Libertarian Caller: "Most Economists Agree...No Minimum Wage!", Ignores Study That Proves Opposite 

jared lind Sam Seder really isn’t an intellectual giant so my guess is you’re doing this for fun

jared lind Yep

Haha i love the stupidity of the libertarians, binge watching non stop, to top it off these same idiots were in favor of the trade deals like top and now that trump is in they oppose them, there goes their principles jaja so fragile like glass and hypocritical.

I am right now.

I am now

They’re cell phones lack regulations to increase the cell reception.

They do all seem to have reception problems....

Cheap cell phones with poor reception has got to be a silent tenet of Libertarianism. It allows them to not hear Sam's knock-downs of their fantasyland, vaguely defined ideologies.

We need a poor reception libertarian supercut

Libertarian: someone who believes the same thing on Wednesday that he/she did on Monday, regardless of what happened on Tuesday.

Matthew Helm Problem is that they seem to be talking a bit past eachother. The guy on the phone is not talking about minimum wage consensus, he's talking about consensus about other things like free trade is generally good. Sam does seem to pick up on this and provides examples of where you might want to push back on that idea like if the trading partner does not have to follow the same or similar environmental rules because the negative effects of that will not priced in. Meaning that you could get a situation where a product imported from a different country might not be cheaper because they produce it more efficiently but because externalities are not priced in which isn't ideal.

tuxis they weren’t talking past each other. It was more like the caller was trying to filibuster a whole lot of talking points and not stopping to let each point be dissected. Which is what a lot of these so-called Libertarians do. They don’t like to debate their points _line-by-line._ Because when those points are actually debated...you find that most of these Libertarian points-of-view are actually quite nutty and maybe even insane. These folks are not interested actually debating on the validity of Libertarianism. These Libertarians simply just want someone to mindlessly and dogmatically support their worldview without question. And that aspect is why these _rank-and-file_ Libertarians always tend to fair poorly in real-time debates.

@@tuxis the consensus on free trade is that America benefits, but other places don't. or that America doesn't benefit but the effect is minor. I haven't heard about any consensus that says free trade is good for everyone

@@originalsinquirls1205 Everybody? No, more people than not, Yes. Neolibs claimed in the 80s and 90s "free trade" or more accurately called outsourcing, would benefit the middle class. Anyone who questioned this dogma was labeled a communist and antibusiness.

Ryan Cole if only they lived in a libertarian wonder land and paid no taxes... Then again they'd make ten cents an hour.

I guess his value in the free market isn't high enough to get a job that affords the ability to own a phone that doesn't suck it hard. How does the old saying go? In America there are no poor people, just many temporarily embarassed millionaires.

Burner phones. they won't pay for a plan , they fear being tracked by the CIA?

FREE MERKET BRO

Taxes are Theft Cellular

Because they're in shock about how stupid other people can be! 😆

Their worldview is chiefly based on spite, and they’re all quite certain they’re the biggest brain in their area code. Smugness and malding are the only things that seem to make them happy.

I’m convinced they either get interns to call in or they purposely screen for the dumbest people they can find in a short amount of time by listening for key words and phrases when they call up.

Because they are all Generation X white men and feel voiceless and left out of society. They've had no control in their life and have been screwed economically by the government and the banks so they resent them and have one thing they can control, the ability to call themselves libertarian and feel smart enough to justify their hate for the system. It's kinda sad. And they call us the libtards, gimme a break libertarians are the real libtards

@@glowingdawn9179 I can’t believe I used to be a libertarian 🤮

Incidentally I just thought of a great weapon/talisman/teaching tool for that sort of situation: a mirror! To hold up before the poor confused pseudo-economist.

What they say: "You don't understand economics." What they mean: "You don't agree with my (poor) understanding of economics." Seriously though, most libertarians that I've seen debate with Sam just have the most basic possible understanding of economics. Like basically their understanding of economics goes only to "comparative advantage, competition good, basic demand-supply curves." Which is the most basic economic shit out there and there's so much more complexity to economics than that. It's the Dunning-Kruger effect in action. Their understanding of economics is just so basic that they don't understand that the reason others disagree with them isn't because they know less, it's because they know a lot more. And it's almost always an understanding just of the most basic THEORY as well with very little empircal data. Usually their "empitical data" is just anecdotes. Which don't carry any weight. Certainly not to the same extent actual peer reviewed studies do.

The free market solves all. Except world hunger. Or... other things...

Yeah you could call down to the end of your block which is as far as their local jurisdiction would reach.

+philzwhip exactly. once you study economics on serious textbooks, you understand most things libertarians state as certainties and facts are actually not, the austrian school has been completely surpassed (its proven contributions are now part of the mainstream thought, the rest has been disproven, so there's no point in citing it anymore, it's like saying XIX century scientists were more right than the current ones), and things are much more complex.

I have yet to hear a libertarian mention econ 102. I think econ 101 is the only economics course offered at university.

Or they took econ 101 at the school I go to - the textbook was written by George W Bush's economic's advisor and he spent most of the first chapter (required reading too) going on about how regulations are communism and inherently evil. It set the tone for the entire course. It was the only assigned reading I did and I still passed with a C.

