PERTURABO CONFRONTS ANGRON! 

Poor angron being captured by a not fighter primarch what humiliation

An ironic statement by Perturabo, because I'm pretty sure "sold your soul out of despair" is where Black Library are going with Perturabo.

and that Lorgar was the one who sold Angron's soul makes it even more awkward cuz Angron just wants to die.

@@chosenofkhorne2951 could be worse he could have lost to the alpha twins

Best part is that Angron hates being remembered as the coward that abandoned his friends and now Perturabo mocked him by saying that he was a coward for selling his soul even tho Lorgar was the one who sold him.

Jaghatai remains the king of burns, but Peter Turbo is not far behind

@@SamueL-td7fb "I heard you do strange things to you warriors" - Jaghatai to Fulgrim

someone needs to do a primarch tierlist based on who roasts harder...

the penismightier

@@SamueL-td7fb Also Ferrus Manus, as Lorgar can attest to

It's not the spite that makes Perty so badass, it's his determination, his strenght of will the creates his physical might

Have you seen Angron swing his axe? Spite ain’t gonna help much

Nosos bringer of infinite diseases then was this the first day with his new axe? Learning how to swing it on perty?

Don't bring chainaxe to artillery fight.

Pure determination is his gift.

wow..... i didnt think about it like that

Sure it's not xcom?

Plot twist, when Perty returns to the tabletop he’ll have an ability to halt a charge with a barrage of fire or can overwatch for free once a turn. If he can stop an angry Angron charge I’m not sure what’s worse than that 😭

Then orks randomly run in and daka daka daka

His conversion to Khorne worship seemed too easy to me. He was busy trying to keep the Legion together, then suddenly he's all in with no obvious cause given.

It's Xll. X is ten I is one II is two

Kharn, the only world shitter who is not a total pushover xD (as far as I know)

@@headlibrarian1996 i think the cause was the frustration like: fuckin bros don't give a shit about the legion, my only good friend was killed by a word bearer molester, sissy brothers and cousins too chilly to even FIGHT FOR THE GOD THEY PLEDGED THEMSELVES TO Like teach'em a lesson sort of thing

I think the death of Argel Tal was one of the key factors that truly pushed Khârn over the edge. Argel Tal was one of Khârns last true remaining battle brothers, someone he could rely on and reminded him of the glory days of the Legions, and with his death at the hands of Erebus, Khârn no longer has that stabilizing factor by his side, instead hes left with Daemon Angron and a Legion dedicated fully to bloodshed and slaughter. Unsurprising that he fell to the worship of Khorne.

Yeah, it would be cool to see a Khorne Warrior deliberately restrain himself for only worthy foes.

That would have made for a nuanced and complex character... Can't have that anymore

Honor would be a priority for proper Khorne worship. The Nails make that much focus and restraint... rather unlikely.

But it doesn't make sense for such enormous being. Khorne would be weak entity if he was only about that Remember - no honor in Chaos.

@@randomcenturion7264 I am working on a Space Marine Force that does just that....I really like the idea of "We know we are doomed; Khorne will have us all eventually! But until then, we will fight off madness and debauchery by being honorable! Whoever takes up arms is an enemy worthy of slaughter, whoever surrenders is not!" That could be a really cool story; but I am way to bad at writing to make that happen :-/

yeah, it doesn't make sense with his character at this point.

The emporer had a tougher mission for perterabo

It is implied that is the case, he “uses” Chaos for his own ends, though using Chaos is kinda an oxymoron because once Chaos you always be their pawn, specially if Tzeentch is there.

@@NueThunderKing Plans within plans. Chaos can let him "use" them as long as they corrupt him, and he is described as an Obliterator, so they have already sorta won that. In the end, all they have to do is put him in his place once it's all over and it's a ultimate Chaos Victory. Besides Perty has always been kinda a massive hypocrite, he probably doesn't even fully realize how much of his speech there applies doubly to himself.

Perturabo appears to be dying because of what Fulgrim did to him. That kind of desperation might make somebody sell their soul for continued life.

I'm guardsmen height and hastily retreating, Ideally into the nearest heavy tank. Then turning around and firing.

@@MrAbawmidabull retreating forward right?

@@MrAbawmidabull not on my watch *sights laspistol with comissarious intent*

Elic scale, they are about 6 stories tall

:::pees:::

And it bit both Angron and Dorn right in the ass.

And Gulliman overreted.

