Is Gorbad Ironclaw Still Alive? (Can Greenskins Die of Old Age?) Warhammer Fantasy Lore Speculation 

I want to be clear that the Reddit comments callout is purely intended as a joke, don't do anything stupid. I fully support those rude turds.

They never found the body, and by all the laws of television that means not only can he still be alive he definitely is.

Calling it, he was nabbed by dark elves and now he is leading a rebellion in Naggaroth together with Sporctacus.

My mentality: if him being dead wasn’t big enough of an issue to keep him out of the 8th edition army book, why would it keep him from Total War?

Gorbad and Grom came out of the same pit. I for one am really glad about ir.

I feel like the obvious narrative direction for a Gorbad campaign to take would be that wound he suffered. Like, maybe he spent nearly a millennia trying to find a way to undo the magic that is preventing the wound from healing and by the time his story picks up again, he now knows of a way to cure himself, but he needs a magic McGuffin or a specific ritual to do so, and getting that sorted could be the goal of his campaign.

Bro the idea that Grimgor is ANCIENT is so cool. Like he's this older than old Orc who just simply refuses to die. Makes him stand out in a way. Loved the video my guy!

I am just happy we get him because he looks cool in that red armour

i always assumed orcs could live pretty much forever just that they always die in combat sooner rather then later. Great video I enjoyed it, keep it up

I would like to see Gorbad Ironclaw moved basically where Warrzag is now and send the Prophet to the jungles of Lustria.

Open Wound; Gorbad can sprout blood through his never healing wound to blind enemies, decreasing it's attack and melee defence.

I personally think he'd be a cool LL for the greenskins. A commander type orc revolving around buffing all kinds of units would be a nice addition to the roster.

My opinion is that Gorbad after his defeat left out eastward to fight new enimes to upgrade his prowess in battle against new factions like cathay or Nippon as his army fell apart due to his men getting tired of fighting the west and the reason legends say he might or might not be alive is that the lands of cathay , khuresk and ect are more mysterious to the western kingdoms and know less about the tribe around there lands , I think he could be in Ind

well...I personally don't think too much about this matter ,as Sotek said many LL are basically Historical Figure

By Far the best old warboss model from the fantasy range. THE epitome of a boar riding badass.

Now we just need a video on how greenskins are born, and we will have the full life cycle in a nature documentary stylization.

I'm very glad they picked Gorbad, as I love his military style a lot more than Gorfang's!

My theory is just that when Gorbad was surrounded by the Dwarfen Throng, he was "rescued" by Khorne, who was able to get a very minute portal to bring him into his realm thanks to all the blood, rage, and copious skulls in the vicinity. Thus, Gorbad was able to fight in the realm of the Blood God, and because he was so badass, Khorne let him go back to the Old World, to see what other destruction he could bring, and if one of his chosen could beat the greatest Orc Warboss of all time!

Well azhag was my favorite orc but now gorbad sounds way cooler

I just say magic/warp nonsense. He got frozen/sent forward in time with Repanse strapped to his back. Tzeentch works in mysterious ways.

I like this style of video, thank you for taking the time to go through each source individually.

I'm more curious about if he's still got the same boar Gnarla. That's an 800 year old boar. Literally a Boar Demi-God. Edit: Also I would say there are reasonably excuses for the dead characters in TW:W so far... - Vlad with his ring - Repanse being a Saint - Grom getting regeneration and a longer life from Troll meat (stretch I know). Gorbad's kinda a weird one. He's like that Palpatine meme. But it doesn't really matter now, CA's made there choice. Interesting discussion though.

