Post Office lawyer accused of lying about Horizon software in Inquiry grilling 

I wouldn't single out the Sikhs, he's a disgrace to human beings :)

Hey news just in - religious people of every 'faith' lie.

​@@SamLowryDZ-015 yep, Paula Vennells was (and still is at this time) a lay preacher with the Church of England - and the last time I checked (before I left Catholicism 30 years ago), being honest and truthful was a big part of being a devout Christian.

Can you complain to someone about his swearing on your Holy Guru? Is that not something a fellow Sikh can do?( im a white roman Catholic 45yr old) I mean no disrespect 🙏

He is a disgrace to his family above all else.

Nice!

Hehe

Nobody goes to jail , ever

Oh I wondered what I needed to do to learn how to save docs and print off. Lots of us oldies often don’t waste money on a desk top computer and just have an iPad, perhaps that’s why we don’t understand desk top terminology.

Yeah, he will be a top student

Or just gone for gold and back handed him

Jason Beer KC - The Gentleman Assassin!

10k aday helps with the stress

@@doggy55915 don't think there's much stress when you're the one holding all the aces!

I’d turn up to work with broken bones if I was paid £10k a day. Knighthood! Give me a break 😂

He is known for this style of questioning. Nice and pleasant, but difficult questions, and let the witness get themself into trouble.

3 million pounds in fees helps him deal with the lies

It seems to be a requirement for a senior job in the Post Office to be suffering from.Alzheimers as nobody can remember anything !!

​@@SkinnyCow.Hope that comes from Vennells' 3 million bonus

👏👏👏 he’s brilliant !

C’mon, tell us how you really feel. 😂

Sooner this enquiry is over,the sooner criminal investigations can begin and hopefully we get several convictions

I’ll tell you…let’s hope these fukin bastards go to jail

They won’t

In your dreams I'm afraid, but I can hear the comments in the background when I heard this on my earphones while doing housework, I know they are beying for justice in the room.

I believe it's 'Obtaining a pecuniary advantage by misrepresentation'. It beggars belief the Post Office made him head of criminal law...... The criminal element appears to be solely how he operated.

He must be a Tory.

There was a lady lawyer from Northern Ireland who did the exact same thing; dementia at very convenient moments. At least she didn't waffle on at length with nothing to say.

⁠@@kellwickcornwall7885it’s worse. He had obligations to disclose things that might assist a defence case or undermine his own. Not just in one case, it’s an ongoing obligation to do so under CPIA 1996. So if I as a prosecutor were to learn that evidence used to convict someone in a case I was running becomes discredited either at the time or (say) a few years later it would fall to me to disclose that fact. He’s open to prosecution for Pervert the Course of Justice and conspiracy to do so with others in the know at the time, max penalty is life! I saw that the SRA (Solicitors Regulatory Authority) watched Singh’s evidence with someone writing a running commentary on their website. So karma is coming for Mr. Singh in one form or another. It’s been a shit-show from the off this enquiry, these shysters ran a coach and horses through statutory safeguards, railroading subbies into unjust verdicts, bankrupting some, ruining reputations, jailing the innocent, causing early deaths and despairing suicides all whilst protecting their flawed Horizon system and now it seems their own miserable hides too. Be interesting to see who, if any gets to grip the rail. Edit for typos.

I don't understand why they're not being arrested!!! someone explain to me how the f k they are not all arrested it's insane

Spot on Steve, well said.

I’m pissed myself at that bit!

😂😂😂😂

Tell me you're flustered & panicking without telling me... I um um ah, it's not what you're suggesting... What is it then? Erm um um ah, I dont know. What a prat.

"But it wasn't supposed to read like that, that's not what it meant" - Paula Vennells(!!)

Lots of them (managers) appear to be like this there. The manager of the investigation team said he didn't know anything. He just did what others told him. He got given documents that were technical and just signed them off as he relied on everyone else to do his job. So many of them were like this. They are all the Tom Smykowski character from Office Space "What is it you actually do here?"

Yeah, but at least he knows how to print a doc--- oh wait.

​@@TheStevenWhitinghe still has his red swingline stapler

Lots of concentration camp guards and other perpetrators of atrocities give the same excuse. 'I was just following orders'. I bet he was more than happy to take his blood money.

The token deadwood to meet the woke quota

He has absolutely no credibility. His answers are just squirming waffle.

All these people have been coached by some lawyer, and told to deny that they seen anything, or knew anything, or can't remember, I really hope that after this inquiry, these people are charged and taken to court, if not then it's been covered up again.

