KSGER T12 & 858D Station Follow Up & Questions Answered 

Could you possibly make a video or link one that shows how to make that switch box please? I don't know why but I just can't get my head round it

@@ImranMachher Best not to attempt to build one then if you don't understand the basic principles of 120V switching methods.

@@Rchelicopterfun Amy suggestions what I should study first to get where I need to be?

Glad I watched this before purchase

Great to hear.

Hope you enjoy yours too 👍

My pleasure!

Glad to hear yours has been a great little workhorse too. 🙂

You bet

Yes indeed 🙂

Thanks & glad it helped

👍🙂

The handle type (the 907 or the 9501) have little to do with tip performance so I think you can safely eliminate that. What has to do with performance is vast in scope. Tip, station, quality of solder, quality of flux and of course the main one - technique. 1. Tips: Since you say this happens with all your T12 tips in the set, then we can likely rule out a faulty tip unless you got an entire bad set which seems very unlikely. Have you broken all the T12 tips in correctly by going through the calibration process? 2. Power: Next is lack of power, well I can assure you the KSGER T12 stations using the direct drive tips have LOADS of power. I can solder 8 AWG wire with my two T12 stations and with a 40mm D4 tip, they can even pump out enough to do 6 AWG with good technique and a little effort. If they can do 8 or 6AWG wire, they most certainly have the power to do a tiny SMD component. But you could always have a faulty station, unlikely but certainly possible. 3. Temperature / Calibration: You say you have come to the conclusion it lacks power, have you tested that conclusion with hard data to back it up? Have you checked the tip temperatures with a solder iron temp probe & have you calibrated the tips? 4. Tip Oxidation: If you've checked the temp & calibrated the tips and you know the tips are getting to the correct temp you are setting them to; solder not sticking to a tip is commonly caused by oxidation on the iron coating on the tip end. Have you cleaned your tips, both in flux and then a sponge (wet or brass) and clean them constantly while using them and tinning them to keep them "wet" and tinning again before putting them away? Cleaning the tips are one of the most important aspects of soldering since tip oxidation will most definitely prevent the solder from adhering to the tip and there will be little heat conduction between the tip and solder then. It's all but impossible to solder with an oxidized tip. 5. Quality of solder & flux: Are you using good electronics quality leaded solder with quality rosin flux in it such as Kester 44 60/40 or 63/37? Are you using extra flux as needed as the rosin flux boils/flashes off? Lots of variables that determine how good the soldering job is - or isn't and the station is only one component in the chain.

I think this is the safest option.

i thaught about doing the same ..

Great Idea, I saw one of those and was confused by how small it was. I thought at first it was an unsafe copy. Didn't realize it was just missing the power circuit.

I was recently in the market for an iron and i saw so many of those and for so cheap, glad I didn't grab one of those now lul, wasn't aware that they needed a separate 24v supply, ended up grabbing a proper ksger T12 on ebay yesterday for 40 quid

Thou shalt not EVER solder on live circuits - especially ones that are running at line voltage potential. No idea on the silver version.

if you had another suitable dc supply you could power the front board with that and work on the disconnected built in supply

If the aluminium enclosure case isn't earth ground, I would definitely ground it to be safe - totally your call of course.

Yep, me too. Still working like a champ 🙂

Drilled out the hold. 18 AWG is what I used. You could even go smaller, not like either will be passing much current.

Aluminium is rather soft, you can either use just about any metal drill bit or a step-drill-bit.

It's one of those new(ish) Riden RD6006 units: www.banggood.com/custlink/vvDDzi7IyB That link is to just the head display unit. Depending on how you want to power it, you can get your own PS and case for a very cost effective build. I just purchased the Riden Case and the recommended 60V switch mode power supply for mine. It's very easy to put together and a fun little project. Dave Jones (EEVblog) did a couple videos on it, and I knew after watching them, it was the bench top supply that would fill the requirements I had (higher voltage and current) to replace the old linear 2 channel bench top supply I had built back in college that topped out at 24V and 1A with no way to alter current output or monitor the outputs. This thing is such an improvement :)

Yep, I agree they should give that option. I see the reasoning behind not offering a power cord since these are universal voltage devices sold to all markets, so different plug types are required; but they could have a plug type option at checkout like some other devices have. Of course I know what would happen then, people wouldn't pay attention at checkout, order the wrong plug type, and then bitch about it and cause way more hassles than it's worth. So true about China stepping up its manufacturing quality game every year. They are following in the manufacturing success steps of Japan IMO. When I was just an ankle biter, made in Japan conjured up the exact same negative remarks. Will the "made in China" sticker have the same high value as "made in Japan" does today, and demand the price premium that goes hand in hand? I won't be at all surprised.