Maybe that's what big E always intended all along, for him to be an overlooked wildcard.

Perturabo was/is probably autistic. 1d4chan.org/wiki/Perturabo Of course; everything is canon; nothing is true.

D nottelling personally, as an Aspie myself, that’s what he feels like? Like, specifically that area of the spectrum. Being actually highly emotional, but shutting down into analytics when faced with stress or hardship? And when not stressed, being unable to communicate those emotions because you don’t understand them the same way as others do? The description on that page of him being faced with the crusade, and giving into the numbers game out of despair, effectively, is something I’ve felt, though happily never in such dire circumstance, just in, like, games and shit.

Narrator: "He did NOT like it. 😐"

@@henryviiifake8244 In TTS Dorn's voice.

@Roger Abernathy Yeah but Iron Hands were always repulsive to me with those augmentations all the time. It's actually super lame... You are an Adeptus Astartes - you're badass as you are and they were behaving like some damn basic humans replacing their limbs for machine ones... 'Flesh is weak'... Whoever loves them should just go to Mechanicum. At least those guys have a reason to do this. I would rather choose traitorous Word Bearers than go for Iron Hands xD

Visor3410 Could be worse... (Glancing at Fabius Bile)

Except GW has the rules where you have to take a chaos mark if you want to be halfassed decent.

@Ahmad Zubair blah blah, the lore is often told from an imperial perspective... think about that.

@Ahmad Zubair Ah, remind me again, why is Tallarn a desert again?

Amen.

Now i wonder how and why did he ascend after the battle of the Iron Cage. Wouldn't mind a short story on that. Also wonder if his ascension actually made him any stronger, except for an ability to regenerate his armor and summon daemonic hookers whenever he wants.

Given his character, would he be so weak to become a demon? Because if Rogal still lives...I can see him wanting to do the deed with his bare hands, his own strength and will. To finally stand over his brother and torment him till Dorn breaks, and prove to himself he was superior. If he did so as a demon, it would rob him of that satisfaction...where all the power and strength he uses, would be as a slave to 4 masters...instead of just one like Angron. Cowed, bowed and a rusted out husk of the being he once was..and his victory, would ring as hollow as the void Chaos Gods left behind in the place of his soul.

Big time ! It makes far more sense that Perturabo didn’t sell his souls to become a daemon , he hates the gods and the daemon primarchs as weak for succumbing to the chaos powers . Hopefully they do that retcon it would be far more interesting

There is a theory that he is not actually a demon primarch, but rather the wound he got from Fulgrim makes him look the way he does

Imagine you have to transport this nopes on your ship for weeks

Trap them in a stasis field using tied-up panicked slaves as bait.

Which makes me think why they are still recognized as some powerful foes. Should be a few stragglers at this rate.

@@oditeomnes they probably get away with this through warp shenanigans. Example; "This group was around during the 30k heresy, took one warp jump and now they are in 40k, so almost no time has passed. Also, another version of them were spat out of the warp and razed a few planets to cinders back in M35. Warp duplicate shenanigans and whatnot. Honestly, I like this idea because the warp is not supposed to make sense. Having a bunch of the same person fight alongside themselves or star systems apart is entertaining to me.

@@gustadood9166 It is possible that this is mostly the downside of many authors at work. We have texts describing recruitment among traitor legions and how incredibly valuable geneseed is to them that is not corrupted to the point of uselessness, yet we also have the procedure of chaos owing souls of the traitors and literally can obliterate them and reform them at will. My theory is that in order to patch up the inconsistencies we have the famous warp shenanigans where time holds no meaning. It allows the Chaos to get away with otherwise inconsistent fluff.

Angel*

Angel*

Obtuse or acute?

@@Bl4ckV3ins reflex

Warhammer Badly yeah, like any other legion would have a field day with them just barely outsmarting the blood thirsty idiots. They seem more like a complement to any other heretic legion rather than a true threat on their own. All save Kharn of course, the dude is as angry as any Khorne daemon, but it manages to contain it enough to form speech or think about a barely competent plan.

"Lorgal"

@Harvey Crewe well said

@17mindgate It's not clear to me that a Chaos God can ascend you without your consent. Yes, Lorgar unleashed the warp upon Angron, but I believe Angron had to consent, however ill-informed he was, to the transformation, otherwise he just would have been killed by it. I'm sure Khorne made his pitch while Angron was held immobile by Lorgar's spell.

