Mom of Oxford Shooter Jennifer Crumbley Testifies in her Manslaughter Trial | Criminal Lawyer Reacts 

Who doesn't have 'mental health issues'?

and when he was caught trying to buy ammo before the shooting, she laughed and said just dont get caught

​@@brainstewXwhat kid needs a gun for a gift? And most people don't have serious mental health issues.

​@@soberreflection1773 kids have been gifted guns for centuries karen I had 5 in my room at the age of 12. And so did every single boy I knew. They shouldn't have bought the kid a gun though, simply because they were aware he was legit unstable. This is a dangerous precedent. You ready to go to prison when your 16 year old sneaks and drinks, then crashes into a school bus. You bought the car right

@@soberreflection1773 I agree. I don’t think any kid needs a gun. But I still don’t see that it’s clear anywhere that she knew he was unstable. She hadn’t seen all his notes. From seeing her on the stand she genuinely seemed to think he was messing around about the ghosts and the haunting of the house. I still don’t see how she is guilty when at worst she missed some signs or displayed poor judgement or was a bad parent.

Yes yes! I’m sorry about your friend

Wow. What a story. So sorry.

Well they did convict her so you can sleep a little easier tonight.

I'm glad your sharing your story if it resonates to one parent you could save tons of lies .

I am surprised that we didn’t hear that same crap about rights being violated in this case and if we did I’d ask what about the constitutional rights of the people who were killed by Ethan Crumbley? The parents were clearly unable to raise children 😢

That was the most obvious wrong answer. I can't believe it fell out of her mouth and that her lawyer asked it.

her testifying was a mistake imo

@@Denbrr Completely wrong. It was a question irrelevant to the charges and clearly didn’t seal her fate.

So you think the jury was wrong?@@vichikes

Also the jurors were interviewed the next day and that was what they cited as the final nail. @@vichikes

sounds like you need to be in a mental institution

I'm so sorry you weren't heard.

Thank you for saying this. Mental health is largely ignored in this country and we are really starting to see the consequences of that. You're brave and self-aware. We need more people to take personal responsibility for their actions, but instead everyone wants to point at everyone else. This country will not get better if we look the other way when shady shit goes down or walk away when we could intervene and help. At some point someone needs to be a grown up. But I guess if people actually started taking responsibility for their actions, Bruce would be out of a job. 😉

Mental health may be a stigma, but frankly, some parents just don't give a damn. Some parents aren't up to putting in the effort to be a good enough parent. They may not actively abuse their kid/s but they're neglectful and indifferent. Even healthy kids need parenting. Some parents shouldn't have become parents.

​@@evelynwaugh4053some parents are in complete denial. "There's nothing wrong with my child"

Disagree on the law?

@@HumanHamCube Clearly the jury also disagrees.

@@smoochera jury found OJ not guilty.

@@smoocherhaha they disagreed with OJ too tho tbf

Strawman argument ​@@CosmicAnimalClan

that's the whole point. the level of negligence she displayed does not rise to the standard of her charges. i think she's 100% guilty of some lesser charges, but in order to get her on involuntary manslaughter she has to have acted in some way to cause this. failure to act isn't enough.

@josie4401 one definition I found states criminal negligence is a "misfeasance" or "nonfeasance" (see omission), where the fault lies in the failure to foresee and so allow otherwise avoidable dangers to manifest. In some cases this failure can rise to the level of willful blindness, where the individual intentionally avoids adverting to the reality of a situation. I think this definition fits the situation perfectly.

@@josie4401she bought her disturbed violent child a gun…

@@theAverageJoe25 No she did not, her husband did. At least pay attention to the facts.

@@josie4401 Negligent failure to act is actually a valid basis for charging manslaughter. Go back and read the judge's instructions to the jurors regarding the two theories (one of which must be proven by the state) in play in terms of manslaughter. The one that applies here is the "failure to perform a legal duty" theory. The idea behind that is that Jennifer (and James) were presented with a legal duty once they saw that drawing by Ethan. Their duty, at that point, was to do one of 3 things: check Ethan's backpack themselves, mention the recent gun purchase to the counselor, or take Ethan home. The reason the legal duty came into play - at least in Jennifer's case - is that she admitted on the stand that she did not know if the gun was secured (she just left it up to James). Any reasonable parent who doesn't know if the 9mm gun they just bought for their son was secured - when presented with a drawing of that specific content - would have done one of those 3 things there at the school, just to make sure he didn't have the gun. By failing to exercise reasonable care to ensure that Ethan was removed from the gun at that point, they placed the lives of everyone at the school in jeopardy - thus it was a negligent failure to act.

