Obi-Wan: It's over, Drallig! I have the high ground! Drallig: You underestimate the power of a Battlemaster! Obi-Wan: Don't try it. Drallig: If I killed Vader, I could defeat you! (Jumps and kills Obi-Wan) You called me the troll, and yet I taught you how to be a troll!
Thank you for including Swtor. It's really nice to see someone mention the Hero of Tython. If you include the Kotet and Kotfe expansion, where he duels both Arcann and Vaylin (literally the children of emperor Valkorion/Vitiate), you just gotta admit that this guy was one of the greatest force users and fighter of his era.
Technically the character is only referred to as The Commander due to any class being able to be the centre of the story (although I feel it's best played as Jedi Knight or Sith Warrior given their previous experience with Vitiate, also I think that Sith Inquisitor is good for romancing Lana if you romanced companion characters in the main story as Sith Warrior gets Vette back in the first expansion and as of Onslaught, I think Jedi Knight has their full crew back).
Jedi Spartan 38 exactly. I think that the Jedi Knight works best in this regard due to his past rivalry with Vitiate. It makes for a cool dynamic when the emperor is inside your head. It also makes your victory feel more earned when you beat him at the end. Not to mention the Kira reunion is amazing!
@@vortexflash4944 yeah, the only one who comes close is the Sith Warrior due to them becoming the Emperor's Wrath (just without immortality) with Vitiate saying that they were still special to him when Revan was a dumbass and resurrected him. Also I think it would have been cool if KOTFE had an option of joining Valkorian as his Wrath as the Sith Warrior with the line being something like: "I will serve you, but as your Wrath, not as your voice." seeing as I assume Valkorian would have possessed the Outlander/Commander if Arrcan hadn't betrayed him in the option to join him.
Ooh, I'd love to see a ranking of the Rule of Two Sith, or the top ten Sith in general (mainly because all the talk about Caedus in this vid makes me wanna see him acknowledged at and near the top, respectively)
A Bannite Sith ranking could be either very interesting, or tedious depending on how one interprets it. The end goal of the Rule of 2 to accumulate enough talent and power so, the end product of the line would be able to take out the Jedi. Using Bannite scaling the list becomes just a simple game of A>B>C. However, there does seem to be other factors to consider such as post-ROTJ Bannite sith, secret sith apprentices, and while the increase in power appeared to be successful, differently specialized abilities can alter the placement.
I'll definitely do a Sith Ranking video at some point, its just a matter laying down the structure. Sometime I consider splitting it up into multiple lists based on era or faction, other times I think about just bundling them up into 1 list. I'll figure it out eventually.
EvanNova95 I think eras would be a good way to split them, but then again some Sith have scaling to Sith from previous eras. Like Sidious being called the strongest Sith of all time (up to that point), and Caedus being comparable to Grand Master Luke, who Jaina stated was over 4x stronger than Sidious during Legacy of the Force. Maybe you could do eras first, and then at the end have an overall list.
EvanNova95 even with the vast content in legends, would there be enough to split it into different eras like ancient sith, old republic sith, and so on and so forth??? Not to say there aren’t enough characters to look at, far from it actually, but it’s more so the case would they have enough material to them like say darth Malgus or even to low ball it lord vindican or would they be much like Tulak horde or darth tenebrous, known characters but little to no detail on how powerful they truly are or how capable they were in battle.
@@heirofcaedus7070 caedus should be near the top as he was confirmed more powerful than vader and thou it would be a tough fight I believe could also beat sidious in a one on one fight. Caedus excelled at raw force power and a prodigy at saber dueling. He would duel sidious to at least a draw and his advanced and unique force techniques I think will be able to punch through sidious defenses and kill him. Caedus battle tactics revolve around the unorthodox to catch his opponents off guard and go for the kill with this power like how Kyle and mara were defeated by. I would rank in order Vitiate, Krayt Caedus, Sidious, Vader respectively
21:05 One thing I'd like to point out, Tol Braga falling to the Dark Side was his own fault for believing that 4 - 5 Jedi could redeem the Sith Emperor even though: A) Vitiate was able to drain the life on entire planets. B) Like Palpatine, he was an embodiment of the Dark Side. C) Also like Palpatine, Vitiate was an eldritch abomination in 'human' form.