I"m on a binge of these videos right now

Actually, they embarrass themselves.

Actually this guy was quite intelligent (surprisingly), and I will say that Sam in fact didn't provide a proper argument.

Diptarka Das 😂😂😂😂😂not at all he wasn’t that intelligent maybe for dumbasses Like conservatives and libertarians

Sam is great at disarming people who dont know their stuff. They aren t as educated as sam. Thank god.

josh portie that’s a lie but ok

David Morris Lol yes . I have proof . Proof is reality. By right wing economics you mean a market that leans towards free market capitalism ? well that market is the most inclusive market there is. America is a great example

tj ti You can still have a free market capitalist leaning economy with a minimum wage and tax-funded social programs like universal healthcare. right wing economics is the idea that we should not worry about the little guy and increase incentives for the upper class and the value will trickle down to the rest of the economy. Most economists agree that it doesn’t fucking work

Nick W okay well I never said you can’t have that. That’s basically America today .since we are doing idiotic strawman I’ll do you one better , Right wing economics is based in pragmatism and fact rather than “oh we will just infinitely raise the minimum wage and make everyone millionaires “ . 100 percent of economist agree that doesn’t work moron

@@tjti2631 Whether or not you're right that free market capitalism is the best system for all people (I have my opinions on that, but it's not important), it's completely unrelated to the original statement made. The statement was that the concensus among economists is that right-wing economic policies are worse for the vast majority of people. In order for you to prove that was a lie, as you've claimed, you need to disprove the part about that being the concensus, not the actual value judgment.

Watch some of these other libertarian videos.... almost every one has the same laugh

It's called "the Libertarian, buying-time, 'Oh shit! Sam just asked me a real question' nervous chuckle.

A lot of assumption and nonsense in one comment. You could apply exactly what you wrote to any of the leftist subscribers of this channel.

modshroom a lot of big words with no real argument. Like a true leftist. Didn't want to edit this as I hate correcting leftists on the internet, like talking to a brick wall, but you clearly don't understand the society you live in. Wages have stagnated because of inflation and we need a correction within markets and a transfer of wealth, it's the cycle of things and you would do better to prepare yourself and your freinds and family. Instead of whining about the system, learn it and use it to your advantage and lift those up around you. Fucking leftists just want to see the best society known to man burn, and then what? What comes after? Enforced equality of outcome? A repressive socialist regime, where minds are enslaved and creativity crushed. Fuck you and everything you stand for.

You'll also notice that when Sam questions them about something specific, they suddenly can't hear. This gives them time to come up with a BS answer.

This guy is just like the caller, lots of words and no point. Just the people I like to read say different things than the people you like to read. That goes nowhere.

Meat Biscuits Holy crap you’re stupid.

nafets zlaw “you’re debunking everything with 3 sentences. Please let me verbalize an essay that makes no sense and highlights my total absence of education on the subject of libertarian ideas.”

Five minutes later he's given a "go ahead and talk". Then pauses, laughs nervously and blabbers on in vagaries for 40 seconds, gets frustrated at Sam for..... letting him talk.

Please: don't ask Libertarians too many questions, or they lose their train of thought. Also, let them speak. But not for too long, because they'll blabber on and lose their train of thought.

You do realise you don't pay people, your workers will leave. Good luck doing all the extra work load yourself, nobody wants to be a slave.

@Darth Maul The difference is that the families of those children are so desperate that they're willing/forced to send their kids to work. When families are financially stable, they very rarely let their kids work and pay attention to exactly what kind of work their kids are doing.

@@SadisticSenpai61 that's not a real difference though. If entry level, menial, and other low paying jobs could pay way less then theyd all pay way less so the bottom rung of the economy would just have a lot less money. Employment doesnt operate on supply and demand because there's always a coercion factor. Low wage workers are always at the risk of not being able to eat or pay bills if they lose their job. An unemployed low wage worker is against a clock trying to find a new job. Factor in that in a lot of jobs you get paid every two weeks and your check is a week or two weeks behind the labor you did. So on week 2 maybe you get one weeks pay or pay you dont get it until week 4. That's a really short time frame. Anyone who thinks the working poor arent at some level desperate has never had to struggle.

Also just another point even though the laborer has to wait 1-4 weeks to get paid for labor the company benefits right away. Those sorts of pay schedules are like a free loan to an employer to use your money for 1-4 weeks for whatever they want and pay no interest to the employee. It's all a stacked deck.

@Leviathan_Art "Nobody wants to be a slave" Evidently a lot of poor desperate people would settle for practically slave wages if it meant being able to provide their next meal. Ever heard of low-wage workers? Even setting that aside, do you consider the minimum wage in America a decent living wage? It's already the case for millions of Americans.

Exactly what I assume speaking to some permanent guests of a mental asylum is like.

It’s because this caller just claims Sam is wrong but NEVER explains how or why he is wrong. In other words, the caller is an idiot.

George Nelson reeeeeeee

Tyler Potts ...Greenspan is the best, most recent example of bumbling Libertarian/uber-neolibs admitting theyre wrong....after the fact

No, Greenspan's problem was that he didn't understand what most economists thought.

