Support me on Patreon: / nickyboi Join my Discord: / discord Follow me on Twitch: / nickyboi Follow me on Twitter: / nickyboiyt ♫~Music~♫ (In Order of Appearance) Outro music: • Bonetrousle (Alpha Mix... #leagueoflegends #kayle
well man i just have the idea for long time and failed to reach so HEAR ME OUT star guardian kayle / starlight kayle level 1 she has sword and walking instead of flying level 6 she has armor/ star guardian costume and wing level 11 she has more particle effect better version of level 6 level 16 she has full celestial form i like to me blue and so much different than level 16 so lore she is sister of morgana and zoe when zoe come from darkness she took them with her after morgana and kayle snatched by great darkness (Aurelion sol), morgana become evil kayle is good wanting to save zoe and morgana so she joined star guardians then took direct power from first light so then finally 3 sisters reunited aurelion show up try to kill morg kayle zoe she took full celestial form fight asol at last seals aurelion in stars with her leaving morg zoe cry
i want to add so much like a sol legendary they both have penta effect when a sol gets penta everything darkens corrupted kayle penta have everything enlightening kinda shit plus i have one more better thing to say but i like it to be anynomous
Kayle getting less armor only really works in the context of her doing it as a sign of arrogance. Like, the closer she becomes to "true divinity," the less need she has for mortal protection. When you can casually conjure an impenetrable barrier at a whim, armor only weighs you down at that point. Unfortunately, I'm not sure this was Riot's intention, and if it was, they could have handled it better.
Oh boy, I bet NickyBoi has a lot of good stuff to say about my favourite champion :D Jokes aside, what I liked about Kayle prior to her rework was that she was a mediocre lane bully that grew more powerful because of her inherent synergy with item scaling. There was a point that I jokingly referred to as the "level 10 power spike," which was when old Transcendence gave you 10% CDR, your E was at max level, and you typically had the two components of Nashor's Tooth (Stinger + Codex) that gave you 20% CDR. With this combined 30% CDR at level 10, Kayle's E was now constantly up. Prior to that, there was a cooldown window where it wasn't up, making her extremely vulnerable in the early game _but_ not outright helpless. So when Riot announces this rework, they miss the mark of her having variable power in the early game completely. Instead, they frontload everything onto her passive, something that the player has zero control over. Instead of feeling like I properly managed the early game to get myself into a more powerful state later in the game, now it just feels like I'm watching the clock, waiting to get to level 11 to become relevant. Secondly, when I picked out this champion when I first started playing this game, I picked her because a fully armoured, [largely] anonymous angel with a flaming sword sounded like the coolest f--king design ever. With the update to her lore, she could have been more in that direction as well, but instead they put her into purple spandex and took away the anonymity, making her more human than ever before. I'll still play her occasionally to this day because she's a comfort pick for me, but my God did the VGU miss the mark.
Preach as a former Kayle main this rework hurt so badly, when they reworked her all i wanted was her new q for skill expression and a way to incentivize using her r not on herself . The rework did that but destroyed everything else about her that made her fun to play.
Pretty much i can't play her at all since her rework. I miss the lane bully aspect way to much. I still remeber going 30/0/0 just to bully a renekton out of lane..
@Kfo221 no, you really can't as they made "light armored and becomes more humanized the closer she gets to becoming the embodiment of divine justice" as the core design component of all her skins. Like, in visual language, you hide a person's face to dehumanize them, and you reveal it to humanize them. Kayle skins always have her taking off her helmet as she levels up(except Empyrean, where _no one_ has their face revealed, except prestige skins... which Kayle has because they just can't stop themselves from having the embodiment of blind justice be humanized in her search to become impartial to an inhuman degree) You also shouldn't have to pay to get a champion's base theme done right...
I will say when all questions of morality can be posed on kayle, I like how LoR sort of gives a new context. The sort of ABSOLUTE JUSTICE OF HEAVENS kayle preaches can come off as absurd when it comes to humanity but fighting darkin who we can say rather definitively there isn't much room for remorse or change at least not at current moment for them, having this sword of heaven which just will wipe them out to protect the world is more justified in world of runterra where some things are just monsters that need to be stopped otherwise world can end at any moment
Agreed, and that's why you can't ultimately convince her she's wrong in her absolutism. Because she can point to plenty of examples where she is very much in the right, where there's no room for forgiveness or compassion , just judgement and its execution.
