Honestly, i've had better experiences teaching my sister to play this game than my brother since she has no pre-conceived notions about how a card game is supposed to be like whereas my brother is really into MTG (so a lot of the mechanics are harder for him to grasp). That's pretty much the only reason I was able to grasp Yugioh as a beginner, I had experience playing Vanguard first which mechanically is a fairly similar game. Your main unit in Vanguard is basically just a big ass XYZ monster and you just play monsters from your hand with no cost (there's no equivalents to spells in that game before OverDress, every deck is basically Superheavy Samurai to some extent) or use them as shields by discarding them from your hand during battle to protect your life points. Going into your extra deck also requires sacking cards from your hand that add up to 3 grade ratings (which is basically your monster's level, it ranges from 0-3 and your extra deck monsters are all grade 4), which is how that game avoids extra deck spamming since you can only normally get out 1 extra deck monster per turn. Like, if Yugioh is a game of Blazblue, then Vanguard is a game of Punch-Out.
@@four-en-teeyeah. Yu-Gi-Oh was pretty simple to me as someone who only previously tried out Pokémon. There's nothing worse to hinder your Yu-Gi-Oh experience than mana
So I was sitting down thinking for a good example to bring up as to how complex the game is.. and then I remembered engines exist. I remember being on MD, seeing someone play the Punk engine starter (Ze Amin?) And my immediate thought was "Oh goddamnit, is this zombie turbo or Bishbaalkin?" My second thought was "if someone was with me watching me play, how could I possibly explain why seeing a psychic cyberpunk musician told me they were playing a zombie deck?" And had no good answer lol
Not disagreeing with the complexity of Yugioh part, but this point in particular its not too different in a much simpler game like Pokemon, if my opponent puts bidoof, Arceus V or a bunch of sobbles in bench turn one (when that was legal) you still don't have a great idea of what they are playing because those are engines used in a lot of different decks.
if you play yu-g-ioh often,like even just once per week u can tell meta changes and small things in them,or even non meta ones that you encounter the thing is about yugioh right now is we really have very little amount of variety in decks to where u just know "Oh shit, it's this deck" even if you had only seen it once yourself as you likely saw it online in a match or on a deck list.that is why you likely you saw the card out of a commonly used pool of cards said "Oh no... its this card.." due to that most likely you have already seen something almost identical.
Trying to get someone into yugioh who has no prior idea how it works now is almost a fools errand if they arent already into it. Its so complicated and I barely know whats going on and ive been following the game/property since 1999. It's not an environment for new players unless they are prepared to go thru the slog of learning obscure facts thru trial and error. It turns people off obscenely fast
Agreed. My girlfriend wants to learn the game. She knows the basics, but this right here is why I'm unsure if I should. There's so much that is left to learn by trial and error, and blah blah blah, so it would get boring extremely fast. There's no reason that a game that relies on new players to keep it afloat should have MT Everest as its learning curve and/or new player experience. That just makes no sense to me.
A big part is all the spin-offs. Rush/Speed/Cross/Master Duel Links were all created to be a more accessible point of entry. Konami, however, keeps them entirely separate, so you can't go from one of those to the main game. Overall, Konami does a good job getting people into the franchise, just not the TCG in particular.
I've played ygo my entire life, with years off like most people. I got into hobby board gaming and while visiting target, I saw a board gamey Pokémon box. It had three decks, and a two player playmat, made of hard cardboard. For $15, I got a thick two player playmat, three decks, boxes for said decks, counters, and a coin to use for flipping. I learned the rules in one evening. Pokémon has become a fun pick up and play game in my collection with this box. I really wish yugioh had something like this. A full version of the game that can be purchased and stored in one box.
@@MintyITG Speed Duels are fun but Konami is ass with promoting anything outside of the regular format :/ Duel Links still hasn't made progression better compared to Mastet Duel.
Similar to old-school adventure games, Yugioh decks have a correct/optimal path, through them. Also like old-school adventure games, that path usually seems like an arbitrary sequence of different events. We just have to accept that most of us have spent years learning the routes and that it willl take new players the same amount of time.
Its also sometimes up to the broken mentalizy of some players i remember when the dogmatika package was coming out and ppl in the comment section really said: oh boi, an engine for ONLY 300 bucks, how cheap! Bro...
I started yugioh in 2020, when I first started I had no idea what was going, I was fortunate that my high schools players were all at a very low level, there was one guy who had a fusion deck and another couple with xyz so when I first started I learnt 2 extra deck mechanics, when someone bought the ice barriers deck I was really confused, I only managed to pick up and learn the game due to each mechanic being learnt one at a time, I was taught the basics of magic commander in a couple of hours where we played maybe 3 games, yugioh took me months surrounded by players who had played for years while magic took me an afternoon
@@simplyyunak3189 Yu-Gi-Oh is complicated but has it's merits, I love the fast play styles and searching for synergies between cards, I also love looking at New reveals and trying to map out the combos to see whether they have potential, it's taken a lot of time but Yu-Gi-Oh is an amazing game once you get over the learning curve
After switching from Pokemon TCG to Yu-G-Oh after about 7 years, I did have one massive complaint of Pokemon that didn't exist as much in Yu-Gi-Oh. With the game being so cheap there is 0 reason in my eyes to ever experiment or do something even relating to the idea of just either playing with favourites or playing something kinda jank, you are only playing the good decks. Basically there is no concept of Table 500 and coming to Yu-Gi-Oh its something i greatly enjoyed coming to the game.
