They slam them together and don't care, the profit made from a shoddy pallet of bulk gpus, CPUs, boards, cases, power supplies etc and pumped out at high volume makes a decent profit even when 10% are DOA.
What is more confusing, why not send a brand new sealed 4090 under warranty back to the seller instead to a 3rd party repairer to just be a paperweight and a donor card?????😵💫
Here in NZ that card costs $3500 NZD ($2100 USD). That's a fair amount of coin lost to oxidization due MSI's penny pinching, incompetence, or both. Ouch.
just another reason now on why not to buy MSI stuff. I "reluctantly" bought an MSI board a few months ago after I had a couple Asus boards crap out on me. now I have new fears.
@@utley It's every company nowadays. Lowering quality as much as possible, cutting costs wherever to maximise profit. These decisions were not made from the engineers or designers but the cancer that exists in every big corpo. Also they know how to to fix the GPU sag but they don't want to, because it doesn't benefit them in any way. The market is full or unregulated mediocre products that have planned obsolescence a bit after the warranty they give you.
This is complete non sense and an irresposible comment, these type of things happens on every company, not only msi, happens on asus, zotac, evga, intel, the list goes on.... The real thing is not about the mistakes but how they handle the aftermath. I own a 4090 trio as well and is happily running on my rig since december. That poor fella just got unlucky.... now... why he choose to send it to him instead of claiming the warranty is beyond me.
I've seen pics of a brand new MSI laptop where the assembler didn't boither using the standoffs for the M.2 dtrive. Just screwed them right to the board! Qulity control just ain't a thing there!
It’s bound to happen, just because something is rare doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Quality control just reduces the likelihood of things like this happening but there will always be units that slip through the cracks for any number of reasons
The same thing happened to der8auer's ASUS 4090 STRIX, he sent it to KrisFix-Germany My guess is the boards sat in some warehouse for a long time before getting into the assembly line and getting the GPU and VRAM soldered on them
I wager a guess, the prebuilt seller refused to take care of it, attempting to blame the customer; subsequently conflict resolution of a payment platform (eBay/Amazon/PayPal) stepped in and awarded the customer a refund on the entire purchase. Of course after that, the customer no longer need to return the build to the seller. Seller acted on the worst instincts of a businessman and ended up getting schooled for that. Seller is responsible for RMA handling. Obviously in this case the seller would do no such thing. MSI does have a contingency for just this sort of case, that there is a warranty active from date of manufacture without valid proof of purchase. It's unclear though what would happen, since the card clearly suffered physical (transport) damage. Those ripped pads are indicative of that. Well it's also obvious the card wasn't soldered correctly because of oxide covered pads, but it's not the primary reason why it was DOA.
@@Jonathan900S well, that gpu is 3x times the price of the whole pc, so no reason to return full computer back, makes no sense, unless "it fell off a truck" as someone said earlier.
Many of the pads under a GPU or RAM are carrying the same voltage or signal so if one stops working the rest still complete the circuit. Defective work can remain hidden until the failure reaches a tipping point. This is how a card like this can cascade through multiple checks only to quickly fail in an end users hands.
Not to mention there's a chance those problematic solder joints make contact at first but stop after some thermal cycles, jostling during shipping, and/or being installed in a way that bends the PCB.
But they are not designed to carry excess load so eventually the ones that are working will fail too. The pads are repeated for a reason ... to balance the load.
@@MrNukealizer You can have a bad solder joint unoticed for years, just the leg of an ic over the pad. Seen than on car body control modules. It will pas all the quality checks and even run for months on the end customer before something shows up. There are some AI inspection machines that use image procesing (which have learned from a set of PROPER soldered boards) to catch these things. But for BGA, ... I dont know.
Not lucky I have mine for almost a year as well no issues exact same card. Who knows why that card was damaged like that. 4090s are just heavily scrutinized because of the price. No piece of mass produced hardware is ever going to have 0 bad apples produced. It makes good content to bash on one though 😂
Wow the customer didn't even bother to RMA his card since it was DOA. Perhaps it involved needing him to ship the card back and it was tedious, but he did ship it to northwestrepair for an attempted repair........
What’s sad is the basic math skills of many. If he got a full refund then send the 4090 back for RMA, get a new one and sell it for $1200. Make money from the experience or just use the card in something else. Don’t understand the logic of not getting a warranty item taken care of instead sending to a shop then just give them a $1600 card for free.
I thought that you said you were going to explain why the screws were loose "later" .. but then didn't. It does seem like a loose heat sink that vibrated during shipping might explain why so many pads got ripped, but that doesn't explain why the screws were loose.
Clearly there is more to the story. The owner didn't just buy a prebuilt with this card in it. Otherwise he'd have sent it back to the prebuilt company. This card was likely used, or used heavily, or bought for cheap as "parts" in hopes that nwrepair could fix it.
