Quality was an AFTERthought | After Review, Part 1 

If you think that's a stretch, wait until she gets her internship.

@@KrimsonRogue - mother of god

ehh...not really. I usually take 17-18 creds each semester and you still have a lot of free time.

I don't know how I didn't catch that when listing off signs that the author doesn't remember college or probably never attended one, but that's a good point too. Especially when her English Lit class is studying an entire book over the course of a week. If her other classes have similar work loads... suddenly her needing an hour to reassemble notes after Hardon scattered them isn't too much of a stretch.

@@Animerulespeoplere your classes really short and easy or are you taking like 2 languages I’m taking 15 credit hours worth and I’m out of time most of the day due to the work I gotta do

Went here looking for this comment and I feel so relieved I found it, thank you

OMG AOSBWKWNSKSNAKWNWKAJ true though

Wasnt her dad a drunk? To me I think she would have some like... Idk aversion to alcohol and people who drink?

@@royallynick some people have that reaction, and other people find themselves drawn to dangerous situations that remind them of their previous abusive situations because it's familiar, if nothing else. It's crazy hard to adjust to normal relationships after being in an abusive one, and sometimes you find yourself subconsciously drifting towards dangerous situations and abusive people because it's just normal to you.

@@memeyartist5591 I completely agree! My take on it is if someone grows up with a parent who is emotionally abusive or showed “love” by controlling them, and the person never experiences love without control or abuse then that is the behavior that will make them feel loved, until they deconstruct and rebuild their relationship expectations. (Which is exhausting and takes a lot of clarity, and at least in my experience, comes after the abusive romantic relationship).

I get the reference.

Nice.

Yeah, a Russian roulette wheel.

@@kennethwoody5897 Dating her would be like playing Russian roulette.

I think the most frustrating part listening to this (which was also the case in 365 Days) is the fact that these protagonists already, y'know, have partners who - at least by all appearances - are gentle, respectful, and forgiving as all hell. It's not even like the characters' actions can be understood as the result of extreme loneliness, desperation or a severely dysfunctional environment where they may have internalized this behavior as normal. They're already in perfectly healthy, even enviable relationships but the men just aren't "exciting" enough, I guess, so they decide to go off with some absolutely unhinged lunatic instead. Meanwhile I (and probably thousands of other women) are sitting here listening to this like... WTF? :/ I would LOVE to actually be able to find and date a guy like Noah - to fuck if it's too "boring" or "safe"! The poor guy deserves so much better! EDIT: I realize that's only tangentially related to the original comment but I just had to get that off my chest. Tessa is a piece of shit. At least Lara had the excuse of being literally kidnapped and her family held hostage... no clue what Tessa's excuse is!

That’s great to hear. People like her don’t deserve your kindness. I’m glad you got away from her and are in a happy relationship.

Man, I was cheated once, she was my first(and only) girlfriend ever and I really loved her and tried my best to make her happy When I asked her why she said I “was difficult to love” and “just boring and too affectionate”(two things she never communicated to me because she “don’t wanted to hurt my feelings”) She started to act like if she was single and I was the only one that didn’t know, after we finally had our break up, my friend of a long time started dating her and I immediately realized they were hooking up behind my back So yeah she cheated because the same reasons as Tessa in after and I gotta say, I really simpatize for Noah

​@@lucca7566 some people I fucking swear... And honestly "too affectionate" to me is a red flag bc it sounds like people want a stand-offish, Hardin type guy because of trauma 😂 I get not everyone wants lovey dovey and cheesy but that's not the only way to be affectionate

@@xLiLlyx98 yeah, like i wouldn’t mind if she told me she was not into lovey dovey things(which I have to be honest and say i pretty much was) but like, just never even heard a word of it, she always seemed to like it and then it suddenly was huge ass relationship breaker that she simply couldn’t stand anymore, I was so confused and depressed

@@0parko9, Fanfic is incredibly useful for extending the lifespan of abandoned properties and improving upon established properties. Removing them from the context of what the fan was a fan of makes them much much worse.

@@0parko9 Fr, some are definitely even better than actual books sad that only the bad ones gets all the attention

@@Jaydee-wd7wr I have the theory that it's easier to scrub and repackage the low quality works, because they have next to nothing to do with the source material.

Unfortunately, I would have even more nickels on the amount of original fictions I've read with basically the exact same plot as After. 😬

I'm starting to think they had an influence in today's Incel and Femcel cultures

Everytime I read a line where “crash” is used in a kissing scene just imagine the characters giving eachother a Glasgow kiss then falling over.

I’m picturing the scene in FLCL where Naota is thrown from a crash into Ninamori and it slows down as their lips almost meet only to end with a two-victim head collision

Crash is certainly not a very romantic or sexy word. Check it out: Crimson is knocking on your door and you open it. Suddenly his face crashes into yours. That just sounds rediculous. 😂

🤣🤣🤣 _SSAAAAMMMEEE!_ 😏🤭😁😹

@@kristinfrostlazerbeams Agreed, completely!!! 😂😂🤍

Yeah, it's so weird. Like, you would expect this to be a starter question for a discussion about how a good novel prepares arcs, works with a theme and puts in specific details to in the end convince readers that this is how the story was supposed to happen. But obviously, Anna Todd does not know that any of this is necessary, which funny enough, her characters showcase as well as the novel itself, leading After to have the theme of 'nobody knows how a good book works at all'

Sounds like he/she/ze is teaching a bunch of kindergarteners

To be fair, I've been asked that question about romances in college. Albeit about much more complicated books, like Evelina. And the professor only expected thumbs up so she could talk about the marriage process. Point taken.

I remember when we got to read from a selection of books that the teacher found for us (most of which were classics), and I picked 1984. Pride and Prejudice was in there, too, and since most of the classmates were either reading Gatsby, LotF or Maus, the teacher had to combine smaller groups. I got grouped with the P&P students, which was hilarious. The transition from prim and proper Victorian England to dull, hopeless Oceania is so laughably jarring but we somehow made it work.

@@multilad816 they are is less of a mouthful than what you just said

Dental benefits? Ugh, guess I have to stay in that relationship a bit longer

Even better 😂

My thoughts exactly. There are manuscripts buried in my archive that will be burned before I die - just in case.

