Love the irony of Astarion, right here. Astarion: "You had one chance to do the right thing" Meanwhile Astarion is approving of literally all bad actions in the entire game.
His whole thing is manipulation. Of course he doesn't believe in "doing the right thing" or any greater morality at all, but he expects that you do, and even though such an appeal would never work on him he thinks it would work on you.
I don’t know what path u have in game but astarion approves good choices too. Real good choices, not when u r just pragmatic, such as saving girl from fairy grandma, volo and etc. He even get inspiration points for some of them. I was purily good guy during all game and get only for about 2 disapprovals and all of them were connected with saving gnomes in act 2. But, well, it was quite suicidal decision to say smth against Nere, even Karlah disapproved my decision to unenslave them. So…
@@MaLeFeu I believe Karlach is more disapproving that you betrayed the Duergar, who you promised to help, rather than that you freed the Gnomes. Also, there's a Duergar you can talk to who will help you to fight Nere and he brings in some of the other Duergar to assist.
The funny loophole that Raphael condemns, the whole "subcontracting" thing, to Yurgir, is invalid on his part. Considering that because Yurgir no longer hears the song, the deal Raphael himself created has been fulfilled. He only argues that point to keep his grip on Yurgir. In hindsight, that's probably the reason why he wanted us to kill him in the first place. He knew we would probably explore and eventually kill the last Justiciar,, and in doing so free Yurgir. So he wants us to kill him to cover up the loophole he accidentally left in his and Yurgir's contract.
Oh yeah Raphael knew it was only a matter of time. He basically plays it perfectly though. There isn't really a way for Yurgir to win once he sends you in. Well assuming he doesn't kill you which I doubt Raphael considers possible
Well, Raphael does plays it as best as could be expected for a devil of his caliber, however, I'm sad there's no dialog option to try to thwart him and argue in favour of Yurgir.
@@matthewbibby8921 He's a d&d devil. But I think you're implying he's literally the Christian devil, which he isn't. Two things using the same word doesn't a comparison make.
@@TuberTugger I think the 'a' in front would disqualify that since there is one devil like there is one god in Christian mythology. Also, @williamfalls GOD YES! I don't think any other battle gave me as much satisfaction as getting one over on Raphael, especially if you free Hope.
Not only did i not kill the last justiciar, i didnt know there was one. I just thought they had been turned into rats somehow, and went on with the story. Killed this yugir guy in the meantime by luring him to the stairs from the main area, and blocking the places to jump to for permanent high ground and minimal weakness to melee attacks
I left the rats alone entirely. Yeah they were kinda rude to me, but I always seemed to find them mid-worship. I couldn't think of a good reason for my character to waste time killing them for something that minor
That's one way to handle Yurgir and his horde of Merrigons. Another way is to come at the battle from the side of the room with the viscera, skeletons and enchanted spider corpse, lob/shoot something aoe up at the Merrigons and run back out of range to activate stealth, rinse and repeat to kill his friends, then go up and take him down 4v1. That was how I approached this fight the first time I did it.
@@whiteraven562 I killed them in one run (after I talked Yurgir into killing himself) because there were some in doorways in a few areas and they kept BITING ME just for standing near them.
@@Bazil496Gortash's parents sold him to Raphael and he grew up in the House of Hope where he was tortured and beaten, so you could say Raphael raised him in a veeeery twisted way.
It seems like the developers, while having enough time to account for killing the Justiciar before talking to Yurgir , they didn't have the time to provide a different reaction for Asterion, given how he still acts like we had cut a deal with Yurgir to free him from his contract, rather than it being purely by accident.
You could still kill him though couldn't you? That was the agreement with Raphael. Actually I think I did it in this order but I didn't speak to Yurgir I just attacked him because Raphael warned you not to listen to him and just kill him and I didn't want to mess up his deal with Astarion so I snuck around the back way instead of trying to sneak past the displacer beast and killed him using Balthazaar's zombie as a tank.
@@adamgerald849only if you did it before triggering the dialogue with Yurgir. Once it starts, there is no going back. Yurgir will always go with Raphael and your deal with Astarion will be off
This: I had to save scum meeting yugir because he happened to be the LAST encounter before Shadowfell coz I OVER explored. That and the rats mocked me: it was well within my PC to electrocute every one of them for thinking they could snivel in my direction. I wanted Yugirs story but that's gunna be another playthrough 😂😂😂 also further proof Raphael has been playing you, the entire time. I mean that part of Raphie's story is why I'm diving into playthroughs cuz I'm CONVINCED he Def had his hands on Karsus/other long winded diatribe you only piece together from having multiple playthroughs. 😂 guess you could say I'm a fan. Sadly no one character will every know the whole story of Raphael.