I also repair graphics cards but through RMA although I only deal with ASRock. My coworkers are the ones that deal with MSI and they always say that this is random but very common. Sometimes after finishing a diag test with no issues, we proceed to do 3d benchmarks on windows as final test and the card just dies with the same issue. The people from the main branch in Taiwan always complain about the repair rate of their cards pushing all the blame on my coworkers when in reality many of their cards have the same issue. Another example with similar issue is the 4070 Ti Ventus, which always gets its pads connecting to memory channel A1 lifted from the PCB.
Hi! It is great to watch your videos before we decide to buy a card. Can you make in the future separate playlists for a different tier and manufacturers of cards, so the people can more easily decide what to buy? Thank you for showing general and individual card flaws!
@@anticharlie1 Last couple gens of EVGA cards had some well known issues. No manufacturer is immune. Board Vendor profit margins are notoriously slim and they aren't given enough time to design the products. EVGA quit the industry for a reason.
That's so weird - I'd imagine it won't take much in terms of wrong materials to make that happen. BTW - if you don't know, your SIGLENT oscilloscope has a VNC and Web interface for video capturing :) Saves you from positioning the camera in front of it!
I've sent back my msi 4090 3 times now, they gave me a new one once and tried to fix it the other, this time they've sent their slim version. Hopefully THIS time I have no problems.
Msi x model can be way better than Asus x or Asus y model can be way better than Msi y , hell sometimes even Galax, Powercolor, Inno3d, Palit etc makes way better models than those two for way cheaper or with way better cost/performance efficency. You obviously gotta review this model by model and not by brand. Msi is usually good brand , i don't want to go to the details but i had Msi components that i used for 11 ,7 and 5 years . I stopped using them because they were too old not that they weren't working so obviously "never work for too long" is wrong but does Msi have shit models ? absolutely but just like any other brand.
I think what happened is that the prebulit system was fabricated and sent to the distribution company, and this is where it got damaged in shipping. Torn pads and maybe cracked pads. The cracked pads oxidized while at the distribution warehouse. They eventually shipped it to the buyer.
How did this card come to you after it was DOA in a prebuilt ? The owner should have contacted the people who built the system rather than send it to you on his own dime and take the risk of not being able to return it. Even if he could not return it to the prebuilt system builder he could always have gone back to the OEM for an RMA. The story that you were given makes no sense and this is a £1600 card.
The story makes complete sense, you just add in the rest with critical thinking skills. He bought a prebuilt, it didn't work, he likely called the company and they were like, "dang bro that sucks man.... How about we cut you some cash back and forgot about all this mess?" Homie took the money and then sent it in for repair hoping it could be fixed.
cut you some cash back? no you clearly dont know how this works, you dont get "some cash back" you get the full refund or the company risk legal actions, most likely happens is the thing that the guy above us said, probably the company was blaming the customer but the payment platform (paypal, amazonpay, etc) sided with the customer and issued a full refund, so now the conflict is between the assembler and the payment platform.
@@ravell2854 I worked in the prebuilt industry, if you can make a deal you make a deal, if you can't you ask them to send it back and full refund. If he still had the gpu they likely refunded the gpu cost and moved along without worrying about it and yelled at carl for shipping broken crap.
It obviously had guarantee, right? Even as a prebuilt, I'd just contact MSI directly. My heart slipped a little when I saw this video as my brother bought that exact card a few weeks ago but luckily it works fine.
I believe in msi, know their products for years and these errors are very unlikely. Most of the times their products are great, I have a 1060 gaming x which is still in use and works, and now my rig has a meg Z790 Ace and a Suprim X 4090. No other brand (except Asus) can compete with msi in quality. Anybody who wants a pc I tell use asus and msi, if they can choose. (mobo and gpu). Just make sure it is supported with a stand on the farthest end so the PCB doesn't crack, other than that watch out for the memory temperatures and you will be a happy costumer.
@@MrKobold22 There was EVGA, and AMD has Sapphire. Both were staples in quality and their RMA procedures. MSI is shady af, Gigabyte is just pure shit. I'll gladly buy Asus anytime, at least their RMA works fine if shit goes down. Just got my 3080 12Gb fixed a month ago, the warranty isn't even on my name lol.