I totally agree so many lives ruined including Ethan’s 😢

Excellent comment.

i guess with everybody ive lost this year that someone should have me psychologically evaluated! the fact that no one has means they should be held criminally negligent for anything i decide to do? youre dense

I agree with you but if the parents are guilty of criminal negligence then by definition you SHOULDNT be able to charge him as an adult then.

This is the question I wonder about. How is this kind of criminal liability on parents going to intersect with the law allowing minors to be charged and tried as adults?

SAME!

Same

Yup, that’s for sure and luckily I live in MN

​@@PrinceCharmingsMom2930hopefully you're rich too lol

Yeah but I bet he ain't cheap... lol

the long videos breathe life back into us

“Guy watches Bruce rivers video, absolutely LOSES his mind, TASER DEPLOYED!!” Your Bruce rivers reaction video lol 😂

@@carlycaye90😊😊

here for it

That doesn't make her guilty of involuntary manslaughter lol.

When you people tech kids about transgenders and stray away from basic biology, your certification should be pulled. You are the danger in the country.

While I know there are crappy parents out there who don't want to believe their kid is capable of failing or being a bad kid, teachers and school administrators do keep important things from parents. At two separate elementary schools in different states, my son was bullied and punched. The only way I found out is from my son telling me at both schools. One time he got pink eye from getting punched in the eye and his doctor confirmed he had ocular bruising from the punch. The school refused to punish the bully. I was punishing my son at home for not doing his schoolwork and lying about his homework but the school refused to punish him. He's an adult now and has told me he didn't do the homework because he knew the school wouldn't do anything about it. There are situations where the school doesn't communicate with the parents and doesn't take appropriate actions.

@mollyrider9044: As a professor, I agree 💯! Even if the school had an iota of suspicion he was dangerous, yes, they should have called the parents. However, I don't just leave it up to administration, I call myself. Having said that, it's the parents responsibility to call the school, talk to teachers and basically, stay involved! Schools aren't daycare & were not babysitters. Let me ask you: How many parents take the time to show up for Open House these days?

Screw your teaching license. The kid said “I’m going to buy a gun and hurt people” have you lost your mind putting the blame on others? Even if it cost your teaching license is it worth the life of the other children? You people make me sick. Disgusting.

Yes. I agree with this completely. The parents are so unconcerned with the wellbeing of their child, more like they are offended that you noticed a problem. These parents are insane and should be held accountable! They act like they own the child until the child commits a crime, then the kid is on his own. It’s insane. And denial is sometimes the issue, but sometimes they know and have no concern for the child or anyone else.

Even if they didn't use it, they bought a lock, which shows intent that they thought about safety at some point.

@@lilkevin219 It’s not enough to *think* about safety, lock your effing guns!!

@@lilkevin219imagine being this stupid, you need help

@@soude85and ammunition. But didn’t she say she but didn’t she say she hid the ammunition?

@@LadyBirchthey hid both separately, or at least Dad did. If you look into that community, guns are pretty common and so is going to the shooting range for kids there. Ethan was failed by his parents but he was failed by the school too and the community overall, as many people said they had concerns about him but kept them quiet. The legal issue people seem to have is that the parents were charged with Manslaughter, when they personally didn’t commit the crime. Negligence charges might have been more appropriate legally, but the community was clearly angry this occurred and the DAs charges certainly represent that anger and desire to punish this family for Ethans personal actions that he was charged as an adult in.

Are you bringing sarcastic?

The mother of the Sandyhook shooter did the same thing, but of course, she was never tried because he killed her first.

@@lisadavis9535she might have been. Courts don’t prosecute the deceased

Btw~ I predict the residing judge is going to give Jennifer C. the minimum time. No more than 3 years. Idk why, I just feel it will settle the dispute between those who feel she was not responsible and those who disagree.

you'd better take that back that's akin to blasphemy in America! how dare you imply that we shouldn't be recklessly handing out lethal weapons to children and mentally unstable people. what are you, some kind of commie?

the school counsellor said he would be able to stay at schoolm

The principal wanted him gone, the counselor was siding w the kid. The mom had a responsibility to take his death threats seriously instead of narcissistically thinking he was joking, because how could "HER kid do bad things?" Maybe not manslaughter but criminal neglect.

WRONG!! THE COUNSELOR AND DEAN OF SCHOOL GAVE THEM A CHOICE!! SO MUCH MIS INFORMATION OUT THERE, ITS GROSS!!