@Kobra1977, The neon lamp draws very little current (0.1A or less) so you don't need big wire at all. I think I used 18AWG looking at the size of it in the video, but it could certainly be smaller. Grounding wire by code should be the same size as what the power cable uses. Again, I think I used 18AWG but don't quote me on that.

I just wired like a normal 4 gang switch box. The hot in goes to each toggle switch, and then the hot hot out from each switch goes to its own isolated plug. All neutrals are shared.

@@Rchelicopterfun Thanks, i'm trying to rig up a remote switch for a surge protector to flip off power for my sim racing equipment. I was hoping to avoid running the hot power into my button box and just remotely control the switch, but may be asking too much.

Even safer would be a four relays and use a arduino to monitor the switch press.

Only if you want to ensure it's never at a voltage potential. Earthing it won't help isolate it from the PCB traces.

Yes, very true - good points :-)

Another thing I like is their style of service. Some people might prefer full replacements or having to send back their stuff, but as someone who does some hobby electronics, I highly appreciate the approach of many Chinese companies that rather help with finding the issue, deliver replacement parts or even providing some schematics. Whether it's my TS100, my 3d printer, Ruideng or some other things, I always got fantastic support when something broke, I searched for a single replacement part or something similar. Good luck on that with a western company ... at least here in Germany most big company support people have no idea at all about what they are talking about. They just go through their customer service "scripts", but can't really help with solving any kind of technical issue.

Precisely, most of the "high pricepoint" stuff is relatively cheap to fix: QA, A little wire here-and-there, etc. But those you can easily do yourself :)

The more expensive stuff may have the same issues as the cheap Chinese stuff and more difficult to mod because they made it as small as possuble.

No idea, never looked into it.

You have to desolder it from the board.

Not sure what you mean by "floating temperature" so I guess I didn't. They are all working great. One thing I did experience with every one of them when they were brand new/very first use, is every one of them had to go through some sort of initialization phase; perhaps as the PID algorithm did it's thing? The temp would hunt up & down with intermittent errors flashing on the display during this one minute or so initialization process. After that, they never did it again. I demo it near the end of the review I did on the T12 station. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-eKQC9G5SYII.html

Awesome thank you.

I got it now. Very happy my first decent soldering iron.

Not sure what you mean by plastic case? The KSGER T12 comes with an aluminum enclosure.

No can do... Regional electrical codes and line voltage worldwide varies. Making line voltage projects like this requires a solid understanding of both the basics and the electrical code in your area. Take a basic electrical course in other words or get a copy of your regional electrical code book and study it.

Two primary & obvious ones: 1. The thermocouple on the FG is held elevated over a splatter plate so the solder tip easily rests on it with consistent pressure (=consistent readings) and flux & solder drips are of no issue. 2. The replaceable thermocouples on the FG are inexpensive and easy to replace as they slowly rot out from continued exposure to the molten solder and flux. Whereas a DMM thermocouple probe that rots out from continued submersion in molten solder will require the entire probe be replaced which often costs more than the entire FG-100. DMM thermal probes were after all never designed to be submersed in a blob of molten solder; may even affect their accuracy before they do rot out.

If you're an electronics' hobbyist, fix it yourself. Either by finding the faulty component/s & replacing it/them; or by purchasing either a new control board or heater handle, both of which are available separately from various sources (ebay, aliexpress, banggood, etc). If you are not an electronics' hobbyist, then you will have to find someone who is willing to have a look at it / fix it.

