Yeah pretty much the questions he gets would be, what about all the Old Testament stuff (wiping out nations, slavery), what about a loving God sending people to hell... he answers these type of questions really well.
RLK Brown don’t know really, happy to remain as an agnostic; I don’t believe that there isn’t a God, I don’t agree with many atheist arguments etc. Guess I’m just sat on the fence with it all.
Kym Moore okay well I hope you find the answers you are looking for! Even as a Christian I don’t know it all and we are all still learning from each other
If you ever have any questions or would like any insight about Christianity or the Bible please let me or someone else know. You of course have to be careful of heretics, (as there are crazy people wherever you go anyways). I’m very glad to hear that you are at least thinking and open to new ideas, and it can be very hard to wrap your head around it all. I would be more than happy to exchange my email or something if you would like to atleast discuss some things or I could attempt to get you started somewhere. I’m not an amazing apologist or experienced pastor, but if I can serve and be of any help please don’t hesitate to ask. I’m not seeking to be some internet troll either. Much love for you, I truly wish for the best.
WebDev So - Why are w you quoting an "ours is not to reason why" narrative on an apologetic video where Frankie tries to establish that he can reason why?
@@Dr-Curious because he is trying to save a lot of time , are you familiar with the philosophical writings of CS Lewis , not his children's stories but his commentaries on the Bible you could call it , it is well worth reading if you have the means
@@travelsouthafrica5048 "because he is trying to save a lot of time ," Dodging online in public isn't a smart look for anyone - especially in an apologetic debate. Sorry - I got deeply bored of CS lewis.
"they've been doing all sorts of awful things for 400 years which I carefully arranged down to the last detail as part of my Perfect Plan for Mankind. BUT NOW IT'S JUDGEMENT DAY AND I AM in BIG TROUBLE!
@@JamesRichardWiley 'I'm going to do what I want. He knows he doesn't like me doing bad things things. He already knows what I'm gonna do and so I'm gonna do it anyway because this is also what I want not he wants. But now it's judgement day, he could have stopped me. I mean he gave me thoughts of not doing it and I knew that there would be judgement for it but despite his warnings, he didn't stop me from doing what I want and what I just thought to be right. So why the heck am I in trouble for doing such things despite him warning me? Such an awful God for letting me choose my destiny despite warning me of the shortcomings.
@@ashishhembrom3905 A world in which no bad thing can happen is a world without choice. We have a choice, thus we are in a free world. But that means both good and bad things can and do happen. So if the Bible is true, the whole thing is summarized by Jesus of Nazareth around 30 AD/CE -- "See I set before you this day, life and death. Choose life that you may live." You are in a free world. You have a choice. Choose life.
@@ashishhembrom3905 wow, give a choice GOD is wrong not giving a choice GOD is still wrong. GOD gave you a free will to choose to believe or not it is that simple, so simple that you don't need a degree to understand it. Plus GOD don't owe us anything and weather you believe it or not we owe God for giving us freewill. You reap what you saw.
@@ricksmith3442 is a guy who watches someone he believes that can't back up anything he says but still finds time to watch anyways and comment and make his videos more popular.
+@@Light-StandFinances By youtube standards, at 91,847 views, it's never going to make it to "popular" level. lol You are as big a failure as the video. What's your next whine? lol
This is the question I hear most often. The whole "You complain that God doesn't stop evil, and then we have an example of God stopping evil and you complain about that" thing is an incredible point! Adding that to my tool belt.
The example Frank gave here is 100% gibberish. God is all powerful. Capable of literally anything. He could have snapped his finger and fixed these people. Or he could have just, you know, not designed them to act this way (since he knew from the start this would happen). There's no reason an all powerful God should resort to murder and genocide. He has literally infinite options. That's why "the atheists complain", because God committing murder is STILL evil, no matter what the people he murdered did. In fact, since God is all knowing and all powerful, it's HIS FAULT these people are acting this way in the first place. So sorry. This isn't "an incredible point", it's nonsense. I'd bet my house every "tool" in your "tool belt" is nonsense as well.
There's a lot wrong with it. A. I don't actually believe that there's a god, so I'm not complaining that it doesn't stop evil, just pointing out that if it exists in this reality it's doing a crappy job. B. When you commit a greater act of "evil" to fix "evil", did you actually fix anything? "There's a murderer living in that house" "Cool, kill everyone male and non-virgin female in there, but take the virgins as sex slaves, that'll reduce our crime rate!".
@@flanderg123 I understand how u viewed it that way I have a friend who brought this to my attention and now I understand it a bit more. So we have to take a look at it through the lens of a timeless being seeing that there is a common theme of nations going through a transformation that at the apex is it’s full moral depravity and each nation does it America is on its course too but there is time for lots of people to be saved through God’s patience
Since I subscribed to this channel I have learnt a lot. I have been a believer my whole life and yet there were many things I didn't knew. Thank you for educating me, brother. May God bless you, Amen.
Rape and slavery. Real facts, just read the Bible, God's rules condoned owning slaves and bashing them close to death if necessary and enslaving their wife and their offspring children Exodus 21. Its was ok raping virgins and forcing the victim to marry the rapist also. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 Drunken incest was also ok, but an inocent quick look at something very interesting deserved instant death for no just reason by salt metamorphism, Lot and his daughters did the dirty deed. Genesis 19:26-38 Killing first borns and slaughtering and butchering thousands of Amalekite and many other racist wars. Flooding the earth killing women and children and unborn babies which is equal to mass abortions. Now go read your Bible with your eyes wide open and your brains turned on.
To be honest, the hardest part about studying the Bible is not just trying to understand its more cryptic messages, but accepting the messages that you already understand. The Bible is truth but the truth can often be a very bitter pill to swallow, but swallow it we must if we are to join our Lord in Heaven when the time comes.