Yes. And to add to that, she was at the school meeting for 11 minutes, said she didn’t have time to take Ethan home but had texted her boyfriend to meet up that day so they could have sex. 😖

⁠@@BlessedMomfmTexas Shawn Hopkins, the counselor, recommended the parents take him out of school and get immediate mental health assistance. They declined because they said they didn’t want to miss work, and agreed to take him to a mental health professional within 48 hours. The then-dean, Nicholas Ejak, testified that he didn’t check his bag because he didn’t think there was a reason to. Despite having recently bought the kid a gun (her words, not mine), no one mentioned it to school officials. This is notable because a gun and bullets were drawn in guys book. That was, in part, the reason the meeting was called to begin with. Eiak further stated that he was perplexed at their decision to leave him in school because, “typically, when it’s recommended, the parents take their children to seek out mental assistance immediately, they follow the direction of the mental health professional, and that’s been my experience every time.”

In Europe, as long the parents did not give him keys they would not be found at fault. Honestly this could go either way. There’s a billion shit ass parents. There’s not a billion school shooters. I think both parties suck, but i guess i feel like terrible parenting isn’t necessarily criminal.

im inclined to agree with you, and luckily so was the court

They never handed it to him for him to keep. Where is this mile past the line? Everyone got a screw loose. Doing shit like shooting guns can make some people feel better. Some people are just evil like their child. These parents are evil but theyre not criminals imo

And i think she was trying to pretend those loose screws weren't really loose! It seems like many parents think loosely along the lines of: you're a kid you can't have any serious problems that can't be chalked up to teen angst and or rebellion and they'll grow out of it. And parents may think getting their child help somehow is going to reflect negatively on their parenting skills, the material things they're able to provide or not and they believe that if their child sees a mental health professional that child will be negatively labeled for life. All of which probably place the parents needs above the childs i think. It's hard for me to understand that this mom was herself seeing a mental health professional and was rx-ed nerve meds but she completely missed that her son (who she testified she was close with) wanted help with his mental health🫤

Please keep sharing this, this needs to be heard.

As someone who was a paralegal for over 20yrs I can tell you that Defense attorneys ALWAYS over react to guilty verdicts!! 😊

Ethan told someone at the school they went target shooting. So they knew they had guns.

@hollymeredith4148, yep, Shawn Hopkins clearly testified to this, yet somehow dependent counsel (and defendant) appeared to completely miss it. They didn't even bring it up in cross.

There is no evidence that anyone but the shooter was aware of the drawings. I just wanted to clarify that point. Should the gun have been secured, absolutely. Should dad have purchased a handgun, absolutely not.

Thank you!! From a former school psychologist...

Along with that,the fact he is 15, begged for help over and over and was ignored is negligence. Buying a gun where he could have access to it or know where to find it, is also negligent. If the parents got him help, didn't have weapons available in the home, then this may not have happened.

@@shaynalange7488 .... long live the 2nd amendment ... at the expense of everybody else

​@rnangel69 school psychologists should have also been held accountable then because they said with their professional opinion that he was not a risk.

Ya, you know. Cause that damned gun did the shooting on its own. Stupid 2nd amendment.

A teenage boy who was clearly mentally distressed and wanted help, but was denied. Ethan still made the choice to do what he did but his parents failed him completely.

That seems not entirely fair to the parent

My first time disagreeing as well. I have to agree with you.

I think we all agree here in theory, Bruce can’t help but view things through a legal defense lense.

This is the exact comparison I use even saying vodka lol. That is the pure reason I would accept charges being put on the parents. The added evidence about ignoring mental illnesses and not removing their child from school the day of when school staff had said he needs help also heavily salts my opinion. I do find a trap in our logic that I don't have a clear answer for, how would I feel if the kid was instead 18 or 19, still under 21 and thus not allowed to legally acquire the vodka or that weapon.

I don’t think there is much doubt they were bad parents. They are not on trial for neglect or negligent parenting though. They are on trial for involuntary manslaughter which means that they are being accused (and she is now convicted) of being reckless as to the reasonably foreseeable result of her actions being that her son would kill those people. I don’t think that it was reasonably foreseeable to her that he would kill people and I don’t think therefore she can be found to have been reckless regarding that to the extent that charge requires. Reasonably foreseeable consequences for Ethan of their dysfunctional marriage, substance abuse, poor supervision etc might very well be that he developed depression or substance use/behavioural issues but did she have insight into her behaviour & did she know how he was feeling? They didn’t prove that I think. Is it reasonably foreseeable that a depressed teenager who feels as though nobody is helping him, not school, not home, nobody, will shoot up his school? With hindsight maybe but with foresight? It seems like Ethan did not share what he wrote in his journal with people, parents & school didn’t communicate effectively with each other what they each knew about him. I think all the adults around Ethan failed to help him, the school, his family but does that mean they should be held criminally responsible for him taking a gun and, after a long period of premeditation, executing several other children? Not in my view. Perhaps they should be held legally responsible for their neglect of him but that is different to the idea that they knew he was or was very likely to kill people and just didn’t care.