That speaks more of you. Everyone I know builds their Pokémon decks around their favorite Pokémon. That’s the benefit. In yugioh you can only do stuff like that in a casual friend game similar to MTG commander.
@@ganymedehedgehog371 i mean from my playing experience most of my friends and other people i played in paper play were either playing Meta or the World Championship decks. And for a really long time an Arcanine/Raichu core i just didn’t think was good enough. (And if i wanted to spice it up Charizard was nearly always expensive.) Didn’t help that post 2021 I ended up playing more on ladder than being able to do so on paper play.
Meanwhile in Mexico I'll play salamangreat/dragon link/spellcaster soup until the heath death of the universe, getting a forever deck that you enjoy is a great feeling only Yu-Gi-Oh has Decks can be cheap if you want to, hell you only need to buy stapples/upgrades for a forever deck like twice a year if it gets some support
I personally play Magic, it has a great variety of formats to cover a large portion of the player base and their needs. Commander is the casual format for social play that can be anywhere from $10 up to $10,000. There is a format called Pauper which only uses Common cards and so is very accessible price wise but still powerful and competitive. The majority of costs for older formats such as Legacy and Vintage are from something called the 'Reserve List', a promise Wizards of the Coast made to not reprint certain cards which raises the prices on the secondary market. For Modern there are specific staple cards like Ragavan, Sheoldred and the Shock Lands which are in high demand across many formats and commander which contributes to inflating the prices. The only real way to combat this is with reprints
Yugioh could really help it’s new player experience if it either properly invested in alternate formats that help explain the emerging complexities of Yugioh in more controlled formats, or if it pulled a Rush Duels and altered the card formatting and rules to be somewhat simpler and more intuitive.
Yugiog is the TCG equivalent of a Fighting Game you have to put in the time to practice and learn and take beating after beating after beating just to then be able to be semi decent at the game
I think it's more like MTG, HS, LoR, etc are more similar to Street Fighter, KOF or Under Night in Birth where if you see a character's special moves and if you have enough experience, you kinda already know what they're gonna do. Are they a shoto? Do they want to zone? Do they want to rush you down? Yugioh is more like Tekken where a character with 70 moves is considered low, ucky Chloe has 2 hopkicks for some reason, the "generics" like df1 and df2 is slightly different for every character(in which some character's df1 is their df2 and vice versa), there's sidestepping, etc. Also you can't see Steve's move list and realize he wants to counter hit or see Bryan's and know he wants to do the closest thing to what zoning is in Tekken feels very Yugioh to me.
@@guestguest9051 for me it's Marvel Vs Capcom but the amount of effort required in the other FGs you mentioned is still vastly more than those card games just because there's the Frame data and such involved and much more in learning your character like YGO with specific decks
@MoodyBlag I agree that it's much more difficult to play fighting games, sure but I don't think the issue is frame data. For example, say in Strive and you go against May and she uses her dolphin. Just knowing "fast = minus" and "slow = plus" is usually enough. You don't have to exactly know they're -3 and +7 or that Honda's EX headbutt is "very punishable" but you don't need to know it's -20, which overall makes things pretty reasonable to remember as long as you put time in the game. Hell for some games like Marvel or DBFZ, 90% of the time your assist makes you plus anyway. The reason why it's hard is that fighting games are simply fast paced. You have to know all this and execute things immediately during the match itself but at its core, I don't think it's any harder to learn frame data of an FG matchup than a combo in Yugioh. Executing them though, I agree it's harder in FGs
And that is why Speed Duel exists. We need more support for it from Konami, but Speed Duel is a simplified, slower verson of the TCG, and it teaches you eveything you need to know for the proper TCG.
I've been following yugitubers for about 5 years now and I've never played the game since I was 15 (about 8 years ago). The closest I got to play were the GBA games because it takes exponentially less time to learn old formats rather than try to understand what 20 min first turn overkill combo I need to prepare for in the modern meta
That guitar analogy is stupid because if I start picking up guitar I don't fight someone else that might have played for 10 years and has that $6000 Gibson
I love Yugioh, Magic, Pokemon, AND Hearthstone. I play/collect none of them because even just having 1 as a hobby is a massive money sink. I just watch content creators for the game and wish I could participate :(
Another thing to note is target audiences. Pokemon has to be cheaper because the target audience is that much younger. Yugioh's target audience are (from what I've observed) people who have grown up with the anime and now have the money for it. Magic is for whales and "investors".
This is based on ocg land price Pokémon regigigas core 250k indonesian rupiah Solfachord core(with electrum etc mostly missing handtraps) 400k idr Zendikar rising attack mtg commander pack 400k idr Cost wise yugioh is still like the cheapest among all of them even deck like ksatrila probably will cost me around 300-500 I honestly don't know if yugioh tcg is expensive.
