New Boiler from Heatable - A Paying Customer's Review | Viessmann Vitodens 050-W 

Hi, nice video.... the Discount codes seems expired. Would you be able to provide the new ones? thanks

does it adjust flow temperature as it approaches the desired temperature? I also have tado TRVs which I’m hoping can work alongside that independently

Yeah, that was a known issue from when they switched to rubber hoses. Thankfully they identified the problem and have moved back to copper pipes on the newer boilers.

@@camerongray1515 Ah thats good news, shame they didn't properly acknowledge the issue but at least its reverted back on newer models. I'd definitely replace mine with a new Viessman if I had to though, apart from the hoses it's been fantastic.

Sounds like you have the earlier model WB1C with the rubber flow and return hoses they were actually quite easy to remove and clean and refit they do not actually degrade but just collect the dirt from the system you can tell when you squeeze hoses as you say it feels like it’s full of gravel, As an engineer I can remove clean the hoses and refit them within two hours it should not be an expensive job also the heat exchanger for the hot water can be simply flushed out all pressure washed I haven’t replaced one as of yet

Very true. Their opinion is worth listening to, a good installer doesn't want their name marred by a bad product. Sadly most people get caught up with the marketing guff when they are thinking about getting the job done and then they think the fitter is tyring it on when the recommend something else.

The Nest E does look like a nice product, especially for DIY install where you just want to replace an existing wired programmer on the wall without needing to get into the wiring at the boiler since you can easily leave the heat link on show. For me I'd probably just go for the full on Nest since I actually enjoy fiddling about with the wiring so I'd have the heat link next to the boiler. I'd then be able to reuse the 3 core and earth cable to the hallway to power the nest thermostat.

I considered the wiser system however I didn't really need the individual zone control so it wasn't necessarily worth the extra cost for me, for larger properties it does seem like a good option.

There are a couple of options that would let you use OpenTherm with smart TRVs - It turns out that Tado does seem to support OpenTherm although only on their wired thermostat where you'd need to extend the OpenTherm connection to wherever you want the thermostat to be, the wireless models with a separate receiver doesn't support OpenTherm in the UK. Systems such as Drayton Wiser and Honeywell Evohome also allow the use of smart TRVs with OpenTherm. For me I've been in two minds over it - I'd be interested to see how beneficial smart TRVs actually are from an energy saving perspective. For me I don't have a huge property so all of the rooms are in use - the most benefit I'd really get would be to stop heating the bedroom during the day so that it's cooler in the evenings and I'd need to get much better at keeping internal doors closed. The internal walls also aren't insulated (often there isn't insulation between floors in a house as well) so you're still going to end up losing heat into other rooms throughout the day from this. There will definitely be some energy savings if there's rooms that you never use, but I don't think it would really be enough of a saving to justify the cost for my size of property (although I'm willing to be proven wrong). My thinking for Nest is that with OpenTherm, you need the Thermostat to be good at handling load compensation which Nest is well known for doing whereas with those other systems, they don't have as much of a proven track record with this, especially with the additional complexity of adding in multiple rooms at different temperatures while optimising the flow temperature. The Drayton Wiser system for example was launched with OpenTherm support but this only operated as on/off control until an update in 2019 - I just don't want to risk getting a system where the load compensation is a bit of an afterthought. Although admittedly, since I'd be producing a video of installing whichever system I go for, I suspect Nest would have a more universal appeal than a lesser-known system which is why I'm leaning towards it (although still not set on Nest for sure yet). I've also considered potentially doing something a bit DIY where I have generic smart TRVs in the bedroom and en-suite and simply close and open them on a timer, then just have the nest operate as normal. This would give me 99% of the benefit of going for a full on smart TRV system since realistically my only use case would be not heating the bedroom once I'm out of bed.