Wanted to mention EVGA but its not widely available everywhere, and since the 30 series one cannot make a full evga build. and yeah msi is truly in the grey area thats why I consider them "equals" for both of them pulls shady tactics from time to time. gamersnexus covered a serious topic about asus months ago, and before that msi also showed their teeth, so i wonder what comes next... @@sL1NK
@@sL1NK that's funny. I've sent a few motherboards back to Asus and they can never recreate the problem, even when I give them detailed instructions on how to recreate an issue. What they usually do is send the board back unfixed, then I RMA the board again, and then they replace it with something that develops an issue a couple years later. This process typically takes 6 to 8 weeks.
you shouldn't assume or blame, that this issue was because the MSI -all gpus are checked before they left the factory, and you know it. -you and the customer both, don't know, how many hands touched that gpu, and in what conditions it was storaged, and who build the rig, before it arrived to the customer. ... so I dissagre with your advice on the yt video minature to avoid it. I recommend MSI's 4090s, the only one with guiet coils (no coil whine during heavy load)
Man, the QC problems for some companies with the 4090 are astonishing. Gigabyte and Asus had the PCB problems, everyone had problems with the 12-pin. And now this. I thought long about what manufacturer I choose for my 4090 and went to buy a Gainward. Very happy with it so far, apart from some whining coils here and there.
I dont think im yet to see a model that hasnt had at least a few bad cards... all apart from maybe the strix and even they probably have had melted power connections or something
MSI aren't the only ones to blame. nV is forcing the vendors out of the market by selling the cores at close to MSRP price to them while at the same time providing a competitively priced and well built alternative in FE cards. This cuts into vendor profits and they have to make that up somewhere (in our case, manufacturing). nV is forcing a monopoly and it needs to stop.
The only way i can see this graphics card slipping into an official prebuilt system is if the company had a line of motherboard and cpus all preinstalled with an os and when someone orders they just grab all the predownloaded mobos and slap together all the required parts for their prebuilt systems. Other than that how would a no picture gpu even get put out
I'm surprised that replacement/repair of this card wasn't covered under warranty, seeing as it's a pre-built. Nonetheless, terrible QC from the factory, that's appalling
Not sure why the buyer just didn't sent it back to RMA right away if it was D.O.A? Or instore credit? These 4090s goes for at least 2800k CAD with tax here in Canada. Even if this was lets say 2 years later, which it isn't for the 40series, there is still the manufacture warranty.
When MSI was caught up in the GPU scalping few years back, I put my foot down to never, never purchase any of their products. They are a scum-company and I will not support them.
@@utleyDon't forget about Gigabyte and their exploding power supplies that they and Newegg knowingly tried to dump on customers desperate for a GPU two years ago. Honestly, if you were to boycott every company that's done something bad, you wouldn't even be able to build a PC at all, let alone buy the parts online.
I still think MSI is sort of the... how do i put it, potentially almost least bad of the terrible sharks in the computer PCB business, because they're all bad. With GPUs you at least have options such as Palit group and Zotac. The one company i nowadays completely refuse to deal with is Gigabyte, for a long long list of reasons. Their warranty service is just baffling, and i have seen their handiwork in warranty "repair". And there were strong reasons to like them about a decade ago!
this card (and the one with the bug) might be from an obscure factory leak and might never ment for solding to customers because of the issues. I can't believe the card passed any qc test at all !?
WTF. A question: Why would somebody send a 1500 Dollar, new GPU to you, instead of using its warranty? Or do the loose screws mean, that they already broke the seal(and preserved it somehow?), because they have made a damage not covered by the warranty? I am generally curious, because I broke my warranry of my RX 6800 intentionally, as I had no other choice. My beer flowed down from my table into the mesh of my PC , what was fortunately not running, and I could rinse the PCI slot, motherboard and GPU with 96% alcohol. It is working well since.
Was this a new system? You said dead on arrival so I believe so. In that case, the only question I have is why the owner sent it to you rather than make the prebuild company take it back and ship him a working computer. That's exactly the reason for buying prebuilt - you pay them a premium so that any problems are not your problems.
Because the prebuilt company is some guy's small business and they tried to blame the customer and refused to take care of it? Happens every day. And usually the sales platform or payment processor sides with the customer, who gets a full refund and gets to keep the junk.
I'm a little worried this is what happened to a MSI 4090 I recently brought. I plugged it in, fans went 100% and then stopped and I get no display from the card. it lights up showing its recieving power but in the bios, it isn't detected in any of my PCIE lanes. It was brought second hand so someone already new the card was borked and the factory seal on the screw was already broken when I got it. so again someone has tried looking at it as its broken. is crap that it was even able to get onto Ebuyers, so it means someone sold it second hand and no one tested it, to see if it actually work. now im stuck with a broken 4090 and waiting to return it....
My 4090 trio gaming x card failed over Christmas only 6 months old finally getting a replacement tomorrow after low stock mine just lost video output no signal in any of the ports
This is very suss. Why didnt the customer return the DOA card to either the manufacturer or the company that made the prebuilt? I was considering picking up this exact model of GPU, as its one of thr 'smaller' AIB 4090s. Im not so sure about it now 😂
Prebuild system builder gave him a refund and probably didn't want the card back. A lot of companies do that these days, they don't want the hassle of paying return shipping and dealing with returns. Sometimes I've asked for a refund for something I bought at Amazon that died, and they just went ahead and shipped a new item, and told me to keep or toss the broken one. Worked for me.
looked like pcb defective during trace pressing the way they were broken pads with no hairs, or nothing attached shows me factory defect. so the glue they use to adhesive the traces and layers failed and moved to other layers to be evaporated into the solder during chip press.