Not to mention he was existing in multiple bodies while independently controlling two. AKA his hands, Valkorion and the body you fight during Jedi Knight story. Also that voss during Sith Warrior story. Don't think we've ever seen his power when he was whole actually ._. Though I'd argue Valkorion held the majority of Vitiate's power.
@@k1l3r10 yeah, good point. Also I assume that something happened to the Chapter 2 Voice after capturing the Jedi as Vitiate goes from him to that Voss character which he orders his Wrath to kill then he comes back in whatever body the Hero of Tython kills.
@@Jedi_Spartan Considering we never see the Voice's face at the end of the JK's Chapter 2, i always assumed that this Voice was the Voss the SW has to kill on Voss and that after that Vitiate has to change for the human Voice the JK faces on Dromund Kaas. The Voss Voice being trapped could also explain how the JK was able to break free if Vitiate was weakened at that time
Jedi Spartan 38 in an unpublished Legends centered lore novella, its implied "Vitiate" could have been the was actually an ancient demonic entity that originated from Otherspace. It started created chaos in the galaxy so it's dark gods could be resurrected and soil the creation of the departed Celestials...
Considering kao cen darach took on two sith lords at the same time, killed one nd almost did the other if it weren't for convenience, i thnk he should be higher up the list
Darach didn’t kill Vindican, Malgus did. From what’s known about the Sith Pureblood race, it’s very likely that Vindican would have survived and recovered had he been provided proper medical supplies.
Hoth has zero business being over him, or even at 4. Top 5 at MOST. Kao is 3 after Kyle and The Hero of Tython (I was gonna shorten it to THOT, but realized that that wouldn't be a good idea).
If you consider the fact that the hero of tython is the outlander, then by the third galactic war he's definitely the strongest battlemaster the order ever had in history.
@@dazdavis7896 He has a chance to be. It's just not confirmed. That's what I'm talking about and if he is the Outlander, he outclasses everyone here :)
@@filip_1203 how do you figure Lmao. I agree he should be number 1 regardless. But how in any universe would he be the outlander. The alliance commander isn’t even a Jedi dude.
@@AntdaGreat But how though…. No, it does not. They’re 2 completely different characters; “the outlander/alliance commander” is literally not even a Jedi dude. He’s probably not even force sensitive at all. While the Hero of Tython was the most powerful battlemaster-one of the most powerful Jedi period-in the order’s history. How in any way does it make the most sense story-wise.. How??? Their storylines are completely separate.
1:58 *June Serous; Vanilla flavor* 4:02 *Skarch Vaunk; Mastery of arts* 6:03 *Cin Drallig; The troll* 9:24 *Kam Solusar; New Jedi order* 11:52 *Kao can Darach; Baseline Battlemaster* 15:18 *Lord Hoth; Comfort in combat* 19:31 *The Hero of Typhon; Rad RPG guy* 22:22 *Kyle Katarn; THE Battlemaster* 29:46 _The end of an epic vidoe, may the force be with you all!_
So... how about Kam Solusar vs Kao Cen-Darach? Kam might take it but I think it'd still be a pretty solid versus. Of course there's always Saba Sebatyne vs Darth Wyrlokk III or Ulic Qel-Droma vs Corran Horn, those matches I've been dying to see for years. I think Greyjedi's rebuttal of Hoth vs Bane pretty much said all it needed to say about that matchup, but I'm glad you took the criticisms within that video to heart.
When you were talking about Cin I was like “ep3 video game him was freaking hard no way he should be low on this list” then you mentioned him 😂 sometimes I forget video game cin isn’t canon haha
Something that should be taken into account when it comes to Derach is that Korriban can act as a battery for the sith. So while Derach was pushing his limits, Malgus had a power source to draw on. Basically Derach had a pair of AAs while Malgus had at least a car battery.