@@camerongray1515 Thanks for this - interesting, and understand where you are coming from. My house is a reasonable size and quite tall because it's a terrace, and so I do only really want the bedrooms heated for an hour or so in the morning. However if I do for some reason want to heat them at another time it's great to be able to dial up the temp in any given room and it immediately calls the boiler for heat. I think as you say if you want the load compensation to work well you need to keep the system simple. It is interesting to me that after all this time we don't really have a definitive solution to this. Maybe it's a uniquely British thing, in the US they seem to use more central HVAC plants and there is very little control in each room bar a mechanical vent. I did some calculations when I installed my system and I'm sure it saved gas and money but it's so long ago now any savings I made are now taken for granted! Thanks for the all the videos, will look forward to seeing where you go next

You'd really just need to find the source of the leak to be honest, maybe look at ceilings for any weird staining that could indicate a leak above the ceiling although if the leak is below your ground floor then you're probably going go either need to start lifting floors or get in a specialist leak tracing company. Only other thing I can think of is check all of the connections on your radiator including the bleed valve and the nut on the opposite side from the bleed valve and give them a bit of a tighten - with heating leaks in particular, water can often evaporate from the hot fittings before it falls to the ground so a radiator can be leaking without ever leaving a trace on the floor below it.

At that point I'd probably still be asleep! I've been caught in the shower by delivery drivers more times than I'd like to admit!

A combi will heat hot water on demand so you don't need to set up any sort of schedule for hot water. You can adjust the hot water temperature on the boiler, generally lower temperatures will use less energy so you just need to see how low you can set it while still getting hot enough water from taps and shower and where the shower has enough pressure (if you set it too low your shower may not mix in much cold water and therefore the flow might be reduced). Personally I have my hot water temperature set to 55c. For heating you will set a timer/thermostat and can also change the temperature of the water in the heating system on the boiler. Generally speaking a lower heating water temperature will be more efficient however if you set it too low you may find that rooms either never reach the desired temperature or they take too long to heat up. Again it's just a case of playing with different values and seeing how you find it. 50c is probably a good starting point then adjust as you see fit.

It definitely makes noise and ramps up since it'll initially run the burner at high power to get everything up to temperature quickly before settling down. It it's particularly loud or anything though.

I made a video installing Nest for OpenTherm on mine and found the same issue. With Nest I worked out that setting the Nest to think that it was connected to a System Boiler rather than a Combi worked to disable preheat: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gZcy0sruFfA.html. If you're using a different type of control then you'd need to look into your control settings to see if you can do similar. Equally, I'm not sure how much gas the preheat necessarily uses so it may also be worth setting up the ViCare app and look at the gas consumption for a day when you didn't use any hot water or heating to see how much the preheat actually uses - I keep meaning to re-enable preheat while I go away for a couple of days to check this out of curiosity.

They're from the MK Dimensions line and aren't too outrageously priced when compared to things like their Edge and Aspect line which are extortionate! It's a slightly weird system to order as they come in two parts - you order the "functional module" in either black or white which is the actual socket/switch then you order the front plate separately in the finish you want. The catalogue here details all of the products and their respective part numbers: buildings.honeywell.com/content/dam/hbtbt/en/documents/downloads/MKDimensions_Brochure_UKMK432-0721-EN_FINAL.pdf. You'll notice the part numbers for the metal front plates have a asterisk on the end, you either replace with with "B" or "W" depending on if you want the trim to be black or white, you'd usually match this to the colour of functional module that you chose.

@@camerongray1515 awesome, will look into it. thanks so much for the info. I'll be moving from oil to gas house soon so was interested in this video.. Also I have a tado I'd be taking with me - I checked if my UK tado would work with opentherm boiler but looks like I need an EU extension box, the UK one I have wont have the bus connectors and only supports legacy relay on/off :( Do really like tado system so will prob hunt out the right ext box.

Yeah, the Tado OpenTherm thing is really annoying. I think it's because some EU countries (Netherlands I think) require OpenTherm now. Even more infuriatingly, companies like Valiant don't offer OpenTherm boilers and instead use their proprietary eBUS protocol. Except they do sell a module to provide OpenTherm, but only in the Netherlands! They apparently claim that using this module in a UK boiler will invalidate the warranty. This is the exact reason I immediately ruled out any Valiant boilers from my shortlist.

@@camerongray1515 The Wireless Receiver box I fitted in my UK flat a couple of years back does have OpenTherm terminals and the tado "Manual for Professional Installers - For the Starter Kit - Wireless Smart Thermostat V3+" shows how to hook it up and configure it in the initial setup. I am using the digital bus to connect to my Worcester Bosh Greenstar 30CDi, but that connects to the same two "digital bus" terminals in the Wireless Receiver box - it's just a config setting in tado setup to select OT or one of the various digital bus standard used by the boiler manufacturers. I'm very pleased with tado, using TRVs and a few wireless thermostats in the rooms, along with the schedules in the app provides full zonal control and remote (including out of home) control without any special plumbing or wiring.