If the Contract didn’t stipulate you couldn’t get outside help, then you can’t be in breach for doing so You can’t be in violation of what wasn’t said or written in a deal, print can’t be so fine that it isn’t there Raphael played him like a fiddle, he had nothing on the Orthorn anymore, just made them think he did
The contract seemed to stipulate that Yurgir had to kill the Dark Justiciar, which, another guy getting the kill means Yurgir did NOT kill the Dark Justiciar.
God I loved how I did this. I talked to the demon, let him think I was on his side, told astarion, 'chill dude, it's all part of the plan' then got my party in an advantagous position and just let loose with arrows and bombs. so much fun!
This video just reminded me that Raphael never showed up in my playthrough to tell Astarion what his tattoo meant after ending Yurgir. My no-long-rest playthrough really was a dumb idea in hindsight
@@MelBryantmusic Warlocks can get slots back on short rests, likely lot of loot goblin behaviour/knowing what's going to happen and then melee characters.
@@uraverageperson9585 It does, and he approves after Yurgir offs himself. Tbh I thought he would have approved when he saw where I was going with it, seems to me like talking someone into killing all their friends and then themself would be right up his alley
FYI, everyone that wants to kill the Justicar for his scimitar but also help Astarion. Just walk into to room and jump him. Don't talk to Yungir. Just blast him. Preferably as a Gloomstalker. Pretty much killed him on one turn. Even though hes free from the contract if you kill him before Raphael shows up you're good on Astarion's contract.
There is another way to figure out what the scars, and the contract, mean without killing Yungir, and it has to do with the Necromancy Of Thay, concluding in act 3.
i basically broke this quest and got this cutscene because i couldn’t resist throwing an alchemist’s fire at the rats around the shar altar before you even enter the temple… i spoke to the rat that comes up to you with my druid and promised to not kill any more of them to get their treasure but apparently my crimes against ratkind were too great and they attacked me anyway, and also this fabled last dark justiciar never showed up for me after the fight? so i didn’t think much of it right until this point where i felt so cheated i reloaded 2 hours of gameplay to kill this guy lmao but really astarion look it’s not my fault those rats were standing in a perfectly alchemist’s fire shaped circle
there are more rats below the shar's big statue, i'm not sure if you've seen it. I found it by following the rats after i noticed a ton of rats running to the same direction after i killed quite a few of them
@@MixedSnowFoxPlays oh yea i did, i followed them immediately without touching anything in the gauntlet to get the reward the rat promised, but when i got there they still said “we warned you” and aggroed… i think it’s because i took out 5 of them at once?? and maybe the game checks for total rats dead in the temple idk
I did this without even meaning to. Found the rats, put them in a magical blender, then shanked the grumpy justiciar in self defence. Found this guy like 5 minutes later and was surprised to find out I didn't need to fight him because i accidentally screwed him over.
Huh I had no idea this could happen. When I saw that displacer beast I just attacked it and got swarmed by Yurgir and his followers. We killed them with some effort and Astarion got his scar decoded.
Same, saw the beast drawing me to an ambush, so I ambushed them instead. Ended up with almost all my party wiped out, so I had to flee and somehow manage to ressurect all my party members, which I managed to do one by one, running away after each one lol. This fight is no joke
@@pyroblaster2476I kited them through both flights of those broken stairs. Chipped away at them as I went. One by one, they tried jumping the stairs to get me, one by one they perished. Yurgir was the last one standing. He almost Allah snackbarred my ass but I got him. I was pretty proud of myself. 😂
Same, except I didn't have Astarion out so there was no dialogue for this section at all. I didn't even know Yurgir could talk to you until Raphael summoned him in the House Of Hope.
My favorite version of devil's contracts are the kind where there's nothing actually binding the devil to their word, and they're just playing with their food. I know that's not what's happening here, but I find the concept of bargaining with otherworldly entities fascinating.