Absolutely! I only write fanfiction, but I will at one point delete/burn my earliest works someday. It's embarrassing enough I published one of them, I don't need an unfinished one with thousands of typos out there. 😑🙁

@@michanone mmmm not sure about the ‘delete early work’ part 😅 better to keep it private so you’re able to learn and see how you’ve improved, yeah?🙂

@@gracekim25 that's why I added "someday". It's been over 10 years by now and I've started as a very naive teenager. (I was seventeen, if I remember correctly) Now I'm over thirty and I dare say I've improved a lot. I'm still keeping them right now, but I'm sure one day I will be embarrassed and mad enough at my younger self that I will delete them. Just so that no one will ever stumble upon them, not even myself. Some cringe stuff needs to go after some time.

I can't remember who said "I wouldn't show my first draft to my worst enemy" but I feel that very much. I'm almost done with the first draft for my second book and no one is setting their eyes on a single chapter until at least the 2nd edit lol

This is interesting. I have been wondering why books (fanfictions) like these become so popular. I think this is it. The teenagers/young women who enjoy these books most likely identify with the MC because of this. Even if they grew up as a rebel. (My own sibling enjoyed Twilight and she was a rebel growing up but we both had an overbearing mother.)

That's more effort than the writer put into it. Congratulations on your justifications, I guess.

As someone that grew up with a mom like that, this is exactly how I acted in my last relationship. Doesn’t help the fact that he was 10 years older than me either, it was very toxic and I’m glad I’m away from him.

I think him being "Harry Styles" helps too to some extent, like there's already a parasocial relationship between idol and fan, so when this fanfiction was written there's just that tendency to justify the bad behavior because, hey! He's Harry Styles. I think that's what makes this romance so much worse than other books that understand that the characters need to be appealing on their own merits and not due to some preexisting image (not that it would matter much given how "goth" Harry Styles is now) XD

God damn, You dissected that character like a friggin’ surgeon

She probably just Googled random famous books and plays she could name drop. If I had a pound for every time Twilight or its rip offs mentioned Romeo and Juliet or Pride and Prejudice I'd be a rich man.

If I had that teacher in a class I would use chatgpt google translate and Wikipedia to do all the assignments and work since it’s obvious he cares Jack for the course and would most likely only check for spelling mistakes

​@@Xehanort10oh and wuthering heights was in Twilight as well...ugh...

Seriously Lizzy telling Darcy to fuck off after he proposes the first time is one of the most important scenes in the entire book

That would be horrible... poor kid. Though on another note, if one wanted to write the revenge fic where Noah ends up with a better girl and a happier life after Tessa, this wouldn't be a bad place to start. Maybe while he is stuck there one of the other girls in the dorm sees him and wonders what he's doing there, and after he tells his side of things she tells him "Wow... that's awful that she just ditched you like that. You deserve way better than that, dude." Probably not have him end up with that girl, but that talk would be the start of Noah rebuilding his confidence and moving on.

Poor love 🥺

​@insulttothehumanrace3807 This, give the poor man some wins on ao3 people

I believe that Styles is British and in Britain the age of consent is 16. Of course, that is still rather troublesome given that the writer was in her twenties.

I guess "Young Adult" shouldn't exist as a category then, because all professional writers are older than those who they write as being attractive. And what author wouldn't want to be a main character in a their romance? I'll get the matches.

@@Mecharnie_Dobbs i mean... writing about a fictional 16 year old who doesn't exist and therefore cannot be harmed is very different from doing the same about a REAL teenager.

@@evi6629 Good point.

She went so hard on trying to meet him or at least talk to her that he blocked her on all social media.

I just immediately thought of the one Simpsons gag where Homer steals a couple of bricks and it cuts to a construction crew that goes "we're three bricks short," and the other guy goes, "Damn, alright, pack up boys, we gotta tell the sick kids there won't be no children's hospital."

My high school life would've been significantly better if I took those risks with a friend group like that

Do tell Dr. Bright

And here I thought teens only sneak onto construction sites if they're Animorphs fans. I stand corrected.

Man, all my high school friend group took was drugs. Bike ramps sounds a lot more fun lmfao

Well, if Pride and Prejudice was the assignment for the first week, you might be able to drop out of it soon enough to get a refund. I definitely would go for it if I had a professor that asked a question like that and let two belligerent students argue during class time...

Me: Is there a point to this?

At that point, Id just sit there with popcorn 🍿 and be like: *"Welp, we're all gonna fail."*

I would've began applying to a different university to transfer to as soon as I heard this dumb question.

I think I’d just walk out of that classroom.

Agreed! And also, I find it very sad/interesting how some of the most toxic/problematic “romances” out there have been written by women.

@@justagirl7094 may I introduce you to the onison triology

somehow an abuser making a romance where the victim doesn't see red flags and even seems to find them almost like green flags is such a leap of logic that only a drunk abuser can make

⁠​⁠@@justagirl7094well, most romance writers and I would assume most self published authors are women in general so that tracks. it’s almost like at a low level almost all mainstream media romanticizes toxic masculinity and female passiveness and women internalize that as, well, romance….

​@@justagirl7094Wattpad is the worse tho, during my teenage phase I had a Wattpad phase, and literally almost every toxic romance book are authored by Female Writers, and the irony is my fav romance series on Wattpad depicting a healthy relationship, Storm and Silence is authored by a male Writer, Robert Their.

I think that's too low a bar.

Still a better love story than After Twilight

The sad thing is that the title of "Worst Love Story EVER" was stolen from "Twilight" YEARS AGO. Compared to the books that have been published since (including this one) Bella and Edward's relationship seems wholesome by comparison.

Realistically? We're probably not. 😅 (I think 'After' just DOES NOT actually have the same kind of mainstream popularity as 'Twilight'; it would be difficult to meet someone who's never even heard of Twilight, but I would bet there are still tons of people who haven't ever heard of After.) Loll

@@jaginaiaelectrizs6341 "still tons of people who haven't heard of After" Let's be honest, that's probably a good thing.

Failing upwards is my life story.

Case in point, literally every writer for Disney and Amazon these days. There are 5 year olds with better writing ability than some of those guys

@@filmandfirearms That and cry various ists and phobes when people call them out on their terrible writing.