Interesting, I think previously Tado did offer OpenTherm on their Expansion box and I think their wired thermostat may support it but their current wireless option doesn't unfortunately. Tado does look like a good option but I'm still figuring things out around it, I'm not a huge fan of the fact that they don't really offer any official API documentation.

Haha, unfortunately I'm probably going to need to go for an off the shelf product, likely something like a Nest. While I'd love to have something totally locally hosted, I'd have to compromise on the boiler modulation logic that products like Nest will provide. I'd still integrate it with Node-RED although it'll mostly just be for automated home/away type stuff.

Interesting, I'm ground floor so access wasn't an issue. I'm not an expert, but it looks like Baxi (and maybe Worcester Bosch) offer special flue kits that can be installed and sealed correctly purely from inside which is why I imagine installers are specifically offering those. Looks like Viessmann don't offer such a flue so they'd need access externally to fit and seal it.

Yeah, it seems ridiculously common, think mine is the only boiler I've actually seen connected up for OpenTherm in person which is absolutely ridiculous! As far as I'm aware, the BoilerPlus regulations that I mentioned don't apply in Scotland so it may be a lack of education/reluctance to try new things up here but it's infuriating given the clear benefits of OpenTherm. I've noticed huge benefits from it - my flat heats up super quickly but once it's at temperature I barely notice when the boiler turns on to top up the heat, whereas previously I could easily notice the temperature fluctuations throughout the day.

@@camerongray1515 Totally agree there. The one thing I would say about the experience though was that there was no ego and a genuine response to learn. Myself and the installer looked through the installation manual and worked through it and got it to work. I could very well have imagined it going the other way where there would have been a refusal try another way to work through it and we would have both come away unhappy as I would not have accepted the job that was completed.

That's good, I was pleasantly surprised with my engineer as well - when he walked into me being nosey looking at what he was doing while he'd been out at the van he was happy to show me around and talk through what he was doin. He was also no way offended by me asking about OpenTherm and when I asked him if he could fit the flex for OpenTherm so that I could replace the thermostat later he was happy to do it but also had no issue with the idea of me taking the front off the boiler to do it myself (even showing me how to do it). A far cry from what I expected which would have been "I'm the mighty gas engineer, you lowly member of the public shouldn't even look at the boiler, let alone change a thermostat yourself"

@@camerongray1515 Great, in the weeds on this conversation but to add to your video there was no "connector" on my 100 boiler on the switched contacts. To wire for OpenTherm we just had to connect directly to the OpenTherm contacts on the boiler to the Nest, no other changes were made. The only thing I have found with my Nest (I previously had a 2nd gen Nest) is that the app now has an additional circle for hot water control. Where as the thermostat control changes to orange when the heating goes on (and the boiler fires) the hot water control is always showing as orange and on. I just need to get used to it as I think it indicates the temperature and not that the boiler is always firing and heating water. I don't know if you see the same on yours?

It's connected to Vicare if that's what you mean but this was something I set up myself so it's not connected to anything by the installer. I just have this so that I can pull stats from the boiler such as the gas consumption into my own database using Home Assistant.

I looked into it but could never quite get my head around it. I ended up just going for a Nest connected up over OpenTherm to give modulating load compensation control. I also feel this potentially fits my needs better than weather compensation as my requirements for heating are often quite sporadic - I am away from home quite a lot of the time. So with load compensation I can heat the flat up quickly if it's really cold after being away for some time with the heating off but then it can modulate the boiler down to a lower level when the rooms are close to the set temperature.

Home Assistant supports vitodens boilers. It's incredible the detail you get from this unit.

I just tried the HomeAssistant integration and I couldn't really see much information, in particular related to the gas consumption. That said, I never seem to be able to get my head around HomeAssistant - it just doesn't seem to match the way my brain works. I'll maybe give it a go again or alternatively I should be able to build something in Node-RED as the API seems pretty clearly documented. As for a new thermostat, I don't know if I'll necessarily be able to go fully locally hosted since most decent OpenTherm options are cloud based and while I could build something there's no way I'd be able to do proper load compensation to the same level as a proper heating controls company. I suspect I'll end up with something cloud based but then I'd at least have a couple of API calls to do simple things like turn the heating on/off from within Node-RED and maybe to control temperatures.