​@@curiositykilledkat1​part of finding someone guilty of manslaughter is proving there was gross negligence. So yes, the parents being neglectful to their child trying to communicate to them he needs mental help and then buying him the murder weapon is relevant to them being guilty.

@@WickedWitchOfOz1 gross negligence re the death though, not negligent parenting.

Ethan also wrote in his journal that he gave his dad the money for the gun. If that comes into the dad’s trial he is toast.

​@@curiositykilledkat1thank you

And if I remember correctly the search of the house, cops found the lock for this weapon still in the pacakging.

Well I think we need to have evidence from the Dad to get the full picture. She could have taken the phone and the gun (i.e., told the Dad to take them, especially since she had no experience with guns) and the Dad never did or gave them back after an hour or 2. It sounds like and is completely believable that she left all of the gun stuff up to the Dad, since she had very little experience with guns.

Nonsense. The fact that "they took the gun from him" as a punishment shows she knew he had unrestricted access to it. She also took Ethan to the range with the 9mm, bought the bullets and actually fired it after he had. So she didn't leave all the gun stuff to Dad. Interesting that she could see how much recoil it had...how much more powerful it was when she fired it. She posted images of it on Facebook and she asked Ethan if he'd shown an image of it to his teachers after he was caught searching for bullets in class(!). @@Cameron_F

That was with the Keltec in the gun safe. Could have been for the Sig Sauer or the Keltec - either way one of the cable locks was missing as trigger guards or cable locks are sold with each gun. The gun safe's lock code was the default one - 000. You couldn't make it up! @@MzUpliftingTea

​@@Cameron_Fbut she didn't testify to any of that.

He likes to draw he would draw pictures of his new toy that's all it is to them a toy .

A toy is an object in which a child uses to play, he is not a child and you don't play with guns. Sad to see them call it a toy @@therealz360z7

Permissive parenting at its best, do whatever just don’t bother me. It’s all over the USA like a disease. It’s where spoiled, entitled meet neglect. It’s why they cuss out teachers and throw furniture in classrooms regardless of how it might hurt others.

that's the issue, though. being a shitty parent should not translate to criminal negligence. i think the dad buying him the gun knowing he has mental health issues is more in line with criminal negligence.

@@josie4401 both parents are aware of the gun and should've done their due diligence in securing it so ethan wouldn't have access to it. but instead, they left in a safe without a probably passcode, they might as well leave it on the dining table...

Just lawyer boing lawyer.

​@@josie4401that's the thing. I think this whole thing speaks to the fact that people having trouble comprehending a teen doing something like this, and want somebody to blame.

That’s right unbrickablee ‼ I would have taken my child from the school that day and I would have spoken to him lovingly, but we’d talk and then see a professional. This kid was reaching out practically screaming for help, but mommy had a boyfriend and her horses and stuff.

Guilty verdict, thank God. And yes, big L take from Bruce here.

@@Etrius10yep big L. Seems like he’s biased and making a lot of assumptions. Also he’s not a big fan of prosecutors if I’m correct 😒 lol

Isn’t the minor allowed to own a gun? Genuinely asking, not trying to be facetious - if he is allowed to own the gun, I do see a difference in the two, although I’m not saying it’s right

​@@user-xq9cl3pw4cit's his first time looking at the case..of course hes making assumptions

I disagree. It's more analogous to parents buying their teenager a car, which the kid then kills someone with by choosing to drink and drive.

It's definitely a lot of things, but to charge the parents is not a good place to go.

It is an insane reach to go from "my kid is down enough to not go bowling" to "My child is going to become the next school shooter". Shame on you for trying to make that gap look smaller than it is.

But guess what? Not a criminal offense.

Looks like the jury disagrees with you@@juliaroy1382

Criminal stupidity isn’t a charge.