Man I need to finish up my own theory of succeeding with reverse gravity.

Just ask anyone that worked for the CW Network.

just a little

That would legit be an interesting novel

I feel like I've seen this story somewhere before, but at the time of writing this I cannot recall... Nonetheless, it's a cool idea for a story and a moral that doesn't get taught nearly enough, so go for it.

The plot of Chainsaw man

@@Angela1111122222 totally. He saw all the red flags, but he still went, "but she's hot" and look what happened *ugly sobbing*

it's like when a toddler throws stuff around because they can't have a cookie. and teassa is the mother who lets him cry for what he wants.

You are either a chaste man who refuses sex even after 2 years of dating (Unrealistic to the point of unbelievability. Unless Noah is incredibly religious -which isn't shown to be the case) or you are a massive man slut. According to Todd there is no between. Noah waiting until marriage seems like a dumb excuse to justify why Tess is a virgin who isn't a "slut like all the other girls." But she she happily pines after the toxic man slut with 0 redeeming qualities. Being a virgin doesn't need a justification, it's more common than people think. One of my guy friends told me that he has been in the company of guys who will bond over the fact that they have f-cked "really ugly women", purely because they wanted to have s3x. I cannot fathom seeking intimacy with a person I personally find physically repulsive, but alas, I am not a man. Yeah, Noah's character just seems unrealistic to me. Most men will take s3x if it is offered, even if they don't like the woman.

Considering this is a self-insert novel, I'm sure that parallels of Todd's actual love life with her ex-husband and her love for Harry Styles, for sure.

The writer is a fucking Pick-me, the same stereotypical female incels whine about

p

I’ve never been in a relationship so I might be talking out my ass on this but, I think if Noah wants to wait until marriage or whenever he’s ready for intimacy then there’s nothing honestly wrong with that! Same case with wanting kids someday, or marriage vs no marriage, even kinks. It’s important for a partner to respect what the other wants from a relationship even if they don’t necessarily share it, otherwise communicate to find alternative solutions, or in a sadder case seek other people who do share their expectations and values. I don’t like the thought of one partner treated as less by the other partner or outsiders so long as what they want isn’t harmful, you know? (Assuming you aren’t going to read the whole After series op) Oh boy you’re gonna hate how the “less desirable” 2nd romantic interest gets treated in the next book. He may be white bread and dorky in personality but it just makes him look even better compared to Hardin.

Like Stephanie Meyer comparing herself to Shakespeare

I just don’t get why toxic relationship stories get so popular. It’s honestly scary and sad how they get so popular.

@@TravisBroski because people who buy them are too young for relationships or people who are older that mistake abusive behavior for true love. either way its because of stupid people.

@@GribbleGob It just... UGH it annoys me to no end.

@@TravisBroski usually by teen girls who don't know any better. When all of your media is filled with dysfunction. It all looks normal.

I mean, Fan Fiction is kinda famous for it, even though most probably don't have them.

​@@greghannibal it depends of the source material, in my experience. Hannibal NBC has a larger proportion of E- or M-rated fics on AO3 than, let's say, The Old Guard, or even Good Omens, because the violence and sexual tension is much more central to the plot and... aesthetic, of the show itself. I think that all in all on AO3, the most popular rating is T-rating, but I may be wrong (it's been a while since I've checked). I won't lie: though I have nothing against E- or M-rated fics at all, I find it a bit sad that everytime fanfiction is mentioned in a non-fanfiction community, all the genres, creativit and ratings tend to be erased to conjure up a rather stereotypical and a bit off conception of fanfiction. A shame! (dekopuma I see your point though, I wasn't adressing your comment)

​@thishouseisacircus8370 Heyo, Good Omens mention! That aside - I agree with your point, especially about the dismissal of the variety of fanfiction in non-fanfiction spaces. I feel like more people would be comfortable reading fanfiction if that stereotype wasn't so prevalent and it's a real shame because people could find a lot of fun in it. Anyway, love Good Omens, love to see it mentioned in the wild.

tbh that creeps me out so much, like he was 16?!

The chances of an M-rated fic in a fandom is always higher when: -A series is well-known. -There is an attractive female character. -There is an attractive male character. -There are close friendships of any kind. -There are close familial relationships. -There are rivalries. -There are villains. -There are established canon relationships. -There are characters who enjoy being single. -There are characters who want to find a romantic partner. -There are humans. -There are non-human creatures and animals. -There are robots. -There is anything that is breathing. -There is anything that exists.

A fully grown mother of two writing a fanfiction about a sixteen year old.

@@macklyon7476 her poor children

@@macklyon7476 yet if a man did this about an underage girl who was famous, it would be just as creepy

she was 24 and married up when she wrote it... about 16 y/o Harry... so weird! @@macklyon7476

@@dogouchu4356 100% agreed.👍

As a horror story or a cautionary tale, it would work great. Just clean up the prose and add some detail and you're golden.

Remind of how that movie ‘the magic gift of the snowman’ would work better as a horror movie and I’m deathly AFRAID of horror in general

This is an issue I have. There is nothing wrong about writing about toxic relationships, while they're being treated as toxic and not smth to yearn for. The most who read and love these books are young girls who then believe abuse is okay and normal. It isn't!

@@sin3358 this. Some people just like reading about toxic relationships and I don't like this new mindset of everything having to be healthy. It doesn't even has to end with a breakup - 365 days or Grey is an obvious fantasy where you want a dominant guy, and reader knows that if something like that happened irl, it would be toxic. But it's weird to me that those writers try to pretend it's something else than a fantasy and describe it as akin to some great love story. It isn't.

I think it could work as a love story as well if it changed key elements on how the characters think about whats happening and change. There are enough young men who free themselves of toxic masculinity and it would really be interesting to see someone like Hardin mature and be a not shitty person anymore. But sadly, most writers of bad romance don't know how to write a creature more complicated then a sponge

While that may be true...I fear for Krimson's sanity

@@breezy3392 eh, he survived Onision and Empress Teresa, he'll live.

@@johnjohnson9073 well true😅 I hope he has a rest in between this series though

@@johnjohnson9073 true. He still survive after reading those painfully bad books

Fool's Gold. Crushed Fool's Gold.