@@camerongray1515 Was it the ViCare integration you tried? Must have been, it's the only one! I think from memory I had a bit of a mare getting this to work and needed API Keys, authentication etc. It works well now, and can fully visualise when it's modulating, etc. Probably too much data tbh I have the E3_Vitodens_100_BHC_0421 Ref Gas consumption, there are many sensors monitoring heating and hot water consumption, current day/month/year etc (sensor.vicare_hot_water_gas_consumption_current_day, sensor.vicare_hot_water_gas_consumption_last_seven_days) Agree, 'home assistant' is a nightmare from a usability perspective - it's a massive learning curve. Temperature / Heating controls are however easy,.. Node-Red is a godsend for this!

Been able to get it working now, my home assistant instance was out of date and for some reason this meant it was only showing a couple of entities from the vicare integration, after updating it it's now showing everything including the consumption data - going to be interesting to play about with this now!

Ouch! Good on Nest for presumably designing the heat link to be able to deal with such idiocy! This is why I tend to always do things myself - I find it too hard to trust contractors not to do things like this, I find it crazy that DIYers are often more up to date with modern standards than people who should be experts in it.

@@camerongray1515 I could not agree more Cameron. When it became clear that he had no experience with OT I politely suggested that "Google is his friend" so he could look it up on his phone, but nope! Could not be bothered. Shocking!! Most annoying. Also, heating engineer had no idea what Boiler Plus was, though to be fair, this new standard will be required for compliance only in England, A date has not yet been set to Bring Boiler Plus standard to Scotland

@@camerongray1515 Oh, and I'm not 100% sure, but I think the Electrician connected the two OT wires from the heat link into the swithiched live inputs for CH and DHW, so no 240v was passed back to the Nest. I think that would have blown the Nest to bits. I've been inside my Nest Heatlink, it does not have protection against idiocy, I just got lucky

That would make a bit more sense if boiler plus isn't a thing in Scotland yet since there's probably no rush to install OpenTherm controls since people tend to never move unless they're basically forced to but I still find it crazy that you can have a job and be totally oblivious to the changing landscape of your industry. I come from a technology background and I'm terrified of getting left behind if I don't keep up to date with things!

@@camerongray1515 Indeed!! My installer is a nice guy from the same well-to-do housing estate as me, but when I mentioned Boiler Plus to him he just said "ah!! regs, not my thing, I let the office deal with all that sort of thing" I mean... WTF! right!!

The Nest discount code originally expired at the start of the month (and I forgot to remove it) - I've just spoken to Heatable and I'm pleased to say that they've extended it "into November" so it should work for you now 🙂

@@camerongray1515 Brilliant! The very nice man on the Heatable live chat allowed me to use your code this afternoon, and the installation is booked for Monday. All a very positive experience so far 😃Time to watch your Nest video now to pick up some usage tips.

Damn I’ve missed the offer now!

It was definitely a lot more convenient than faffing around with local installers. As for Tado, it looks like the Tado wired thermostat might support OpenTherm but it'll require a cable between the boiler and the thermostat, the wireless one doesn't. There are also other options that support OpenTherm but aren't Google, namely Drayton Wiser and Honeywell Evohome

@@camerongray1515 oh thanks! I’m not as good as you with the wiring (I have a PhD in physics and should know! Which makes it all the more annoying. ) so I’d be really stuck without seeing this. Thank you. You’ve saved me a load of faffing about! [I think this is my first comment on your channel I’ve been subscribed for years now, and I’ve always loved the content you put on - thanks!]

It's something I've been considering but more of a "nice to have" rather than something I need urgently - the current board is still serviceable, albeit not super neat. If I was definitely going to be staying here for another 5-10 years then I'd probably do it but I can't really say that for sure. Realistically the boiler would have needed to be changed anyway if I were to sell in the future whereas the CU is unlikely to be an issue. I suppose I just have a general dislike of having to get contractors in to do anything - probably why I put off getting the new boiler for almost 5 years!

That's my thinking around the controls, there's a few different options I've been looking at, some with nice open APIs.etc however as you said, Nest is likely to do very well as a video, my Hive install video still gets really good views over winter! Then with the fact I'm currently wired up for on/off control, I could go into proper detail explaining the difference between OpenTherm and On/Off control and show people how to install it both ways!