Pretty sure another major espect of pokemon's price other than a decent amount of your generic trainers and support cards being available at butt ass ugly common, is the fact it has its own whales (and children) that are constantly opening product for the cool cards, but not to play, and they sell off the chaff. Like i swear, for one of my local shops, for every 100-500 visits of people looking to complete a master set or just randomly rip, theres like, 1 looking to finish his pokemon deck
I don't think that is exactly true. The "target" audience is posted on the packs or at least they used to be. Ygo is marketed for teenagers and children and always has been. Most card games however are filled with more adults than children.
Debatable on what Yugioh's target audience is. I mean, the recent Sevens anime is the most targeted to kids one they've had in a long time. It feels like YGO only panders to the nostalgic fanbase when it does legacy support... which Pokemon still does anyway too with their forms for old mons and such.
There should not be a debate at all which card game is the best, in reality each game is different for each persons mindset on how they want to defeat their opponent, Pokémon: fun friendly game where you have to be patient and learn combos with out having a harsh mechanic Magic:Building massive armies, dealing spell damage in a chess like setting thats easy to learn Yugioh: pulling off massive combos and killing your opponent by having 5 steps ahead of them mindset. Neither are good or bad it just depends on your mindset. Want to have an easy time play Pokémon, want a challenge play Magic, want to feel sophisticated and unlock your 3 eye brain wave then play Yugioh. Since Yugioh is a hard game to master introducing it to new players will be hard because its a higher brain tolerance game, that doesn't make it a bad game. If you are up to leaning it do so if not then the games not ment for you. Im a magic player and i been learning it for 4 months and i still have no idea what im doing but im still going forward into learning because its a different skill level from magic and i like it and dont mind putting the energy to learning. No one card game is bad or good just different environment and thought process. Having all these different YT ranting how thier game is better is just silly.
Yep, exactly. But I want to add one thing based on my experience. Not only different TCG have different mindset on victory, they have different standardization of card text. This is why it can be hard to transfer from one TCG to another. Like, I've got really close to the way Yugioh explains it's cards so now seeing how for example Runetera and Magic explain cards makes me uncomfortable. Their ways is not worse, they're just different.
I remember back in the day of Dragon Ball Super, around set 6, some mad lad topped with some $30 Green/Yellow deck with Golden Frieza from set one. Strat used some starter deck Cheelai cards with some bulk Lemo cards and some low cost Friezas as a value engine with an unwanted Tagoma promo. You'd win with an unused Android 13 card for Agents of Destruction which you could use to clear board and hand and slowly starve the opponent. It was beautiful because all of the cards were out for a while, but no one put two and two together until this mad lad. Now you'll see a mono yellow set one Golden Frieza pop up and top because of how much value the leader generates for the player. Not sure about its build or price but it's a reliable leader to build. Too bad we have no idea what will happen after the reboot. Yu-Gi-Oh is for those who are willing to sit down and read the cards to understand the game plan of their own and their opponent's decks to get their win con. The big difference is the speed and how few inputs there are due to the few turns that take place.
I'm a master duel only player when it comes to yu gi oh, I tried to move to tcg but my local scene is dead and a single tcg deck would cost me more then my computer. I also played a lot of pokémon and it was my time of the week to see friends and it helped me during some dark times, just having that day where I went down to a fucking burger king to play with then was a high point for me. I got into magic couse I like the idea of commander and I had a deck a friend sold me for very cheap, I'm talking less then 100 reais what is like less then 20 USD. I went to the store to played it once and even tho I was playing a format with 3 other players on the table and had only played 1 V 1 formats on Arena I could just translate the abilities I picked up in other formats to it. I live yu gi oh as a brand, and probably will keep playing it for a long time, but the game needs a revamp in design or it won't last wirh it's current relevance for a long time, and before anyone say it no rush duel nor speed duel are the answer.
My biggest reason I switched to pokemon was the game is cheaper and has gotten more complex and that yugioh feels too complex for me now and around 60% of games fall into this weird situation where the either side has to have the one card which stops the opponent completely and half of that time it’s a non engine card.
I imagine a new player getting into yugioh is very difficult. I've played/collected the card game since it came out. And I had kind of a pick it up and put it down attitude, where I would leave and come back. Every time I came back, there was a new mechanic....I understood synchro, then xyz seemed balanced at first (need material to use effects) but then they started getting effects that don't need material, or ya know....zues...wipe field....Pendulums.....broken.....master rule 4 nerfed everything but links.....what's a link? Negates...hand traps....hand looping....play on your turn....special summon endlessly, but the effect qualified it as a normal summon(floo), shuffle cards, now zone lock.....It's a lot to teach someone.....
the treadmill of managing a physical card collection in my small home space, plus the complete absence of any local scene within 40 miles of my house, is why I have more interest in Master Duel than TCG. it'd be fun to play with friends if all my friends lived in the same state as me. so yeah, online or bust, for me
I think Konami should focus budget options on Structure Decks. Traptrix, Dinos, Monarchs, Salads, Shaddolls, Branded, Konami technically CAN make budget options where you only need 3 Structure Decks and do well in locals, maybe regionals. I think they shouldn’t waste their time on bad Structure Decks like Charmers, Geargia, etc.