Kayle absolute justice of heaven is just eye for an eye and not loyal towards the criminals but it protects the ones who not doing crimes. While Morgana justice is not limited by some sort of rules and can lead to hypocritical or clearly wrong for justice decisions(Sylas situation is a big mistake of Morgana for example, considering what Sylas do in his Freljord story). They both serve good in general but have some weak points in their ideology.
@@llamadelreyii3369 No, they don't. He just has more of a personality then "I hate slavers and lead rebellion", nobody would be sane after confinement like that, nobody would be completely morally good.
Kayle not becoming more human with loss of armor, armor being equalised to being aspect actually makes less sence than vise versa, as armor is needed when you cant protect yourself without it. Even Morgana tell to Garen "The ones who wear armor fear death, and that a lot of armor" or something like that, I think it makes sence for her to loose some armor. Not to mention it matches other targonian aspects design.
To me, Kayle becoming more human and not less as she gains in power makes sense because it demonstrates the hypocrisy that she herself is blind to. It's a literal manifestation of proof that the Aspect of Justice must be human on some level, yet she is completely and totally blind to it.
Her "Deny emotions" thing is not core part of her ideology of actually. It is method to deal with mistakes of day of her duel againist Morgana(Morgana specifically actually act same way but choose to blame celestiality for it instead of mortality and emotions). In LoR apperance she seems to get over it as her voice sounds more emotional and she has no quotes about denying mortality. More than that, Mihira, as current ascept herself, also tell her to not forget herself and she clearly not againist Morgana. And Kayle not becoming more human, armor being equalised to being aspect actually makes less sence than vise versa, as armor is needed when you cant protect yourself without it. Even Morgana tell to Garen "The ones who wear armor fear death, and that a lot of armor" or something like that, I think it makes sence for her to loose some armor. Not to mention it matches other targonian aspects design.
I'd say similarly this is why she gets two swords as she levels up. Her arc is *meant* to be that she can't really be the Aspect of Justice without Morgana, and I think gaining her sister's blade but keeping it separate from her own reinforces that point--it's not that she conquers or dominates or absorbs her sister but rather finds collaboration with her perspective.
Now if she actually got a golden disk/ring covering her eyes when she levels up and throws the helmet away...that would be cool. Like she would embody the concept of a blind justice. Also make her fuse with armor, fuse the sword instead of splitting it, and then you get somewhat good design, mind you her armor still looks bad, but at least it would work
Honestly I like the this interpetation as it marries the "more power = less armor" design Riot went with, and the fact that Kayle is explicitly running away from her humanity.
Honestly, I have another take on how to make Kayle seem less human and more "divine" (or monstruous, let's say): Remove her helmet at 6, her armor at 11, and at 15 strip her from anything that resembles a person other than her sillhouette (think like a human body made entirely of light - no eyes, no mouth, no nose, just a little reminder that she was a person before becoming something... more). THERE, and it still keeps the sillhouette to make new skins.
Kayle was the very first Champion I ever played when I started in 2014 cause I was also stuck with the freebies they handed out until you got to a certain level... She was extremely fun and interesting to build then with the items available then. Then her rework came and just... ugh. Her design; worse than before... If she's rejecting her humanity why is she exposing herself with less and less armor as she ascends???? (Something something terrible fanservice). Her gameplay makes her suffer extremely early on and to say she is the definition of snowball is an understatement, she IS the snowball incarnate. I will mourn old Kayle forever. I'd say she also has a bit of the same problem as Katarina in her hybrid building; she does the same thing no matter if you build full AD, AP or try to hybrid. edit: "Well how can we make her look more powerful while removing her sense of Humanity in her design as a powerful angel?" Allow me to represent exhibit A: The ANgels in the Diablo franchise.
