made me seriously wonder why they don’t just include it in the car from the factory.

@shamalabadingdong 11 дней назад

@@BrodeyDoverosx there is a pretty significant difference between a clutch pack e-lsd and a traditional LSD though. But I agree that both are huge improvements over open diff

@justinbecker4772 4 дня назад

Yeah, the N diff is actively shunting power to the outside wheel, it feels way different to a mechanical lsd

@nesch8423 12 дней назад

Was waiting on this one

@mharro88 12 дней назад

Honestly the N is more fun to drive

@shamalabadingdong 12 дней назад

Pretty good laps. A bit hard to do a direct comparison of lap times when the EN is making more power, while the type r has a significant braking advantage with Paragon pads. Still great to see and a fun watch

@RenshoYT 11 дней назад

Im a very happy owner of a FL5 Type R, but in a world where the FL5 or FK8 didn't exist I would gladly own an Elantra N. Full credit to Hyundai for what they've done with the N lineup.

@hungo7720 12 дней назад

I have long craved for a Honda Civic Type R race track video from the Topher. Here it comes!

@johnmac609 12 дней назад

that really stepped out at 7:10 or so... it was only like 50 mph.

@TheTopher 12 дней назад

that was a moment lol...you can see halfway through I remembered, "oh yeah, floor it!"

@juliansutton5819 12 дней назад

I just bought an Elantra N, and basically was sold through some of your videos. The car is seriously undervalued. I got the DCT, because I already own a Miata. Which I was watching Patty’s Miata videos because I wanted to build mine like his. Well life changed, I bought the Elantra. If you use Octane Learning, which is a pain it is incredibly fast for stock. You could tune, but that’s not stock. I do drive my Miata more, simply because I can keep it a long time and keep it in good condition.

@erikhanes9491 12 дней назад

The DCT is the better transmission

@juiceton1029 12 дней назад

Any plans to review the 24 EN? Not much has changed but still curious your thoughts. Your video helped convince me to purchase a 23 EN last year and I love it Awesome video btw, love seeing your Type R

@TheTopher 12 дней назад

Yep, we’re going to try to get one in this summer 👍

@blackgold754 12 дней назад

@@TheTophercould u also review 24 sonata hybrid limited?

@mharro88 12 дней назад

No difference.

@turbobros_online1561 12 дней назад

Idk if a CT4V blackwing is really a natural progression for everyone. They cost as much as 2 Elantra N. But I certainly wish I could justify buying one lol. My retirement account isn't fat enough yet.

@miraclemiler71 12 дней назад

@TheTopher slightly off topic but is that an Omega Speedmaster moonwatch on your wrist?

@19hundoc47 12 дней назад

I’ve owned a couple Type Rs and I have an Elantra N now. The EN is an amazing car, the CTR is better sure but not by much! I love both, hard to argue with the EN for the price

@dominicanstig5196 12 дней назад

Saw a video on a track prepped new GTI, wonder how it compares to these two.

@godzilla7391 10 дней назад

As far as feeling like your sitting high in the seat, did you push the lever up and down on the left, to adjust seat height? Not sure if you did that, but i have to everytime i get in it after my wife drives it, cause she adjusts it to sit higher

@vincechii6958 10 дней назад

The type r's first mod is 10k markup

@NorthKoreasSon 12 дней назад

How would a base 718 manual compare to the type r?

@curtfox91 12 дней назад

Love my Veloster N just need a Miata to go along with it in the Stable.

@Slow370Z 12 дней назад

Can you do one as well with the FK8?

@piskooooo 12 дней назад

i want to see you drive a modded veloster n next!!!

@Stewi74 11 дней назад

Honda Civic Type R 😍 👍

@30hours51 12 дней назад

Elantra N is great, Type R is also great but a lot more special with better driver feelings Savageese, topher, tedward, all bought a CTR as well

@vjdfl5 12 дней назад

Joe Raiti too!