Unfortunately if they do that the deck would be expensive because the greedy people would buy out the cards that go with the deck and people would have to pay a lot of money for the cards that didn't come in the Structure deck (even if they were cheap before the structure deck came out)
@@squishysnailThis tbh. I'd rather have a 25-30 box price of a 50 card deck (so you can flex some spots) or whatever without all the garbage fluff in it. Give me 3 copies of the engine cards I would get from 3 structures anyway and whatnot.
@snakevenom56 people also expect structures to be.....good so I don't think the vote is the problem. Structures get like 8 cards or whatever to work with (which they could always increase) and it isn't like charmers had a necessarily bad foundation. Konami made a T1 deck out of Thunder Dragon which was literally 2 cards for an archetype. Dinosmasher's Fury only really had the baby dinos and fossil dig to work with as a base.
I remember when starter decks first came out in the U.S. they were $8-12 how you can buy a single copy of a card your deck needs for $120. I generally just buy singles, certain times a year card prices go down across the board and thats when i do card shopping. I weekly watch prices fluctuate on market and get them from venders when prices are lower. But for real its not new player friendly and its an expensive hobby.
When i got back into the game probably abt 2016 i was playing on ygo pro just before it turned into ygo2 and most of my friends had no idea how to play and could not beat RDA before crimson resonator was released. It took em a year to even come close to beating my deck without me using calamity lock. Now we all play various decks thanks to master duel teaching my friends that i wasnt actually railing them in our duels, i just have more card knowledge
If anyone wants to get into ygo i tell them to buy 3 traptrix structures, 3 parallel exceeds, and a zeus. That’s like $50 and you can win games in locals with that decklist
most people gonna run the latest meta even at locals so you wouldn't even get past turn 1 but good job getting somebody to quit the game cause after they get stomped without even having a turn they really gonna love the game
I play all three on and off. Magic is my main game, but I want to switch to Pokemon or at least split my attention between them. Alongside that, I just occasionally play yugioh (master duel) because I did when I was a kid and like the nostalgia. But my biggest problem with yugioh is that it feels like solitaire. I mean, I guess maybe it's because I play Umi Control. But there's very little back and forth even when I'm playing Fur Hire and Dragonmaids. I'm kinda waiting for Purrely to reach master duel, and I want to build Tearlaments. But I fear it's just going to be more solitaire gameplay: either I did the thing, or my opponent stopped me from doing the thing. And if I did the thing, I am guaranteed to have cards that say my opponent can't do the thing if I went first and can't win. It's kinda frustrating, because it feels the least in my control out of any card game in my opinion. Even in higher competition tiers of mtg, it feels like the game is interactive and meaningful. I just don't get that feeling from yugioh.
I started the tcg 2 months ago after CYAC. I started with master duel about a year ago. Learning the game took a while but I had a headstart because I knew the game until the synchro era so just had to learn the mew mechanics. In terms of getting into the tcg, I started with dragon link, spending about £300 to get started. At this point I've spent maybe £7-800, pretty much all of it on staples and extra deck cards, I still only have the 1 deck. However I'm still learning the actual meta and stuff so I have no interest in picking up new decks, I just want to play. Playing twice a week at locals is fine for now. I have no idea how I would get someone into the tcg without a background in yugioh or months/years to teach them.
It's funny I basically played Pokemon before Yugioh and most of these bad obscure things about Yugioh I lowkey like in terms of gameplay but I'm a weirdo hahahaha
As someone who used to play Yugioh up until just before the pendulum mechanic got released then switched to MTG, I generally dislike the way that I have to have a completely different deck every so often because the meta changes so often in Yugioh. like in MTG i play pioneer (modern is just too fast for me), and i've been running a mill deck every time, the cards in the deck sometimes shuffle around based on new releases and such, but its always good and its always the same mechanic i use. Yugioh has an ever expanding list of archetypes that get stronger and faster that my favourite deck i always wanted played back then, which was various versions of Yubel deck, that when one engine was obsolete (IE: Yubel Chaos) i had to put in a whole new archetype into the deck, changing how it played completely. I just wanted to use Yubel man, was that too much to ask? (apparently, yes)
It might have been from a playground observer, but it has always been an unaproachable game with a huge gao between casual and competetive. I heard the same ting abput YGO bieng easier, but then my MTG comunity players trying yugioh ended up being "this is too complicated for no reason (we are talking early GX era)" And my Yugioh friends trying MTG were like "So, magic is basically just drop land and play a thing, then next turn do the same for a bigger thing until you run out of cards to play?"