@@walexander8378a libertarian wouldn’t support a price control on money

+seth vanhaelst I heard Milton Friedman flew down from heaven with Noah and the baby Jesus to bestow his divine and irrefutable economic knowledge! Praise be to the great godlike economist!

ILikeMe 123 you can’t say Milton Friedman contribution to economics wasn’t great economist.

nope, libertarians are legit this dumb

What do you mean by that? (As I live in a country with no MW) and quite "proper unions" but I don't see your point, as the way the unions enforce their way is by power and by blockading the specific firm. That's a physical blockade btw.

nahiag No, that's not the only way for unions to influence something.

Economists consider unions to be labor cartels. Some food for thought.

Iberastur Yeah they basically function as a monopoly on the sale of labor. They push prices up, protect the insiders at the expense of outsiders and consumers. The phrase "Nice work if you can get it" rings true. Cushy jobs for me, the unemployment line for you.

Damn, the republicans did a good job deamonizing (YES I DONT KNOW HOW YOU SPELL THAT FUCK OFF) Unions. But yea there is some truth to it. In the past decades, Companies have learnd they just have to buy off the union leaders, and all issues are solved. (from their point of view) Here in germany, the government went along with it, making a law that basically sais" one company, one Union" (its a but more complicated because it always is but that is the gist of it) therefore if you think your union is full of corrupt dickheads? well nothing you can do about it, except find a new job and look for the best. No wonder people are leaving unions here... when ever i see that i want to both cry, and kill someone.

That would apply to every Libertarian caller. Of course, none of them seem to know much about feudalism, which is the inevitable end-game of Libertarianism.

Always lol they mention that their reception is so bad bc they are on their own grid

I have a feeling that I’ll still be doing this in 2030

@@aichpvee it's 2022 and I'm back

They would hire corpses to do the job if they could get away with it because this is how a pure profit incentive works.

This |||

The double standards of libertarianism knows no bounds.

I have noticed this too!

Amazingly dumb yeah

Uber alles

Exactly. Landlords like mine are extremely rare - he's retired and wants a project to keep himself busy. He doesn't really care as long as the property taxes are paid for and his general upkeep costs are covered. And that's why our rent is about $300 less than a similar sized apartment/duplex would cost per month. Oh and there's the fact that he's the only one charging that amount in the entire town. It's a college town - there's a hell of a lot of rental properties around.

Libertarianism is an ideology for the most powerful and rich at the expense of everyone else. How regular, everyday people could be duped into believing it supports their interests is beyond me.

Oh my. I would pay to see that.

I'll debate him/you. If you supply his quotes, I'll rebut them.

Hahahahaha.

OK so far we know you're capable of being amused and making brilliant comments such as, "This is simple. Sam is wrong." I'm giving you an opportunity to get beyond giggling like a schoolgirl and begging the question and show everyone here the depth of your ignorance. So far we've only seen the surface of it and have to imagine the rest. Care to show us?

I just had lunch with my old economics professor. He studied under Gary Becker. Who are you to call me ignorant?

Unions eliminates the need for a minimum wage. What many in nations with few Unionized workers etc understand is that in nation with strong Unions. RIGHT WINGERS support a minimum wage while left wingers do not. Because with worker leverage a minimum wage would cause issues with wage negotiations in a negative way. Its only in nations with few Union workers and low employee leverage that right wingers have the opposite view, for the same reason. They want the worker to be weak and the employer to be strong and get most of the gains.

It doesn't. Inflation is created by in increase of the money supply.

Okay so if a product's price reflects the procucers materials cost, operations overhead, and labor a cross the board increase in labor will not affect the base price how? Yes, increases in the minimum wage do effect the rate of inflation.

How is that not the capitalist's fault for not absorbing the cost to remain competitive? You're targeting your ire in the wrong direction. You're ignoring the very cause. You're also ignoring pre-production pricing by investors which is standard practice in big business.

catbuffalo So wait, the capitalist, (I assume you mean business owner), should absorb all federally mandated increases in wages without shifting any of the loss onto the consumer? If a business has only a 3.23% profit margin, like Walmart, how would they remain competitive if they absorb all the loss created by an increase of the wage of their work force? If an employer does not increase the prices of their goods they will have to fire a portion of their work force. Now how is losing their job that good for a low skilled worker? How is the increased burden of more people not paying taxes, because they lost their job to an unrealistic minimum wage, a benefit to society?

piwright42 Even if they have to increase the costs of goods, the amount they increase the cost doesn't offset the increased demand. According to a huffpost article, that cites a CUNY and Berkeley study the average cost per trip to walmart would increase by 40 cents if the minimum wage was increased to 12 dollars an hour. www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/18/walmart-worker-wages_n_3611531.html Now we can imagine that most of those people who benefit from a minimum wage hike have an extremely high propensity for spending, driving up demand, and increasing the quality of life for those who earn minimum wage. This article suggests there isn't a significant inflation effect from increasing minimum wage. truth-out.org/news/item/14050 What is an unrealistic minimum wage in your eyes?