I think best in between between androgynous armor and ascending angel would be her getting wings or some type of blinders over her eyes. A blind justice if you will
0:53 "I hate Ranged top laners" My brother in Demacia, you become one.(which in gameplay storytelling makes sense, it would be more effective to put such pressure at a distance if you could even if it takes away what makes overcoming adversity so meaningful, part of her problem is her kit being too split apart instead of fitting her, I despise her ultimate as a hypercarry cannot and should not have utility or that much as a cost of being so powerful)
I always saw the fact that she appears more human the stronger she becomes is because that's what is making her more powerful. Even unbenounced to her, taking over parts of Morgana's philosophy is what is making her a better aspect of justice.
I liked Kayle more when the ranged attack was an empowered form. I played Kayle because she reminded me of Terrorblade from DOTA 2: a character specifically balanced around having a super-powered ranged form. But now Kayle just... is ranged? And she only gets her power spike at level 16.
10:25 or does she want to look like biblical accurate angel...? I mean, afaIk, in current lore (like in "Xolaani shenanigans didn't happen yet if we consider LoR canon") last time Kayle saw/heard about her mother, it was before she retired to "heaven", when she was still this humanoid shining, heroic figure bringing justice to wrong doers all over Runeterra So in this way, if she wants to be like her mother...she'll try to be like her formal form, the humany one, which she is pretty close to currently
Kayle is my favorite champ for the past 3 years and ive played since season 3. Love the late game feeling. And she is good at 2 items, too. Doesnt need 16 to be useful, but i get ur point. I like how she feels like a glorified marksmen. I think Vayne has stronger 1v1 damage against tanks, but Kayle has more agency in the late game and can take out squisjier targets faster than ur normal hypercarry. Thanks for ur commentary
I think that they should mix those two types of late game characters, by giving them the ability to gain stacks, but at certain levels it sets your stacks if they are too low to a reasonable level. Just seems hard to set that up.
Visually i want them to just take the current but swap everything but the wings and becoming more gold. Start with two swords and little armor in silver then end with one sword a full gold armor.
My bet is : "Point of evolution - not to distance from humanity, but to be more like Morgana despite her beliefs" and as visual storytelling this works wonders, but her actual story state is narrative limbo, because Genre demands (it's like Yasuo can't stop being unforgiven ( but everyone forgave him long ago), cause it's his whole idea) same here visuals team gives her endpoint where she accepts her sister and does actual justice for a change, but she has to stay Zealot for plot convience of more important characters. So no her visual is great it's just reflects her story in oposite direction.
And of course most obvious reason for that visual gimmick is her being Morgana's twin, as they were reworked together so you can't just remove them looking alike, maybe amping Morgana in same sense can work her recent appearances in LoR and Mageseeker gives her more gold and Targonian elements.
So I'm at 10:32 and from what you have said so far, how I am interpreting how the powers work, kayle's base form is weaker than her mom's base form, so when she evolves she is now on par with her mom, so that's why she looks human/like her mother. That's what I'm getting at least.
My thing is that the whole "more armor = less human" thing is very "face value" in terms of interpretation. When humans want to be seen as something, usually due to insecurity, they put things on and overall it's a sign of weakness. When you lose the emotional insecurity and think based only on logic, practicality, and cold hard truth, if your extra wardrobe is deemed to be less efficient or emotionally-charged, then you ditch it. Especially if you've transcended into total strength. I think they at least did the minimum of giving her the blank eyes.
i think that maybe what they were going for with the two swords was representing she can wield the full power of both blades in the one sword kind of thing. maybe… riot??
I would really like it if both the swords fused together with her arms in her higher levels. Maybe getting rid of her legs too would make her feel more weightless and less human. I will say that I do really like the newer Kayle’s color scheme. The golden armor and those light blue wings with the hints of purple look really nice to me.
what if the swords can't fuse back together because now they belong to the two sides of justice that kayle and morgana represent? kayle using both swords doesn't mean kayle holding absolute justice
I mean, dont biblically accurate angels LOSE armor the stronger the angel is? So her losing armor as she becomes more "divine" works in her favor. Her. mother endgames as the highest form of angel (seraphim) so kayle is on her way there right?