In my strongiest view Cin Dralliq I see his lapse in lightsaber feats is due to the times between the Battle of Rusaan in the Darth Bane trilogy to the events of the films where there were no other lightsaber foes to fight since Darth Bane and Zannah were the only Sith alive and in hiding. This tells me that the jedi become complacent feeling the didn't need to focus on lightsaber among other force weilders since he believe the Sith were fully destroyed. So Cin Dralliq is the result of Jedi lightersaber combat skills gone rusty.
Which is kind of false when the strongest people to wield to use lightsaber forms where mostly Jedi in the Clone wars for example Anakin is the greatest Djem So wielder up until Luke and Yoda was the greatest Ataru duelist and Obi-wan for Soresu as well
@@397llederson6 I think he means more so cin drallig, like while his knowledge was capable his skills....could've been better, unless we include video game cin drallig.
One thing I noticed about Cin Dralig operation nightfall fight is that, He loses to Vader using a one-handed grip, while a Slightly-green Luke skywalker eventually forced Vader into a two-handed grip during their duel in ESB.
Here's my Sith Lord Ranking List (Canon): 1. Darth Sidious (was a Force Lightning Demigod) 2. Darth Vader (80% as powerful as Sidious) 3. Darth Revan (embraced both Light and Dark Sides) 4. Darth Plagueis (created life) 5. Darth Bane (founder of the Rule of Two) 6. Count Dooku (best duelist of his age) 7. Darth Malgus (led the sacking of Coruscant) 8. Darth Zannah (a powerful Sith witch) 9. Darth Maul (survived being cut in half by Obi-Wan) 10. Darth Malak (almost conquered the Galaxy) 11. Darth Andeddu (discovered essence transfer) 12. Darth Traya (Lord of Betrayal) 13. Darth Sion (Lord of Pain) 14. Darth Nihilus (Lord of Hunger) 15. Darth Desolous (killed 20,000 Jedi) 16. Darth Angral (was not the best tactician and was easily killed by the Hero of Tython) 17. Darth Tenebrous (one of the weakest Sith Lords in martial arts abilities, but was a mad scientist) 18. Darth Tanis (built the temple on Malachor V) 19. Darth Phobos (the most obscure, and thus, the weakest Sith Lord)
I think it is worth mentioning that aside from Caedus being wounded he battled a group of jedi,, not Katarn 1v1. It is implied that Katarn would have lost a leg near immediately if one of his comrades did not intercept the attack. Considering that in the game Anakin bested Mace Windu, despite Vapaad being useful exactly against opponents like Anakin, I think video-game Cin Draellig is significantly above Hoth.
True, but like you said Katarn had allies in that fight. We can speculate that because he had comrades to cover for him he was willing to use more risky moves that he wouldn't have tried had it been 1v1. That is, if it had been a 1v1, Katarn wouldn't have lost a leg because he wouldn't have thrown that kick to begin with.
I always (for over 20 years now - just before The Phantom Menace was in Theaters) thought that Sequel Trilogy would be about NJO with probability that Main Character would either be Katarn or that he and Luke would be Mentor Characters to new MC. Basically a bit like Jaden Korr.
I've unsuscribed to so many darn Star Wars youtube chanels and what not just because they only focus on the Disney-politicial-bullshit Star Wars. I'm super glad to see that my favourite Star Wars content-maker isn't one of them!
While I'm with the majority about Hoth Vs Bane I do agree with Hoth's placement on this list I just wish we got more on the character it really was a shame they never explored him more he was a great character
I'm definitely in the camp of people that thought the Hoth vs Bane video was extremely misleading but I totally agree Hoth is one of those figures that deserved more exploration
Also, were I possessed of a good mic I would do Desann. But alas, I do not. I think a good match for him would be either Inquisitor Jerec (though I think Jerec might win that one) or Asajj Ventress (Desann could stand to win that). Actually, the Jerec one sounds more interesting. I don't think Ventress could take Desann. Especially if he could stand toe-to-toe with early Grandmaster Luke.