Technically that is the case. But they would have to prove negligence and that the accident was a foreseeable event that any reasonable person with the same level of knowledge would be able to either predict or anticipate. On top of that they would have to then show not only did he NOT take action to prevent it. But also did not live up to the social or legal contracts that his position and property would entail. For a Farmer it would be like having a fence. Or a method of making sure the live stock does not interfere with traffic. Doing periodic checks. And if even the bare min is done. Most likely the charges would not stick. Problem here.... There was no bare min. The parents were made aware of his issues. And of his mental state. They did not take it seriously. That in and of its self is not enough. But Combined with lack of actual parental guidance or care. The Providing a fire arm to him. Lack of care in securing fire arm. Failure to act when the school contacted them the first time. LYING to the school. Failure to act the day of when they were shown evidence that any reasonable person would see and arrive at a conclusion of action needing to be taken. Failure to inform the School about the firearm or take any action to ascertain its location. And also add in that She in particular lied about why and was in fact with an affair partner at the time. (moral implications don't mater. It was the fact that it was a personal thing to attend to rather than a work one and one for enjoyment rather than necessity. Proving that they failed to take it seriously enough.) It was not just one thing. If either parent had taken even the smallest measure before the day of. This would not have even made it to trial. Hell the Judge practically babied the defense team on this one. Parents can be held responsible for Damages of property of their minor Children. They can be held responsible for the Children skipping school. They can be held responsible for if the Children get into Drugs they have or Alcohol. We have Precedent for hold them responsible for some of a Minors actions. This is just a case where said actions were Murder. And yes he was charged as an adult. For his Actions that day. However their is nothing in the legal system saying others could not be charged with accessory or with neglect.

the only thing I don't agree with, because I'm not sure if there is capital punishment in the state where this took place: otherwise electrocution followed by firing squad while still strapped to same chair.

There’s not enough evidence to prove without a reasonable doubt she was criminally negligent

I’m also a Michigan resident and I respectfully disagree with the verdict and the precedent it sets. I do however agree that she failed miserably as a parent and she should probably not be the parent to another child

The school said that they thought he was a danger to HIMSELF not others. They said to keep him at school. They said wow that bag is heavy and never checked it. The school kept stuff from the parents.

She lied and said the gun was in the car to her boyfriend. I missed that. What a bitch. She knew.

@@julieo4580 Started with the parents, they bought the gun for a kid that's telling them he is having delusions and needed help. If the school thought he was a danger to himself after seeing that drawing she should have too. She couldn't get out of there fast enough. You would think after being sent that photo the first thing she would have done is got home asap to check that gun was still there before going into the school. That drawing had warning signs written all over it.

That applies to the teachers as well. Will you now demand they all be held accountable for his actions as well?

This is a common retort when the responsibility of parents is brought up, and the answer is yes. The school also failed in their duty and everyone down the line should be held accountable. What's your next "gotcha" going to be?

Amen 🙏🏿 he’s showing his arrogance here. Watches a couple clips and he’s got it all figured out. There’s hours of testimony to consider and the closing prosecution arguments.

Yep and as a firefighter, he immediately knew what to check.

I mean, you do not have to watch his videos if you dont like the way he does things. Why should he change what he is doing?!

Did that actually when I was 12. My parents made me take responsibility and pay for it. I worked it off on a dairy farm. It taught me responsibility

I live in Wayne County and totally agree with you. I don't get why anyone would believe anything this "mom" said due to her lying from the get go. She so failed her kid and in that failing the community. Dad sucked to but mom seemed to be worse.

Exactly!! She lied on the stand more than once.

Didn't she say gun was in her car, when BF asked?

Mom was having too much fun having an affair to worry about her son or the safety of others.

@@mickeyphillips6603having an affair isn’t a crime. I really wish she could somehow switch places with you, so you would be locked away instead…. Grrrr

Multiple red flags can be missed yet we don’t blame battered women for being with abusive men

@@TravisDoesGames battered women don't buy their abusers weapons.

@@PhatsyKline in spirit they do

@@TravisDoesGames how so?

@@PhatsyKline it’s definitely not exactly the same and it’s definitely not exactly comparable but when you allow someone to do things to you that you’re uncomfortable with you’re giving them weapons. like the ability to coerce someone is similar to having a weapon on them.

Yes, if you buy a gun for your child, you are responsible for how they use it. Should not be debatable.

I watched the entire trial from day 1. She isn’t guilty.

The school didn't tell her shit

Yeah because they know that under this DA if they back her up and admit anything that could possibly be construed as foreknowledge then they’re likely going to end up getting charged.

@@meglukesAre you talking about Dana Nessel? If so, you prejudice is peaking out.

They did back her up. Nobody saw this coming

Maybe i have more insight on this case than a lawyer and a witness under oath. Please stop yapping. This is a game changer only in the sense that it sets a dangerous precedent that will disproportionately harm poor or minority families. But you know, it’s “justice”. Where is the line drawn? Answer that? Where is the line drawn for culpable negligence? At what point are my actions separated from the actions of others?