My Immortal... I don't think I'll ever recover.

@@FilmGuy7000 kind of messy bun

@@FilmGuy7000 "I was wearing a black goffic dress."

@@FilmGuy7000 Have you seen Internet Historian's reading of it? I swear that royalty free music he plays during every clothing description will haunt me forever.

@@Skin_Man Oh, I have and it's glorious.

For fucking real tho

I can see it now if the dog could suddenly speak."Father why must you speak in such a way to me? But you do feed me so I will accept it for now but rest assured I will chew or urinate on something you hold dear in the future."

Im reading the book horseman by christina henry and its really really good one of her spooker ones but its definitely not a romance. The protagonist ben is an awful awful awful person shes a girl who rather sadly has been raised as a replacement for her dead farther not a spoiler hes dead before the story starts and Christina henry actively makes ben a horror child whos fourteen and the only reason she gets away with the way she behaves is cos shes a child still the idea of unhealthy behaviour and toxic people in books is good as long and I Repeat as long as the author makes the people reading awere that these are not good peope and not to atually look up or even like said characters it is atually really hard to like ben but she is growing and developing as a person though the story i guess it also helps that im a big fan of Christina henrys work and don't mind awful characters but i 1000% agree little girls i veiw anyone under 20 as a child should Not be exposed to the idea of fixing anyone its ok in books but real life should never have to go though those relationships with anyone sorry I ranted

i blame the popularity of this trope on 50 Shades mostly. not only does it perpetuate the idea that people who like BDSM are inherently broken but it also implies that a toxic and unwell man deserves a doting partner without improving on himself.

No person is supposed to be the therapist in the relationship

"I can fix him" "I can make him worse" well I can peg him.

Womanism is radioactive, and never ending. You have a better chance telling OF simps to stop paying.

Frighteningly common narcissistic fantasy sadly.

Even in the lovey-dovey Hallmark movies, I'm always rooting for the good-but-boring city boyfriend. No matter how rugged and common and hard-working and stunningly-handsome and down-to-earth and mild-mannered and rough-spoken and traditional and folksy and well-chiseled... Uh. What were we talking about?

Triply so due to the double standard of that kind of situation, that we see in these Hallmark movies, Meg Ryan films, Fireproof, etc... "Man cheats on woman? He's a horrible scumbag. Woman cheats on man? He just wasn't good enough for her."

A book from the perspective of a (soon-to-be) ex could be interesting. Like, it gets advertised as being about the "good girl/bad boy" couple, but when she breaks up with her ex we follow him instead The rest of the story is a bunch of people being like "omg, a man passionate about his career, clean-shaven, well-groomed, AND emotionally stable?? sign me up!" And the rest of the story is a wacky comedy of him missing the obvious hints that everyone is really into him, and they're all so focused getting him to notice them that they trip into a manhole or something.

@@ShayLaLaLooHoo book lovers by Emily Henry is kinda like the first part. except the ex is the cold, career oriented girlfriend who got dumped by 5 men who all choose the small town girl over her (It’s a romance not a comedy but it turns the hallmark trope on its head which is fun).

And then Noah gives Tessa the middle finger and shut the door

And Noah decides to leave Tessa cause I'm sorry as soon as I find out someone cheats on me I'm not giving them a second chance

I would have even accepted a night of reflection, Tessa thinking back to the way she's treated Noah (the leading and cheating, but also how she's gotten more emotionally and physically needy) and realizing that Noah was right: that the college people - Hardin especially - have been a negative influence on her. Adding the message that while it isn't a bad thing to go out for yourself and experience new things, not all change is good, and "finding yourself" may mean change as much as it could mean finding stronger, more personal reasons to stay the way you are. ... So much potential this book wasted by staying as Anna Todd's disturbing personal fantasy...

@@josstarfluff5052well yea but that doesn’t mean you can’t write a quality novel where a cheater learns and grows into a better person

@maddieb.4282 so you would give a cheater another chance right after you fi d out they cheated?

Can confirm!

His only thought is how much he hates baby talk lol.

I'm glad we got a Tuck break! As much as I love the cats, we see very little of Tuck and it wad a nice change :))

Who’s tuck?

@@aliomar2912 it's the doggo! It's in about half the way through the video

And the lesson after that we’ll warch romeo and juliet and discuss whether anyone predicted that they die at the end

The Old Man and the Sea. Did you expect most of this story to take place on a boat?

LOL

"Now I know all of you kids hate that Vader guy, but did you remember about Episode III ending ? Guess who Vader really is, come on !"

stephen kings it did you think the kids would go down into the sewers to fight the clown twice

imagine if that's what the book was about instead of romanticizing abusive relationships

@@lvndr9838that would be brilliant and an interesting topic to dive into

Thanks, I was looking for this! ^^

Funnily enough, 1D fits in 2 places. One Direction, and one dimensional

He mentions it's about 1D at the start of the vid?

@@AnnabelleG96 Yeah, he says it started as a One Direction fanfic.

Everytime i learn something about the 1D fandom craze i become more weirded out by directioners

That's a really good analysis on the whole thing. As a fellow avid reader, I never really thought about it like that before. Of course you can't just serial number file off a fanfic: good ones have something of value to say about their source material. Bad ones, the ones typically published as original fiction, contribute nothing to the conversation, and frequently give us an uncomfortable look into the author's psyche. Like this one!

Same

That is the best analysis I've read so far. Yes to all the points you've made. I'd scrolled past most of this, too. One thing I might add: Lots of stories have seggs scenes. (Censored, because Ytube stuff) I mean, the tag PWP isn't there without a reason. Lots of teenagers write down what they fantasize about. And with hormones raging and stuff they show in TV shows and on the internet - well, you get it, it's basically them being hørny and writing out their dreams. And since seggs sells... you publish those who have in it what most people search for. 🙄

_Good fanfiction CANNOT have its serial numbers field off because it is so deeply intertwined with the work it was based on._ ^This!

@@michanone the author was an adult woman at the time of posting the original after fanfic, no need to blame teen girls for her being weird.

I wouldn't fully trust the wiki if I were you. Not saying that they didn't divorce, but from what I researched, I found nothing saying that they divorced.