I did a lot of thinking after I went the viessman / Nest route. I would now elect for individual room control over a big bang overall solution like nest, using tado smart rad controls. A lot more control, a lot more efficient too

This is still a consideration as individual room control sounds like a good idea in principle although realistically I don't have that big a place so not sure how essential it is. The most I could really do is run the kitchen at a lower temperature and not heat the bedroom during the day, although this would also require me to change my behaviour as I tend to leave internal doors open. I likely wouldn't go for Tado due to the lack of OpenTherm support without importing an EU receiver (although they do mention OpenTherm on the wired thermostat's product page so I'd need to do more research into this). Something like Drayton Wiser could be an option although not sure if it'll be worth the additional cost and likely a less successful video.

Good idea, I've added them in now!

The boiler does support weather compensation so I'd be able to add it by connecting an outdoor temperature sensor. I saw the connections for it when he had the boiler open (Officially need to get someone in to connect it. Although if the front was ever to accidentally fall off the boiler, it wouldn't be too hard to add myself 😉). Only thing I'd maybe need to think about is that the wall that the boiler is next to gets direct sunlight for a lot of the day so I'm not sure if this could cause issues with the reading that the sensor would get.

@@camerongray1515 🤔 If you haven’t got somewhere to shade the sensor, or a north/north-east/north-west wall I’d probably stick with OpenTherm. Having had both though (Nest OpenTherm with an Intergas boiler and weather compensation with an Ideal Logic), I’d probably choose weather compensation as I think the energy savings are higher, but both provide improved comfort and steady temperatures, at least once you get your head round the fact that the radiators are unlikely to be piping hot.

I suppose it depends on the amount of work required, if a new circuit was required for example then they should absolutely get an electrician in, but for something simple then IMO it's something they should be able to do themselves safely, otherwise to do something simple like replace a faulty motorised valve or pump you're going to need both an electrician and a plumber when the actual electrical work involved is basically just swapping over some wires. I'd view it the same as any joinery work being required - for simple stuff like cutting a bit out of a cupboard, then the installer should be able to do it (as they did here) however if the work required a huge amount of work to box a new boiler in or required alterations to a stud wall, I'd expect them to get a joiner in.

@@camerongray1515 But if you were having a new boiler boxed in you would not need an electrician ?

I didn't say that, I said that in the same way that a heating engineer should be able to do basic control wiring, they should be able to do basic joinery work themselves but if more advanced work was required then I'd expect them to get a joiner in. I have no issue with getting specialists in if required or if it is outside of someone's comfort zone, but sometimes I feel like trades silo themselves to ridiculous levels - a friend of mine recently had a plumbing company refuse to fix a leak because they'd have had to cut into a ceiling to access pipework.

It's a "combi" boiler so doesn't store water - it heats it on demand. With this one being a 30kW model it should be more than enough for a powerful shower, I checked mine this morning and while it was feeding a shower at a pretty high flow rate and decent temperature it was only running at round 40% so should be more than enough for a hot shower, even in winter when the water coming into the boiler is cold,

@@camerongray1515 That actually pretty good. Thanks for explaining and giving info.

I'm only providing my experience, I could equally show a tonne of dreadful installs by non-heatable companies, both big and small. Ultimately there is always a risk no matter what company you go for. What I liked here was that heatable review the job so it's not left to the installer to mark their own homework. In my case, the installer (who I equally could have hired as an independent contractor) failed to install the plume management kit which turned out to be required by viessmann's instructions due to the proximity to an internal corner. This was picked up by heatable when they reviewed the job and they sent the installer back to rectify the issue. Had I hired the contractor independently, I'd have been none the wiser about the lack of plume management kit and would probably only have found out if it caused an issue at a future service or warranty claim. Heatable ultimately use independent contractors, they just provide an extra layer of oversight and support on top. And in terms of which is more likely to fail, your claim has a big "citation needed" over it, my logic is that a small company with one person can easily shut down and reopen under a different name to get away from legal action, much harder to do if you're a large company.

I show it at 30:32. The standard programmer they supply (if you don't order an upgraded smart thermostat) is a wireless programmer where a wireless receiver is wired into the boiler (and installed next to it) and the programmer itself is a wireless device that runs on a couple of AA batteries that you can place wherever you want (or mount it on the wall if preferred).