Maybe that’s a sign that you should treat it with some skepticism. If you have to use countless examples of mental gymnastics to justify something, then it’s probably not correct
@@tsarnicholasii274 Exactly! The Bible isn’t truth. Snakes can’t talk, and people don’t live to be 900 years old. The human race was doing perfectly fine long before Christianity and all other religions came along. It’s a shame that so many people choose comfort over reality.
Indeed. It was jesus who introduced the concept of hell and burning forever for not believing he's a lovely guy. Very recognisable in the gawd of the old testament.
Albert Stegeman, and people like hitler Will see what they deserve. Justice will be served! People choose to go to hell and deny gods son wilfully, god Won’t force heaven onto us, neither can a sinner enter a perfect Kingdom or then the kingdom won’t be perfect anymore. And if god was a Soft Heartless Spirit then there would be no consequences to the evil people in this world! Then where would the true Justice be!? God would be evil if there was no hell! Because If he served no justice then that means hitler got away will his EVIL, that man who raped that woman got away with it, and pedophiles, child rapists would also get away with there EVIL! We will Reap our own choices And Actions That are evil, they must have consequences Or there would be No justice or Fair judgment. And no reason for a sinner to change. If there was no prison people would simply just not care About anything, and the world would go crazy, and crimes would increase with No Justice. But when people realise there’s a consequence to evil actions, it stops them from committing that evil and saves a lot of trouble from happening. Why should god force you to go to heaven when you clearly hate his character and don’t want anything to do with him anyway!? That’s why he gave you free will! And the gift of free will is True love. God loves you enough to let you make Your own choices and not program you into a robot to love him.
@@declan.mclean3857 Being punished for wrong doings: sure. Being punished for not believing a phony story of a skydad who sent his son, who was himself, to be punished because a female ate an apple thousands of years ago. And that's my fault. The bible in a nutshell. By the way, just curious: will there be free will in heaven?
Well let me provide a counter argument that you have never heard before: His whole “Atheists complain when God doesn’t step in to stop atrocities, but then also complain when he does step in” argument is still extremely problematic, because it shows that God is inconsistent. How were the Nazis any different from the awful group that he brought up? They two burned children alive, and enslaved, murdered, and tortured millions, so why was God inconsistent with his punishments? Why did he choose to let the Nazis slaughter his creations when he had put an end to that awful behavior before? And this also shows the holes in the “free will” argument. As humans do we, or do we not have free will? Because it certainly didn’t seem like we did back then; God was constantly interfering with our actions; causing floods, wiping out civilizations; spreading plagues, etc. But now what? The divine intervention just stopped. Did God just grow apathetic? Did he abandon us and label us as a lost cause? I’d like to see how the speaker would try to justify that.
The Batman Why are you asking me these questions instead of Frank Turek? but let me try to provide an explanation since your asking me. According to Deut 32:8 and Psalm 82, God divided up the nations (land and people) to watchers who then disobeyed Him and let wickedness abound, so God brought a people of His own through Abraham which would become His portion, His nation and His land. So when He rescued His people from Egypt there were other nations inhabiting His land doing detestable things as child and human sacrifice as well as worship of those other gods...ON HIS LAND. So he used His people as weapons (for many reasons other than just sending fire from Heaven) to wipe them out -although they didn’t fully wipe them out so their religion would surface from time to time and led His people astray...hence why He told them to wipe them out completely. WWII was not on His land and also after he sent His son Jesus to die for our salvation. So that is why the “atrocities” - as you put it, were bestowed upon those people. God never demanded lives or attacks outside of His own land. God sent His 10 commandments and the rain falls on the just and as well as the unjust. Thus FREE WILL. Even the other gods had free will and chose evil. So do we have a choice. Every action, obeying God or disobedience has a consequence. Jesus will return for judgement.
Hey Frank Turek, I really enjoy you posting up Q&A’s because I’ve seen your presentation countless times. I love the Q&A’s bc it’s interesting, different, etc.
People don't usually hate people they don't think are real. Also, it seems your god loves sin more than anyone else, since he does the most sinning in the Bible.
@Mr Wash That's circular reasoning combined with a twisted, deranged, and utterly delusional excuse for child slaughter. An omnipotent God cannot possibly have an excuse for it. This God's brilliant plan to stop child sacrifice was to sacrifice the rest of the children, only without the use of an alter? If children go to Heaven automatically when they die, why is child sacrifice wrong? I don't see how the addition of an alter makes it any more evil than slaughtering a child because a god told you to. Imagine I put a two-year-old girl into her car seat, light a cigarette, and burn her all over her body before taking her to Disney World. Do you think the judge and jury are going to care that I brought her to Disney World? There is no excuse for child slaughter when you are omnipotent, and can simply snap your fingers to bring children to Heaven. According to your logic, abortion is a good thing, and we should abort every fetus until we are all extinct, so everyone is born in Heaven, and no more will go to Hell. We should kill every child we can. Your reasoning is the sick and delusional reasoning that a mother who was convicted of murdering her children used: She was convinced she was saving her children from Hell, because God put it on her heart that they, just like those Canaanite children, would end up in Hell if they reached the age of reason. Your belief about the age of reason and accountability is dangerous, and cannot be found in the Bible. "GOD owns all that HE created, HE has the right to do what ever HE wants with HIS creation." That is the reasoning of a murderous slave owner. Being God does not make you moral if you are doing immoral things. If you created someone that can suffer, and then make them suffer, you are not justified just because you created them. Suppose I owned a dog, I'd go to prison for animal abuse if I abused and killed it.