@@headlibrarian1996 pretty sure all Khorne had to do while "talking" with Angron while under the spell was say "hey"......."blood for the blood god?" And their is only one obvious answer when asked that question and its one Angron knows all too well

Out of Fear and shame? He destroyed one of loyalist chapters almost entirely in Iron Cage, sacrificed more then 400 geneseeds to chaos gods. It was a gift for Chaos Gods and that allowed him to ascend. He was sucessful and that allowed him to ascend.

Fantastic writing and fantastic reading.

Iron-y. Sorry.

the fucking irony though that he calls Angron a slave for becoming a Daemon Prince and ends up becoming a slave in the same way

yay for gin and Angron

Angron is pretty tragic without out the nails he would have been a legit hero

Then don't read khairns back story , it will break you its so sad and well written, I'm not going to say I cried but as you read you know what he turns into but still I hoped somehow he would not fall but he really had no choice

@Cian Abroad read the master of mankind , he did try even asked for help but the nails replaced parts of his brain and can't be removed. Plus it's a great read

Did anything in particular stand out about Angron? If I were to go Chaos, that's where I'd go - to Khorne, and to Angron.

The best fighters are never the best for they lack anger within and anger without.

@@nathanalexandre9043 Lol wtf does that even mean

kharn begs to differ

That demon thing needs retconing and the iron warriors becoming hertekes instead please gw

@@brandonhughes4571 We just need to wait until GW can bring Malal into 40k as an official Chaos god and give the Iron Warriors over to him. 'The god of he who serves that which he hates', the perfect fit for the Iron Warriors temperament and view of the chaos pantheon.

Agree.

@@warsmithandrath449 he is already canon just not really known

@@brandonhughes4571 i agree peter turbo makes no sense as a daemon prince, every thing ive read about him says he would reject the ruinous powers

Probably the most tragic of all the Traitor Primarchs

I think there's so much more that just pisses me off. The Emperor wasn't just a shit dad he was actively antagonizing. To what is supposed to be his living empathy personified. He treated his most emotionally caring by default children like a tool. Was this to make a point about how the emperor hates his empathy? He was set up for failure and managed to survive by will power and raw strength. He would have his slave friends and family link arms so he could tank all their pain and suffering to let them sleep comfortably. He was then forced to watch those people die while what might as well be literal god sits there and does nothing. And that's why he treats his kids the same way. The world eaters are just a tool and all they want is dads approval. But you can't keep up with dad till you implant the butcher's dreadlocks. And even then he just tolerates them after.

Was honestly shocked to see him actually do Perturabo justice. In the past, his writing on Pert was some of the weakest out of the entire Black Library stable of writers.

Its hard to say. Messing with the Raven Guard's super soldiers could be seen as outright traitorous, but also those soldiers were genetically unstable, so you could see it as them helping the Imperium in a way.

For the Emperor! (Hydra Dominatus)

They don't even know that

they are 100 % traitors. after both primarchs were killed they went insane. most longer carrying the code the old alpha legion carried. in fact in the new alpha legion novel. the pathetic traitors are so out of sorts. that new members literally dont even recognize actual Alpha legion as alpha legion and it's new marines from other legions that actually carry the spirit of the old legion

Alpha legion are traitors. They just didn't decide to side with horus as perturabo did.

Didnt he had like 12 elite bloodthirsters and a horde of lesser daemons along back on armageddon? A bloodthirster alone can fuck up quite a couple of grey knights without much issues... Angron might be a warmachine but a fuckload of cannonfodder can go a long way in distracting your enemy... Not to mention a bloodthirster... If the one on vraks was anything to go by.

Angron is the definition of a berserker; he's a fire and forget type of weapon. Where Mortarion and Perturabo are the anvil of Horus, Angron is the hammer.

@@Darknessblade4me He had a bodyguard of 8 Bloodthirsters if i recall, if its 12 and a ton of meatshields to boot that still makes it nothing compared to the 109 Grey Knights and Space Wolves. A whole Brotherhood but some few survived the carnage and Grey Knights are bad shit insane already, plus they are the only ever astartes gifted with the emperor's own gene pool, while also being warriors of legend and extreme psykers. The First War of Armageddon didn't even end on the planet itself, Khorne laughed for decades later out of the main factor that a certain inquisitor down right murdered people and made war on the Wolves of Fenris. It all essence here, Angron is no joke to have murder thousands of astartes to suddenly be meet by an entire Brotherhood. And that's not even the end of it since cultist tried to summon back into real space during the 13th Black Crusade as well, which i hope GW's new serie add some bits towards rather than just leaving a small bit of reading for the loreseekers. Also to note on the sense of making Bloodthirsters "over the top", narrative wise they were thrown aside like nothing, just like the day to day Avatar of Khaine is nowadays. It is Warhammer through and through though.