I’m at an age where don’t need to lie… By a liar

Friday I pictured Mandy T spluttering into her morning coffee

So has our little country way down under, there is no common law for real people ruled by charlatans.

its always been like this,,, only now we can paper trail .... bang to rights !!

Agree

Best comment.

All of them, including Ministers

​@@jefflong7573naive comment none will be jailed they will all escape scott free even though they are guilty.thats the best comment

Another disgusting individual.just a horrible person

No, he started as the cleaner!

This comment made me lol 😆😆😆😆

He may well have; on the coat tails of mediocrity

Indeed. The difference between a lawyer and a KC is vast is it not?

Exactly. CYA on everything, Teflon coat and distance yourself from poor management.

I’m a rtd RN, OHN and I spent a lot of time ensuring I covered my ass whenever pen met paper for all the reasons you stated. Integrity is not an attribute of many managers I met.

this not a court. It is an enquiry.

😂

Perhaps he can do conveyancing for the other inmates, like The Shawshank Redemption.

He surely will be.

Does he know where Scotland is? No disrespect to a Scotsman

Astonishing! Talk about being on the gravy train, quite literally! I wonder how many more like him there are, hiding in plain sight in government departments, public companies and elsewhere?

@@joparish1037 The world is full of people promoted beyond their capabilities. Sadly there are decent people that don't get a look in.

I'm amazed how calm and collected Jason Beer remained when he recognised the lies coming from the mouth of Singh. I would have found it difficult to remain unmoved in such a situation !

It’s not strange at all … he HAS to do it. It is not a crime to be stupid. It is a crime to pervert the course of justice and hide evidence and lie on oath. He thinks that if he is concluded to be merely stupid then he won’t be in trouble. The bad news for him is, the enquiry is bound to find he is telling lie after lie after lie. For him, I reckon he will eventually find himself in jail as a result of criminal proceedings to follow this enquiry.

It’s the go to excuse in modern Tory Britain. If you’re caught in totally blatant wrong doing just explain that you are utterly incompetent and had no idea what your job was or what any of the rules were. If necessary plead a level of disconnection with reality that would have gotten you sacked from a paper round. And expect that to absolve you from all consequences while leaving your personal and professional legacy completely intact. It often works to. Boris Johnson claimed to have had zero idea what the laws he himself passed meant and to have barely known what room he was in or what he was doing at any point in his prime ministership as a way of getting out of blatant criminal acts. And he never faced serious legal repercussions and is still one of the highest paid journalists in the country and a significant portion of the Tory party desperately want him to return as PM. You can see why every lower level weasel and grifter see see it as a viable defence

​@@WhichDoctor1do you think anyone has told him (and others trying this tactic) that this reverse Nuremberg/incompetent stupidity defence (Westminster Village defence?) only works for those at the top of the tree. Prime and Cabinet ministers, senior executives, and the like won't see a criminal court, MPs and other boardroom executives should be found not guilty/case thrown out, everyone else is thrown to a baying, vengeful crowd.

@@pippipster6767I agree, the evidence is overwhelmingly highlight he is a key participant in the coverup.

@@pippipster6767 you do realise I said this in mock and know exactly what he's doing.😉

And because they are the so called elite

He is doomed in the eyes of the public from the inept words from his own mouth but he is only a criminal if he is prosecuted and convicted. However, to the criminal standard, he is innocent until proven guilty. Irony is that his role in PO/RM was to assume PMs were guilty (and Horizon was faultless) despite presumtion of innocence by PMs charged/dismissed/admonished.

This guy isn’t called Singh, he’s really called Scott Free

How about adding the ferry fiasco that has been going on for years up here in Scotland with millions of pounds being thrown overboard and no-one being held to account---then there's the missing £600.000 still unaccounted for, need I go on, there's more !

The last time i saw such breathtaking arrogance and blatant lying was the trial by television interview of Dr Emil Savundra by David Frost, they're both complete crooks, this guy should be facing prison for his crimes.

Lol! So true... and denying everything is thr only way they won't incriminate themselves.

We wish it would go there. It won't. A disgrace.

@@sabre22b oh I think the sub postmasters/postmistresses will not be short of supporting funds to bring private prosecutions

That's what their teams have told them to say. God knows how this man got through law school, how he analyses data, reads his mail or how he functions as a human. His life must be a mess, now its got even messier. He needs to be brought to task

It happens all the time.