@Mr Wash " In 1 Samuel 15:2-3, God commanded Saul and the Israelites, “This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'" God ordered similar things when the Israelites were invading the promised land (Deuteronomy 2:34; 3:6; 20:16-18). Why would God have the Israelites exterminate an entire group of people, women and children included? " Because, he is characteristically evil, just like all unrepentant genocidal maniacs are. "This is a difficult issue. We do not fully understand why God would command such a thing," That is because there is no excuse for child slaughter, that is why you cannot understand how there can be a righteous murderer of children. It is difficult, because you have to do incredible mental gymnastics to make excuses for criminal behavior. Just ask any criminal who makes excuses for their criminal behavior, blaming others instead of themselves. "but we trust God that He is just" Yes, because you have been brainwashed to think that justice allows the brutal slaughter of children, because you use circular reasoning to conclude that your god is just ("Our genocidal god is just. How do we know he is just, despite killing all those children in brutal ways? Because, he said he is just, and if Hitler says he's just to kill Jewish children, then he is just to do so"). There is nothing just about your god's behavior toward children, or just about Hitler's behavior toward children. Both qualify as genocidal maniacs who have zero justification. "and we recognize that we are incapable of fully understanding a sovereign, infinite, and eternal God." It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that mass genocide of children is immoral, or that dishing out infinite torture for finite crimes is the ultimate evil. "As we look at difficult issues such as this one, we must remember that God’s ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts (Isaiah 55:9; Romans 11:33-36)." Right. It makes sense if you don't think about it, so just say that we could never understand. "We have to be willing to trust God and have faith in Him even when we do not understand His ways. " Faith is foolishness, because it is belief without evidence or proof. I reject faith as the most dishonest position one can hold, and consider it extremely foolish. See how it is making you come up with deranged excuses for a mass murderer of children? I understand your god's ways perfectly fine, and they are utterly evil. What makes it worse is that he hides behind a facade of love and forgiveness, even while burning most people forever and killing small children. His words and actions are not in tune with each other, and when that is the case, I go with the actions to tell what is in the heart. Your god's heart is full of infinite hatred for all who burn in Hell, and that is why he dishes out infinite torture. He is an god with severe anger issues and abnormal psychology. Thank the real God that he is imaginary, and is only a reflection of an ancient god-king tyrant who pretends to love anyone who bows to him and obeys him without question, even when he commands the mass genocide of children. "Unlike us, God knows the future." This does nothing to excuse subjecting small children to extreme suffering and terror while they are being slaughtered. You are sick, and need help. "God knew what the results would be if Israel did not completely eradicate the Amalekites." Or, your god lied about it. Had that ever occurred to you? The Bible says that he sent a delusion to make people believe lies, so it admits that he is also a deceiver, which is in holding with him being a mass murderer. "If Israel did not carry out God’s orders, the Amalekites would come back to trouble the Israelites in the future." So, we should kill all the children of Muslim terrorists, according to your logic. That future problems may arise is not an excuse to commit mass genocide of children. You certainly have done impressive mental gymnastics to justify the mass genocide of small children and a god that is no better than Molech, a murderer of children.
“What kind of king makes Himself nothing for His people? The Mighty one. What kind of king lets His people humiliate and beat Him until He is unrecognizable and is still able to hold His head high? The Merciful one. What kind of king hangs Himself on a cross for his people? The Righteous one. And because He has done this for us I will make my life a living sacrifice unto Him.” His name is above all others His name is JESUS!
@@BScott7220 God is perfect, for the immoral man to question the Creator of morality is quite silly. Should an individual go unpunished for their crimes?
@@Homesteader1776 Yes he seems to think so and based on his logic if you don't "believe" in God you automatically go to hell. What if you do believe in God but is still greedy, selfish, envious will that be enough to get you saved? faith without action is dead. And he seems to think that God sacrificing himself for us makes him somehow evil for doing that which doesn't make sense to me.
@brandon weidner To start the lords and saviors name is YESHUA not Jesus. Secondly he’ll is not eternal, it’s your eternal outcome. The Bible uses the word forever 56 times to describe something with a definite end. It’s not the punishing that’s eternal but the punishment... being separated from god, from sin. Not only this but hell is not fire, fire is symbolic, and Satan and demons don’t rule hell they will be punished also. Not only this so many prophecies have come true, 12 tribes of Israel scattered” certain African people, specifically ones in American from Soave ships, Hispanics and Indians. The signs in the stars The mark of the beast And I. The older original Greek written revaluation we are warned not to say the name Jesus because that name is of false phrophet For better explanation watch parable of the vineyard and hope through prophecy
@@lucid_lucas4509 If someone is truly seaking after God willing to be fully obedient to the call He has placed on their lives, with them having no idea that Our Saviors name in Hebrew is Yeshua, intern referring to Him as Jesus would God still respond to the individual?
@Jack Of All Trades It's why it is such a hotly debated topic. Here's my viewpoint. No one should be made to "remain pregnant" if they don't want to be pregnant. It is a potentially dangerous situation to be in and each person should be able to decide what they do with their body. Having said that, I completely think that anyone who doesn't want to have children should practice a LOT more self control and maturity. Double, triple contraceptives........or not have sex at all.
@Jack Of All Trades Well, that was a bit pessimistic, but I do wish humanity would grow past what so many are and mature to what we really should have been at today. I wrote a fiction story [albeit, amateur] that has a lot to do with the lack luster progress of humanity. It probably won't ever get published, but it has been fun writing it.
If hes trying to justify the mass genocide of people by saying they were immoral, where was that energy when blacks were enslaved in the U.S? Where was God then?