I'd say the biggest difference between YGO and MTG in terms of complexity is MTG has well-known other formats and YGO just has one. If you want to learn Magic for the very first time, you don't need to look hard to learn there's different play formats, some considered easier than others. And if you have a friend who plays MTG it's even easier. I've played YGO or a long time and only last year did I learn that people play older easier formats, but only certain places that you have to find and download, oh and it's never official so don't expect to easily find help for it either.
yugioh has not been a casual game since the gx era the game has largely only been meta focused since 5ds era with each following generation being more and more faster then the prior most of yugioh's history is that of a extremely fast paced game played by diehards if you dislike that reality then go pokemon TCG cause there's no such thing as a causual yugioh these days
As an Investor you can make yourself a big investment in buying the right cards at the right time. As a player you loose money anyway. I am both. I got 4-5 Meta Decks and many binders full of High Rare Cards. My binders get more expensive everyday. But it takes only one list and my decks are worth nothing..😂 I guess you have to love this game and cards. But I can confirm, I play Yu-Gi-Oh! since day one and holy sh*t I am so addictet. Especeally because nowadays I got the money to get (almost) every card I like. Back in the days you saw these cool monsters on the show and you wanted nothing more to get your hand on them… 😂 But to be fair. I got friendships since day one because of this game. I got to know soooo many cool and nice people because of this game. I love it and only seeing some cards brings so many great memorys back. I would never ever start to play it now. But as it was a big part of my childhood I will never quiet it either. Great video. Thanks for your work!
I’m a former YuGiOh player, played since I was a child and played seriously since 2013 until 2018. I played some master duel and duel links too and got to the top several times in both. But then it just got so boring. I needed a new TCG and I found Digimon TCG. It’s the best, cheap (meta decks can be around 30-80 usd obviously not max rarity), easy to learn, fun to play, has tons of variety, tons of different playstyles, and has a nice community. Not big tho, but nice. Since I started playing I’ve built 9 different decks, each with a different play style, and I feel like every month I can easily build another one if I wanted, it’s really really cheap. Btw I don’t know a thing about Digimon, I remember watching some episodes as a child but not more than that, so I don’t even have that bias that some have. So if you’re looking for a cheap, fun and interesting TCG, come to Digimon.
Another thing is pokemon is super expensive to collect but cheap to play because they print a card on a lower rarity and a higher rarity in the same set with full arts, rainbow and gold rare variations. I got a full 1 of set of base sword and shield with about 4 booster boxes but if I wanted a full collection of all rarities it would be significantly more expensive.
Which is why I like the budget deck builds for Yugioh but unfortunately most of the staples will cost you a ton of money to get multiple copies of so for a player starting out that is bad. Yugioh starter decks need to be updated so that players can get these staples from picking up a deck and while you get 40 cards for $13 that starter deck will still need an update to even be playable. I still like Yugioh even if I haven't played a game in years and I still get the cards so maybe I should look through my collection and build a new budget deck.😊
well it's a game for diehards really, if you willing to put up with all the bad game design and all the costs related to playing it irl then your not really as tolerant as your average person just trying out
My problem with the mtg vs yugioh disscussion that i see too often is that "mtg doesnt have floodgates" like, no? It definately does. Drana & Linvala? Kuronos? But at least in mtg though there usually a chance to get rid of these cards typically. And honestly i dont think we necissarily need more backrow removal i think we need specific hate cards that arent like super generic. Like kinda make a negate but specifically for like continuous traps or something.
I think one of the fundamental problems with Yugioh is the complexity and subtleties of card effects. For example, there's the lack of standardization of removal effects. There's destruction and non-destruction (eg. destroys versus "sends to the graveyard"), targeting and non-targeting, for cost or for effect, and so on. You could take a lineup of boss monsters with effects that all achieve the same fundamental effect (removing an opponent's monster from a field), but you basically have to be a lawyer to parse through the variations in phrasing to figure out whether or not your counter strategy can actually interact with any given effect. If at the very least the requirement to target affected cards was the standard, that would do so much for helping new players understand higher level play. The main differentiating factor between top tier and low tier decks is access to non-targeting and non-destruction negates and removals. This goes hand in hand with the lack of more comprehensive keywords. So much of card effect text is just clarifying whether or not each card effect is once per turn, and it if it is, whether or not it is a soft or hard once per turn. If there were a simple shorthand for this, it would drastically reduce the size of most effect text boxes and improve readability. Likewise with graveyard effects or non-field effects.
I mean it’s not too off base, if you want to play guitar professionally you won’t get far with a 100 dollar Squier Stratocaster. You’re gonna need to spend some money on a better quality guitar at some point
@@ZeroGoofs in guitars you have beginner options under $250, budget professional options under $1000, semi-deluxe options like the $6000 mentioned and luxury options that go above $6000. The "competitive" guitar costs around the same as a ygo deck but it's a musical instrument vs. literal cardboard. Also you don't need to replace the competitive guitar every 6 months because of a banlist or powercreep.