@@e.p_the_penguin It's true, it's on her IG

I did the exact same thing about 3/4ths of the way through the video I seriously couldn’t believe they were still married.

Divorce is all well and good, but does Harry Styles have a restraining order on her?

@@theantithesis1 I sincerely doubt it though it would be kinda funny if it was true

These are also fundamentally too low, more like 60k vs 24k

@@christinamansen8636exactly! $8k is about what I paid for credit hours only in 2002.

Much too low.

Meanwhile my state pays me for being a university student..

USA: I have to pay like, 40k on average per year! Israel and other middle eastern countries: what? I only have to pay averagely 16k annually! (although that's still a lot for average income) Ex-Soviet Countries: well I only pay about 8--10k on average! (still a bit much when comparing to average income, especially in rural regions) Scandinavia, Germanic countries, Greece and Estonia: wait, you guys have to pay?

definitely can’t say I blame you…😒

Most loyal woman

People can read a trashy stories about bad relationships without actually wanting one. It’s like saying anyone who plays GTA actually wants to kill people.

Doubt this book is being purchased by young women.

Honestly you shouldn't. It doesn't take too many braincells to see how much of a douche Hardin is because we're outsiders. Seeking out toxic partners usually stems from much deeper rooted issues

And people want to question divorce rates lol

Oh my god, Anna Todd is ripping off Full Metal Panic.

I write fanfiction right now, and I do all of it on my phone- it’s in a google document though, so I think it’s better than the wattpad site? I’ve never used wattpad though, so no clue.

Is it weird I find that part about her writing it in the Wattpad app on her phone weirdly inspiring? Like it keeps coming up in my brain as something I can actually DO. Not necessarily about the wattpad part, but the whole novel on a phone part.

interesting... considering she was married to a soldier...

OMG I remember seeing it in a bookstore, I recognized the author and read the summary. Yes he is a war veteran with PTSD. I thought about buyig it to se what a train wreck that would be, but I didnt for some reason ( I think I didn't have the money).

She was a creep and a shitty wife apparently. "While my husband's risking his life I, a 20 something woman will write bad porn where my self insert bangs an underage teen boy who I'll portray as an abusive control freak who slept with my self insert to win a bet."

Im sorry , but what the actual fu_?!??!!

Man, these romances really DO all find their way back to Twilight somehow…

Oh yeah, it's all coming together

It's amazing how misunderstood Wurthering Heights is by third-rate romance novelists. Bronte wrote a proto-psychological thriller novel. All these writers are under the impression that it's a romance novel and that Heathcliff is a romantic hero. Heathcliff is actually a serious psychologically damaged man who physically abuses his wife and tortures the family of man who married his childhood sweetheart.

It all comes back to twilight

​@@gailcbullsounds like a good read!

Exactly! Especially when you don't have class every day. How are you supposed to cover a classic in two or three lectures?

They spend far more than that analyzing some classic films… anyone able to do that with a book is either skipping major talking points on purpose or should not be teaching.

And you do need that background to enjoy Austen.

@@mercycunningham2813 I concur, no amount of knowledge I glean on Regency era society (a subject that, granted, doesn’t really interest me in the first place) has made me enjoy Austen. I just cannot, and I’m choosing to blame it on my lack of appropriate references.

Not literature but a similar question came up when I studied desgin. Our lecturer put up a photo of Philip Starks "Hot Berta" kettle and simply asked "what's wrong with it." The teachers almost never asked if anyone liked or disliked something. What ever you make anyone else in the wider world will not think about if the maker likes or dislikes it.

Did they skip several part of.... oh I don't know, all the abuse Joker throw at her. Or more story of Harley gained her "independence"?

@@rizkyanandita8227 I guess they all saw that episode where Harley catches Batman all by herself using one of the jokers thrown out ideas and she tells him about it so he comes throws her out a window several stories high and then later sends her a bouquet of flowers while she’s in the hospital with a note that says sorry and went aww see he cares

Somethingsomethingbondrewdisbestdadsomething

@@galvanizeddreamer2051 Nobody actually believes Bondrewd is any kind of good, that's just a huge meme.

I feel like so much 'enemies to lovers' fiction does this. Instead of actually giving us a reason they're enemies where we can understand both sides (even if we agree with one more) it's just like "this guy's a complete cunt to me. But he is hot so..."

Also, Darcy had testimonies of his friends and estate servants telling Elizabeth he was a good guy (as I recall, been a while since I read P&P) to give her some reason to keep after him. But pretty much nobody has anything good to say about Hardon, at least nothing that being around him for more than 2 minutes doesn't contradict. This is just downright toxic...

and of course i'm getting botted. speaking of which, how did the bots even get to youtube, i could swear that they weren't here for years and magically mass-manifested somewhere between 2019-2020.

Why Todd's, James & Meyer's editors allowed these shit novels to be published is beyond me they need to either be fired or see a shrink.

and they are usually, if not mostly, not in wattpad

@@losaicos fr, after i left wattpad i dont think i've ever read a good fanfiction that was not on ao3

How bout y’all stop writing fanfic about real people lol?

She's read the Wikipedia page

@@NeapolitanApe Uncyclopedia page.

@@NeapolitanApe She overheard some people talking about the movie across from her at a cafe lol.

i was literally about to comment that what the fuck

Why is RU-vid telling me that this comment was posted 3 hours ago but the video was posted 2 hours ago

@@kinglod2312 I think he has a patron that gives people early access to the video

*snore-snorts* I'm awake!

Real

Weird. Thanks for confirming this either way.

If somebody decided to have a one-night stand in my room, I'd expect them to clean up whatever mess they make and never do it again (and beat the sh*t out of them if they don't).

Out of sheer and genuine curiosity, do people hook up in another person’s room because the communal space is already occupied? Or is it just like a spontaneous “we need to hook up and any room will do” kinda thing?

@@FGSFDS I would also like to know

Genuine question, why join a frat?

And addendum: Remember books like THIS get published

That feels good to know. It will motivate me to do the best I can. Don’t want my debut book ending up with Rainbow Tags about to be crucified by Krim, lol!