HoodieDan obviously not all humans but all of Israel did believe in God and time and time again they went against him which caused him to stop interceding. It doesn’t matter who he stops you won’t be able to serve him. Believe he exist sure but even the devil believes in God. The ancient Israelites saw the parting of the Red Sea, saw the plagues fall on Egypt, the walls of Jericho fall, heard Gods voice multiple times that it put fear in the people of Israel and still what did they do? They burned their children alive to these idols and killed the prophets of God. After interceding so much for the people of Israel through there battles they still turned against him. God could rain fire down from the sky to where the entire world sees but that will only make you believe in him not actually worship him
David Vargas Dont you think it was a waste of time then on Gods part, since hes supposedly all knowing he knew the outcome already. So if that’s true God Can’t be all knowing, or maybe you’re just wrong.
I get why people want to pose questions like these, but look, apologists will NEVER see this as a valid question. The Bible specifically prevents this line of questioning from being problematic by saying god won't interfere or be seen or heard etc after Jesus's death. It's a fail safe.
...i thought it was good apart from him saying that God is arbitary in justice, he just takes life if he feels like it.. he missed out the important fact that the Israelites were not allowed to go into the promised land until the sin of the amorites had reached its full measure Gen 15:16
Indeed. As your god seems to choose to help a tiny minority who are in need through no fault of their own, yet ignores millions of starving innocent children. He allows kids born with bone cancer and AIDS, for example. Your god sounds truly awful.
It's obviously a strawman argument. One, the atheists don't "complain about God not stopping evil" because they don't believe there is a God on the first place. Two, it's not a question of hating it WHEN He does, but rather HOW He does. Any child could think of many more humane and loving and acceptable ways to stop evil behaviour than slaughtering those who perpetrate it.
@@joshuakohlmann9731 Yap, that's exactly right, even children can come up with better ways. "But god can do whatever he wants. He is god, the giver and taker of life!" Even if that is so, he does it very, very poorly ... Reminds me more of some infuriated war lord than an all-loving god.
This is interesting because he is not only addressing the most common atheist arguments I've encountered myself but he is giving the answers I gave, but got ridiculed by the people I was addressing.
Wow 😯- that was the best explanation I’ve heard for something I’ve struggled to understand but just took on faith. Thank you for helping me with some reasons that made a lot of sense to me
A scenario from the video itself: "There's a young lady who asked a question and she said, 'I can't believe in a god that would do this kind of thing.' And so I said, 'Can I ask you a question? Are you pro-abortion or pro-life?' She said, 'Oh, I'm pro-abortion.' I said, 'Let me ask you a question about that, Why is it that when God plays God in the Old Testament, when he chooses who lives and who dies, he's immoral? But when you play god here on earth and you decide who lives and who dies through abortion, that's a moral right?'"
Good luck slogging your way through that snoozer. I can recommend it as a cure for insomnia, a door stop, and toilet paper but not much more than that.
Well what do you think of my answer to his answer? Or at least one of them: His whole “Atheists complain when God doesn’t step in to stop atrocities, but then also complain when he does step in” argument is still extremely problematic, because it shows that God is inconsistent. How were the Nazis any different from the awful group that he brought up? They two burned children alive, and enslaved, murdered, and tortured millions, so why was God inconsistent with his punishments? Why did he choose to let the Nazis slaughter his creations when he had put an end to that awful behavior before? And this also shows the holes in the “free will” argument. As humans do we, or do we not have free will? Because it certainly didn’t seem like we did back then; God was constantly interfering with our actions; causing floods, wiping out civilizations; spreading plagues, etc. But now what? The divine intervention just stopped. Did God just grow apathetic? Did he abandon us and label us as a lost cause? I’d like to see how the speaker would try to justify that.
You really need to reevaluate your morality and outlook on reality. If you look to this con man for how to be motivated, you're not going to turn out well.
@@jeziscricket4448 I don't know what your point is or how that's relevant to the discussion. Everything we do and interact with from the day we are old enough to reason until the day we die has the potential to alter our morality and world view (including TV). So what?
A lot of SERIOUS evasions, going on, it would seem. And humans never seem to have fully CHOSEN how they are born, where they are born, or into what - or as what. So how is any full conscious 'rejecting' even going on...?
The god of the Old Testament promoted human sacrifice (see Leviticus 27:29 & Exodus 13:2) and slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46). Although he ordered them not to intermarry, he also allowed the Israelites to kidnap foreign women and force them to be their wives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14). He ordered a man to be killed just for picking up sticks on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). He even broke the second commandment when he had Moses create a graven image of a snake to cure people of their poison bites (Deuteronomy 21:8-9 & 2 Kings 18:4). This is NOT a God of morality.
The one thing I have trouble with is why God allows an individual child to be murdered. Like when they get abducted by a monster. Why doesn't God supernaturally intervene.
A sharp and powerful answer as usual. Anyone able to do this is in no doubt must have the guidance of the moral standards came from the Christ consciousness resides within him. Keep up the good work folks... 👍
Yahweh is love and he is merciful he is always with me because I obey him. I pray for a little kids I see them get healed from asthma and all kinds of diseases all glory to Yahweh
whoop whoop hey NIKKKKKI you muffin humping crap stacker. Leave My friend maxstone9999 alone he has answered your stupid question and you, being the worshipper of of time traveling, farting, dodgy curry seeking cats whom you believe created the universe. You need to go back to your comments where you say that the big bang did not create anything... then you say that it created everything, then you say that it had to achieve escape velocity to happen, then you claim to no scientist claims that the universe did not create itself, then, when presented with hawking's quote of the universe creating itself as a result of a law such as gravity you say its quote mining LOLOLOLOLOLOL Then you claim that you have time traveling farting cat that in its trip back into the past to get a bowl of dodgy curry created the universe and maintain that that is plausible... then you spew off into how your wife understands the "BIG BANG"
"He gives life, he can take it away." I'd like to see you apply the same logic to your own children. And on the note that Atheists state that God doesn't stop evil then complain when he does, I would argue that the manner in which he stops it is what is worthy of complaint as well as ridicule. I mean really think about it for a moment. The ALL POWERFUL God of the universe that also infinitely loves couldn't have thought of a better way to turn the people from their ways? To stop the evil that was happening? No one can put any real serious thought combining those two concepts and NOT come up with a better solution to stop people from murder, child sacrifice, rape, etc. Here's an alternative: Why doesn't God come down in a form that won't consume everyone (he does it many years later in the form of Jesus) and draw the whole city to himself and speak to them and tell them or do for them what he knows will convince them of his goodness, divinity, love, and power? He's omnipotent. He can do that without taking away free will. How? He's OMNIPOTENT. Another option is for him to speak to every one of them individually whether in person or in their heads and convince them that there's a better way, lay it all out for them, show them the error of their ways. Or, at the very least, instead of burning them all to death he could have just thought them out of existence. But no, God, in his limitless power and love says, "I think the best solution is for them to be burned alive in terror and agony."