@@austinkersey2445 I like to pair light with dark. For thematic reasons. I was thinking Lucien Draay vs Desann. I'm been doing a long form start wars podcast and we've done some versus. The Raptor with a Saber is definitely something I want to cover.
I love that Cin Drallig is based on the real person who made the star wars coreos, Nic Gillard. His name is an acronyme to his real name and Cin is played by Nic in ROTS. I didn’t even noticed it at first but it’s a cool detail
Good list. I knew Kyle Katarn would be number one. Katarn is just a monster. He's easily one of my favorite Legends characters. I am looking forward to your next video.
What are the odds you make a three on three verses video, Clone Wars Council members v The NJO Council members?? Also, Katarn is my favorite Starwars character all-around!
@@thedude3065 He didn't even formally train for a year. Luke trained under Yoda for less than three weeks, and Obi-Wan trained him for only two days! How did he work for his power then?
Going into this I see 1. Kyle 2. Darach (could see him being one, but lets be honest you really like Kyle) 3. Hoth 4. Cin. (No fair with that mystery one, thoguh I guess it means we don't even have a pic, so put that one at five.)
@Wes Bradley-Taubner This is NOT my power ranking. This is a list of my favorite battlemasters, and I'm talking about Cin Drallig including his incarnation in the ROTS video game.
@Wes Bradley-Taubner But if you're talking about power, then here are my top five: 1. Kyle Katarn 2. Hero of Tython 3. Lord Hoth 4. Kao Cen Derach 5. Cin Drallig.
I have allways really liked Kam Solusar. He one of Lukes very oldest students and jedi peers, and although he did not rise to greatness like Kyle or later Jaina, he was a solid foundation rock, that helped Luke out a lot.
The Dark Jedi Desann needs to be in a VS video at some point Excellent work Evan, I like the videos like this because it brings up to characters that I am either haven't heard of or brings their abilities in light
EvanNova95 Great video man. I remember in another versus video (i think it was with Plagueis) that you reference Treya's line about the new sith being essentially babies compared to the sith of old. I'd personally love to see a video where you breakdown the feats of both generations to rebuke Treya's line.
I couldn't help but chuckle a bit whenever you refereed to Drallig as "The Troll". This video was Helluva treat. I wish you the best in your current studies.
Nice work here, Evan, quick question though; has there been a "Ranking The Council Masters During The Clone Wars" list yet? I think that'd be pretty interesting, though they're mostly in the same tier, it's probably hard to say who can definitively beat everyone below them, of course masters like Shak Ti and Plo Koon would probably be at the top I'm interested to see how the others fair.
I don't know why but when I was younger and used to dream about being in Star Wars during the Prequels, one of the Jedi I came up with was a 3000ish year old Gen Dai Battlemaster who had fought in the New Sith Wars and eventually fell to the Dark Side after (easily) surviving Order 66 by personally seeking out Sidious and being made a Legends Inquisitor.
I would like to say something in regard to one of the Panels from on of the Comics yoy showed. In it, Luke was telling the man next to him "Try not to hurt them. Each of them is a potential Jedi." This is a profoundly different level of thinking than i think most in the Old Republic days could ever have shown. Luke senses the force in them but doesnt just dismiss them as a force sensitive threat but rather sees them as potential recruits! He is so confident in the strength of the Jedi Philosophy and his ability to preach it that he believes that even these people (whom, as I belive his companion implies, are rather primitave compared to the rest of the galaxy) can be properly convinced to accept it. He has hope for the good in people. Just like he had hope for his father. And I got all of that from three movies and a comic page.