@@uncanny_R Beyond any doubt. Angron is the rage monster you want to unleash to wrack serious damage to any foe, be that either small or large Angron will still be able to rip things apart. I mean the dude is a freaking Daemon Primarch, that is like beyond anything we know of Daemon Princes and high ranking Bloodthirsters.

Iam pretty sure angron as mortal would be a more even match against the angel. As demon angron bears more weakness in him as strength and sanguinius knows how to fight demons aka khabanda. Angron is my fav primarch but iam pretty sure sanguinius will beat him now as demon primarch before lorgar stated that only 2 can face the angel with a chance to win...Mortal Angron and warmaster horus.

Gw might retcon it later books

@@mobiusZero2 they better and have the iron warriors become herteke marines instead

@Deathcoldan correct brother we should virus bomb their headquarters from orbit

Perturabo did it under his own terms, becoming a prince undivided than choosing a master.

@@Damienx247 that just makes all the gods his master

Hello

@@thespanishinquisition1343 damn, I was NOT expecting you

@@user-cq1cw8xz7f NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION

@GreatChickenGod The nails and the Emperor’s own failure ensured Angron’s fate.

Agreed. Plus the Emperor's overall treatment towards Angron is just straight up crappy. No attempt at saving his gladiator brothers & sisters, barely any hint of trying to deal with the Butcher's nails, no attempt at being a father figure as compared to the other Primarchs.

The Emperor giving up on him is what doomed him.

@@ReconCrusader doesn't the new lore say it's the primarchs' mother's fault

Christian Yaerger hypocrisy is not lost on even the most smart beings out there. Its easier to tell lies to yourself than accept the truth of hour fuckups.

To keep himself alive is my bet.

Besides if the dark gods decide they want something no matter what, there's little that someone, even a primarch, can do

Maybe he believed he could control chaos or something. Or perhaps he fell into madness in time like Konrad

Cannon? The Angel Exterminatus damaged his soul, so he could either let his soul wither and die or he could try to avert that. Daemonhood was a solution, though perhaps not the best one. Truth be told though, I hope they retcon Perturabo's ascension. Meaning: instead of sacrificing Imperial Fist geneseed during the battle of the Iron Cage, they have him master the Forge of Souls or something.

Such a great book. Loved seeing the relationship between Kharn and Argel Tal.

Angron is overrated a lot. This is a guy that would dig himself into holes and had to be bailed out by Lorgar of all people. He was taught a lesson by Leman Russ and allowed to live because Russ didn't want to kill another brother but Angron was too dull to understand what happened. He was also being successfully fought off by Gulliman in a 2v1 with Lorgar helping him until he turned into a demon prince. When Dorn is appraising the enemy primarchs he admits that its Perturbo he is afraid of not angron. He notes he would smash Angrons skull. Meanwhile Perturbo defeated demon Fulgrim while being drained of his power. Demon Fulgrim admits that Perturbo is probably the mightiest of the Primarchs. Angron is that guy that "gets real mad bro" and windmill punches but gets KOed anytime he fights someone who knows what they are doing.

@@Moadar wow, I can see, that you clearly have read some of the lore, but I must say, that you get almost everything wrong. 1; Yes Russ outmanoeuvred Angron in their confrontation, but Angron won the actual one on one fight. Russ could indeed have had Angron gunned down afterwards, but not only did Angron never give a shit about dying that way (ie. Undefeated in single combat) but Russ did not have permission to do that by the Emperor. Russ won tactically, but Angron won the only fight he wanted to. 2; Guilliman did manage to briefly survive against Lorgar and Angron, after having fought Lorgar to a draw, but as Lorgar withdrew from the fight to prepare a ritual, Angron gained the upper hand, and in the end he had Guilliman on one knee preparing to strike the killing blow. Lorgar then paralysed Angron, saving Guillmans life and using Angrons rage of being denied the kill to turn him in to a Demon Primarch. The wounded Guilliman fleed. All of this is in the book Betrayer. 3; You reference Dorn and Malcadors conversation in the lighting tower/dark king short stories, but the point of that conversation was, that Dorn only feared either Konrad Curze or learning, that Horus was justified in his rebellion. Your reference was very misleading. 4; Perturabo never fought Demon Fulgrim, he hits Fulgrim ones with forgebreaker, and that is the final trigger for Fulgrims Ascension. Fulgrim praises Perturabo's great strength, fortitude and dreams, not his overall martial superiority. In the entire Lore, Angron has as fare as I know only lost one semi one vs one, and that is this Perturabo fight, my first comment outline why Perturabo earned that win. I hope you take my comment in good faith, I don't mean to offend you.