Hey Kristian, I have a couple of thoughts/questions. First, you begged the question (paraphrasing) "Why doesn't God reveal himself to everyone and show him what good/evil is and tell them to stop?" You interjected that Jesus did this once. My question is that if God (Jesus) did this once and many at the time did not believe, and many still don't believe today, what makes you believe that they would believe if he did it again? Second, if God truly is all powerful, all knowing, and good, then He can do whatever he wants the way He wants and still be "good." How can we argue the morality of God if He is the standard of morality?
@@FaithDoctrine First question - God did actually show himself to Saul in a way that forced him to believe. He became Paul and wrote most of the new testament as a result. 2. Goodness is described by Jesus. Scripture describes the fruits of the spirit as love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, self control, etc... Jesus states numerous times that his nature is that of the Father. Jesus said it would be better for someone to die than to harm the innocent children. The person of Jesus is very much at odds with someone who commands the killing of children. Wouldnt you say that a character trait of God to stay consistent?
@@justindavis2711 I would point out a couple of things from context with what you're saying there. 1) Saul could have still chosen to reject what the vision was clearly showing him. He wasn't forced but simply turned from what he was doing, and we know from many characters in the Bible that this was definitely not always the case, as with Balaam who straight up just argues with a speaking donkey like that's normal and justifies himself and his actions. 2) Jesus' comment in regards to innocent children is in regards to leading them astray towards the wrong path, not literal, physical harm to them. Many times Jesus makes it clear that the spiritual condition is of infinitely more importance to God than the temporal, physical condition which may or may not be uncomfortable at times. The OP also seemed to suggest that the Canaanites would have turned away from their ways of God showed up as Jesus did, and yet Jesus did actually show up and most people didn't change either in complacency or willful ignorance or rebellion against God. With free will, it is always possible to stick to self righteousness rather than submit to God.
@@dl5641 1.) A speaking donkey is in no way comparable to the transfigured manifestation of the living God. He did not experience a vision - he experienced God himself. It affected him so much he went blind. After having an experience like that, he would have to be mentally disabled to not believe it - in which case I'd argue that it wouldnt even be a choice because it would be caused by a disability, not rebellion. To say there was a choice involved is like saying there is a choice to leave your hand on a burning hot-pan. We have instincts and a rational mind that force us to accept things, and if we don't, we are considered to be mentally damaged - not rebellious. To say otherwise is to say that God lacks the ability to convince people of his own existence, which is a little bit silly. He can easily take someone and show them entirety of his creation, eternity, and fix their brain so that they can think rationally enough to accept his truth if he wanted. He is a limitless God, and we should not put him in a box. 2.) I accept that the specific scripture regarding Luke 17:2 as referencing the spiritual harm of children. However, there are still numerous scriptures contradicting the idea that God supports murder of innocent children, and wants us to care for them. Here is only a sinlge example: James 1:27 "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." Are you truly arguing that God would think it good and rightious to slit the throat of a child than to adopt them and raise them in the faith? Even when scripture literally says that God our Father wants us to care for orphans? I'll restate my position more clearly for you to understand it. Goodness is defined by Jesus. The Father is defined by Jesus. He said this numerous times. The Old Testament is written by those who did not have a full picture of the nature of God. This is why the Pharisees constantly disagreed with Jesus. Its also why Ecclesiastes virtually condradicts the entire gospel. Not all scriptures are to be taken literally, and we are supposed to view the Old Testament through the lense of Christ - not view Christ through the lens of the Old Testament. If you do that, you end up contradicting yourself on a constant basis. But if you use the correct lens, everything makes 1000x more sense.
You'd like to see the same logic applied to children? You're clueless as f... Frank addressed that directly in this very video that you watched. It's called Abortion and over 60 million lives have been taken, for nearly half a century.
The old testament is gold. Rape and slavery. Real facts, just read the Bible, God's rules condoned owning slaves and bashing them close to death if necessary and enslaving their wife and their offspring children Exodus 21. Its was ok raping virgins and forcing the victim to marry the rapist also. Deuteronomy 22:28-29 Drunken incest was also ok, but an inocent quick look at something very interesting deserved instant death for no just reason by salt metamorphism, Lot and his daughters did the dirty deed. Genesis 19:26-38 Killing first borns and slaughtering and butchering thousands of Amalekite and many other racist wars. Flooding the earth killing women and children and unborn babies which is equal to mass abortions. Now go read your Bible with your eyes wide open and your brains turned on.
@@Dr-Curious Every immoral act is condoned if done in God's name. That's the problem with religions. It's what creates religious bigots, terrorists, supremacists, etc.