There's a timeline in The Old World rulebook that gives an approximate date of the Black Orcs rebellion in Zharr-Naggrund, but i don't have it on hand right now. Edit: Found it. Approxmate quote: **-150-** The First Black Orcs are seen at the forefront of Dawi-Zharr armies. Fifty years alter, they would lead a rebelliong against their masters, after which most will be pushed away from the Dark Lands

I still hope for Gorfang Rotgut at some point in the future, ever since I heard you talk about him. I think he also sounds quite interesting! :D

My headcanon that gorbad is avatar of mork

I mean this is good and all but where is Queek Headtaker? Andy is at well over 6k subs by now but I don't see it anywhere?

If we're drawing on end times lore, a major part of skarsnik's arc is that he feels himself getting cold, old, and tired as he gets older. He seems to be feeling the ill affects of age. Though that could just be his crazy intelligence inflicting him with the curse of mortality, basically using that greenskin waaaagh energy to accidentally make him age by being aware that other species age

I mean warhammer total war is a sandbox game I wouldn't really say whatever excuse they make for him being alive really matter for the bigger cannon but the discussion is still interesting. in my headcannon Greenskins are just ageless or close to it after all they are plants and wouldn't work the same way we do.

Simple. Gorbad Ironclaw is in the 8th Edition army book. He’s gets added to game. I love it.

_"The moons were high by the time he made it to the shaft"_ heh

These are the kind of vids I subbed for! LOVE IT!

My theory in connection to this DLC is that Gorbad was pulled into the realm of Khorne following his fight in Grunberg, and spent the next several centuries (though perhaps only feeling like months to Gorbad due to time dilation within the realms of Chaos) fighting in Khorne's realm before escaping to the mortal realm. This has caused U'zhul to enter the world in pursuit, as one of his marks has escaped him.

Gorbad was my favorite orc since back in fantasy times when I honestly didn't really care whatsoever for orcs (was a goblin only player). The total war series have since made me love the big green brutes, especially so with Azhag. I was over the moon with the Gorbad announcement though I worry and hope they do something similar to how they did some touch ups on the Empire with Azhag. While Gorbad used all greenskins to great effect in lore, his biggest and most unique effect on the tabletop was being able to bring any number of big 'uns to the army. Which is kinda what Azhag currently focus on as well in the campaign. Fear maybe he'll effectively just turn into flying Gorbad with less campaign mechanics lest they do something about it Maybe I'm getting a bit too greedy here though. Greenskins is already in a great place and I'm just pumped we're getting another update

Really great video man. I don't actually feel strongly about Grimgor's longevity (and concede that you're probably right) but I think there are a few important questions to ask. Firstly, how is an orc whos primary vocation in life is to throw himself into melee combat still alive after doing that for 2,500 years? You can argue that Grimgor's powerscale is roughly around the same as Vardek Crom after fighting him to a stale mate, who in the grand scheme of things isn't that big of a deal (but I never really cared for that piece of lore). You'd think someone would have done him in by now. Secondly we know how much damage a rampaging orc waagh can do, what with Gorbaad permanently destroying the imperial province of Soland. Where has Grimgor been all this time and what has he destroyed? We still have chaos dwarfs, ogre kingdoms, Cathay, ind kuresh etc. You would expect to see the permanent effects of waagh Grimgor somewhere in the world, especially if he's been doing it for 2,500 years. The real world answer for this I think is sadly just a lack of writing covering anywhere but the old world as you said but I'd be interested to hear other's opinions.

great video, love speculation videos

I like salty Sotek :) Giv'em hell! Also great video, appreciate you citing your sources

Grimgor, da one true git, and his Immortulz which have wandered with him since they won freedom

For the longest time in my early years of playing Warhammer, I had a theory/headcannon that Grimgor was, in fact, the returned Gorbad. Also, if the likes of Gorbad can be in the game, I demand that we see the soon return of Gorthor The BeastLord!