@joe schneider No - completely different internals., The GX connector is also smaller on the soldering iron. T12 soldering iron heating elements run at 24 VDC, hot air wands need way more power; their heating coils run on AC line voltage. Solder stations use a MOSFET to switch the iron heater on/off to regulate temp; hot air stations use a TRIAC.

It's an AmScope SM series, with Hayear HD universal microscope camera. I did a review on the camera where I cover it and the Amscope in much more detail. Here's the link to that review if you're interested: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-tcyhaJE_7co.html There are product links in the description of that review video if you wanted to check the specs out on the specific equipment.

Sorry none. As I'm in NA and we run on 120VAC, but I can't see how that would change anything since these things work with universal voltages. The only way something could "blow" after grounding the metal case is if the case is at a voltage potential and that would be a very dangerous situation. I also need more information than "blown unit". That doesn't tell me a thing. What competent/s blew. Fuse/s, input side of PS, output side, the logic board, etc. Impossible to diagnose remotely in other words without seeing exactly what mod you did, how you did it, and test the board to see exactly what failed. I'm assuming the units worked fine before grounding the case - yes? Did you probe your units with a DMM to ensure something on the board was not grounding to the case etc.

Mate seriously if you don’t know then you shouldn’t be making those changes. Ask somebody local with certification skills to help you or your product could be dangerous

That wasn't one of the questions because this is a KSGER follow up, not a Miniware follow up. Totally different tools as well. Robust bench top vs. fragile portable. Regardless & to answer your question, for what I need in a portable soldering tool, I would take the TS100 over the 80. I go over the reasons why in my detailed TS100 review: www.rchelicopterfun.com/ts100-soldering-iron.html

Same as cleaning any solder tip. Draw them through a damp cellulose sponge or a dry brass shavings sponge when the tip is at operating temp. My beginner's soldering page on my website has a section on tip cleaning along with a link to a good article on extending soldering tip life: www.rchelicopterfun.com/rc-soldering.html

No idea, as long as it works - that's all that I care about.

@@Rchelicopterfun Just wanted to verify in case there was a feature set update or something for further safety. I remember when my Prusa i3 3D printer got an update which included the auto shut off, which prevented possible house fires, I was glad. lol Thanks for your video, I will be making / checking if I need to do the modifications you showed here. I really love my KSGER T12 unit, best Iron i've used to date in this price range. I have been using my TS100 for a couple years now, and it's been shelved for field use only!

There is an opensource firmware based on TS100 one lying on Github for those ksger stations but it's still quite experimental so it's safer to desolder the provided MCU and keeping it as a backup. Also the firmware is only available for an older PCB design which is quite hard to find these days. At this point, you may want to look instead on Github for the hakko_t12_STM32 which is an openhardware station designed from scratch with a common bluepill devboard. Finally, you'd probably buy an ST-Link to program the stm32 chips as the bootloader provided can vary from batch to batch and might be write-locked, there is good enough cheap clones lying around. The skill is a bit higher than AVR's bootloaders and it requires proprietary freeware from STMicro but it's also a powerful debugger and more convenient than Atmel/Microchip's barebone programming suite.

If you plug it into a grounded outlet, the iron tip is also grounded. No idea about the Hakko.

No, it is NOT ESD safe! For ESD the tip should be connected to safety ground through a high value resistor (100k - 1M), to prevent high current spikes in case of static discharge. It is possible to change the tip holder for this.

If I could predict stuff like that I would be playing the stock market. We live in a very volatile & competitive time right now. With that said, even if they only last another 2 years the value is impossible to beat.

John Salt fair enough. Thanks.

Those tips are clones of the Hakko's T12 series and one of the most performant and popular kind of tips. Note that older non-direct drive tips that are obsolete are still produced by Hakko and chinese clones like Yihua or Aoyue so you need to worry more about replacements parts for the soldering station itself than the tips..

If you want direct drive tip technology, a T12 station is the least expensive way to get it in a decent quality package, with some pretty awesome & usable features. Otherwise you are better off getting a less expensive traditional slide on tip technology iron or station IMO - not as much to learn with them. Just my 2 cents of course.