@@hannsandres that’s the point, as you improve you can spend more money to enter new levels of guitar quality. All he’s saying is it wouldn’t really make sense to buy a top of the line model for someone not even sure if guitar is for them. It’s not a one to one comparison monetarily obviously but the idea follows in terms of a hobby
yugioh pretty much has to played competitively unless you wanna sit in a room and duel yourself outside of that you gotta play meta or get ftk turn 1 even in locals cause in Yu-Gi-Oh there is only meta no causual go on master duel causual and tell me how causual half these combo decks are
you don't need to play a high end guitar anything works really cause it's just a thing your going to be doing by yourself with yugioh you gotta actually compete against other people and those people gonna all be running the latest meta deck so if you wanna actually win then you also gotta buy the latest sets you ain't gonna get by on some 45 dollar galaxy eyes deck on eBay you gotta play the expensive decks if you wanna win where that just ain't the case with guitars you can play a junk guitar and still make it work same ain't true with yugioh
I have a different take. Unlike with magic or pokemon, I'm not playing a "pile" of cards, even if I ran max of each I can. But with yugioh archetypes let's me actually combo from my deck. In magic I need to run tutors or pure draw power, with pokemon it really comes down to just hoping the 1 card you need isn't in the 7 cards you don't have access to unless you defeat your opponents boss mon
I think it's important for Yugioh to NOT be like other card games, because being like other card games means you might just end up being ANOTHER MTG clone. Good or bad, I think card games having their own identities make them more appealing to others. Set rotation works on other card games because it autocorrects the formats before it by unilaterally banning the previous couple sets. In Yugioh, the game without set rotation means that certain cards will fade in and out of the format because the format presents itself in a unique way. Like, some formats want you to use Effect Veiler, but others you might be more inclined to use Ghost Ogre.
Honestly I’ve NEVER experienced this problem. I avoid the meta like the degenerate plague it is so most decks I have any sort of interest in aren’t anywhere near that expensive
The real reason Pokemon is cheap has nothing to do with TPC's ability to make money elsewhere. It's because trainer staples are perpetually reprinted so all you ever have to spend on are the Pokemon themselves and whatever new staple your deck plays. Half of all decks are comprised of cards with dozens of reprints that are all dirt cheap.
I firmly belive that even with yugioh being as complex as it is, and even with it's specific target audience, it absolutely needs to do better to get new players into it. This especilly applies to MD.
I used to like yugioh, because I could use cards from my packs. Now it just feels like I gotta listen to someone and play in place of someone else. thats what changed for me.
Yu-Gi-Oh is all the worst aspects of "Because I said so," and "That's just the way it is,". "So and so's effect doesn't activate because it says when not then," is the type of Yu-gi-Oh bull**** that made me stop playing when Marshmallon was new. Spend more time deciding rulings and semantics. Yu-gi-Oh is as much an asspull in real life TODAY, as the duelist kingdom was ON TV twenty years ago. "I send my catapult turtle shooting towards your tower in the sky" type shit
Master Duel is a miracle in introducing existing players to the modern format, both in hand-holding-mechanics and price. Older popular formats (Goat, Edison etc.) need to be supported to the same extent so that players can progress through the history of yugioh and slowly learn. What's Farfa trying to say - "Yugioh isnt expensive for your first 200 hours, it just gets very expensive when you actually get good and want to try lots of new meta stuff" ? It's an insult to people's time if they dont know this when starting and then get priced out after spending hundreds of hours. Its like pretending that skiing or golfing isnt expensive as a hobby until you actually get skilled at it. It sounds like he's fallen majorly for Sunk Cost Fallacy where he loved yugioh so much, that by the time he found out the expensiveness he was too addicted to stop.
The points you are making are ALL correct except for the pokemon thing; you have no idea how huge pokemon TCG is in Japan and how much money it makes; it's not cheaper because the game can afford to do it, it's cheap because the meta decks are cheap while there are good valuable chase cards for collectors in the set which is the exact thing you see in Bandai's TCGs and Weiss Schwarz.
I tried to get into yugioh and in one match I had a nice 1900 atk beat stick on my side and trap hole faced down. 😎 i thought I was set. Then my opponent went on to summon 8 monsters that had flip effects, extra deck summons, graveyard banishment, reveal card effects, negate trap effects, and at this point I was already dead he could just attack me and I lose but no he keeps going resummoning higher atk monsters and using spell cards and I’m just like wtf is going on just kill me already! I just quit the game and uninstalled.
most people aren't gonna start the playing the game for the first time if they already had a huge friend group that was into it besides when I played it was in high school with my friends since then not really
The sad part about the whole online "discussion" is that most people completely missed the point to go have a pointless tribal squabble. Top tier MtG and Yu-Gi-Oh! decks cost like 10 times more than they should because of artificial scarcity. That is the point.