Part of me honestly desires to be reviled and acknowledged more than simply forgotten. For as bad as these books are, they are being talked about. They are being criticized, panned, ridiculed... But talked about nonetheless. The other part of me (the bigger, more rational part) would rather be forgotten than mercilessly mocked, so I am ok with that. Besides, to write something THAT bad requires an effort I am not willing to put in, because this level of awfulness doesn't come naturally.

@@renard6012 unless you’re Todd.

Boy do I try...

Yes. That is exactly what I was going for. It wasn't just my fiance and dog barging in on me, lol.

@@KrimsonRogue Wait, you’re engaged? Congratulations!

I was doing my makeup and simultaneously listening to the analysis but as soon as I realized there was a mental health dog intermission, I literally dropped my brush and walked over to my phone to see it.

@@KrimsonRogue congratulations 😊

@@TheGardiner He mentioned that quite a while ago, I'm pretty sure. He's mentioned his girlfriend numerous times, and I'm pretty sure he even made a community post announcing the engagement

Feel like thats not a very high bar given how trash Tessa is.

Tbh I'm more Team Landon...if Tessa were a decent person. She goes to college and discovers that she doesn't like Noah, so she experiments with Hardin and finds that it's awful and draining. Imagine if she realized that and decided to focus on making friends, and from there she gets genuine feelings for the good guy who sits by her and shares her interests. Also Hardin would be forced to watch Tessa and Landon live happily in love while he stays miserable forever 😊

​@@ShayLaLaLooHoo Now _THAT_ is a good ending!

I think it's movie portrayals of Mr. Darcy that have people under the impression he's a broody bad boy... But I could be wrong and people could just be superficial. XD

@@JInuOneSix I like the fact that Elizabeth is such an unreliable narrator that on my first read, I completely agreed with her that he was an asshole... until the revelation of his feelings and history. My second read was much quicker and that's when I picked up on all the signs that Darcy was the better guy from the very beginning. On my third read, I concluded that this man just sucks with people. I'm not in love with Darcy because that's weird but I do like his character arc. Most male characters I've read lately, only change when they're forced to and they're usually immediately rewarded. Darcy chose to change himself thinking that he'd never see Elizabeth again and then being a shocked mess when she showed up at his house. Abs are hot but self-improvement is hotter

@@snowpanther7076 That's some facts there.

I believe you totally can read it in two days but that shouldn't be the class assignment deadline lol

@@snowpanther7076 From someone who only occasionally reads romance, Darcy's character arc is god-tier and other male leads are at the ground. And I'll take no criticism on that.

Also, the idea of trying to keep up appearances despite not having the financial means to do so isn’t as uncommon as you might think. Problem is, we don’t see how this kind of lifestyle is negatively affecting the family.

I was reading a romance novel the other day (Harlequin Romance) and male love interest had like a big obsession with money and being wealthy, and you learn that “money was always tight” in the family and that’s what ruined his parents’ marriage. But you learn over time that the family wasn’t poor like starving, but the mom wanted a lifestyle of pure luxury, and the dad just couldn’t provide for that. “Money was tight” because they weren’t in that desired Uber-rich economic status. Another romance book I read a while back involved the main girl living like in a trailer life with her mom and generally having a rough time financially, but when she’s about to graduate from college she finds out that her grandparents had been supporting her financially, but her mom used all the money meant to support them to pay for an ongoing investigation (missing relative), and that becomes like a point of conflict. “Money is tight” because of the mom’s actions. I realize that both book involved the mom spending the money, but those were the best examples that came to mind.

@@KlutzyNinjaKitty Yep. Not sure how you got that I feel it's a rare thing?

@@wizmo2216 interesting! I was trying to come up with better versions of the book, haha. My wording was really vague at the end.

My take was that money could have always been tight because the mom was irrepsonsable with money and always spending it on fancy things for herself. But clearly the author didn't think about that.

I found an interview that I'll be using in Part 2 that give credence to that idea. That is in spite of so many lines I can pull that shows Tessa thinking Hardin is so romantic and sweet.

Isn't it scary what the popularity of this and the genre in general says about how widespread and normalised the abuse of young girls are? 😢😢

I was definitely thinking the same thing, regarding this. thankfully, not all of them are like that.

What an ass, glad you got out of this mess !

Tbf ao3 was established in 2009, the same year harry styles debuted on X-factor, so it would've been pretty barebones at the time of her writing while wattpad had been up for 2 years already. Ao3 is incredible though, takes a bit to get used to but navigating wattpad is a nightmare in comparison.

She started writing the series in 2013, and AO3 reached a million works in February 2014. And, according to wikipedia, there were works for 14,353 fandoms at that time. So she could’ve checked. AO3’s filtering system is one of the things that makes it the best fanfiction site. Along with the archive warnings.

a03 is pretty great imo, i both read and write fanfiction on there. of course, "great" can go both ways. you can either find truly well-meaning and excellent work, or on the opposite spectrum, the weirdest and greatly uncomfortable shit ever but what else should we expect 😂

I agree, it's why I dont obsess over celebrities. it feels gross.

Yeah. A character from a tv show or the like is one thing, but it just feels a little wrong to write something like this about a real person.

Like I don't blame her for not being very thorough back when she was rapid-firing out the original on wattpad. But it boggles my mind that this got past an editor (probably at the expense of some poor sod's genuinely good manuscript) and no one even bothered to bring up that THIS TEACHER'S ENTIRE LESSON WAS JUST SHIPPING THE COUPLE WITH ABSOLUTELY ZERO IRONY OR SATIRE.

I’ll admit to only having seen the Kiera Knightly movie once years ago, but even I clocked how backwards that whole discussion was

Being forced into speaking in haiku sounds hilarious. That would have made for an entertaining game, lol.

​@@KrimsonRogue Oh it was!! It was hard but after a while it almost felt second nature because my turn just kept not coming up! Haha! But then I was like "Help me, please help me! I am stuck on this pattern. Did you all forget!?"

Reminds me of that story where someone's dare was to go home. Be as innocently malicious as possible for the funniest results. I was once dared to dry scoop a thing of blue lemonade powder and i was coughing so much that it snorted through my nose and all water tasted like blue lemonade for the next two days, it was great.