Even if they are not grounded? I wouldn’t open it up either.

if you are so worried about the grounding but don't want to diy ground it yourself then you can buy the version with plastic case

Presactly. 1 is on so when you press the rocker down it should switch on. Then press the 0 up to switch off. Seems correct out the factory. I'm in South Africa FWIW.

Never touched the fuses.

Amazon don't carry them. I've only seen them at Banggood, Aliexpress, and eBay.

Working fine. Only complaint is the fan in the handle like many small brushless fans is getting a little noisy until it runs for while. A drop of oil on the motor shaft will likely fix that, but new fans are inexpensive as well.

@@Rchelicopterfun Thank you very much for your reply , it is on my wishlist on Ali Express.... Merci

Made it: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-WCYFPu0c4WY.html

Links to the KSGER 858D hot air station are in both the description & pinned comment. Not sure what you are asking about being so expensive? These are all low cost soldering tools after all, costing less than other similar equipment.

Ah I did not scroll down enough to see the hot air machine. But, when I click the link my browser says page not available. Don't worry but if you count on any revenue from these links it might need a tune up. Thank you, D

Hmmm... I just tried it using the Ksger 858D link shown in both in the description & pinned comment www.banggood.com/custlink/vDGmnbcsg4 it works fine on my browser.

@@Rchelicopterfun must be my security, don't worry I didn't get my covid check yet. Thank you.

All good points! 🙂

In my original review video of the T12, I show where all the wiring in the handle goes. I also have another video where I assembled the aluminum kit 9501 handle which also goes over wiring. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BotH7s2TGYc.html The wire on these irons doesn't have to be large gauge because there is very little current passing through them. If they made it much larger, then the handle would be more difficult to move about with a "hose" coming out the backside. I'm not at all familiar with the "black handle" iron so have no idea how wire strain relief is managed inside it, but if the wires broke like you said inside the handle at the solder connection, my guess is there was insufficient strain relief for one reason or another. I use my T12 station almost daily, and no wires have broken as of yet (going on 18 months old), but as I showed in the original review video, I did take the time to re-solder them all (I was not happy with the factory soldering) and made sure to zip-tie to the cable to the cable support in the handle to ensure there was no strain on the individual wires in the handle at the solder connections.

Looks like I am in trouble. The tip got Red Hot set at 350. Sensor may not connect right or thermistor not working. Your diagram was great but alas I think sensor failure has occurred. D

The temp sensor for the tips is built into each tip. If you have more than one T12 tip and it does it with every tip, that would mostly likely be a wiring issue or problem with the unit. The little glass thermistor in the handle would not cause thermal runaway in the tip.

Just tested with new tip, went to red hot in 8 seconds. I will order a new handle. Thks, D

Could be the station as well. MOSFET's usually fail shorted so make sure to check that too.

Good to know.

@@Rchelicopterfun I have the 907 and it gets a little warm sometimes but nothing much to care about; strange it would perform better cause the yellow silicon is thin, in fact I put a little masking type underneath of it to create some friction because the metal collar was unscrewing the black plastic collar. I laughed when the Weller came out, primary side fuse? .. whats that?!?!

Hmmm, I'm certainly not finding any issue with it. Admittedly, I don't use it for SMD work all that often; perhaps a couple SMD projects a month, compared to the weekly heat shrink and bearing racing heating jobs it gets. All I know is I did have an Aoyue pump style hot air station before this one, and I much prefer this one as it takes up much less space on the bench and is not nearly as noisy or with the small brushless fan in the handle. Heat up time is also faster and temp accuracy seems better. Guess it all depends what our application and work environment is like. For heavier use, perhaps the pump style stations are better, but for RC hobbyist use, this little KSGER 858D is working a treat (so far). 🤔

@@Rchelicopterfun Is the hot air station still working great? I already have a KSGER T12 Mini (it's a really really good station for the price) and wanted to also have something for SMD work.

Sorry, no idea but I doubt it. These T12 station's PID algorithms and output voltage/current are specific for direct drive T12/T15 solder tips only.

@@Rchelicopterfun thanks for the insight! guess some yihua stand alone tweezers will be the way.. if they are functional.

