This video used to have chapters, but youtube hates me, so look below: 00:00 Raphael ramblings 01:55 Accept 06:00 Accept Deal Option 2 08:07 Refuse Deal/Thrall Ending
@@meliandahmodding3871 I ended up taking the tad pole while my buddy shot him between so I can still go full illithid without the emporer. Still, him turning to the Absolute for the sole purpose of survival was so Mind Flayer of him, and despite so, it caught us by surprise!
Imagine choosing the emperor's side from the beginning and still break into his house and steal the hammer. I know i didnt need to, but damn did i want to after i heared its in there ^^
I did this in my first playthrough - I rushed to finish it so I can start a second one, and I wanted to leave some content unexplored for future. I came to the Prism with no option. When Emperor betrayed me, and Raphael appeared - exactly as he said he would, all those hours upon hours ago - it was honestly one of the best moments I've ever experienced in my gaming life, 20+ years and counting. I literally smiled from ear to ear, it was so fitting (and perfectly suited for my 8 WIS 10 INT dumb sorcerer lol)
@@kittydaddy2023 sure but we're talking about realm-affecting stakes here. those stats wouldn't be nearly enough to outmaneuver a literal devil. At least that's my internal RP canon. Of course, you can argue that other party members would know better, but I'm sticking with this interpretation because I really wanted a second run as a Durge :D
I guess, that’s something for the category “What happens if…” In this case, what happens if you meet and reject the emperor without having the Orphic Hammer ^^
This is like the only route that Emps joining the brain actually makes any damn sense. It always drives me nuts how he will join the brain on the drop dime if you decide to free the prince and Larian Dropped the ball for not giving us a Roll attempt to convince Emps that freeing the prince is a good idea and then another roll to convince the prince to not kill Emps. It makes even less sense if you become a mind flayer before refuseing to eat the prince. But here. I get it. You refuse to work with him no matter what Dudes out of options here. He really doesnt have a choice. Because if you dont work with him. bye bye freedom. God I hope there is cut content out there that convinceses emps to work with the prince instead of voreing him.
Honestly, given other circumstances? I think it makes sense either way. The Emperor has a history of taking extreme measures to protect his own life above anything else. Call it his biggest personality fault. Now it would be nice to have more information on why he has that particular flaw, but it is a reasonable flaw for a character to have.
@@KuariThunderclawthe emps is a manipulative creature, its not balduran, its the meat robot that is using part of its memories. Like an engram in CP2077 is no longer the human it was but an IA using its personality to appear human.
"i am so desperate to avoid the netherbrains influence i do everything i can to stop it. But if something doesn't go my way. i'll just join it willingly." what a stupid ass character lol
This is absolutely within his motivations. His ultimate goal is SURVIVAL. At any cost. If you free orpheus, you are signing his death sentence as there is no way he would let him live. He has escaped the grasp of an elder brain twice before, he has a decent chance to do it again
He isn't throwing a temper tantrum he sees that he has a choice between siding with the absolute or being killed by either you or orpheus. I'd argue it's good writing because it shows that he isn't the "rather die on my feet than live on my knees" type that most who escape an oppressive master are like in fiction. He is purely logical and pragmatic, not hesitating at all to choose a bad option if the alternative is worse.
Robbing Raphael, saving Orpheus, and telling the emperor to kick rocks followed by killing his dumb manipulative ass when he turns coat is the only correct ending of this game. As soon as I saw that they had gith in the game as playable characters outside of the common Players Handbook choices, I knew they'd be the good guys overall.
I did feel bad at first, but after dealing with Ansur, I grew to hate the Emperor. I have a friend who was basically as loyal as Ansur, and seeing everything he tried to do to cure him, and even the part where he shed a tear as he was about to kill the Emperor.. I’d let him. I wouldn’t be able to kill my friend in that situation
Well.... thing is, the Emperor was never really a threat for the world - he just wants to scheme in the shadows. ORPHEUS, however, follows his mom's ideology and seeks to conquer and enslave ALL REALMS. So if you free him, you are basically sentencing billions to death
Funny thing is that he asks for the crown but no mention of the 3 crystals to control it.... Haven't finished everything yet but just a lil loophole there bud!
The Netherstones are used to enslave the brain, not to use the crown. The Brain with the Crown is just as dangerous as before, just as Raphael would be when he gets it
Hope you've finished by now. At this stage, the crystals are powerless. Only an illithid can wield them with enough proficiency to control the crown of karsus, some bullshit about human brain only being able to do one thing at a time while an illithid's is far more capable, which is why either Tav or Orpheus must turn into one to subjugate it.