Great video as always. Excited to finally see your Sith Lords ranking video! Some suggestions for future VS matches: Revan vs. Exar Kun, Darth Bane vs Darth Caedus, King Ommin vs. Darth Vitiate
I personally fail to understand how Kao Cen Derach can be ahead of Kam Solusar considering Solusar can speed blitz/one-shot Vill Goir, who scales above other members of the Dark Side Elite and Sidious' other Dark Side adepts who know abilities noted as being powerful like sorcery and alchemy. This is even prior to Solusar continuing to grow in skill and power in JA and beyond. Derach's opponents in Malgus (at that point in time) and Vindican don't really have as much breadth in terms of hype or feats to really match that, I feel. I would even argue Solusar is nearing Hoth, but at least in Hoth's case he might have some scaling over Lsu etc, Derach doesn't really have that.
Amazing video as per usual! Would love to see a Sith ranking (Would be hard due to the rules of one and two eras but still would be interesting where you’d rank the various Sith Lords throughout history.)
Johun was not putting up a fight against Zannah. She was using his lack of skill to stall Sarro Xaj. She even says she couldve killed him already. And they were under battle mediation enhancement so the characterization of Hoths talent based on them isnt the best. Being a battlemaster at near 25 however is godly
As someone in the comments already suggested, can you do a similar video for the jedi council members? Old republic, classic republic, and new jedi order eras separately
I wish they could make some novels on the hero of Tython. I wish legends could have basically made the old republic mmo into novels going over the hero of Tython and the other republic characters as will as empire characters.
@@marcusarnold9175 I've never played KOTOR, so to me Revan has always been the dude we see in the novel and SWTOR, which is not the case for the Hero of Tython
@@filip_1203 exactly most of these characters from legends started out as video game characters and then were brought in through novels like Starkiller, Revan and others. Darth Malgues and Satele have a novel for them so I don't see as to why the hero of tython shouldn't. They are from the same game.
Now I wanna see Jedi Grand Masters switching places with Hoth on Ruusun *GM Luke appears nukes Kaan before he can even use the thought bomb* Nomi Sunrider might have been able to sever Kaan's force connection (taking advantage of the united mind to easily sever their connectiion) Yoda almost same deal as Like, Mace Windu (technically only master of the order which often along with grandmaster is usually kept the same person) **Literally fought armies and benefits from larger quantities of its energy kind of feeding off it to neg sith advantages (getting almost the same boost) would be able to Vaapad and/or shatter point could stop the thought bomb or possibly even diffuse it (via shatter point and/or vaapad combination to stop it). Thats an interesting thought would wanna see it fleshed out
Finally finding this video two years after the fact XD I love Kyle Katarn! I really enjoy how unorthodox he is from other Jedi Masters. He hardly ever wears a robe, instead choosing his cozy sweater. He also doesn't shy away from getting his hands dirty- dude will kill sith if given the chance.
I do have a request. Is it possible to do a Cal Kestis vs Kanan Jarrus match-up? I honestly think they're in the same league in terms of overall fighting capabilities and they are pretty similar to each other in regards to their characters.
Well, Bane vs Host is one of my favourite versus series video on the platform, so if your thoughts have changed on the subject of the true victor, then I would certainly enjoy hearing your point of view. Besides, I'm a bit of a Bane fanboy after listening to the Bane trilogy, and would love to have new videos on one of my three favourite Sith.
See you and I very much have opposite views on that video as I see it as Evans worst versus video despite being technically very well made. Got to give Evan credit though the majority of his content is stellar and the technical quality is always impressive.
7:35 I thought that you mentioned that your information would only come from the Legends continuity, and not the New Canon. This image and feat comes from the Kanan comics which is a tie-in to Disney's _Rebels_ show.
God I miss the old books and series. I wish instead of Disney screwing everything up, they would have embraced the best of the old stories and put them on the big screen. The Thrawn Trilogy would have been much better than the abomination they gave us.