I think it's a bit of both - Heatable pay the installer a fixed fee for the install (around £400 for a combi swap if I remember correctly) but barring a few sundries, heatable provide the parts that end up being required. So sure for the installer, some jobs will be a bit more time consuming but equally others will be relatively quick. From a customer perspective it makes things a lot more predictable. I actually now have a decent example from this job of where heatable came in invaluable. When the installer fitted it, he didn't install a plume kit. After I published this video, Heatable inspected the install photos (or at least I presume this is what happened) and determined that a plume kit should have been installed as the flue was within 300mm of an internal corner which is against Viessmann's instructions. Heatable supplied a plume kit and sent the installer back to fit it. This plume kit costs around £80 but didn't cost me any extra. Additionally, as far as I can tell, it was Heatable that flagged up the lack of plume kit, had I gone directly with the installer, I probably still wouldn't have a compliant install and would be none the wiser until I end up having issues with Viessmann's warranty in the future as it wasn't installed in line with their instructions.

At no point did I say that "a local gas engineer will mess up the installation." Realistically there are benefits to both options. My logic here was that if I were to have had an issue, my contract legally speaking would have been with Heatable who are a much larger company vs a small company where the risk is that they fold and disappear. I was also able to pay on credit card to gain additional protection in the event of any issues. I'm in no doubt that you perform very good installs, but as a consumer it's extremely difficult to differentiate between a company I can trust and one I can't - my parents for example have always used a couple of very well known, long standing, well reviewed local companies yet when I installed a Hive thermostat for them, I came across some of the most dreadful wiring I've seen, amongst all other sorts of bodgery hidden away where my parents wouldn't have seen it. There is also admittedly a level of convenience - I just needed to get the boiler installed after putting it off for years and having very limited time to mess around getting quotes and hoping people would turn up. With this I literally booked it in a couple of days before, and it was all completed within a day. It also turned out that Heatable performed additional checks after the install was completed - at the time of installation the installer didn't install the plume management kit as the flue exit was far enough away from windows/air vents. What the installer hadn't considered was that it was too close to an internal corner to meet the manufacturer's instructions. Heatable spotted this during their final checks/sign-off of the install and sent the installer back to rectify and it and install the plume management kit, had I hired the installer directly, the plume management kit would have likely never been installed.

That's very fair, my fear was that I've seen plenty dreadful work from local installers, for example, my parents had used a reputable local installer to replace some motorised valves. I ended up later installing a new thermostat for them and found the standard of the wiring that had been left behind was shocking (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9L2kKI7e0GE.html ) yet my parents had no idea since it was buried under the floor so they would have happily recommended the company. My logic with going through Heatable was that if there was a problem with the installer, I'd at least have a company to go to about it rather than it just being me against a single installer, Heatable could then send a different installer to rectify issues. It also allowed me to pay by credit card which offers section 75 protection whereas a lot of local installers would want paid by cash/bank transfer which offers no protection.

@@camerongray1515 You used a large company and got bad wiring too. I would tell people to pay attention to the job being done regardless of who's doing it. A lot of local installers accept cards now. Since covid I'd actually say most do now. Your local installer will also use local suppliers and will spend the income locally rather than some company that buys in bulk direct from foreign manufacturers. Heatable have pallets of your boiler direct from Viessmann. They save on buying in equipment then match the prices local guys with more links in the chain charge and pocket the difference.

With the bad wiring, that was absolutely the case, however at least if I wasn't willing to fix it myself, I could have spoken to Heatable about it. In fact, it turned out that the installer hadn't installed the plume management kit which was actually required due to my flue being too close to an internal corner. This was only identified by Heatable when they reviewed the job photos that had been submitted and sent the installer back a couple of days later. Had I gone with the installer themselves then nobody would have picked up on the non-complaint installation until years later at a servicing/inspection/warranty claim where the cost of fixing it would likely have landed on me. As for keeping an eye on the contractor, I agree, however I was working from home at the time so was tied to my desk most of the day so couldn't be there for the whole process. Also since I was wanting to review the process as if I was a normal customer who probably knows nothing about heating systems, I didn't want to get too involved except for the final point when I needed the OpenTherm flex connected. Then when it comes to the supplier, the boiler and all parts came from Plumbase who delivered everything in the morning (and promptly crashed their van into a lamppost...) so while it's not a local independent merchant, it's not coming directly from Heatable. I suspect most local installers would buy from a similar place.

@@camerongray1515 The 300mm rule is gas regs not a manufacturer recommendation and the installer really should have known that so yes in this instance having someone review the job helped. I view the huge installers like amazon. You may get the same product but its at the cost of the local economy. I wouldn't use them if it was avoidable.