No, Samuel, you stop YOUR yapping. It's paranoid and unhinged. Get help.

@@mcrachelgrace9568 Explain? What part of what I said was paranoid and unhinged?

​@@samuelhong4272 not sure about you being unhinged but you are coming off as an ass. Not sure if that's what you are going for. If so keep going. If not maybe check they way you talk to people in order to get your point across.

❤❤

I love your post! You are so right on. My parents were made us feel like we were just a pain raising us. Many Years later I found out something horrible that happened in our house under their watch. My parents were just as responsible as the “perpetrator.”

Right on. My “parents” were awful to me and my siblings too. Our “mother” would constantly tell us how much she wanted to run away to somewhere nobody called her Mom. Real sweet lady, that “mom”.

Hugs, My mother did not hate me, she just never cared about me, her own words.

So how come you came out ok? How bad can your parents be if you didn't murder anyone?

Use common sense. Do you have a teenager? If my parents took my phone away i snuck it back. He was literally in a shed. 😂 You think if he had permission to have that cell phone he would've been hanging out in a SHED?

Defendant is a TERRIBLE communicator, I could NOT BELIEVE she didn't say that! She should have said, we did not give it back, he must have taken it without permission, DUH!

@@juliaroy1382he was in shed bc the mother kicked him out of the house that night over missing assignments. This was discussed in the trial… she also slipped and said “we took the gun range away and his gun” then a few minutes later when the prosecutor Called her out on saying they took his gun away and she said oh I meant phone. Come on now.

Typical of the US to blame the parent particularly the Mum, let’s NOT blame your gun laws let’s deflect let’s find a little woman who can be mad3 to seem like a villain, and who is already quite submissive to the system, who’s parenting skills are not wonderful and maybe could have done things differently, but by no means are they criminal. How many other parents do exactly the same things, how many are so busy trying to keep their heads above the water to make ends meet, to me this all seems ludicrous. The parent who should be looked at is the ones running your country, look at your gun laws, look at your policing! I would also be looking at the school they were aware of things that should have been shared with the parents, that school let it’s pupils down drastically. This is so sad lives ruined for ever, and I can imagine they want retribution but honestly I think your going down a dangerous path doing this,I see a rocky road ahead especially for women in the US, with your abortion laws and the way women are treated in your criminal system, it is diabolical!

Agree, she told him don't get caught which was her plan for life.....well she got caught now 😊

Had no idea about this other information. Thanks.

WOW…. THANK YOU.

Wait, so the school was aware of how disturbed he was yet still allowed him to attend the school? Why aren't the teachers and school staff also being held accountable for his actions since they could've also done more to ensure this wouldn't happen?

"Being a bad parent does not make you criminally negligent"

But according to your statement, the school already knew very well that he had massive problems. Why isn't the Dean on trial, who testified for the prosecution at the trial, stating, among other things, that he saw no problem with leaving the boy at school on the day of the crime because he was "no danger to the school"? So why isn't he charged with involuntary manslaughter? Is there negligence on the part of the parents? Absolutely. But where do we draw the line here?

You and your husband are responsible, good parents.

Yeah the fact that this kid used guns to commit his crimes is almost irrelevant the kid was begging for help so much so that he wrote about it multiple times in his journals and the parents failed to help or act THEY are also liable.

And I was also,, my old man had all kinds of guns and they were always in one room, unfortunately it wasn't locked but we knew we weren't supposed to go in there... He did teach us to shoot when we were really young, me and my brothers and although he gave us BB guns at first, at like 9 or 10 he gave us 22s and a 410 shotgun but the point is, even though we could have just kept them in our rooms we didn't... And he didn't give us any pistols, which is where I think these parents really messed up... You don't just give a kid a pistol and especially if you live in town and especially if the kid is kind of shall we say a little odd.... There's lots of odd people around and most of them are perfectly fine however what kind of idiot parent gives their kid a pistol AND ammunition AND then fills their own life with extramarital affairs and stupid stuff to the extent that they don't even know what their own kid is doing?

@@Hwarang-lee. -that’s the part those Crumbleys can’t justify. Their kid is begging for mental health help and they didn’t give him held….they didn’t even give him their time.

@@micnorton9487 -exactly right!

Half of all jurors are like half the population and have half their brain cells firing. Studies showed that jurors think 90% of all defendants are guilty BEFORE the trial starts because “well the police arrested them.”