@spathotan 12 дней назад

I think 8 times out of 10, I would buy the N. Use the roughly $13,000 you saved to improve the mounts on the N, sticky tires and buy a beater for a daily.

@ebbonrogers9834 12 дней назад

The stock tires on the N are super sticky. Those Michelen Pilot Sport 4s are nuts.

@30hours51 12 дней назад

@@ebbonrogers9834type R comes with those too so not rlly a comparison

@ebbonrogers9834 12 дней назад

@@30hours51 I'm aware. He just said he would use the 13,000 price difference for sticky tires.

@paulklp8262 12 дней назад

The N is a dailyable car. The Type R is something best kept in a garage for resale value preservation.

@josedusol 12 дней назад

@@paulklp8262Bullshit, ctrs are widely know for being dailables

@Sayu2x 12 дней назад

Weds wheel supremacy

@EN-sw8es 11 дней назад

That one wheel spin out of the corner is ashame. For honda

@TheUnreadableUser 12 дней назад

Topher pushing the hell out of two performance hot hatches? Oh yeah. I love this video.

@sirRoboliver 12 дней назад

I would love to see some modded GR Corolla track stuff too!

@SouthFloridacarshows 12 дней назад

I daily my EN and my FL5 is for shows or weekend drives.

@hs5942 12 дней назад

future kids will drool over these and think this was the peak FWD affordability era

@jamesrather1510 12 дней назад

I think that era was actually about 10-15 years ago, in the days of Cobalt SSs and Mazdaspeeds. The current crop are not that affordable anymore

@ShaiyanHossain 12 дней назад

@@hs5942 future kids wont be able to afford a toy version of these let alone a real car

@paulklp8262 12 дней назад

Accounting for inflation and considering the power these things make they're cheaper than older hot hatches. But yeah, future kids won't be able to afford future hot hatches.

@henrychang1056 12 дней назад

Did those wheels fit on the Elantra N with everything else stock? Or did he do things like camber bolts?

@williamrori1274 9 дней назад

For 18x9.5 ET45 I'd recommend front camber bolts (maxed).

@camberr3975 12 дней назад

now having driven a modified manual n and seeing its potential, which transmission would you take manual or dct?

@erikhanes9491 12 дней назад

DCT is the faster of the 2. I am sure most will say , but manual is more fun.

@Tifosi5716 11 дней назад

I own a 23 manual EN, and wish to improve the shifter feel. Would you mind explain a bit more of what the car has done regards to that? What bushing or mount do I need to change and add? Thank you so much!

@ZONE3965 10 дней назад

Change the transmission bracket bushings and replace the bottom trans mount. Both very cheap and easy to do.

@Tifosi5716 10 дней назад

@@ZONE3965 any advise of what brand to buy? Or where to purchase?

@ZONE3965 10 дней назад

@@Tifosi5716 I got the boomba trans bracket bushings and the powerflex purple lower mount bushings. There's videos on YT on how to replace both .

@Tifosi5716 10 дней назад

@@ZONE3965 I see! Really appreciate that my friend :) Boomba transmission bracket bushings, and powerflex purple lower mount bushings (for engine? Or trans?)

@btchidz 12 дней назад

I’ve been looking for Will, only saw him a couple of time on the Patty Boy channel. Does he have his own Elantra n channel?

@williamrori1274 12 дней назад

I do not, I hate being on Camera lolol

@btchidz 12 дней назад

@@williamrori1274 lol I feel you man. Great stuff though, keep up the good work. Looking to get an Elantra in the next year or so, will definitely be looking back at your mods videos etc.

@williamrori1274 12 дней назад

@@btchidz You can't go wrong with them man. They make crazy good power and are just such a good driver's car for the money

@btchidz 12 дней назад

@@williamrori1274 Yes for sure. I own a Kia Forte Gt right now, it’s kinda fun, but I can just tell then Elantra N is just wayyy better. Thank you for the response man and stay safe.

@commentmancommentman1658 12 дней назад

@@williamrori1274so sad you selling the N but im happy at the same time you upgrading.