Glad to help

The MRB20200CTG rectifier (what's in mine), is an epoxy insulated case. No insulator back & screw sleeve is needed between it and the heat sink to insulate it. Yes, I physically checked it when I removed the heat sink to grind off the corners of those two outer fins. Perhaps yours has a different rectifier and you like your rocker switches to be off in the up position - I don't. Switch down = off, switch up = on in my world. 🙂

Good eye. I noticed that too and just figured it was some mastic that got smeared across the top of the cap as it looked like the same yellow adhesive goo that is on a couple of the connectors. I went back and watched my review video and didn't see any on the cap a year ago so it must be some cap shmoo leaking out. Guess that's another thing to keep an eye on 🤔

John Salt yes thanks for the investigation. that brand cap is a well known bad cap maker. i think they were responsible for the imitation samsung caps. those were problematic after a year of use. and were used in lots of tv,s from 10 years back.

Good to know. Thanks!

Turns out there was a tiny pin hole in the top of the cap at the corner of one of expansion/burst cross lines - unreal! Thanks again for pointing it out. I replaced it with a Nichicon 400V 68uf cap and noticed the display comes on a little quicker now.

John Salt thanks for the video and your answer. If one cap is the biggest problem of this unit, i am verry happy to have orderd one .

Only suggestion is to double check your standby time programming.

Did you solve this issue? Mine beeps after the set time but won't drop into standby..

It was the small ball sensor ....in the handle it needed swopping around it seems they are directional regards

@@olliehaselden375 hi Ollie it was the ball sensor in the handle it needed turning around apparently they are directional cheers

@@tonybriggs4181 I'd heard a few other reviewers mention the sensor in the Handle being wired the wrong way which would cause it to be on when in the holder instead of in the off position

Well stated. 🙂

And for a lot of us, it fits the bill in terms of price vs performance. I'm a huge tech / video game nut. I use my Yihua 936 clone unit that I paid $30 for off of hobby king probably 6 or 7 years ago now to do a lot of modding work. Recapped a game gear with it, fixed several game boys, new batteries, fixed several computer monitors and a TV. Even fixed a few pinball machines and arcade games with it (Ms Pac Man monitor... I'm lookin at you). While my usage did / does justify better than the 30 dollar cloner I have, it doesn't warrant a $300+ machine either. Soldering projects are few and far between for me now, but for $50 I have no problems picking up something like this which is a much bigger step towards those expensive machines in terms of features and performance than what I have, even if it only sees 20 or 25 hours of action per year.

I can't. Electrical codes vary by region and due to the dangers of working with mains current & voltage if you are not fully comfortable & understand the what & why of household electrical circuits, best to stay well clear. However, if you understand the basics of house wiring & how to wire a standard single pole 4 switch electrical box, this is the exact same thing with the exception I'm using a single box with smaller single pole toggle switches rated for household voltage & current (125V/20A) instead of normal wall switches inside. They are wired exactly the same internally. Neutrals all tied together. Grounds all tied together. Hot in going to one side of all toggles, hot out from each toggle switch going to each separate plug.

If you have to ask. Then seriously, you shouldn’t be making one. I suggest you buy a power board with individual switches and Velcro or glue it to your bench area away from your direct working space.

Beg, borrow, or steal another 😄

Hmm, just tried it last night, didn't even touch it. Must be different types of hot glue.

@@Rchelicopterfun should work. It's how the PDR (paintless dent removal) kits work.

my weller just died too and when opened it up. I was not impressed with it. I have order KSGER soldering station as replacement after watching John reviews.

Yep, it's what you're used to and have built up years/decades of subconscious memory turning switches on & off. It honestly was driving me crazy (not a far trip). Regardless, down = off (lower value of 0) & up = on (higher value of 1) makes way more binary logical sense to me. BTW, I'm located in Canada - not USA! Enjoy your T12 regardless of toggle orientation; as you say, amazing soldering station & technology for the price.

And fully grounded as per the electrical code here - passes code no problem. The toggle's themselves are fully insulated. These specific ones are rated up to 250V. Do you honestly think an industrial spec SPST toggle rated at 250VAC would not be safe to use in this application? Come on! In short (no pun), it's more than ideal partner 🖕