I can’t get over that part either. As a mother, that part isn’t sitting right with me. I think charges should certainly be filed but I’m not convinced manslaughter is appropriate. They seem like neglectful, shitty parents that seriously failed their child but I can’t see how parents could have imagined their child would do this. I imagine there has to be more appropriate charges.

Agree. I think they were crap parents and completely out of touch with their son. As a mom to 2x teens, we have constant check-ins. The guns we own are in a heavy-duty locked safe.

@@joank.0421 thank you for being a responsible firearm owner 🥹 especially with teens. Truly.

I swear 99% of people don’t realize this cause they only watch news clips.

I thought she did it to show that the affair didn't necessarily take time away from Ethan because she was doing it when Ethan was in school 🤷🏼‍♀️

@@BallzDeep666right…. Just like the guy who made this video lol 😂 clearly only watched snippets of this trial.

The defense attorney is doing more harm than good. Mrs Crumbley would've fared better with freebie State defense rather than this pro bono bonehead.

That's true, but on the other hand it didn't stop the prosecution from referring to it again and again during the cross - right up to the absurd statement that she had spent time not only carrying out but "planning" the meetings with lovers in order to insinuate that this "planning time" had somehow taken away time with her son. The shaming in this case was completely out of proportion and just absurd. The vast majority of the arguments were a nothingburger.

The proper accountability lies with the perpetrator, Ethan.

border*

NO lmao. She didn't run to the border 😂

Seriously find your brain and stop getting "facts" from social media.

Exactly. This unstable teenager, who had been fantasizing about committing violence for a significant time, would not have had access to a gun if his parents hadn’t provided him one, taught him to use it, and left it unsecured. Just before he went on his killing rampage he was in the school office with his parents discussing the violent drawings and statements he made on his math work. The parents refused to take him home.

I understand why people disagree with Bruce because of the horrifying and devastating nature of the crime, and the evidence she was clearly negligent in the sense she didn't seek help for her child and allowed him to have a gun, but did her actions cause him to commit the shooting? From a legal standpoint it sets a serious precedent for future cases that may involve caregivers and teachers. Hindsight is key here. How many parents seriously consider that their depressed child may become a school shooter? Hands up, I'm not American and we don't really have school shootings here, so maybe this is why I'm finding it easier to separate the crime from the future possibilities of this ruling.

@@squizzle5192are you stupid or something?

If you keep your guns in a safe with the combo 000 and think sticking a gun in a cookie jar is gun safety YOU SHOULD BE SCARED.

Because who says he was depressed? His journal? And you know she knew this journal contents? This is laughable

@@usaroxx8085 this kid had a record of bad behavior going back years, no one in their right mind should purchase a gun for someone like that. He was publicly making death threats to people..........

His mom said that he was depressed.

Ethan clearly states in his apology video to his parents that he was sorry for tricking them and making them trust him. They considered his journal private and didn’t see it. Ethan put his journal in his backpack for the world to see. It was intentional to make them look bad and get sympathy. These parents are not a danger to society, why are we paying for their existence the rest of their lives?

"Depressed" no, what she said was he felt "down" and he didnt want to go bowling. how do you infer that to condemn someone who may have very well not known better? @@OshunMoon-bq8ne

Yes those things had nothing to do, but she was still guilty of ignoring her child had scary issues

She needs a new attorney who knows how to object. It took her atty SO LONG.

That part.😮

So parents need to be mental health experts?

@@Roguewarrior37No but people with guns need to be responsible for choices they make with guns

​@@kamkam3457and I think the kid got held responsible for his actions. No parents goes around and think their kids gonna grow up to become a school shooter

You didn't even Watch the video, huh!? Talkin out your 💩🕳️.

You realise that she meant if she only had the same information that was available to her at the time, right?

That one statement sealed her coffin.

​@@marcusolsen96no lol, that isn't what the question was. The question was "would you do anything differently?" That totally assumes you do have the knowledge of today

@@asafoster7954You cannot be serious? So according to you, the question was actually “if you had known that in a few hours, your son would take the lives of four other students and injure several more - would you have done something different?” I don’t know what else to say, except that you and everyone else who believes that’s the question she was answering, are fools… But at least it makes more sense to me now, how it’s possible for so many fools to want to take this woman’s life from her. She’s already lost her son. Leave her alone ffs. But no, ofc not - because this world is a cruel place and true empathy is something that barely even exists at all.

@@marcusolsen96 that's the question she was asked lol

American here, agree with you completely.

I think it comes across that way but even looking back she really didn't feel he was a danger to others not that it wasn't her problem she did not see any red flags there was nothing that was sticking out to her

Agree 💯

That part was really effing sad

Shit happens. It wasn't her fault

​@PotentiallyCriminal Giving a kid at that age a gun is absolutely insane and I'm pretty sure ILLEGAL??