I've got nothing to back me up, but I like to think a "true" defeat has more impact, the bigger and more successful they are, and at some point a defeat just breaks them, and they if they didn't die they just wander off broken minded and perish rapidly, either becoming myth and legend or forgotten

Beautiful and enjoyable video

Love your lore videos

very nice video. Thanks

Finally a good lore video again

I like the ambiguity of Grimgor's origin even if it's confirmed he's from Zharr Naggrund. Maybe he led the revolt, but maybe it's just the opposite - perhaps the line about him being a "runt" is more than just a term of age, and he was the smallest of the Black Orcs, who bowed and scraped and whom the Dawi Zharr thought would never be a threat, one they allowed to escape. Maybe he took the axe from his enemies, or maybe the Dawi Zharr armed him themselves, foolishly thinking they could use him.

From what I can tell of this examination of Grimgor, he's basically the Greenskin equivalent of MEGATRON of all individuals. Something I did not anticipate at all.

The miniatures could be fielded against each other in the table top game, despite living hundreds of years apart in canon.

My prediction for Gorbad’s starting location would be his stronghold of Iron Rock

This DLC is a rare opportunity for CA to do the Mercenary machanic of the Ogres justice. I think acess to Maneaters should be made sooner with a tier 2 building variant Ogre Kingdoms - From Tier 2/3/4/5 Building Contract missions in the form of a battles similar maybe to the old Reinforce the Empire mechanic seige battle. Reward would be, besides gold, reputation, allegiance points, the option to add the recruit of a specific Maneater unit to a pool. This unit would be race specific depending on the faction of the completed mission. Additionally, recruitment costs and upkeep of that specific kind of unit could be reduced by 0-50%. Camps - besides ogre bulls, if allied with the Ogre faction, you would have access to the Maneaters race specific unit as a mercenary from one of their camps. Represented Races - Maneaters of the recruiting faction's race can be recruited from a camp belonging to an allied Ogre Faction. In addition, after reaching lvl 9 expirience lvl for an Ogre Bull Mercenary unit, the faction will receive a recuitable Maneater unit specific to their race in the global recruitment pool. Upon recruitment of that unit, if the Ogre Bull has not been disbanded already, this action disbands the Ogre Bull unit from the Lord's army. Maneaters would all have 16 models instead of the 24 of Bulls on ultra. I will give some ideas that coul be used for units and a description of the look: Tier from tier 2 building The Savage Bunch- Ogre Bulls 2H (Firebelly skin whitout the mask) Description: "Ogre Maneaters fighting alongside Savage Greenskins don't know if charging smeared in Warpaint and shouting "Wagh!" helps their chances of winning, but then again, it seems to work for the Orcs." Tier 2 Not AP but Frenzy , Warpaint 20% Ward save 16 models on ultra (Immunity to Badlands Attrition) Tier 3 (Butcher Model) Vampire Maneater "After being in the service of the undead, the Maneaters have found out that if they don't devour the enemy during the fight, the slain might rise up and service their employers, leaving them with no extra snacks for their unnatural hunger." Hunger (Immunity to Vampire Attrition) Kislev Maneater 3 "After countless battles alongside Kislev's armies the Maneaters have learned that the courage to stand and fight instead of running will allow one to win against overwhelming odds." By our blood Tier 4 Norscan Maneater (Hunter Model) Description: "Norscan contracts usually involve battling some sort of monster. Because of that, Maneaters have found that, besides matching the ferocity of the North men in combat, it does not hurt to have a javelin or two ready." Enrage Special Ranged Weapon (Immunity to Frozen Attrition) Tier 4 Empire Maneater (Irongut model) Description: "Since giving an ogre even the smallest amount of Sword training produces devastating results, any troops fighting alongside them will be confident in the thick of battle." 16 Models Encourage 40 Armor Tier 5 Dwarf Maneater Blasting Charge, Armored 110 Armor "There is a disagreement amongst Maneaters about what is the best part of fighting for dwarfs. Some say it is the dwarf ale, dwarf pay or dwarf equipment. Regardless all can agree that working for the dawi has multiple advantages." Just a few ideas. If not units, then at least ROR or a specific mechanic for Golg.