@waliedz646 11 дней назад

You should do Acura type S versus Type R

@orangejuice-xi3gt 12 дней назад

Why does it feel like he’s trying so much harder in the Type R? Lots of steering corrections and tire screeching. Elantra N “hot laps” look like a Sunday cruise in comparison

@Sayu2x 12 дней назад

Not his car.

@Newyen6MT 12 дней назад

Definitely more of a raw experience.

@30hours51 12 дней назад

Cuz he owns the type R so he’s more familiar

@user-bd9lw9jp9t 10 дней назад

i love hyundai elantra N

@user-mn2ju7tv8f 12 дней назад

The F1 style lights on the speedo in the Type R 😍😍😍

@bicicaptura 8 дней назад

As a first manual car what is the better pick ? Gr86 or Elantra N ?

@ZONE3965 6 дней назад

The N would be easier. It has rev matching , hill assist, and the ECU applies extra throttle on take off to help you take off from a dead stop.

@AlexIsUber 9 дней назад

Price point is wild

@chrissimmons9969 12 дней назад

I thought you totally disable traction control without doing the pedal dance in the CTR as long as you are in +R mode?

@TheTopher 12 дней назад

There's still a bit of rear pad drag around corners in +R mode, unfortunately.

@chrissimmons9969 12 дней назад

@@TheTopher after I commented I looked it up and read that.

@oraclemiata845 12 дней назад

I’d like to see you track a Kona N on a short track.

@justinbecker4772 4 дня назад

Wouldnt that high-flow cat knock the elantra out of scca time trial street class?

@williamrori1274 День назад

I run T3 now, unsure if that part made it into the video. But yes, I've been running Tuner class since I've had the downpipe.

@Shay-eo5kp 11 дней назад

In your debrief 2 part you mentioned the GR/BRZ as car that need to do some mods in order to be track worthy. Well isn’t the ND3 even more so considering the stock suspension isn’t suited for track at all?

@williamrori1274 День назад

Well the things for the GR/BRZ are more so that you don't explode the engine, or brake fade into a wall. The ND2/3 Miata just has soft suspension haha - not optimal, but obviously not "required" for track use.

@Sonic_1000 12 дней назад

Love both the N with a DCT is faster 0-150-0 and 10k dollars cheaper. Type R tax is crazy

@vjdfl5 12 дней назад

Yeah but you have to take into account how much cheaper Hyundai produces their cars for. They own and make all of their material and steel production, their own shipping, etc. HYundai will always be able to undercut the competition with that. They also took the base elantra body and put on some side skirts and a wing. The Honda only shares front doors and a roof with the civic. The interior quality and overall refinement are also night and day. Even things like the aluminum hood vs the heavy steel one on the Hyundai. The Elantra would be pushing close to the CTR price if they put a custom wide body kit, 265 wheels, brembos and upgraded all of the materials. You really cant beat the price of the elantra, but the Civic isn't really that bad when you think about the extra stuff that got put into it. Plus the resale difference alone is pretty big. My 22 EN with 45k miles KBBd for 21-24 when I went to trade it in. That's a HUGE loss in just under 2 years. Can barely find a 2017 CTR for MSRP

@30hours51 12 дней назад

@@vjdfl5u r arguing with someone who uses 0-150-0 as a metric 😂 don’t need to try this hard Monkey think monkey do, they buy cars for straight line numbers but in reality they are both great cars and I prefer the type R

@Sonic_1000 11 дней назад

@@vjdfl5 I don't buy cars to enjoy based on a 2 year loss. I'm not a dealer. The Type R is not worth 46k plus a 10k market adjustment. My 21 Supra 3.0 was 46 certified with 6k miles and blows them away in every single category. As well as my 20 Camaro SS 1LE. I've owned many imports. S2000, FD, Z turbo. So I'm not biased but over 50k for 230whp is goofy.