You have every right to be frustrated. The god of the Old Testament also promoted human sacrifice (see Leviticus 27:29 & Exodus 13:2) and slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46). Although he ordered them not to intermarry, he also allowed the Israelites to kidnap foreign women and force them to be their wives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14). He ordered a man to be killed just for picking up sticks on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). He even broke the second commandment when he had Moses create a graven image of a snake to cure people of their poison bites (Deuteronomy 21:8-9 & 2 Kings 18:4). In your heart you know this is NOT the work of a good, moral God.
Well I have some of my own answers for his answers: His whole “Atheists complain when God doesn’t step in to stop atrocities, but then also complain when he does step in” argument is still extremely problematic, because it shows that God is inconsistent. How were the Nazis any different from the awful group that he brought up? They two burned children alive, and enslaved, murdered, and tortured millions, so why was God inconsistent with his punishments? Why did he choose to let the Nazis slaughter his creations when he had put an end to that awful behavior before? And this also shows the holes in the “free will” argument. As humans do we, or do we not have free will? Because it certainly didn’t seem like we did back then; God was constantly interfering with our actions; causing floods, wiping out civilizations; spreading plagues, etc. But now what? The divine intervention just stopped. Did God just grow apathetic? Did he abandon us and label us as a lost cause? I’d like to see how the speaker would try to justify that.
Dr Turek.... I'm sorta new to the channel, not your ideas. But more and more, I think you're the real deal when it comes to a messenger of God. As a self admitted ex-Christian, sir... your making some headway with me, but it still doesn't change my opinions on the church. If men witnessed like this to me in person with my questions, maybe I would've never turned my back.
I'm thinking by myself , since the beginning God always warned people to do the right things the way He wanted and we never never respected God advises we always do things the way we wanted , we can't blame God .
If God could change hearts (think God hardening the Pharoah's heart) then couldn't he have done the opposite to the Canaanites to stop all the evil they were commiting? Isn't it a little extreme to annihilate them?
The word of God also says “the goodness of God leads you to repentance.” If people hate His goodness they cannot change. Aside from judging the canaanites God also wanted to prevent the Israelites from practicing their evil ways. So for that cause they were slaughtered. If the Israelites were corrupted in all their generations Jesus Christ could not be born through a Holy seed.
God is an epic failure in everything he planned did or thought. The Bible is a how-to book on genocide and a chronicle if all his failings. As a supreme being he could have gotten it right from the beginning, but had to constantly cleanse and start over. Must be a pretty dumbass God. I could have planned and performed better with his powers.
@@daviddpful Calling me names doesn't change the long list of God's failures. Thus is what believers do. When confronted with uncomfortable or unsupportable facts, they attack the messenger rather than address the points presented. That says what you need to know.
@@spocksvulcanbrain Who says I'm calling you names the truth of the matter is that you are dumb because is that what you are and to tell you the truth it doesn't matter if you point God failures or you don't believe in him at the end even if I explain to you these topics you still will be in denial and it will be a waste of time just like you came here to see this video explaining these topics, so saved it.
Awesome explanations many confirm my own thoughts on it, I hadn't heard the abortion argument though excellent, another curiosity is people rarely call out those situations where the Jews or Israelites came under judgement, but only when other cultures faced consequences do the fingers point at God.
The moral perspective of the christian god is extremely subjective. It's just the opinion of one individual. Why even bother to call it a 'standard'? And what good is a 'moral standard' if it results in killing all babies on earth by drowning them? That's what happens if you put your trust in moral ideas of one extremely powerful entity who has a history of encouraging and condoning violence. At least people share their ideas about morality and try to learn from each other in order to come to some sort of intersubjective morality.
It’s fascinating to me, the difficulty of people to publicly frame a concise question. Inevitably, they ramble, mutter, and fill the air with sounds as if they’ve lost control of their mind. No wonder relationships fail more often than they succeed.
well, I'm afraid public speaking is just really difficult if you haven't done it before. I'm sure that young man will get better at framing his questions the more he practices
@@chrissonofpear1384 Hey. The evidence before you is enough. If you want more, you might die without getting more. Billy Graham once said "God has made the way of salvation so plain that 'the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein'" from Isaiah 35:8. The evidence is before you. More of something is not what makes it valid. You need to step out of yourself (I mean your ideological cocoon) and examine everything that has been said with a fresh eye and an open mind. You'll find it very compelling.
@@chrissonofpear1384 Jesus said in Luke 7:31-35 , "To what then shall I liken the men of this generation, and what are they like? They are like children sitting in the marketplace and calling to one another, saying: 'We played the flute for you, And you did not dance; We mourned to you, And you did not weep.' For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' But wisdom is justified by all her children."
@@euniceaber6867 And I'm sure various Spanish Jews could easily reflect upon this, without fear of torture, imprisonment, or general persecution, by various people riled up by blood libel claims and other hasty rumours, about them? Or Africans who sometimes got Leviticus 25:46 or the Curse of Ham quoted at them, in support for some chaining them up? Or assorted people slaughtered on August 24th, 1572, to supposed acclaim of the then Pope? Also, were previous gay people often summarily put to death; was there always a... cure, for them, only being explored now; and to what extent can they even choose their desires, if Satan can subvert parts of nature? Also, regards 1 Corinthians 2:14, again?
@@euniceaber6867 Ideological? I thought I was asking you about various forms of that? Legalism, too - and why Satan was owed any access? I'm well aware ideologies can lead to sectarian slaughters, thanks (and regretfully, did indeed occur, in the past, often)
He never answered the question. Is god moral to encourage genocide? Also, the 400 years question is interesting. If god is eternal why does he let 400 years of atrocities happen before finally intervening? He is infinite. Why wait?
God is more merciful than we can comprehend. God in his foreknowledge knows what would have happened if he let these people live. Gods character of love, just, holy still applies at all times.
