Navigating Intertribal Relationships | With Dez & Magunga 

I’m a luo na sijawai sikia izi story za Julia aki 😭😭😭😭Enyewe we needed this conversations to remove these tribal myths

There is a political notion that kenyans believe that economically luo are really struggling and kikuyus are really thriving The irony is i have interracted with well to do luo's who believe they are oppressed and poor kikuyus who think they are superior. 😅 the power of politics !!! Part 2 definitely enjoyed the conversation

😂😂😂 Julia's vulnerability makes you wanna open up immediately! Appreciate this episode as it demystifies some cultural myths ❤

We definitely need a part two! The conversation felt like it was just hitting its stride when it ended. Let's explore the other side of the coin: people who wouldn't consider marrying within their own tribe. This could be due to cultural practices that restrict women's roles and perpetuate unfair treatment under the guise of tradition.

We really need a part two. I really love Dez, He should be back again.

The Kenyan urge to say 'Wacha alie hio kitu imtoke'😂 great episode!

Love the discussion so far! To Sharon’s point on dating Kikuyu’s in the UK, I’ve been living in the UK for nearly 8 years now and 90% of the Kenyans I run into, have been Kikuyu. 😂 To the extent that when I meet Kenyans in the UK, my first assumption is that they are probably Kikuyus. I think Dez’s statistics point on Kikuyus being the majority in Nairobi, also stands in the UK.

Haha Magunga. Hitting the nail on the head. Love the conversation. Dez has a good voice, Magunga speaks realistically & Jules looks lovely❤❤.

Dare to discuss the topics we shy from as a society 🎉❤

Some 👍 pkease for those who want a part 2

So glad to see you guys covering this topic. This is really important, and I loved that you were able to clear up some dodgy myths and stereotypes. I feel that there was room for a more nuanced discussion on why people end up gravitating towards their own, or 'allied' ethnic groups. This would have possibly led to a more honest discussion on tribalism beyond 'oh I only notice tribalism during elections'. First of all, ethnicity in Kenya, (like in any other society), intersects with socioeconomic status, political power, religion and other demographic factors. For example, if you think about Kikuyu's proximity to the colonial administration, there were certain benefits that have to be honestly evaluated. One mentioned was the fact that Nairobi is in Central Province. Post independence these benefits culminated in greater access to the state apparatus and therefore greater political and economic power. It also offered more opportunities to pursue education and professional development ( both at home and abroad). It is precisely because of this privilege that the middle, upper-middle and upper classes in Kenya are predominantly Kikuyu - (or Luo or Kalenjin, not picking on anyone just using this example) . And being that we tend to date people within our social circles - who we went to school with, church with, whose parents are friends with ours etc - it makes sense that Sharon for example has 'inadvertently' only dated Kikuyus. If we add tribalism and human nature (we stick to the familiar and create in-groups and outgroups) this means we can end up 'unconsciously unaware' of how homogenous our social circles are. As someone who has grown up as a product of an intertribal union (not Kikuyu or Luo), this was not lost on me as a grew up. It is very easy to see how these structures operate when most of your classmates are from the big 3 (Kikuyu, Luo, Kalenjin) and you are not. These demographic patterns are not coincidental, but a reflection of the inequities created during colonialism and which were entrenched in the post-independence era.

We definitely need a part 2🎉. This is the first time I'm listening to such an important and sensitive matter being discussed in such a beautiful and open way. Thank you Jules and Sharon❤❤

Aki Dez anaongea vizuri. Gatho!

Yes we need a part two, the Magunga left us in suspense.

Such conversations are what we need in podcasts, I love it.

Totally need a part 2 This was open and wholesome

So happy to see Dez in action and in the flesh.. Good stuff!

I hope they'll be a part 2...loved this conversation...we need more of them

It is always wonderful listening to another rich impactful conversation. Can't wait for the next .

Would be great to have this conversation with a Maasai among the panelists.They are the most culturally intact community and would have totally different dimensions to this

WOW! I did that Sharon test “tell me your luo friend” and indeed I can off the top of my head name luo, kikuyu, kamba, kalenjin (grew up in Eld) and obviously luhya (that’s what I am) and a little bit even miji kenda friends picked up over the years at like school and work and church. So interesting that it’s possible that most of someone’s friends can be people from their tribe without that person intentionally filtering out the rest of the tribes…

Dez his voice and temperament 🔥🔥🔥🔥🤌🏾🤌🏾🤌🏾

This was a very interesting conversation. Would really love to hear a part 2. I’m a non- Kenyan African who married a Kikuyu man after meeting overseas. Met a lot of Kenyans since we started dating and was really surprised at how much tribes/ tribalism plays a role in every day life. Would love to hear more.