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen Very much agree with your points. If anything it seems like the cool thing now to UNDERRATE Angron and overrate Perturabo. I like them both as characters, but I think people sort of fall for the "He's so intelligent and brutal" aspect of Pert that they overplay him a lot.

@@Kristian.B.Kristiansen 1. From what I remember it seemed to me Russ was allowing Angron to win in order to draw him away from his forces. Russ flat out admitted he didn't want to kill Angron just teach him a lesson. 2. Ill have to reread it but I remember Lorgar starting to panic when Gulliman was pushing him and Angron back. I know the power of chaos then picked up and Lorgar was able to weave it into the ritual for Angrons change. 3. It wasn't from that short story. Its from a more recent one I think. It was Dorns own thoughts about why he was nervous about the coming fight. He specifically points out he would beat Angron and its Perturbo that makes him worried. 4.Ill have to redownload this book but I thought they did fight after Fulgrim turned. It was after they were in Perturabos dream city. Been awhile since Ive read it. You could be right. No offense taken. I love talking 40k stuff. Been so long since I have gotten to.

@@Moadar 1; That is a matter of interpretation. Angron tells us the story, and to him, there is no doubt he won their duel. Their weapons smashed, the two grappled and rolled on the ground. Angron came out ahead, Russ having to crawl away. Sidenote; Russ later admits, that coming there was foolish, and just him playing the Emperor's executioner a little to much. Big E did not care enough to send someone officially. 2; I have just reread the relevant parts of Betrayer. Guillman and Lorgar fights to a "deathlock". Angron arrives, attacks Guilliman. Lorgar DOES NOT fight Guilliman with Angron at all, but right away begins his ritual. He is NEVER worried about Angrons chances, Angron presses Guilliman back, is almost definitely the better fighter and unquestionably the stronger Primarch. Guillman is forced to one knee. Lorgar paralysed Angron saving Guilliman. 3;I don't think I am wrong here, but please find the book or short stories you are referring to. It doesn't really matter anyway. Dorn could be wrong. Guillman thought himself in the top 5 primarchs in fight strength, and then got slammed on his ass by Kor Pheraon in Know no Fear. 4; I have reread the relevant parts of Angels Exterminatus. Perturabo gets his stole power back, when ninja raven guard destroys the essence stealer stone, He smash Fulgrim with Forgebreaker, and Fulgrim goes full Snakegrim. And then they part ways. No epic final dual. I do love that book, because it does a lot to wash away the stain of the shit novella; Crimson Fist. It does both the 3th and 4th Primarch justice.

It happened for very different reasons, and Perturabo was always resistant to it for a very long time. He hated his brothers for succumbing initially, but then felt like he had no other choice. It was when he recognized his own brutality that he realized he may have already succumb. That's the point with Chaos: always tempting, luring, deceiving, and misleading without you even being aware. Human minds are the most ambitious of all races, while also fearing mortality the most, hence they are the most susceptible to the draw of short-term gains. Also, hypocrisy is commonplace in the human way of thinking, and Perturabo is no exception.

All the traitor Primarchs will be consumed eventually.

Or the writers keep moving the power levels up and down to facilitate the story they want to tell this week. Kind of like comic book power levels. I think the emperor did intentionally make the primarchs different but he never balanced them for pvp. He never wanted them to fight against each other. They were supposed to be brothers. Yes, he did intend for the Space Wolves to be the enforcers but I don't think he ever imagined an event like the Horus Heresy could happen.

So did Angron, that's why he still has the Butcher's Nails. They're so integral to his self-concept that they are part of his daemonic form (or they're a cosmic joke by Khorne).

Cosmic joke sounds about right! Well said

I think the demonic face is pretty cook myself. Would’ve like to see some of his facial tattoos still but I think it works for angron