@vjdfl5 11 дней назад

@Sonic_1000 lol nobody said anybody bought it for the good resale. It's just a bonus. Resale also is part of value, so you cant pretend to care about value and disregard resale lol. Weird how it's rated number 1 by every publication and beat out the elantra every single time they've been compared if it wasn't worth the money lmfao

@Sonic_1000 11 дней назад

@@vjdfl5 If you think it's worth 10 to 15k more than an Elantra N that's a fanboy issue. The slightly used market has way better options. But I guess V6 Camaro performance for over 50k is cool 👌

@omarfaisal9201 12 дней назад

Can a GT500 or the Z06, since they’re both the most American track-focused cars nowadays, make a sub minute lap in that track?

@TranceFur 12 дней назад

Nope, not even close. They run about a 1:10 lap time. The overall record is 59.73 seconds, set by a full-on race car. m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qBYsIgn3eaE.html

@Sayu2x 11 дней назад

You forgot the zl1 le

@omarfaisal9201 11 дней назад

@@Sayu2x yeah, I’m sorry

@shauncampbell969 12 дней назад

FIRST: Shaun🦉 of NYC🗽

@gryphon123456 12 дней назад

Well for the experience of tracking I’d still rather a rear wheel drive but these are great cars.

@brhardi48326 12 дней назад

I used to agree with you. These two cars are insane though.

@EN-sw8es 11 дней назад

I will take EN ALL DAY❤

@JFlogerzi 7 дней назад

CSG pads is all you need in the N

@williamrori1274 День назад

Oh I have track-pads. This video was taken WAY earlier in the year and unfortunately I didn't have the car fully ready when he texted me.

@danny2607 6 дней назад

Love N performance but not the look and size of the EN. I’d still prefer the VN.

@c0348whn 11 дней назад

PATTY COLLAB

@importenthusiastchannel 12 дней назад

The dct would be better for the track for the n

@Marbind 10 дней назад

Weights more plus has a heavy sunroof that increases the center of gravity. Two things that hurt agility.

@EN-sw8es 11 дней назад

Now after that tune the EN AND CTR WITH SAME BOOST!

@vmaxauto 8 дней назад

Hopefully Will can chime in. If his wheel width theory is correct does it make this test that TireRack conducted inherently flawed? They didn't speak much about tire pressures at all. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1MDq23scaWw.htmlsi=udKBmYwoq77t5b4t

@commentmancommentman1658 12 дней назад

People keep forgetting the elantra N actually has a bigger turbo than the fl5 BUT smaller than the fk8. So potential is on par on both (not really as type r has more aftermarket but the N is getting there.)

@da-yh3uy 12 дней назад

lol here’s someone who does not know about turbo size, purpose for the car, and when different turbo sizes kick in

@commentmancommentman1658 12 дней назад

@@da-yh3uy im pretty sure i know🙂

@royaltyallen1162 12 дней назад

@@commentmancommentman1658 na you dont

@BrodeyDoverosx 12 дней назад

@@commentmancommentman1658but you don’t though.

@babisotonggg 9 дней назад

That Elantra N sounds amazing.. walauweh.. Only if that Elantra N equipped with same pads.. it will be bonkers

@user-xm8ux1nm1h 12 дней назад

@danisouthere 12 дней назад

mdamn

@jonttran1092 12 дней назад

The savagegeese comparison on same track, same day, same tyres, same driver, had the type r and Elantra N line ball.. this video is just a few hackers having a run round the track

@surfsupbruh 12 дней назад

As much as hyundai is trying they still don't have that repertoire that would make any buyer feel comfortable about the quality and longevity of their vehicles

@williamrori1274 12 дней назад

They do have the longest factory warranty out of any OEM, which should help quell those fears.

@Reptilianoverlord-jc8mt 12 дней назад

@@williamrori1274it doesn’t mean anything. My mates front screen cracked which was a factory defect on the i20n and they told him to go through his insurance but ended up going in their with a GoPro to put them on Facebook but they fixed it at the end. Rather quality reliability over the bullsheet warranty numbers.