Here's the thing. In this scenario where tessa is just a named self insert and Hardin is the love interest. Regardless of diagetic consent. There is still consent. By the reader. The reader willingly reading this story is, at least in the context of how this was originally written, giving consent to indulge in these scenarios that in real life are wrong and deeply traumatizing but in the safe space of fiction are a kink people can enjoy.

@@EllaAngeli I'm not talking about the consent of the reader or a reader's kink. That's irrelevent. I'm talking about the contents of the story and the character's actions and motivations. Hardin, as a character, does not understand consent and is constantly aggressive with Tessa, and it's weird and unpleasant to read about. If this is a kink to certain readers, that's fine, but that's not my overall point here. My point is that Hardin is a rapey, creepy, abusive character whom we're supposed to love because he's the love interest for five books or however many there are, except he's just an awful character who is very poorly written. If readers want to explore something like consentual non-consent in fiction (even though that's not what was happening in this book), there are better books to read it in that are leagues better and less offensive than After, I'm sure.

@@zombieedrea oh no definitely, I was more just musing, I don't defend this as a book, especially since it doesn't have tags like it would on ao3. It's a garbage book with harmful messages, no argument from me.

That sort of vulnerability can be a turn on, but it's on both parties not to take advantage of that, and it's definitely not all there is to attraction

And if written correctly, it would be clear from the start if the character was interested or not. I seldom write in my characters asking for a kiss, with a few notable exceptions, but it's clear from the start the two are interested.

thats so sad

Huh. That might actually work to salvage some of Hardin's likeability as a character! You'd still have to do a lot of work to make me not want to stab him twenty times over, but it's definitely something I can see in a better written novel. Much better than the moment we actually got!

Not to mention, with the addition of poor Noah, teaching said target audience that relationships with said violent, illicit-substance addicts with sociopathic tendencies are preferable over stable and loving, even if not the most exciting, relationships... setting up quite a few horrible futures there. Though on a slightly lighter note, as horrible as they were, we can give Twilight and 365 Days similar passes: Meeting a forever-teenage vampire at your local high school? Not gonna happen. Some filthy rich mob/mafia boss who wants to abduct you in order to wife you? Similar odds to the 50 Shades scenario. After (and we can probably add November 9 too)? Very likely to happen, thus making the plot very discomforting to think about...

@@insulttothehumanrace3807 hey, you’re absolutely right!👍

It's the ultimate what not to do workshop!

Honesty, after all that Greg has quintessentially done…someone like him honestly really does deserve that sort exceptionally harsh type of constructive chewing out.😏

Fangirls and fanfics can be wild af, they would create alternative universes (AU's) or different types of personalities with an exclamation mark (Ex: Dark! Character, Fluffy! Character, etc) of their favourite member of a boyband or fictional character like a psycho because of the curiosity from "what if?" scenery. And also because of inexperience, teen girls didn't have a boyfriend or a similar situation (like a abusive friendship) to know how bad it was. And lastly I would say they love contrast "Is it pretty how I look so innocent with this bad boy who dress like a punk and how clashing we are? :DDD". But what I'm worried about is that Anna Todd was 24 in 2013 and married, not 16 and Harry Styles was 19 at the time. "Guys, it's not disturbing to fantasize a man younger than me, who entire gimmick is to look like a teen as a abusive alcoholic :)))))" TDLR; Girl's imagination can be weird, inexperience and looking pretty also can play a factor in their fantasies and Anna Todd is a weirdo

Oh my god you're right

I agree. It would not only make Tessa seem less shitty as a person, but also have their dynamic add up a lot more. What kinda boyfriend tattles to his girlfriend's mom about her daughter going to a house party?

@@sorcerersapprentice IKR...and it'd make more sense with the dynamic with the mom too. I mean this one time she drove over to the Uni/Collage, to like yell at Tessa for hanging out with "wrong crowd" and "going to party" or whatever and it was very early in the morning...who on earth takes their kid's boyfriend for that kind of confrontation? and this early too? as Noah's mom I'd be asking this woman why the hell she needs my son to be there for that. It'd make sense if he was her own son tho. She's s control freak so she takes her kid with her to keep an eye on him too or he wants to come bc sibling stuff.

@@ninavale. That too. Like you said, if I was Noah's mom, I would have some very choice words with Tessa's mom after she pulled that. But if Noah was her brother, then she could've just did that, because she wants to keep an eye on him like a helicopter parent.

You know it's telling that anyone I watched review the movie thought he was her brother at first.

noah probably was a younger brother at first but the author decided for some reason it would be better to make him the bf no idea if true but makes some sense actually

That growl sounded more playful to me than irritated. He might associate Krimson's baby speak with playtime and he's just hyping himself up for some fun with dad. Either could be the case, really.

Considering The Lost Metal's upcoming release... it wouldn't be a horrible idea... I'd kill a man to see him talk about Mistborn, honestly.

Honestly, that's not a bad idea. Talking about a good book for once would probably do wonders for his mental health.

Please talk about The Expanse for an hour, that would be heaven.

Or better yet, either sing praises to a terrible book, or bash a well-known, good book that Krim actually likes.

Maybe even a good romance?!

She watched the zombie version lol.

@@ultimatetrashboy419 I can see that

Pride and Prejudice is a masterpiece of a novel, honestly!

@@Acemethyst Truth, i’ve been reading it for the very first time this week and I love it

@@Acemethyst And Elizabeth is a snarking queen.

Are your friends okay

the trauma of that chapter must haunt your dreams.

It's also a dangerous thing to believe in real life that's gotten people hurt and killed. You can't change a bad person into a good one with love.

People for some reason like to make Harry a genuinely bad person. At least on Wattpad. I've read a few fanfics where he was a cheater and at least one where he was a r*pist. And the main character still ended up with him.

@@Saphia_ Jesus!😱

That's because the original fanfic this is based on was a "dark" Harry Styles story. One trope in the One Direction fandom back in the day enjoyed reimagining the boys in wild and outlandish scenarios like knights or dragon riders. One of the popular alternative versions was Harry Styles as an emo/punk. It's the same reason why those punk Harry Style edits were popular in the early 2010s. That's part of the reason why the One Direction fandom HATED this when it came out. Most people know they aren't actually like that IRL, but like to imagine the absurdity of those wild scenarios anyways. When it crosses too much into IRL ones and make the actual person out to be an asshole when they're not like this fic, then it comes...questionable, to say the least.