Keep one thing in mind: God is almighty, all knowing and righteous. What you don't understand about him now, you might learn tomorrow. Trust him, and don't let the father of lies destroy your trust in God. If the enemy could talk angels into hating God, who are we yo try to argue with him...? Read the word, and stay close to Him.
If every time God kills it is moral because he is God, how can we possibly look to him as a guide to what our morality should be? How do we distinguish between what is moral for him, but immoral for us?
Hola aunque mi respuesta esté en español, creo que puedes traducirlo y espero sirva de algo ❤. En primer lugar, debemos entender que Dios es el único que puede dar vida o quitarla. En segundo, la única forma en la que podremos diferenciar lo que es moralmente correcto para Dios (o lo que le agrada) es a tráves de leer su palabra, la cual nos muestra ejemplos de como debemos vivir y poco a poco nos va revelando que cosas no son buenas, no solo porque entendemos por nuestro propio juicio que son malas sino porque entendemos que Dios las ve así. Ejemplo: No codiciarás, no mentirás, no robarás, no matarás...
The guy asking seemed earnest and genuine and Dr Turek handled it with love. Well done. When people say they're angry at God for wiping people out, they're not actually angry at God but a strange idea of him. How can you reconcile HE is the creator of all things, ultimate judge and has promised a life after death....and then be angry at him killing people 'for no good reason'? It's looking for an excuse to be angry and reject God. Not in this fellow's case it seems, but online there is often a vitriol and ignorance combined that results in those kind of incoherent stances. "If God existed, I'd hate him and spit in his face" kind of attitude that's absolutely ridiculous. False bravado and virtue signaling. Some people think if a guy started a fight, they'd knock him out in one punch. Others might think if a mob attacked them, they'd swiftly dispatch the entire mob. Others still think in a zombie apocalypse, they'd be some kind of hero, just plain better than everyone else. But then you have people who think they would be exposed to the creator of the universe, of life, and death, justice and separation. And...spit in his face. Because he doesn't meet THEIR (inconsistent) standards of morality. Probably watching too much anime.
Well... 1. Do you interpret that "wrote his law on your heart" verse to mean that your feelings are an accurate judge of objective morality? 2. Do you feel it's good if Bob drowns Fred to death without warning because Bob disagrees with Fred's actions? 3. If we confirm Bob's reason for disliking Fred's actions is really good, would _that_ make Bob's drowning good? A lot of non-belief is the result of simply reading the Bible carefully and paying attention to what it actually says (which includes self-contradictions like the ones I just described -- unless you weirdly think it was good for Bob to drown Fred, I guess. Another huge source of non-belief is we just don't know gods exist. Knowledge requires evidence, and we don't have strong, logical evidence of a god. In fact when theists _try_ providing evidence, it's always illogical stuff. For example Frank often cites the Moral Argument which is just two back-to-back claims without evidence (that (A) objective moral values exist and (B) if they exist they must indicate a god); well non-evidenced claims are a type of logical error called a "baseless assertion". I mention these two big ones because "angry at god" represents almost no non-believers. It's honestly pretty weird, right? I mean sure people _can_ be angry at the fictional King Joffrey from Game of Thrones (you know, that jerk teenager king?), but usually they aren't because they don't actually believe Joffrey exists. Well non-believers don't believe gods exist, so being angry at them is pretty silly. It can happen, it's just silly.
shout out to @nickj14711 always lurking in the comments just waiting to spread hate to all Christians under every Frank Turek video I wish you the best dude, I hope one day you can see past your pride
nickj14711 I do see what you’re doing as spreading hate because you’re obviously not trying to grow from any of the arguments you’re starting with people. You’re talking down to everyone as if you already have all of the answers, and all Christians are blind sheep. I can’t remember what thread it was, but you even said you were “winning” all of these arguments, and you “haven’t lost one yet.” You’re obviously not trying to grow and learn from these conversations if you see it as winning or losing a competition. You just seem angry at Christianity. No one on here is threatening anyone with hell. We’re told to live like Jesus, and He never did that. I honestly hate seeing street preachers shout at people and act like they’re better than everyone, so I’m sorry that you haven’t had good experiences with Christians. We can talk about homosexuality later if you want. Talk, not you talk down to me like you do to everyone. Frank doesn’t spread hate at all? I can’t name one time he’s threatened anyone? I hope you see my point here. You’re talking to everyone on here like they’re Hitler, but we’re just normal people who have genuine reasons for our beliefs, like I’m sure you do.
I love how apologists will say "anybody who isn't Christian has no objective morality" when moral standards have existed longer than Yahweh, Judaism, or Christianity. I also think it's hilarious that they will prop up god as this unchanging moral compass and yet he operates on completely different moral standards depending on the timeline and writer of the book describing his acts. Even more, I love that any comment pointing out anything wrong with the arguments presented here is promptly deleted because the author knows that his bs can't stand up to logical criticism. But keep gobbling up that mana, sheep, it'll keep your hard earned dollars going into the coffers of corrupt and morally bankrupt churches.
I was wondering why they laughed until i realized he pulled that powerpoint out in the middle of the question. Ahahaha.. I had to roll it back a few times and laughed myself everytime... Ahahaha..
@@brotothewilliams9890 This is not true at all. Even Bill Maher, famous atheist talk show host, admits that Christians don't live in this way. That atheist would refute you even. But if we look at history, atheism has caused more bloodshed, atrocities, and hate crimes world wide. In fact, more murder came from atheistic communistic regimes in the 20th century than at any other time in recorded history. You can thank mother Russia, China, Cuba, and so forth. It would be even more fair for me to say that atheism directly leads to the murder of innocent life.