Of course because if she didn't leave him at school she would have no time to have her affair. She's a trash parent.

She’s not trained to identify mental illness. Yeah she should have been a lot better as a parent. Yeah the gun should have been locked up. Is she criminally negligent?

@@TravisDoesGames Yes. According to the jury, yes she was. She's not trained to identify mental illness, but she repeatedly shut down her son's request to get some.

According to this lawyer, it is legal to be a narcissist, being more into horses, skiing, and be promiscuous than taking care of your kid because you know... is protected by law! Remember we live in a society were protecting the rights of people is more important than being a responsible parent... and this lawyer is totally cool with it. Or rather, he is cool with it because he needs chaos in the world to justify his profession and make bread.... Rights are more important than morals according to him!

Americans will literally blame everything but themselves for not having gun control

Narcissists can be incredibly emotionally stupid. A few of them even lie well.

what signs of depression can you please tell? she is not isolating herself, very well connected. fully immersed in various hobbies that she enjoys. she functions well at her workplace. she enjoys parties and vacations. I've been suffering from major depression myself since 7 years. I see ZERO signs, apart from her no-affect, nonchalant attitude which is who she is. she does not care about anything other than whatever she wants to do and enjoys. that's it.

Or “nestled goods”

😂

This might be the only channel I don't mind listening to adds from. The misadventures of mischevious basement grandma are great, too. 😂

@@joanjava1 polished gems

@@jay-el-bee don't miss out on YT'er Philion, his promos are always tucked within his vids ( the older ones where he makes fun of fake Fitness influencers on Instagram are always good😅) in the most hilarious ways. His content overall is pretty good, some of the newer videos have somewhat of a grimmer tone, but overall I appreciate his channels progression. His deadpan delivery is great!

LITERALLY!

Agreed.

Yep 👍

Agreed

How would they possibly know their kid is going to jump to the final level of shooting up a fucking school? I mean if my kid were depressed I would try to figure out WTF is going on but I wouldn’t immediately assume, “oh no my kid is going to shoot up a school.” The way the parents handled the whole getting their son a gun, that’s what went wrong in this case. Father should’ve been way more attentive and should’ve made sure those guns were locked up at any time they weren’t being used at a range.

Common sense.... Common sense is the school should have suspending the kid for his actions prior to the incident... Not everyone has common sense...

@@StillKeepOnLosingSadly, common sense isn’t common. 💔

My experience is very similar to yours. Non-violent (but suicidal) bipolar that was undiagnosed as a child, also with guns in the home. Other than the guns, what my parents did very differently than these parents is they saw I was in distress, believed me when I said I wasn't ok, and helped me get treatment asap. I was hospitalized, had therapist and meds, and they cared and believed me every step of the way. These parents said no when their teen asked for therapy. He was distressed by (what I'll call) hallucinations, which were written off as him playing a weird joke. I had horrifying hallucinations as a child. My mom thought it was a combination of an overactive imagination and scary TV shows. But it didn't matter that she didn't believe I was actually seeing it. She got me help because my distress was real. These parents didn't provide reasonable care to their son.

@@StillKeepOnLosingIf memory serves me well, the school counselor mentioned the reason for the call to EC’s parents was due to his suicidal ideation as depicted from his drawings on his math assignment, not a discipline issue. Taking that into consideration, would there be grounds to suspend? I’m not defending the school, but it appears it may have had its hands tied taking the suspension route. Crying shame no one cared (i.e., his parents) to either search his belongings or take him home/hospital as a normal, concerned, loving parent would do.

@@2and26 if the school thinks a child is actively suicidal, they certainly didn't do much about it. Definitely a really hard position for the educational staff. But the school had full right to search his backpack and locker, if they truly thought he was suicidal, it is very strange that did not happen.

20 more couldve died if something changed. You dont know how he would have reacted. assuming is a stupid game to play when law is involved.

GREAT POINT!!! Hope the prosecution addresses this.

Teens get depressed from time to time, you don't go out and put them on xanax. What the hell is wrong with you! Depression doesn't always need ssris, that's for a serious chemical imbalance, not hormonal changes or situational depression

boo hoo

Also SSRI's are sometimes more dangerous for teens than the depression itself.

There is no proof she said to suck it up. It’s hearsay.

The god bless your grandma comment took me OUT 😂

You gotta root for Grandma, she’s a real pistol. Just like Bruce’s pearl handled pistol cuff links that Michael fitted him❣️