@@sorcerersapprentice OK, Harry Styles as a dragon rider sounds hilarious and awesome.

@@everlastingdragon4520 what After should have been, Harriet of the Fellowship of the One Pathway, mets a young girl trying to escape her home while training a baby dragon into its full glory..... To dance and sing!

I can honestly relate to that! Fanfics and fanart are ways for people to play however they want like they’re in a sandbox, so using real people in this context is super weird. You don’t ever want the real people you based some of this stuff in to see what other people are making-it can get really freaky.

That's why I picture them as animations in my head. I can never read real-person fiction for the very same reason as you.

@my_girl_seraphine5294 That's a great way to compartmentalize. My imagination functions a little too hyper-realistically to achieve that (I sometimes get confused about whether something is actually canonical or from a fic because I have such a strong memory of seeing/hearing it happen, lol). That's why I am so diligent about not thinking about the actors. I was explaining to a friend that I don't start to experience sexual desire for a person until I get to know them very well. In fact, there's no real-life person I would currently want to have sex with, even though my general drive is actually very high. They said, "Yeah right, dude, like you wouldn't climb [actor's name] like a tree if you had the chance." I told them I hoped I wouldn't, and that I try my hardest to forget [actor's name] is a real person because I am attracted to the character, not him. It would be an absolutely terrible idea to ruin my compartmentalization and transfer that attraction onto an actual person with whom I wouldn't otherwise want to be intimate. They seemed like they finally believed me but still seemed pretty weirded-out by it, lmao Edit: Also, I can't handle imagining myself inserted into fiction. I imagine myself as one of the characters. Reader POV fics make me want to cringe into non-existence 😂

Not to mention that most literature teachers agree on "War and Peace" being made for people above the age of 30, who have a baggage of life experience and can truly appreciate what the book is about While I do not agree that "War and Peace" has anything of true value or "genius" in general, it is ridiculous that they force it upon 16 year olds, who, by teachers' own admissions, lack mental maturity to properly comprehend this book, not to mention breezing through it in a month with 2 classes per week (that's how much we had) Truly unfathomable to me why people in the education system think it's a good idea in any way, shape, or form, just shows their owl lack of understanding of literature "Let's just shove it down kids' throats, because it's a classic!!!"

@@credencenoel4845 and the fact that every single novel that author (Leo Tolstoy) wrote has a Jesus analogue in it. And that you have to know both Russian (old Russian - there is a slight difference in the tone of Russian used by Tolstoy and what is spoken in Moscow today, personally, St. Peterburg is a better city than Moscow) and French to actually understand a lot of it because the translations do not give why certain turns of phrases would be considered humorous or tragic in a English-speaking context.

​@@peterwindhorst5775 As a native russian myself, I wasn't much bothered by the old Russian speech (although I do find it rather stunted and difficult to comprehend at times, Tolstoy's language in general doesn't make it any better, 4 pages of an oak description are maddening), but as soon as I saw an entire page written in French I was just done, I didn't read any further But I can offer an explanation to both christian parallels and the French So, at the time when it was written, French language was considered as a form of "elite speech" among russian nobility, Russian was for peasants, and French was for the elite, so all people of status tried to show off their knowledge of French, so that all other people would instantly think of them as well educated and cultured Tolstoy was a dvoryanin from a renowned duke branch, and also, evident by his notes and diaries of his wife, had a gigantic ego, thinking about himself as of second Christ or something similar, so of course he wanted to show off his knowledge of such a fine language to people, so only true intellectuals who could truly comprehend his genius could even attempt to read his book And as to christian stuff and parallels to god and Jesus - as I said he thought of himself as of some messiah in the first place, he also was extremely religious, the kind of religious who uses Bible to excuse their awful behavior, again, evidently from the diaries of his wife and his own notes even; Tolstoy was an awful, awful man, toxic in every way possible, being extremely misogynistic, abusive, and a serial r@p1st by his own admission So religious, in fact, that he wrote multiple religious texts, and was greatly offended when someone tried to talk with him about "War and Peace" or other works, because he himself considered them utter garbage not worthy of any attention, and wanted people to read his religious texts instead I assume he started off with just Jesus parallels in his older works, decided that the plot takes away too much attention from it and wrote straight up about Jesus instead It was long, but I hope it was at least somewhat entertaining and educational хД P.s. Also, as a person who constantly hears that "oh, St. Petersburg is so much better than Moscow!" from almost everyone from my fellow russians to people from other countries - it got so old so quick, tbh I understand that Peter (as we call it for short) is our cultural center and what not, but I honestly think people's fascination with it is a bit too extreme (tho maybe it's just from me hearing about it so much)

I mean the campus is well sized but I wouldn’t call it large, 😜 at least in comparison to the udubs and wazzus of the world And some of the dorms do have private showers , or at least shared between 3-4 people instead of the whole floor. I think u stayed in the bassetties lol

@@mystiohate6590 I said it was very big not large lol. I will agree with you that it's not the size of either Udub or Wazzu. I stayed in a few different dorms and I'll be damned if I can remember which ones. I do know there were nicer dorms but either they were rented out to the muckity mucks or we just never utilized them.

The movie is Shop around the corner !! Funniest movie i ever caught at the cinema

Eh? I mean, with fanfic, good ones at least, you also need to consider who makes sense in what role. Especially because they aren’t your original characters. Someone can put a lot of effort and thought into fanfics too.

@@wannabehistorian371 That's true and I do tend to put a good amount of effort into my fanfics also. I don't like to put out stuff I know isn't good work. But it's just different to how I'd write my original fiction in terms of the effort and care I put into each

This brings a new meaning to “stop and smell the roses”

I was thinking that too

*whoosh* 😒 oh sorry Anna Todd, that was your joke going over 90% of people's heads. I could come up with way slicker lines for "I like banging virgins" without half trying. 'What do you like to do?' 'Oh me? I really love tutoring... my specialty is anatomy class'

Haven't read or watched this series at all, other than reviews, but flowers could reference, clumsily, marijuana 'bud'.

@@araneljones I’m inclined to think he meant virgins based on the “themes” of virginity and sexuality in this book

Tuck is the hero we needed