God almost never called for human sacrifice. He told Abraham to sacrifice his son only to display Abraham's faith, and God stepped in to stop him once that faith was displayed. Really the only human sacrificed in the Bible under God's orders was Jesus Christ himself. As far as the animals go, yes, they were sacrificed very often. Animal sacrifice was a part of the law to try to remind the Israelites two things. First, God's standard is complete purity because He is completely pure. That's why things like touching a dead body or having sex required a sacrifice afterward. God wasn't saying, "oh no what have you done, that was bad". It's a spiritual washing to remain holy. Second, they were prone to sin and the sacrifices were supposed to humble them in a way. Also, for us the sacrifices really set up the mind-blowing sacrifice of Jesus. It's easy to say "yeah Jesus died for your sins" but when you understand the weight that the law had on people that NO amount of sacrifices could erase...and now this one messiah has changed the game forever...it's extraordinary.
@@jericawilson1484 All that wall of Text and you missed out the part where Jephta sacraficed his daughter and god was happy with it, so happy with it that the new testament glorifies him as a '''good person'' But only false gods such as Molech sacrifice humans or animals! And it goes against gods perfect moral character! Its pretty clear that the bible wasn't written by people that proofread it more than once
@@dozer1323 God did not call for Jephthah to sacrifice his daughter. Jephthah made a foolish and Reckless promise to God to win a battle. He made a huge theological blunder by assuming God would even want a sacrifice (he was more familiar with human sacrifices made to Molech than anything else). During that point in Israel's history, they didn't really have a king or main leader, so he as a judge was kind of on his own. Regardless, the Bible shows NO indication that God was pleased with this. God enters at the beginning of the chapter to help Jephthah win battles, but he has no more dialogue or actions for the rest of the chapter. It's just a record of history and a lesson in making thoughtless oaths. Jephthah was a judge that God used for many good things for Israel, and thus went down in Jewish history as a champion. But the Bible has many champions that God used who are terrible examples of living a godly life. Just because those instances are in the Bible does not automatically mean that those actions are approved by God. It's also worth noting that the daughter herself held Jephthah to his vow. Some scholars even hold that the "sacrifice" did not cost her life, but swore her to a life of celibacy. Not totally sure if I follow that but I haven't looked too far into it. Anywho...I stand by my original comment. God only called for the completed sacrifice of Jesus.
@@jericawilson1484 Completely Ignored what I just said so I will reiterate God was happy with his sacrifice so much that he honored them in the new testament This is sick, this is beyond pshychopathic that a so called moral god would be pleased with a batshit nutcase like that (assuming he existed in the first place) Same with Abraham, a complete lunatic who would be in a nuthouse looney bin if he was around today Please read your Goddamned bible
The problem with most of these atheistic questions is they are applying THEIR perspective of morality, which is all over the place. Example: "GENOCIDE = BAD" Yet genocide of babies = Good👍
I don't know, man, I still can't get past all the horrid stuff in the Bible. I want to be religious but I just can't ignore it. The answers in this seem a bit strung out
the bible has nothing to do with true religion. There is no God. True religion is your own relation with the universe. If human were awake and not retarded like 90% are there would be as many religions as there are people. The bible is evil and brainwashes people using fear of hell.
I can't get past the reality that most of the ideas and stories in the Bible existed in other religions before hand, making most of it look like it was plagerized, the Jewish Torah (basis for the old testament) is actually a fairly new religion relatively speaking, there are religions much older than Judaism which lead to christianity . Anyway, it makes the Bible look like it probably was just a reworking of earlier religions. The Muslims did this. A guy just took the Bible and then did some reworking by adding a few things and now millions follow that religion. We see countless examples of this happening, so it's not outlandish at all to be skeptical of the Bible's historical evolution as well.
@@tonyhogg9839 I was thinking that too, honestly. And honestly it just adds to the "I can't even pretend to like it" factor. Religion (in my life) is about structure and ritual. I love religions that have structures and rituals! I like the community! But when the source material is like this - man, I can't even look at it
For heaven sake. How many of you people do not realize that you would have believed just as fervently in Apollo had you been born in the right time and place? Take a half a step back and actually think!
@Ethan I don't have to do anything if my creation tries to overthrow me, since I am omnipotent (if I am God), and can defeat the uprising with nothing more than a snap of the fingers. I wouldn't need to destroy anyone in the process, and if I can't handle it without killing, then I am not God, since there is something I cannot do.
And if you want to justify an atrocity, just say God told you to do it. Thousands of years later people will be twisting themselves into knots trying to excuse God rather than realize ancient Israel had some evil leaders. What a monster Frank believes God to be!
Speedzone Speedforce Maybe you are right, but when the mafia shows up at your door to forcibly evict you, who are you going to blame? The mafia boss or the hit men?
🏇🏻 My God is a mystery 🏃 Trinity is a mystery 🚶 Jesus is a mystery! 3 mysteries in 1 religion. TOO MUCH FOR CHILDREN! Disaster for monotheism! Disaster for human civilisation! ✍ If someone dies on the cross for the sins of others, it is never considered as love, it is worse than suicide! & if any god has done such evil, he is worse than the cow that the pagans worship!
Wow this is absolutely amazing, I don't know how I've just now find this video after 4 years of its existence, I didn't think it was possible to fit so many flawed arguments, misrepresented opposing arguments, and down right ignorant statements into one video but this man has proven me wrong, I salute you good sir.
@kingofthemultiverse4148 Hey, I'd almost forgotten this comment existed. I'll be honest, there's no need for me to refute any of this because there are plenty of videos made by people much smarter than me that have already done so. Me using ad-hominem isn't an attack. It's just me not wasting time in defuncting an already defunct argument while still bringing attention to the fact that it's a defunct argument.
The next question would be: Aren’t the Israelites just claiming to have contact with God and be doing his will on earth? Or aren’t they just lying and playing God themselves?