@@silque_brigandess Not quite. The Stones themselves do still work, even in the hands of a non-Ilithid. The problem is that you're trying to dominate an Elder Brain on Ancient Magic Steroids, while not even being close to having the same kind of processing power. Basically you focus on one attempt to dominate, while the Netherbrain can easily defend and deflect against several attempts from dozens of different angles. You need to be an Ilithid, something that's remotely close to the Netherbrain in... *sigh* brain power... to have a shot.
Imo best endings: 1. Steal Hammer, Betray Emperor, Let Orpheus free, let him sacrifice, 2. Steal Hammer, Betray Emperor, Become Illithid yourself/or Karlach :( 3. Let Gale sacrifice himself 4. Join with the Emperor and beat the brain and doom the Gith.
Haven't gotten this option and doubt I'll get it. First playthrough I didn't go for the hammer and instead had developed a close bond with the Emperor. Second playthrough I got the hammer, breaking into House of Hope and had to kill Raphael for it. Didn't use it though, mostly just wanted to humiliate Raphael by taking what was his.
You can apparently quicksave after dying as an illithid and play as an illithid I wonder as to whether you can see raphael at his castle afterwards to harrass him for a different encounter you can also apparently get the illithid change in act 2, so earlier if possible. I might try it or not, i'm still fumbling about in act 1 lmaoo
You're close to trying something I've been wanting to try: What if you take the deal, free Orpheus THEN betray Orpheus? Does Raphael give a different end scene credit? He doesn't get the crown nor does he get a soul of yours to claim since you're now Illithid... Food for thought.
Technically, what mind flayers lack is an apostolic soul that helps gods. But they've shown in a few places they still have souls of some sort that are sources of power. A devil could use that.
@@Alforbia I disagree: Withers stated unequivocally that Illithids do not have souls. This dialogue is reinforced not only by your own conversation with him at the Act 2 conclusion scene (@Moonrise after Ketheric's defeat) as well as his post credit musings. The other thing that leads me to this conclusion are the comments made by Bane should you speak with dead on Gortash. Bane mentions that one of the reasons the dead three sought to turn them into Illithids was to "Raze the fields" of the enemy so to speak. This implication is that the Dead Three knew the exact consequences of turning mortals into Illithids, and they just didn't care.
@@crazedmike9907 Withers does specifically say 'apostolic souls'. The mentions of illithids having souls and appearing as pettioners in the afterlife are all outside the game, i believe.
@@freakymoejoe2I feel like it’s also mentioned specifically to keep things open for our bros Us and Omeluum. They clearly have empathy and kindness for others for the sake of it, which we attribute to having a soul or conscience. Emperor and the other mindflayers reinforce the idea that illithids have no souls because of their behaviors and also partially due to the nature of their existence. Unless you’re a rogue illithid like Omeluum and Us, you’re in thrall to something else at all times. Thralled to the parasite until transformation, and then thralled to elderbrains. Without free will, there’s no proof of soul
I love the fact that he doesn't say "I collect the crown if you triumph". No, he says "when you've triumphed." Raphael's a scheming bastard, but at least he's confident in our power. He knows we can and will do this if and when he helps us out.
WDYM there was another option? Does he means the deal to get the orphic hammer if you promise to give him the crown in the beggining of Act 3? Or there is a third option with him?
Honestly, at least here he says that he's joining the Netherbrain in order to survive. He doesn't even justify it if you brought the hammer to free Orpheus
Fr, in my ending he just goes "WELL if we're not absorbing Orpheus, then I have no choice but to join the brain!!!!" And I just sat there, being so sure that I made the right choice lmao. Unfortunately I ended up Illithid but oh well.
Wait, I‘ve never seen this before, how do you get this? I usually either accept Raphael’s deal, get the hammer and free Orpheus (and destroy the contract in the House of Hope) or I just agree to everything and give him the crown - how can I get him to show up here? 😨
Nothing will happen, the endings are unfortunately a part of the game that feel very unfinished. You can opt to destroy the crown or give it to Gale without consequences even having sold your soul. The game might even force that decison upon you, depending on your party members. Raphael will never speak to you again after you sign the contract at any point in the game (Ignoring after credit scene)
@@vnsynnyg Ending in swinging plotlines are always hard to tie up. Just look at Dr Who, everything is Deus Ex Machina. We can hope for new content of comparable quality, which I'd jump at.
@@bukojoetheslapsoils8273 i haven't even Min-maxed like at all. I did only full-classes with no multiclass or particular shenanigans, not even using obvious exploits like dropping potions or boxes. But i red people who had really different experience and struggle a lot even at balanced difficulty
wait...if u dont free orpheus why does his protection all of a sudden disappear after Raphael leaves? Raphael wasnt manipulating him...and in Orpheus' presence, everyone seems to be able to resist...why wouldnt you just take the prism and abscond and leave Baldur's Gate to its fate?