Hi Sotek, i love youre videos and you got me into warhammer! Still i cant get into 40k because i lack a Prophet like yourself to teach me the lore. How old was Grom when he reached Ulthuan? I still can grasp how long dod his wagh lasted

Did you get a new mic? your voice quality sounds awesome in this video

I come into this video for some Gorbad lore and I leave with my Grimgor love invigorated

God damn i'm happy they picked gorbad despite he being most likely dead in lore. Such a cool character that uses jack of all trades tactics instead of just heavily leaning into one set of units

On the notion of whenever Grom and Gorbad are still alive or not... I am leaning towards not, because it is not in any Warboss' personality to simply fade away. Like when in the lead up to Storm of Chaos, Grimgor finally lost a battle to Crom the Conqueror, he nearly drove himself up the walls because he couldn't have it, so he set about gathering his forces again to get even... Gorbad and Grom would have been of the same mind... they are not like Thanos who will just one day sit down an retire on a farm after a job well done. Gorbad I imagine did escape the dwarves, but his end came sometime later when some upstart worked up the nerve to challenge him, which is what usually happens between Orcs if the boss shows weakness. Grom I doubt ever made it off Ulthuan as the elves would have all the time in the world to kill every single greenskin they could, Grom however likely ended up starving to death in a cave somewhere after eating the few followers he had left. Grimgor is a bit of an odd one, because Black Orcs are not natural creatures, so we don't actually know if the fungal-growth birth actually applies to them. I doubt the Chaos Dwarves would have kept it, because it would mean they couldn't control the amount of Black Orcs they actually had. But at the same time, all of this is taking place a ridiculous long time ago and its kind of hard to believe the Black Orcs would not simply have gone extinct if they are not reproducing regardless of how many there were originally. But on the other hand, Grimgors own tale has him stagger our of an area that sounds like its fairly close to the Realm of Chaos, I know it does not quite fit the location in Immortal Empires, so it is possible Grimgor and his bodyguard got caught in one of the Realms expansions and simply warped through time to the present day rather than him remaining anonymous for 2500 years.

The real question I have is what the heck was Grimgor doing that whole time? Am I understanding right that he only seems to have shown up and become relevant recently in the timeline?

His name is Gorebad, meaning his own "gore" is "bad" meaning he doesn't want to get hurt in battle meaning he takes extra care not to get hurt, he also probably signed up for some expensive health insurance. That's why he lived so long.

Fun video and something interesting to think about for sure. So my personal take on the matter is that Gorbad died that day against the dwarfs but the way it happened caused the dwarfs to not want to speak about it to outsiders. Either someone important and loved died that day or Gorbad's death was in some way unsatisfactory especially in regards to the grudges against them. I also think that if he had lived to ET he would have been a candidate for avatar of Gork and Mork as well as an Incarnate. Him and Grimgor would have come to blows and one would have died with the other creating the super WAAAGH!!! Granted for TW I think it matters not if a character is introducted as long as it doesn't raise massive issues for other characters so no previous Everchosen's or Emperor's or the like thank you. Gorbad appearing also gives me hope for Gorthor though that would likely require Khazrak to receive a significant rework for both to fit in.

I would really liked if CA consider adding to the game a mechanic in which when a ll confederation is happening u get some sort of a permenant buff compatibale with the ll u just confederated. It could make confederation so much cooler! Ur thoughts sotek?

Bro was just on a long vacation.

Random thought, are blackorks what happens when greenskins get "corrupted" by chaos? If all of them were created with nagic (originally) that feels like wat is implied.