It is acceptable in criminal court. If you cant remember (maybe because the event happened a long time ago) - then you cant remember. In a court with a jury it might not go down well though.

Really well put. In my experience, that's exactly how it is.

You are describing ‘The Peter Principle’ here 😉

In a nutshell!

​@darkangel9171 Correct in all walks of life unfortunately

And god help anyone who tries to whistle blow

It's called, "the Establishment", I saw this when I joined the civil service from school, one senior guy told me, " if you want to get on you must join the Freemasons ".

just remember all over the world its like that, all people working at government departments are useless lazy and not very bright, that I noticed when I moved from South Africa in Jan 2018 to Germany and had to apply for my permit,they kept on asking me for my papers that I had handed in at the German embassy in Pretoria when I applied to move to Germany, but it was all in the system,

It would be great if the inquiry set up a "Buy Beer a Beer" for his fans.

I love him and the other two huge brain boxed men who don’t even try to hide their contempt for the people they are questioning ! Each of the lawyers throughout these procedures have been clinically decisive and they all deserve public recognition ! Now onwards to Venells and I can’t wait to see her try to squirm away from accepting responsibility !

I'd love to meet Jason Beer and buy him a beer. These are the kind of unsung heroes that bring justice. What a guy, the way he systematically debunks all the hokum being presented to him. A total master of his work. Respect.

He's an intellectual beast. Squeaky bum time for anyone who has this man on the opposition side.

I love Beer too... and the other 2 cool gents... And the young Lady doesn't let a goal get through, she's like a crouching tiger! Nice but mean! 😉😄 They all deserve recognition and NOT the kind Vennals got! (for what is beyond me).... REAL RECOGNITION! They have shown everyone, how its MEANT to be done!! 💛

Yes, but it's not so awful watching them squirm in their hot seats thinking of jail time.

If they are still lying, when it is already out in the open, is there something else they are trying to hide?

Privatising just creates a mafioso Culture … them and us

Probably every similar department in the country operates the same , the thing we all should be aware of is that if the system accuses you of anything , no matter how innocent you are , it’s time to skip this country

Now that would be justice served but somehow i cant see it happening

People in power abusing the system

@@eugenecartwright4390 At least in this case, they are being held accountable at least in terms of public knowledge. We'll see what happens post inquiry, but I would expect several criminal trials, for at least Paula Vennells, Angela van den Bogard, Chris Aujard and Gareth Jenkins to start with. Jarnail Singh should be amongst them. Of all of them, he is one of the most involved, in the miscarriages.

A little harsh to say amnesia when we're talking about things from more than 10 years ago. There is a reasonable assumption you might forget things...

It’s amusing to see a string of I don’t recall, I don’t recall and then suddenly an instant denial; I definitely didn’t do that, I did this exact thing that I suddenly have crystal clear memory of.

@@lonyo5377 Even with damning evidence via e mail trails, you’re saying these people have no case to answer because they can’t remember what happened 10 years ago?

@@lonyo5377 No, it is not. They have already been provided with all the papers they are being shown, and have had a long time to consider the whole situation. I simply don't believe them.

Sadly won't happen i bet ya, he will get away with it and this inquiry does nothing positive, like the covid inquiry

Knew

I guess you are not a narcissist 👍

Well, you probably don't have his pension pot.

@@susivarga7303 I don’t, but no amount of money could erase my humiliation and guilt. It makes you wonder if these people are actually capable of feeling shame.

@@honved1 No, they are not, that is how they end up in top positions with mentioned pension and you don't. They'll never go down, ever, for what they did. The system protects itself.

Psychopaths aren’t known for empathy. You aren’t a psychopath.

It's possible that he's both!

He can lie all he wants. The documents from the time show that he was made aware of the bugs, and also that he knew about disclosure requirements - he wrote as such when it became obvious that Second Sight unavoidably would disclose the bugs to MPs. He can try lie today he didn't know then, but he obviously did. And hopefully those documents will put him in jail.

I hope there was a sick bucket close by !

Yes with the help of Fujitsu and the post office to steal money from their employees, extortion at the highest level. I hope no other company does this in the future if they are going under, PO was worried about insolvency in those years for a time so they devised a cruel plan to extort money from their SPM's, I really hope I am wrong but sorry this looks like it, any other company would have stopped Horizon in its tracks when it was proved it was not working right, this smacks of extortion/fraud to me.

The file location on the doc is temporary internet files, that means he opened the document from an email, but didn't manually save it anywhere. Sounds like he should have saved it though.