I think you could also argue that her losing her armor is her also removing her earthly possessions. Or even view it as a point of hypocrisy/irony that her "ascension" makes her look more human. Idk I think any way to view it mostly depends on what direction her story would ultimately end up going. If they want her story to be one that highlights hypocrisy or have a tragic irony, then it makes sense for her to end up looking more human. If her story sees her just becoming like her mother then it doesn't make sense for her to look human.
I like that Kayle gets more human the higher level she gets. To me it's a thing of no matter how much she tries to ditch her humanity it will always be apart of her. The more she tries to drive it away the more it forces itself back to her.
Food for thought make her level 18 in a more divine creature. Cause if you ask me her lv 16 looks like she on the brink of fully ascending. So we can have our cake and eat it to. Then again that means more work for the design team as they have to add the divine form to all there skins.
to be fair, during that game you also had realy good? or fed teammates who could survive a strong tryndamere. and also something about toplane relevancy idk i play bard
So what if when she grows stronger she starts accepting both her sides , her humanity and the fact thats shes a aspect of justice hince the less armour and appearing more human
Although I agree with Nicky's opinion on Kayle's Design, I honestly prefer the idea that maybe as she grows stronger... She fails to understand that she is just like her family, a human being and a mere vessel to a power. That power blinded her and made her think that as she grows stronger is that she us getting close to being a god but instead is slowly revealing herself to end up looking more human.
I will say in (mild) defense of her gameplay, half the reason you won was as you sometimes mentioned, the enemy Trynd throwing in an attempt to tilt you. I'm not necessarily a fan of it from a game design standpoint, but I wouldn't call how Kayle works 'unfair'. If she's really behind as you were she actually super isn't worth all-ing for. You play into Kayle by playing around her, go fast and don't commit to hard to the character who isn't very important yet (unless you can zone her off farming entirely, I guess.) It's still not good design, of course, but it is 'fair', it just isn't very fun.
1:03 the on who does more bad, as I come to realise if you're trully responsible for actions that means you can change and do good, being called an evil thing suggest you can't and aren't responsible for your incompetence. Morgana shows(since they are similar enough functionally) she can that is why she is a person who does more bad than good, Good intentions terrible execution.(heh and also similar to her gameplay and character design basically everything and Ironically I agree with Nicky's title, she was more intersting then in her execution though with some flaws ofcourse, she's somehow worse now)
The dumbest part I think is that Unmasked Kayle existed for this reason, but now the skin just got outright removed because it didn't fit their narrative, because yes, kayle should wear armour, it makes her look more unique, and makes her feel more detached.
It's probably "Seraph" for singular and "Seraphim" for plural if it's going by Hebrew rules. Tho I don't know any of that mythology so it's possible it doesn't work logically there...
I like her design, tbh yeah its a bit generic ngl, but i really like how she has this lore that she is human and for me atleast i hope she reconciles with Morgana and they both ascend together. I dont want her to look like an actual angel from the bible.
"I am rewarded for playing like garbage because my champion was designed to be garbage for 30 minutes until I become a god" Quote of the day and every scaling champ experience
I just think the concept of *hyper* carries is toxic. Not carries. *Hyper* carries intended to get to late game and 1v9 the game. They basically guarantee a large chunk of the players in the game will have a bad time and due to the siloing of lane duties most of those players will have no agency to stop the enemy hyper carry early and start to interact around the time they start power spiking.
Regarding Kayle's helmet, the reason it gets removed as she changes form is because each form is her Ascending higher and higher and becoming more godly. Gods do not need armor. Gods do not need to wear a helmet. Kayle is not trying to be "mysterious" or "hide her identity". She is the face of Justice. She wants you to know exactly who it is that's staring down at you so that you understand the gravity of the situation.
In her current state I like her getting less armored with levels because HER ARMOUR SUCKS SHES GOING TO STAB HER OWN GUTS OUT. If her armor was as cool as old Kayle (or preferably a lot cooler) people probably wouldnt have as much of a problem with her getting more armored with levels. Its just that her armour is terrible. Also personally I kind of like her gameplay, I enjoy being patient and feeling like my farming and wave catching matters.