I can’t speak for Pokémon tcg as I haven’t played it. But I do play mtg and Yugioh. I’d argue and say Yugioh is in a better place than mtg is right now. Considering all the shitty things that wotc has done these past few years or so, from magic 30th, the price increases, and overall card quality decline. And don’t even get me started with what they tried to do to DnD. That’s a whole other nightmare to unpack.
i honestly find it really delusion that some people think yugioh’s is currently slowly digging it’s grave because it looks to be too complicated to get into and that new player impression tend to be pretty bad especially if it’s on MD since the devs even admitted that it originally wasnt suppose to be for new players and the tutorial and solo modes were last min additions but MD actually has a steady play base if its steam charts is anythign to go by, YCS participation is apparently increasing even before MD and there is a bunch of miscellaneous merch to be sold including even a cross promotion with adidas of all things a few months ago so the yugioh brand isnt even anywhere in decline there also that shareholders meeting last month that ever since notes about what was mentioned in it dropped people been parroting around that it said the shareholders are concern because yugioh is either losing players or cant find any new players which simply isnt true, the concern is on why MD specifically isnt resulting in a bigger influx of new player as they hoped or expected, sounds more like people just using it as an excuse to justify some negative options instead
It took me quite long to realize how extremely obnoxious certain segments of the yugioh community. I used to play yugioh with cards printed on thick paper in my local gamestore for a buck, ever since that shop closed i've not found any place that would be fine with me using printed cards. Proxies should be encouraged but we all know that Komoney will rather kill the game than allow proxies.
i played masterduel for about half year. Often i confuse when playing against non meta deck. Idk why i can't link summon my monster and i need to check the log which card is stopping me from link summon
Ragavan’s not 180 per copies the total for 4 is 180. Not gonna pretend it’s not a lot for a piece of cardboard. But as your allowed to play four copies of any non basic land card of course you gotta buy 4. And that is the thing about tcg, it really is a stock, the more people invest in a card the more value it has at the time. Which that’s how good ragavan is, wizards had to reprints just to get it original price of 70 for individual card, to 45. I think this discourse around card prices, show how little everybody understands about tcg. Like their was that one study where out of the big three Yu-Gi-Oh costed more the magic and Pokémon.
The farfa take is so weird since that is literally ONLY the case because a set like DUDE came out. Is it better now than before? Yeah, absolutely, but still needing a full suite of handtraps for ~$5 each as opposed to $30 is still not great. This is before you even PICK a deck which could randomly be expensive for no reason (VS has no right power level wise being almost $300 as an example).
Ok, I gotta correct you about modern: it's most definitely not the most popular product by far. That would be commander, its definitely, DEFINITELY not modern.
3 traptrix structure decks plus like $15 is all you needed when Kash was all you saw, the budget options really just come in waves - which really sucks sometimes
Thats like people saying you can win with a precon in any card game, sure you can in theory, but your winrate is going to be sub-20% and your wins are going to be against 1. bricky hands and 2. meme decks
@OseiTheWarriors So for a brief time, it was a skill issue, as proven by Pak. No, it isn't, which is why I say it comes in waves, which sucks since cheap decks often don't have a chance to be playable for long
Why are yugioh players so negative about actually playing yugioh. I really can’t think of any other card game whose players seem to actively hate the game. Like magic players hate wotc for ruining lore and universe beyond and other petty reasons, but they still love to play magic.
The worst thing for me with yugioh is hitting any cars but the new releases. I played ABC when A got limited, orcust PK when mermaid was banned, PK Fire Zombies when summon sorc was banned, paleo when toad was banned, Dino with misc limited. Most of those hits were made because another deck was abusing the cards and the rogue strat gets Thanos snapped rather than hitting the new deck. Can we just stop printing lvl 2 aqua waters already? Thank you for reading my Ted talk
I disagree with the idea that Konami should hit newer cards. People who own the new cards should be able to play them before they inevitably get taken out behind the shed. Some of the decks you listed had inherent problems and weren't rogue contenders. For example, Orcust was a tier one deck for a while. Paleozoic was the third best deck in its heyday and still saw regular play after the fact, Summon Sorc is a card that absolutely needed to be removed from the game, not to harm just rogue decks, but because the card limits card design.
So I think yugioh needs more big picture analysis. Like like rather than obsessing over card by card analysis, more overviews and introductions that are like: Gimmick, Weakspot, Endboard. I hear “new plays don’t know what to expect from a deck” and part of that problem is a lack of resources explaining at a macro level what a deck does. Ppl not knowing searching is good? Or not knowing what a meta game is? Mtg and Pokémon both have searching and a meta game. That’s not a yugioh specific problem. You know what is a ygo specific problem? Ppl bringing up “missing the timing” whenever there’s a conversation about how ygo is different to other card games. Like why is Yugioh inaccessible? That’s why
$30 gets you half a meta Pokémon Deck. Those League Battle Decks only come with 6 Ultra Rares/equivalent. Sure you can just buy two and sell the leftovers or buy 1 and pick the rest up as Singles. But that tweet was a little disingenuous and attention seeking.
Small correction: Modern hasn't been MTG's most popular format for half a decade. Commander is. Which is kind of a problem,because theykeep printing commander cards that just break other formata.
That's because Wizard's has realized they can capitalize on the most popular formats at the expense of the others. If the Magic community shifts their perspective on the better format, then Wizards should align appropriately. Why waste cardboard and ink on a format that no one wants to play when you can make a billion dollars on the most popular one?