He then went on to claim he can’t have printed the document as he didn’t know how to print (at the time). It’s like a child’s lie. Simply ridiculous

He quite obviously is. He can try deny knowledge now all he wants, but the evidence is there that he knew a) of the bugs b) of the disclosure requirements, and that ,instead of doing what was required of a criminal lawyer involved in such cases and the highest criminal lawyer in the prosecuting body, he tried to cover it up. The evidence will send him to prison I hope.

And did a full day's work unlike these ineffectual people

Oh I really do hope they are tried, and convicted, of this evil cover up. They clearly know/remember everything, given the obvious implications on all those SPM's and their families of this sick cover up at the time.

I doubt justice will be done.

I think with the inquiry is being careful not to directly make accusations or mention offences. But certainly in the testimony of the two I mentioned, and execs like Van Den Bogard, and probably Vennels to come, what is being highlighted is evidence of actual crimes, perjury, perverting the course of justice etc. The law teams have been brilliantly clinical in laying our the trail that it makes the idea of noone being prosecuted ridiculous to me.

It's straight out of the Boris Johnson playbook and needs to be stamped down upon.

this is going to go the same way the Zondo commission was done in South Africa, the videos are on here, it took 3 years to run, cost billions of Rands and 2 years later ,still no one has been found guilty and gone to jail, even after the commission saw how corrupt the ANC government is,

Like any sane person believes him?

I think it will unfortunately have ro come to that .I don't think the police will do anything

Err. That’s not how gaol works..

@@1mlister It is if the subpostmasters have to crowdfund to make a private criminal prosecution, as the Post Office did with them. The police should prosecute in this case but if they don't, private prosecutions are a recourse.

I agree, do a crowd fund ,and put this bumbling,hum arr, huff puff head in hands LIAR in jail. What’s with the head dress pre evidence…? Out and out lying hypocrite

The location in the video is temporary internet files, that means he opened the document from an email, but didn't manually save it anywhere. Sounds like he should have saved it.

No. He couldn’t remember anything in his first sitting at the desk! JB is far too sharp for this guy.

@@johnwalkley6746 I want a job where I can't do anything because I can't remember anything.

@navi2710 Can you say that again … I don’t recall ?

@@abc33944 I don't rememeber what was said.

Don't forget the post office tried to refuse to use horizon and were overridden from above! Dickery upon dickery.

Most jobs I have had have asked me to break the law (usually because the manager is ignorant of the law but not always). I'd be interested how many others have had the same experience.

@@gileshumphry I definitely see people who are open about problems getting sidelined and replaced by those with a "can do" attitude. I can imagine in a legally constrained area this would lead to... Colourful... Outcomes

He's a new hero of mine. I love watching someone so skilled in their career. No one in the Post Office has a chance when they sit for cross examination with Mr. Jason Beer KC. He should be Knighted.

Agree totally.

Sometimes - sometimes - by the time HR find out someone is incompetent, they are too scared to fire the incompetent, for fear of being accused of being racist/sexist etc. However, all that HR have to do is be fair, and able to articulate why they're going to fire the incompetent.

Very true I didn't think of it like that but u right

Similar events happened under Sturgeons watch up here in Scotland that carried on for years---no-one held responsible until recently when the dam burst and the lies and deceptions came gushing out and the cover up's started !

At least their reputations will be different.

I think he was able to he’s just lying.

She can't claim that when she was clearly given documentation about issues

@@judithmatthews8460 You think?

It seems to me that many of the persons who caused the nightmares to the sub postmasters already have left the Post Office.

Not my postie tho...

Not necessarily. If the police ever ask for an interview or you ever find yourself in such a formal setting, take a solicitor. Innocent people incriminate themselves by accident all the time. Don’t trust people who say you don’t need a solicitor, they just dont want you to have one.

​@1mlister Singh IS a solicitor though. Why would he of all people need the advice of another solicitor on criminal matters? Solicitors are for people like us with no knowledge of the legal system and processes.

...or a spectacularly bad liar.

@@cuttwice3905 oh 100% a complete liar the problem is he is playing so dumb, it's difficult to see what's lies and what's truth. My opinion is he lied from the start and it just snowballed and being a complete snake he went along with what the POL did without stepping up and admitting he messed up as to save his own skin

The file location on the doc is temporary internet files, that means he opened the document from an email, but didn't manually save it anywhere. Sounds like he should have saved it though.