Such a deep conversation. I wished it was longer.

I love this conversation, really eye opening.

I cry too when I'm angry 😊. It's not an emotion I express well.

Heeeeeey loved loved thisssss😍

Informative session, looking forward to part II

Magunga is soo cool and straight to the point. Ni ukweli thats the stereotype of what we are told about Kikuyus.

Wueh i feel like this episode was made squarely for me. What i faced n still facing is designer, n the devil is a liar.... he manages to give you episodes that make such things seem reality especially during conflict in the rship. Ghai mi i kent mazee

PART TWOOOOOO PLEASE

Sharon was left hanging when she asked about consent... I was waiting for that to be clarified, because its one of the things we grew up hearing. part 2 please, because the assumption that if a particular tribe is in power the whole tribe gets an untapped access to wealth and money straight from statehouse still puzzles me. As only those in the actual appointed posts benefit as we are witnessing with the floods, taxes, poor roads, high cost of living etc

I agree with Sharon,tribalism isn't something that comes in by choice you just find yourself naturally relating and been attracted to a specific tribe , because that's home ,you understand each other because you basically have the same cultural background. It's different for Dez and he can't quite agree with Sharon because for him growing up he grew in a diversified home so for him there existed no tribal lines

I loved the episode. I think us mixed tribal babies, we are more open minded because we have two sides, so tribal issues are not something we look at in friendships and relationships because of how we were raised.

Spot on Dez.

Great episode!

48:29 THAT PART!!! I love Dez's outro🔥👌🏾.

so good!

I feel like this conversation isn't over 😅can we have a part two please?

Love this topic.

I wish it were longer🤩🤩🔥🔥

Finally we get to see Dez 👏🏾😍 Such an interesting & important episode 🤗

Part 2 this is so helpful as someone in a long term relationship with a luo am a kamba😂

Interesting . I am watching from Namibia 🇳🇦 ❤❤

we definitely nee part two

I loved loved loved this episode ❤

I'm loving the episode so far but lemme do a fact check: GEMA is Gikuyu, Embu, Meru Association (GEMA). This is such an amazing conversation we should continue having, especially for us to normalize these conversations and not just having them during elections. Please do a Part 2 with Dez and Magunga and maybe make this an ongoing conversations

Born and raised in Umoja here. From a Luyo dad and Kikuyu mum. Ethnicity is just one part of your identity, tuko na mingi (age, sex, race, wealth, occupation, nationality, character, income) .in high school I saw people from across ethnic groups and races. midway through uni I decided that anytime I'm single, I'll interact with everyone who I vibe with but I only get to know a lady more if they're from luo/luhya nyanza (I'm from Butere). I noticed that relationships where the lady is from the region I'm from are more deep, family to family interactions flow better. ikiwa ivi pia we're able to relate in terms of region specific challenges, family challenges, etc. Si ati disagreements aren't there or that we will be a good match. kumbuka if you're born and raised in a multicultural place like Nairobi, when things get serious with someone, you'll want to be there for each other, travel to each other's ancestral places, relocate from time to time. It's easier knowing that you're optimistic going where she's from and she's optimistic going where you're from. basically agree with Esther from story ya Jules, ethnic differences make things harder na kaa si ivo, wasee wengi wako na perception that things will be harder mkifanya inter ethnic union boundaries lazima whether you're going interethnic or intraethnic

I even had to do the visual episode today... I've always dated within my tribe only recently have I branched out and I can't help but do it from a point of impending doom. Like will this work, will I be accepted. Is it even serious, are we just passing time waiting for the 'ideal' partner. I remember being younger and thinking I'd never date outside my tribe cause I'd feel left out of and targeted in communication. Especially from a lady's POV the acceptance from your partners side seems to carry heavy weight. Can't wait to hear if it's the same for men. It's really alot we are glad someone is talking about it.

Please do part 2

Part 2...please Can we also have conversations around colourism next

Coming late to this. I also grew up in Nai & have countable Kikuyu friends. Because I surrounded myself from Primary school with other tribes so yes you should be intentional in bringing diversity as it also helps you extend cultural knowledge & also helps build your understanding of your own culture

Dez has a fine voice. will there be a part 2?

I agree with Dez

Ok just starting watching but can we please hear it for the magungo’s sequin moment?! Love sequins on a man! Yes!

Food for thought- there are podcasts covering Emotional Intelligence that can help in self -management and being self-aware, especially in professional settings, and when things go south in our daily lives. Follow the EI podcast by Angela Mwihaki, and so many insightful conversations.