I suspect he'll start the game with sone debuffs to his stats and public order as he's still suffering from the wound and struggling to keep da boiz in line. Then using some macguffin that Golgfag likely also wants, he can heal himself Maybe your goblin shamans can brew healing potions that bring him back up to snuff for several turns the way malus used to work, but hes even more useless after it wears off for several turns as hes pushed his body to the limit, atleast until hes healed his wound Edit: maybe an artifact called like the 'chalice of blood' or something, a powerful khornate artifact where if you fill it with the blood of worthy foes it slakes all thirst and hunger, and heals all injury, with its purpose being to let khornate champions subsist only on battle Skulltaker would want favor with his master by reclaiming it and using it for himself, Gorbad wants it to heal his wound so he can restart the Waaagh! And get revenge on the oomies and stunties, and Golgfag would want it because it could satiate his hunger, atleast for a time, and then he'd sell it to the highest bidder lol In immortal empire's it could also be an artifact like the sword of khaine or nemesis crown that spreads khorne corruption but heals your lord to full after a battle, gives them regen in battle, and probably some other melee buffs

I really like the idea of Ironclaw limping east, becoming a boogeyman for another empire across the world and seeking a cure for his runefang wound. Tbh his pig's age would bother me more. Though he could just be an uncreative namer.

Why do people ever doubt the loremaster❤🎉

This is kinda making me hope that he comes back after the wound

I still think everyone's overthinking it: he fell down a big hole, & it took him 800 years to climb out.

Lol dude cursing at literal ghost 27:20

Repanse was explained as being a successor to the original Repanse iirc

30:33 Infernal Seneschals, who are those?

Thank you for a thoughtful analysis of da greenies! I have always loved the prospect of Greenskins being biologically immortal, because that more or less answers any potential vagaries surrounding them. "Why is it their instinct to fight everything all the time, even each other?" Well wouldn't you, if you never felt pain and yet nonetheless your earliest memory was 12 dudes kicking the shit out of you? Dat's just "normal" mate. It's just the ultimate power for the Universal Foe.

Sotek. You the man. Also indypride. Your fucking hilarious

In a world with Dragons, undead and magic and some folks worry how realistic we should be with age 😂

Sotek! You must demand CA make gorfang rotgut an flc! He’s already in game. He just needs to be immortal, have a skill tree, can be confederated, and implemented in MP. That could be accomplished in an single day. A campaign is not necessary. Just make him a sudo LL

28:50 I'm sorry, but what you're saying isn't supported by the quote here. Not that I have a different theory, but from a grammar perspective; 'them' refers to the subject or object of the previous sentence, which was the Black Orcs and goblins rebelling, which isn't necessarily "all black orcs". That's who were removed forever. It then goes on to say that "Many" Black Orcs escaped, and that the Chorfs "destroyed many" Black Orcs. It seems intentionally very vague to me.

I'm just saying orks are plants and from the info you were giving it sounds like they are somewhat based on three growth as they can grow very tall if the have no competition and they live for hundreds of years just look at redwoods and some jungle trees

If he still alive and fighting he would be titanic.

I did look into this a while back, since a lot of people were saying he died in lore. Thing is the Empire or Dwarfs found some of his items in the mountains iirc but his body was never found. I looked into Orc/Ork biology and in lore no one actually knows how long greenskins can live, none have ever been recorded as dying of old age, they've always died from combat. So for all we know greenskins could actually be immortal if they don't die from wounds or diseases.

Era of activity didn't matter for Vladabella or Repanse, why should it for an orky boi?

Isn't there a famous hobgoblin khan who died of old age?

So is the Queek video cancelled or?

I like angry loremaster

All this talk of greenskins, ogres and khorne. As a rat enjoyer, I merely bide my time until Skreech Verminking is mine. (and he best be a damn LL)

Ain there ar story about Hobgoblin die at old age??

I thought orks just get bigger arder and badder as they get old.they don’t weaken and die.never read that anywhere 😅

But Sotek! Only Elves can live a long time! Orcs live fast and die young! That's the rules! Except... not even the rules for Tolkien's Uruks (debatably). So... yeah.

I mean hey all the Vamps are dead so fuck it. BRING THE BIG BOY IN!