Evan another awesome video with great in depth lore and analysis please never stop Fav defintely is Lord Hoth Btw idk if youll pick any of these but i wanted to pitch some battle ideas i had that i think sound good but your the master so its up to you if these are worth it either way im happy with everything you make Darth sion VS Darth krayt Palpatine Vs Cade skywalker Quinlan Vos Vs Asharad Hett And yes i mean darth krayt but only as he was before becoming Darth krayt Galen Marek Vs Exar Kun
If you ever do this again, I'd suggest doing the prequel era jedi council. Anyone on the council from Phantom Menace to RotS (or just do RotS if you think that's too long. Mainly I just want you to dunk on Coleman Trebor)
Alex Felix Luke both times although if anakin reached max potential then Luke max potential would be equal as stated by George Lucas . But overall luke is the smarter and more calculated fighter .
I love rewatching your Grand Master list (especially when you geek/freak out over Luke's black hole insanity) and didn't even realise this was a new BATTLE Master list until I started it. So yay for new lists! Your bottom choice highlights the one thing that actually annoys me about a lot of the Jedi and their "Master of so-and-so lightsaber form" titles. Experience and real-world application vs text-book learning. It feels like a lot of the post-Ruusan (and especially Prequel-era) Jedi got the "Master at..." position through very arbitrary reasons and maybe a sparring tournament or two during peacetime. I'd say that the only Jedi who truly were absolute masters of a form were the obvious names: Yoda and Artaru - Through sheer necessity because of his size and his age which allowed him to perfect the core techniques to match his physicality. Kenobi and Soresus - Not really much to be said here. He changed Form because of watching Jinn's Ataru-Dmej-So hybrid's weakness and the Clones Wars polished him into being king. Dooku and Makashi - Like Kenobi, no real comment needs to be made. Windu and Vaapad - Considering the Form is as much a psychological one and he created it, a very big "duh." Yet with Yoda especially, and the others to a lesser extent, it's generally considered that hey/they are "masters of all seven Forms." Which is fundamentally false on a practical level. Yoda simply cannot be a Soresus Master on the scale of Kenobi nor can his body ever allow him to be a master at Form V. Heck, he'd probably utterly fail if he tried to use Makashi with any real seriousness given his tiny step sizes. For me, there's a major difference between being a theoretical Master of a number of Forms and a practical Master of them. And there's a very obvious gap in knowledge over who exactly has declared someone a Form master. I know this is a bit of a tangent compared to the topic of the video so I'll get back to the list with this - A great breakdown and I really am looking forward to more of these. My opinions on Cin and Solusar is that they're the perfect examples of "those who can't, teach." Essentially solid but not really spectacular doers but who can train up the top 1% of the 1% athletes. That's not to say they're terrible at the lightsaber but rather their students are those who clearly outshine them.
Great list, Evan, i pretty much agree with everything except Kam Solusar's placement, i would actually put him in #3 and push Hoth to number 4, given that i believe his feats in Dark Empire II, I, Jedi and the NJO, plus, him training regularly with the top tiers of his era in such even matches are indicative that he would beat Kao Cen Darach and Lord Hoth, since both of them have less showings than him.
You were thinking of doing a top 10 sith list. It would be interesting to divide it into 2 top 10 list. like top 10 sith warriors and top 10 sith Force wielders.
Okay. Kao Cen Daratch is my favoritt battlemaster. And also one if not my favourite jedi Aswell my fave Sith is Darth maul. I know both are zabraks/iridonians. And do the information what you will. Both are quite cool and I think maul and kao both are awsome and I like to see more of kao cen daratch.
I was kinda expecting Cin Drallig to be last because he suck so hard as lightsaber duelist. But there is 2 more who sucks even harder than Cin Drallig. Especially Jun Sarros who gets the Colemon Trebor treatment of getting killed by bounty hunters. Yikes. Overall, awesome video and can`t wait for Grevious vs Zannah video.
And of course the video game lied to me. Cin Drallig is not a badass. But then again, it is the same video game where Anakin defeat both Mace Windu and Obi-Wan Kenobi (alternate ending) in this game so I should have known by then