Why would the owner of this gpu not just return the prebuilt and get a free refund/replacement and instead sent it to you to be charged extra and or wait longer?
if this was a prebuilt, it's impossible to be past warranty, so why did he send the card to u instead the company he bought his comp at, to get a replacement? 😮
my mum,who passed away,was working in pcb company,Nikola Tesla. She once said they had like 10% of pcb who failed inspection but could still be operating verry well but from factory point they're been discarded. Then,Erricson bought the company and closed this section of the factory and start to import pcb's from China,which were more cheap even w 25% of bad pcb's. My friend has an Siemens s25 phone,some ancient folks will remember this piece of engineering,he dropped that phone from 17 feet and still worked as new..And from then,pcb's will never be as resiliant as they used to be,and when tech nowadays stops working suddenly,you are in the know,right..lol My hats off for you,mate..you have the knowledge of entire factory..20gigs?..50gigs💪
Only recently stumbled across this channel and am mesmerized by every single video. I'm working backward slowly but keep asking myself what all of these processes are. He squirts some mysterious fluid along the perimeter of the core, then it bubbles and the core just pops off....some other elixir and various chips can be moved about with ease...Move over Copperfield! Grand Canyon's got nothing on this!
@@Jonathan900S It was DOA, that means warranty does apply, i think the owner got the refund from payment platform and not from the seller, thus why he gave the card away like that.
Thanks for your video. I had one of these cards for 7 months and it failed on me twice. Has taken weeks for MSI Australia to confirm it was a failure, and they dont care.
My MSI 4090 Suprim died recently, no indication whatsoever, no burned pins, no abuse from my side, good PSU, no bending or excessive force used anywhere. I wonder if it had the same problem.
i have a gaming trio 6950xt, hopefully its not garbage as well. But considering xidax has replaced 3 of them in a year, I do not have that much confidence
When they make the PCB's, why don't they coat the PCB with some kind of cheap coating that can be washed off with some alcohol quickly right before the board is ready to be sent thru the robot machine that splatters the components onto the board and then thru the wave solder machine. That way there will be no chance for oxidation, something like how brake rotors are coated with cosmoline before shipping, and you spray them off with brakeclean at time of install. Seems like this is a very preventable issue and could be fixed for very little cost.
My first MSi 4090 had a fault with the heat pads. thermal switch. Loaded on low power such as browsing or watching videos. i returned to supplier and got a new one which has been fine.
This is a beast of a card. Been using it for the last several months. That said I'm not going to take it apart and replaced or change the pads. Dont want to mess with the warranty.
I've been binge wathing your videos and it is so well done 👍 I'm an hardware and electronics enthusiast and the level of details you provide is simply amazing. With an added humor, it is just great 😆 In this video, the bit where you tape the core and call it "as good as from the MSI's factory" really cracked me up. Coming to the content, I'm really disappointed with the QC of MSI. I was about to get a MSI GT Titan Laptop, but I guess I'll look for others. Thanks.
Couldn't-of the balls just crack/detach from shipping/shock, and moisture in the air oxidised/tarnished the pads. It would explain why 100 pads got ripped off.
Really late as this was 9 months ago. I have the gaming x trio for, I think, year and a half? Right When they came out. Almost RMAed it because I kept getting crashes. Course my issue was the XMP and ram. last 4 months, things are running awesome, and I have a second 4090 gaming x trio on the way for another build (liquid cooled).
How come nobody noticed this card was dead even before it was shipped in that prebuilt? It probably have passed through alot of hands before being delivered.
So customer bought a Pre-built system, the GPU never powered on.... and he had no warranty claim on a $1600+ GPU? Don't get me wrong, Kudos for the donor card, but that's a lot of money to throw away on a brand new card, even if you're rolling in it.
in my case I have a simple MSI Ventus 3X RTX 3070 and a B550M Pro-VDH WiFi board since early 2021. No issues so far approaching their 3rd birthday in a few months. Hopefully MSI didn't worsen since then
Thinking on how it happened, most likely they had the boards ready and waiting for a GPU core in a warehouse somewhere while Nvidia was busy making 10 times more money selling those AD102 chips on server cards.
Have learned a hard lesson from MSI cash back scam (bought mb and cpu within promotion time slot but msi refuse to cash back), will definitely avoid this brand
I got the same GPU model it satrted to crash in every game. I RMA it to MSI and its been repaired, now the gpu is on the way to me. will test it when it arrive.