Saying hobgoblins aren't slaves is a stretch

I love the lore, and love hearing your thoughts and ramblings on all of this - but ultimately for me the only approach for this series is a total chronological disregard. Take what you want from the history of the setting, take what you want from Storm of Chaos and the End Times and every other imaginable source, if GW ever chills out and realises that nobody will ever make or want an AoS total war game then take what you want from AoS. Use the full breadth of the setting as a grab bag, treat the game as an all-stars team or greatest hits album, don't specify a date or chronology, but throw in whatever lore contrivances you can think up to explain the more egregious stuff (as they did very well with Repanse) - treat this as a war between all the gods with all the major deities raising their greatest historical champions for the fight. Ultimately have fun with it, that's what Warhammer as a setting was made for - a fun setting where you can throw in every fantasy trope or mythological tradition imaginable and pit them all against each other with total flexibility to any vs any the factions - no matchup is off-limits and that should go for characters as well as factions. This isn't LotR where Rivendell and Lothlorien shouldn't really be fighting or where Isildur shouldn't be on the same battlefield as Theoden (though I think people take the two-sides-stuff a bit too seriously as a barrier to LotR grand strategy games, conflicts between the free peoples are absolutely part of Tolkien's vision as is infighting on the evil side). This is all to say, I continue to love what CA are doing with this series since the SoC apology and expansion, and I'm so glad that the last hurrah of doomscrolling hate-fandom from the supposed leaks turned out to be a load of hot nonsense. We're on the right track.

I have my personal headcannon that Gorbad was brought to the realm of khorne or mork and gork, and he continued rampaging which continued to extend his life since he would continue to be the strongest orc in the warband, in my mind orcs are kinda like immortal jellyfish in which they can theoretically live forever but usually die by fighting long before the limits of this is tested

I'm just taking the angle that TWW isn't Canon, and having stats in 8th edition WFB matters more than being alive in the timeline. Vlad and Isabella are supposed to be dead, Grom is supposed to be dead, Azhag is supposed to be dead, repanse should've been dead for forever, none of it matters, because this is supposed to be a fun game where they all get to fight. When Star Wars: Empire at War gave the rebel faction both Obi-Wan and Luke as Jedi heroes in its roster, it's not worth complaining, despite the fact that that just doesn't work with the timeline. It doesn't need to, and it doesn't matter.

Isn't Grom dead?

wheres queek

As soon as Repanse made it into the game I knew when a character existed in the timeline was irrelevant.

He spilled blood and collected skulls when he shat on the empire, so Khorne yoinked him into the chaos realms. He is now the fantasy version of Daemonkilla. Calling it now

I’m not concerned about age, but the fact that a badass Orc would randomly vanish off the face of the world for 800 years. Never having returned to the Old World. I really like the idea that he got sucked into the Realm of Khorne, spent an unknown time there, and got spit out 800 years later; similar to a small orange fellow we know and love.

Whatever exas for him to be LL in TWW is fine. The cusen lore seem to suggest that creen skin can live forever as long as there fighting and winning. But with this lore it seems that there should be a bigger penalty for greenskins when they lose and especially when a WHA collapse, it should probable lead to a weakening of the greenskin or maybe even death. Personally i think GW should change it so the greenskin livs for a fue hundred of years maybe att the top end a thousand year. think there are too many species that don't die of age in Warhammer.

Who cares? Does he go "Waaaaagh" and does he crump?

Hello, buzzer.

Gorbad is cool. Grimgor is cool. The new DLC is probably cool. Who cares about made up rules.

Not gonna watch this video since you said don't try hard to make sense of it.

Dem Reddit Gitz ‘r gonna get it boss!

Dudes got a real chip on his shoulder about what reddit has to say. For someone calling himself 'lore master' he sure doesn't like being questioned. Im here to listen to you talk about warhammer, not offer snide insults to a group of people. If tgey bother you this much, perhaps they have a point...