What do you mean "Salad is 300 dollars?" I will admit that the new link monster and searcher at 3 copies each will probably run you about 45 bucks, but the rest of the deck and other hand traps and shit are dirt cheap rn. Like, at least Ash Blossom isn't a fucking 22 dollar card now. The only really expensive staple card in Salad at the moment is Accesscode Talker, which has dropped from 3 figures to about maybe 25-30 bucks? Maybe it'll all rise in price after the banlist since it's potentially going to be a tier 1-2 contender (the deck already won a regional, it was effectively running 4 copies of Pot of Greed), but for the time being, at least use an example like Purrely that's actually been winning for a lot of this format. Hell, Branded is stupidly expensive if you want to play Bystials, and that deck hasn't really been doing jack shit either. Its getting shown up by Dragon Link. Salad is just a bad example, its probably about roughly 90 bucks before the side deck to build (which is cheap by competitive standards). And assuming you're wanting to just make a budget build to play with friends or at locals, you could probably get by with just one copy each of the new link monster and searcher and drop that figure down to maybe 60 bucks. I will say that your point about Yugioh being a major revenue source isn't wrong (god knows that they've been fumbling in the video game department in the last few years after their feud with Hideo Kojima), but if they really wanted people to buy more of their product directly, they should make the good cards more accessible. The reason prices drop for cards on the secondary market is based on the chances of seeing it in the product compared against the price of the product itself. Its why short printed cards skyrocket in price, its a fools errand to try to draw it from a booster box for the average person. So if Konami would just do what the OCG does and print the good cards in multiple rarities, more people would be willing to take their chances with buying the product first-hand. Like, the main reason why the top decks are easy to build is because the Pokemon Company LITERALLY prints the worlds decks as products. And its not like second-hand vendors would just buy less of Konami's set products either, they need to do it regardless because they have to sell starlight rares or what have you for the collectors market. Konami's revenue stream would still be pretty stable, and demand for their product would actually rise. There's no other way to splice it, Konami is just greedy with how they make their booster set products for the TCG. Aside from those, i'd say they're pretty fine when they're not purposely removing good staple cards from structure decks before release, though that seems to not be a huge issue anymore. Also, there is a x3 structure deck that exists in the format, but its the loli bait deck, so some people are hesitant to play it even though its arguably tier 2 (even though everyone bought it because of Evenly Matched, lol). Fingers crossed at least that the DM and Blue-Eyes structure decks coming down the pipeline will actually be good, but i'm not putting too much stock into it. I'm only buying it because I want the support for the DM deck I already own, but my advice for everyone else would be to pick up a deck like Sky Strikers or Salad before the next banlist while its still relatively cheap if you're looking to play competitively. Those two decks look like they're geared to phase back into the meta once Kash and Spright get the axe. That's how people actually build decks under a budget: they watch the market and the meta.
figure a way either through banning, changing cards, ect that makes yugioh no longer a Turn 1 Win game and i promise it lives the biggest turn off for me with the game is 15 minutes of my opponent setting up for a turn 1 win or turn 1 lock you out from playing and even when you are the one doing it your either a degen or you feel like shit for doing that to someone else the back and forth gameplay is why mtg, runeterra, even hearthstone sometimes will still live on when yugioh finally digs its last grave
pretty much also it's extremely expensive since the same 100 virgins are all buying up the same decks besides with how fast games go like you barely even get a turn sometimes and that most of all will kill off new players
Personally I think its quitw difficult to have archetypes that do unique things while being easy to intuit for new players. Take for example, generaider. It works completely different from other decks. Really, generaider is the only deck that does what generaider does. Or sky striker is a deck that works differently. Runick is the same. I dont see how you would make decks that are unique and exciting for veterans, but easy to understand for new ones. Theres no way a new player(or even a veteran player who reads it for the first time) would predict what generaider does after the field spell resolves. What are the tokens for? Whats a Generaider monster do? Is it going to do link plays on my turn to disrupt me I:P->unicorn style, or are the tokens there for some other reason? Oh, thats runick fountain, ok, that returns their quickplays for draws, thats fine, how many quickplays can the archetype have? Move a vaylantz from one column to another? That certainly cant have a big effect right?
its why people recommend to stick to a single deck to learn the game, you arent trying to learn differnt decks this way but instead using 1 deck as the starting point in an interaction with other decks like you arent supposed to all the time know wut a deck is gonna do the first time you see it and it aint the deck you’re playing
There is nothing wrong with a game being complicated, but Yugioh is certainly the wrong kind of complicated. It's important to remember, however, that each of the big three games has huge problems. They are by no means the best games on the market, just the most popular. I have some modern Yugioh decks, but think I'll be sticking to the older formats, Goat perhaps.
These people have never played an instrument. When you pick up guitar, you're not directly competing in a shredding competition (people can spend their entire lives never playing in a "competition"). In a card game in order to play the game, you are basically directly competing with a $30 starter guitar vs people with $1000+ guitars + all the requisite equipment, and your "gear" matters infinitely more in a card game than skill ever will.
pretty much, you can be as skilled as you like no synchro era decks will ever beat xyz era deck if you have the newer cards then you win, there's no skill needed