On Dez point of a child leaning more to the mom's tribe and not the dad in an intertribal marriage, we need to verify that. Most people identify with the Dad's side, you actually end up to the Dad's village, and so forth. As for the marriage, I agree that when they wed it will be at the lady's church, but once they marry, depending on the guy's faith, mostly the family moves to the dad's church.

Esther was thoroughly lied to or prejudiced.....

I am listening to this and all the stereotypes about kikuyu are similar for banyankore/bahima in Uganda.😅 So hilarious. 😆

As a south African ,us Bapedi and Zulu dont get along on paper 😂😂but in real life there is a huge percentage of Marriages .

9:18 - It really is related today; right there with you, Sharon. Is this really strength or are we leaving room for further narcissistic abuse? If, by any chance Esther is reading, the gents are right. We’re wired to provide and protect. Can’t do both at the same time all the time and yes, cultures must be respected, but it is also true that ‘manners maketh man.’

Not stupidity and biases, facts

As a kikuyu babe dating and almost getting married to a luo man, the journey has been easy-going. Both our parents are open-minded and trust our decision to do life together. One of the major family elements I noticed was that of communism as simple as eating together like we cook for 20 people when we go to their shags. All in all, I've come to appreciate the differences, and we've set boundaries both ways. Ps:we watched the conversation with him he thinks that the guy didnt like Esther as some of the things were a lie.

Aaah, Esther and Jonathan just didn't enforce boundaries in their union. Also, I don't see any cultural connotation to this brother story. She didn't share the actual cause of this disfunctionality in their marriage.

In Uganda we take after our father’s tribe

The A in GEMA stands for Ambeere

Obviously Dez upbringing is not the same as those born and raised in Kikuyu land mashaba

First things forward, ive been raised not tribal. For me every one is equal the difference is a spectrum of colors which for me was beautiful. Long story short, Im still healing from the trauma of dating a keiyo for over 3 years. Guy impregnated fellow tribe and dumped me like hot charcoal. From experience, the situation has conditioned me to my tribe or no relationship at all.

1:04:30 😅

I am dating this guy that I really love but I know we won't get married because his from a different tribe and on top of that he is a Muslim and I am Christian, 😭💔

Dez ameifungua kidogo, I've been thinking about this. Take away Western style democracy, sijui majority votes get President etc then the intensity of ethnic rivalries isn't the same. I don't think the presidential system is working for Kenya.

Indeed the closer to the mountain you are geneologocally likely some amharic mix in there.

Nairobi was not Maasai land, only. It was Gikuyu, Kamba, and Maasai land. In fact, if we look at colonial documents, the Brits recorded land transfers from Gikuyus to themselves when 'buying up' Nairobi. A lot of those land titles of what came to be Nairobi very early on had a lot of Gikuyu names. Its just cliche to say Nairobi is Maasais land, but its complicated.

That heavy cushite and nilote blood among kikuyus made me trace my genes on that side and wueh! This tribe thing is largely a foreign construct.

Inter tribal dating is not a major problem like it used to be. Especially with the larger tribes, majority of Millenials & Gen Z don't care about tribe. Most care about chemistry & common ground. Tribal worship has been one of the ugliest vices in Kenyan history, especially politically. Very glad to witness Kenyans disassociating with these tribal nonsense.

On pseudo accounts; it is an interesting topic for me, because I created this email I use here with a generic name so that I could hide my real identity. I work for an intergovernmental organisation, and what I write and say could be used against me in my job or derail my future opportunities, since the job requires diplomacy at all times, in and out of work. However, I am against pseudo accounts for trolling creators and other users.

I thought GEMA was Gikuyu, Embu, Meru Association (GEMA) haiya nimeenda basi😂

Thats a culture every where in Uganda you have to sleep in the same room with the dead person

kamba is not a gema member ... GEMA is primarily mt kenya people ...

I feel like my tribe has a lot of customs... I wouldn't subject anyone outside my tribe to this nonsense tbh

The tribe had nothing to do with this her husband clearly lacked boundaries

Dez's thoughts on mother tongue is flawed. In Kalenjin, you follow the side of your dad so you identify with your dad's side..

Most of what you’re saying isn’t common across the community. This is the family. Those are very outdated cultures.

Esther is one weird lady I swear haha

Can Dez please let people talk ai

I agree with Sharon,tribalism isn't something that comes in by choice you just find yourself naturally relating and been attracted to a specific tribe , because that's home ,you understand each other because you basically have the same cultural background. It's different for Dez and he can't quite agree with Sharon because for him growing up he grew in a diversified home so for him there existed no tribal lines