Because you can't harness the ability by yourself. It only protected you because Emperor has been siphoning the power from Orpheus and channeling it to protect you. Given that Orpheus himself notes you should have allowed his honor Guard to kill you, I very much doubt that unless we have the ending scenario - helping you being the only option to prevent Grand Design - he would be bothered to protect you
I was softlocked here. I took the hammer but "lost" it in another character inventory who wasn't in a final party and i could not switch when i was in astral plane. Emperor leaves but you don't have any portals to leave.
i wish you could really become partners or allies with him as he says here or perhaps negotiate something better than a stupid hammer I have no need for
For a son of Mephistopheles he really sucks at making offers. It's is always better to just kill him and just steal the hammer if you really want it (but why though? the emperor is a bro and I would never want to betray him)
@@DoffyDogg if they dont have souls, shouldn't they die the moment they cut off from the hive? The ilithid in the under dark should die too, but he became self-aware. Consiousness = soul?
@@hoangdung7494 Spoilers - if you haven't finished, Wither says that mind flayers don't have souls, and he is kind of the previous god of death, before the new 3 guys overtook his ''role''. I'm gonna take his word more seriously than those of a mind-flayer. More spoilers ahead- if you play Dark urge and openly refuse Bhaal (god of murder) Withers simply undoes his killing, saying that your time hasn't come yet.
What if right before taking the boat and start the final instance, someone from the group is sent back to camp, a new controller gets connected, prompting the creation of a new character, proceed to this scene, free Orpheus and then let the new dummy character turn into a mindflyer? If this new character gets named "Emperor" we might pretend he decided to trust us instead of joining the brain, or if this character is a Githyanky, we could pretend is one of the Orpheus honour guards who decided to do the sacrifice for their prince
Barbarian. Plus there's a feat that lets you lump on even more HP. I think it was the maximum of their class per level. Karlach's a solid wall if you build her right.
Actually in this all of those characters wich promisses to you help always wants use you and throw away as a junk. Gortash in his apatrments in third floor had two diaries where he wrote about main hero and his group about that they stinky brats but maybe he can use them, emperor with the same line had an ancient plates in illithid language where we can translate them with our worm friend and find out he wanted to use us to take a crown and rule the world, need to continue?)
I'll be honest, I just wonder what happens if you kill Raphael, leave the hammer behind in the House of Hope or sell it (lose it somehow), then refuse the emperor so he joins the Netherbrain (btw. still one of the dumbest plottwists in the game, because it doesn't make sense at all for his character), and then... then what? You can't free orpheus, and you don't have the emperor at your side. And Raphael isn't here to make a deal with you. Is that just game over? Or is there another backup ending?
@@Vak_Fairmont Orphic Hammer isn't a quest item. You can throw it into a chasm, same as Shar's Spear. Quest items in the game can be sold, dropped, thrown off cliffs, disposed of in any way. The only exception really being the Astral Prism.
Yes, if you have to sacrifice a companion or yourself to turn into a soulless mindflayer, selecting Astarion to become a mindflayer is the most horrifically cruel thing you can do to him (short of taking control of the Netherbrain and dominating the minds of all your companions to turn them into your slaves), since Astarion made it very clear he doesnt even want the Astral Tadpole or become a half-Illithid, let alone a full Mindflayer, as he is already traumatized by his transformation into a vampire two centuries earlier. And he hates the idea of becoming a true monsters even during the first meeting at the beach in Act! And would he then be an undead immortal Mindflayer?
kinda lame that after all the cutscenes throughout the game, there's nothing showing the worlds destruction after this choice. "nah we'll just make em float off to the brain, game over" Makes this end seem cheap, considering you'd pretty much have to deliberately try to get it.
True. The worst you technically get, is the ending to season 2. Gale blows himself and everyone else up, and now a swarm of mindflayers ravage the sword coast
screw your title, as it has no respect for people who haven't finished the game yet: it is a spoiler. If you have no respect for your potential followers, then you will find it very hard to earn their favor.
@@matthewbrunner3454 exept no they don't. In bg3 the only feature they get in unarmored defense wich is just objectively worse then scalemail. They can still rage and get unarmored movement. Also she is literally wearing normal scalemail in this clip so your point makes no sense
Here's the thing I never wanted to do, allow Raphael in desperation, keep the fricken crown, see what happens. Kill Raphael... Sad ending As he seemed so influential partnership. The contract amended in your own words, to suit you... After that kill Raphael. Other Isn't a possibility any longer. You have to give over to the Dev. If not, you become his soulless Spawns, either way, so better the Dev you do know¿? Then the Dev you Don't. ❤️🩹🦋💥🔨