@brhardi48326 12 дней назад

I somewhat agree, but the way things are going now, even Toyota and Honda aren't what they used to be. Turns out that requiring cars to have more electronics than the space shuttle means more things go wrong. Some of those 90s cars were built to last forever.

@Stevie4171 12 дней назад

I mean they’ve been ranked higher than Honda and Toyota for a couple years now. New Hyundais are a different breed nowadays

@NorthKoreasSon 12 дней назад

@@Stevie4171 no they haven't

@bomeechu1710 11 дней назад

Hyundai won

@soultanasmaga9661 9 дней назад

Ndnd

@Scythersmile1 4 дня назад

Add the 55hp tune to type r and add breaks to the N to be apples to apples and N gets demolished

@preludeh22a57 12 дней назад

Hyundai is just so much better in everything! Hyundai is a brand with great history 🥰

@HDHQDIRECT 12 дней назад

If I wanted a little history, I'd drive your old beater.

@blackgold754 12 дней назад

Hyundai is defo getting better but I wouldn’t say everything. They still gotta become a household name when it comes to reliability. They do kill it in tech and design department for sure.

@WilliamLevesqueineX 12 дней назад

IMO 265s on the rear of a FWD without (or basic) aero is way overkill, I'd probably stop at like 235s, maaaaybe 245s (and keeping wider boots up front). Would also get the balance pretty nice and get the rears warmed up more nicely, more predictable. Would also allow you to run a softer rear if you have coilovers and swaybars, which would make the car more stable on bumps and braking, whilst still getting the rotation.

@toddallison4390 12 дней назад

Based on what information are you basing this on? Modern fwd cars are tuned with more oversteer built in and running a staggered tire is going to lose grip to wider tires on how these cars are designed

@WilliamLevesqueineX 12 дней назад

@@toddallison4390 They only oversteer a fair bit on cold tyres, they all push a little once tyres are warmed up. Staggered makes both the warming up phase and the warmed up phase more predictable. I have a Veloster N (one of the nicer handling FWDs no less) I full sent on track a few times sooooo, got a pretty good idea. Also drove a bunch of Hondas. Always needed to run overly high rear pressures to try and get a bit more rotation, even with camber bolts... Maybe would have been ok with camber plate but nothing reliable or not overpriced for that car back then. Dunno about now. Defo would have needed the camber tho. In the end stock is stock and it might depend on the car, but if I were to say put coilovers and swaybars, I'd do it with staggered in mind so I dont have to run an overly stiff rear end to compensate FWD being FWD. As I said, just more predictable overall, and more stable on bumps and braking. Obviously you cant look at racecars since they just follow a rulebook. But if you look at FWD Time Attack cars, most of the fast ones tend to run staggered, especially on the top end of performance (wide tyres).

@williamrori1274 12 дней назад

It's not if your goal is racing. You want to run the widest wheel and tire package physically possible. I have a street set of 18x9's with 245 RT660's and guess which setup is significantly faster? The 265's, obviously.

@WilliamLevesqueineX 12 дней назад

@@williamrori1274 Have you not read ? I mentioned on the rear of a FWD specifically, you still run wider up front. You'd think "more grip = faster" but in the end you run the rear end so stiff on a modified FWD that you're removing that grip anyway, just in a much sketchier way than just running narrower tyres. With that said, wider isnt always faster depending on the car. Something like a stock-ish eaarly Miata for example (light and slow). 225/9 is faster than running 245s on a fast track, and just about the same on a tight track assuming you run 10" rims. Anyway, I'm not pretending I know it all but as far as I know nobody's offering counter arguments here and I'm talking from personal experience at, I'd like to think, pretty high level so 🙃

@williamrori1274 12 дней назад

@@WilliamLevesqueineX Yeah and that's fine. Obviously sharing AIM data is pretty hard in the RU-vid comment section, but these cars have NO issue with rear rotation at all. I've already tried running my 18x9.5 265/35/18's up front with my 245's out back and I was slower (seen in the data traces) in nearly all sectors at Waterford Hills. This isn't a 90's Honda, square is absolutely the fastest setup for these.