It was funny that back in the day, it was kinda obvious that Morgana was the evil twin. Then came the rework and they made Morgana have at least a pinch of "grey" morality where you can justify saying she neither good or evil, but they shitted all over the place with Kayle. There is no nuance on Kayle's aspect of justice to try and make an argument that she might be right in opposition to Morgana's ideals, she is a fully fledge amoral monster in the form of "righteous justice".
Kayle protect innocents, punish criminals and unjust rulers/protect runeterra from world threats(all of that is written in her bio/color stories+mentioned in LoR/Last cynematic) and has noble goal of building better world for righteous people. Their fight has equal guilt of both sisters and they both regret it. She is harsh judge, but judge that is fair to everyone, find punishment equal to crime and not making execuses no matter who you are. She seeks to fit idealistic retributive side of justice.
Oh no, Kayle is just harsh but she does the right thing most of the time, she's just "You either are good or you receive the death penalty" but she does help the innocent. Morgana is basically the good cop she judges you but you can be alive after
suneater and empyrean, as much as some people don't like that skinline, do work better the ascending gig of Kayle. F on the chat for everyone who had unmasked kayle or riot before the rework.
Ah yes, the champion with less magic resist at level 1 than yummi, she has less magic resist than yummi at level 1, thank you riot games and nemesis by extnsion
I understand your perspective on how her armour plays into her identity as becoming removed from humanity, but personally I think her identity is tied closer to the religious context of seraphims where they exist to praise god, or her mother. Kayle's faith is constantly referenced in her lore, where she'd blindly follow the rules even if she didn't understand them exactly, I think this directly explains how much like how angels in the bible took on a human appearance to help those they'd appear to digest their existence better. Kayle understands that the justice she considers as objective morality exists to protect them, and I view her father's death as both a moment of clarity of her wrongdoings and her true purpose which is why she seeks Targon to be with her mother (as she remembers her, which is also kind of why I assume she doesn't go the whole biblically accurate route but I think this one is super up to the individual). This, to me, also logically ties her want to be disconnected from human *emotions*, I emphasise this because I don't really understand why you lean so hard on her disconnect from humanity in general, especially knowing how much she values her mother. Like as a concept I think wanting her to become less human is awesome, and if that's what you want out of the character there are definitely things that could be different, but I think in that case Kayle is just not the character for that. This to me gives her character so much more depth, I think seeing her as the villain is super interesting, linking back in with morgana there are so many interesting things to take from their story, I just absolutely love religious symbolism and their references to that is incredible to me. Even if her kit is really flawed she's still one of my favourite champions in the game so it's really interesting to see other people's perspective on her.
>Kayle's faith is constantly referenced in her lore, where she'd blindly follow the rules even if she didn't understand them exactly Meanwhile what her bio states: >Kayle was precocious, often arguing with the settlement’s leaders about their rules-she had no real memory of her mother’s powers, but knew the laws were meant to keep them all safe. Not to mention whole In The Fires Of Justice story where she smited Tyrant king for his unfair laws >This to me gives her character so much more depth, I think seeing her as the villain is super interesting, linking back in with morgana there are so many interesting things to take from their story, I just absolutely love religious symbolism and their references to that is incredible to me. What villian protect innocents from injustice and fight world threats without taking anything in return? Not even mention her justice is harsh but really fair as it is idealistic eye for an eye
@@stasmen7752 Seeing her as the villain was is still an interesting perspective, I don't exactly agree personally but it's more acknowledging Nicky's side of it. Which is why I explained how I see her fathers death as a moment of clarity, you can have a lot of depth in characters without just labelling them as good or bad. Also, you do make a good point, and I totally agree, but I think you miss the point a little where I was trying to drive her devotion to justice, you can have faith and follow what you think is right blindly while also questioning it. There's a lot of nuance in religious guilt, and not falling into temptation is (to me) clearly something Kayle has struggled with. All in all, I think Nicky's perspective is really interesting, he wants something different out of her character than I do and I think that's awesome, there's no right or wrong way to read into something like this, this is just what's most interesting to me!