Well, i did this in my first run. I killed the Dark Justiciar before meeting Yurgir. When Astarion just goes mad for this i was asking "Bro you literally follow me and killed the guy BEFORE we even know who tf Yurgir is. HOW DID COULD I KNOW THIS BEFORE?" Sad that BG3 devs didn't think of this 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@jussmaster you don't have to complete the trials to fight the dark justiciar, just go all the way to the bottom to a certain location and interact with some items, fight a bunch of rats then the dark justiciar will pop out
Yeah, the game's full of stuff like this, it's a shame really. If you don't get Shadowheart to open up to you then do this area without her, on the way out she'll confront you acting like you betrayed her because she was meant to complete the trial etc. Like my character had no idea she even worshipped Shar or wanted to become a dark justiciar (because she specifically rebukes every attempt to get to know her!), but she takes it as a personal affront and leaves the party for good. My character also had no option to ask 'wtf are you talking about?' the same way you can't say to Astarion here something like 'how was I meant to know killing all those rats would void the deal we made??' so it doesn't come across as the characters themselves being unreasonable, but the game just not acknowledging events properly, so it's super jarring and just makes everything feel weightless. Like I get that accounting for every possibility takes a lot of resources, but it's really important! And besides, there are so many instances where companions just not saying anything makes a lot more sense, so the best thing would be to just not have these dialogues trigger. It's the game's biggest flaw imo.
@@fddldd6661this game already super spoils us with the amount of things that larian planned for and made to be reactive to the players actions. Some small details here and there are really nothing fret over. Especially when 99% of games dont even give you multiple options for completing a quest to begin with. Let alone dynamic responses to how you do it. So at this point i dont think the complaint is valid for something like this
It's not indeed, Raphael just manipulated Yurgir (he wouldn't have lost time negociation if there really was a breach, but nothing in the contract mentionned Yurgir have to personally kill all Dark Justiciars)
Our odds are still better togheter ... Yes because if you go far away from me you will be subjected to the absolute ... Same with all the others ... The only 1 that leave for good cause is Gale and maybe he would ask to keep bonded to some place so he would be sure his trhall himself would not endager other people
Man I attacked the displacer beast and stole the orb by turning invisible bc I didn't know you could speak to him, when I went back he was always aggressive and I never got to talk to him
I'd killed the rats before I even met Yurgir, so I had no idea about the deal. I got the same dialogue from Astarion, even though I definitely did not "choose" a devil over him
There definitely needs to be a dialogue opportunity to kill Yurgir before Raphael shows up. I was so confused when this happened, it robs you of completing your own deal with Raphael.
Good writing from Rafael have Yurgir acknowledge the party as subcontractors by offering them a reward now adding extra weight to the breach of contract.
Not gonna lie, this interaction kinda felt like the party getting in the way with the DMs plans for an NPC, then comming up with some BS on the fly to avoid too much inconsistencies with what the DM has planned for the future. I highly doubt any Orthon would just enter a second contract with someone who actively trapped them to not complete it (we don't even know what Yugir got out of the contract, and if it was annuled by the fake loophole) Another reason why I belive the loophole to be fake, Mizora vould downright quote the legal fineprint, while Raphael is just pulling an "um, actually"
@MrDustilicious idk man, this scene did not make much sense. Yugir was spitting nothing but vile acid about Raphael, but one measly half threat and he's like "ok". Not to mention the 0% of player agency in that scene, you just stand there and watch it unfold. No option to convince him to attack him now, no option to play this as your modus operandi of solving Raphaels quarrel. I mean, why even have the successful check earlier, showing how uncomfortable Raphael is with the idea of helping the Orthon vs just killing it, if going down that path just results in railroading? Sure, you get a little bit of drama with Astarion, but that's about it
This is crazy coincidence, i literally just did this 20 minutes ago I was a little disappointed. It doesnt recognise your lack of previous interaction as much as I'd like, but it did do something at least
this way the dialog makes no sence in my opinion... Astarion talking like we have been and talked to Yurgir before and made a free decision to delete his deal with Raphael... instead of just randomly killing things in our way and Raphael just taking the opportunity to kill Yurgir before we could try it... some of the moments where i felt short of dialog options... anotherone after Halsin got killed and returning to the grove and everyone telling me... if you find him, tell us... at the end telling people that someone is dead is really not often an option... also in the money-house - can't tell no one that there boss died down there in an ambush... and yeah, i am good in randomly getting people killed who shouldn't die if i was a decent gamer.. ;o9 or when not making a runthrough but playing more options... that you can tell no other healer that you already found out that your brain-insects are special before them letting do there thing and being surprised that they are special... in my first 55 hour story-run-through everything was perfect, but in the forth or fifth, when i pay more attention to such stuff and explore more than trying to just survive and speed run healer and source of magic and stuff, there are some little issues....
There are definitely some glitches in the dialogues - one I ran into 2 out of 3 times now was Gale berating me about a deal I had made with "a devil"... pretty sure he's talking about the whole Raph/Orphic Hammer/Crown of Karsus thing. Problem is: Gale started this conversation when I hadn't even entered Sharess' Caress yet, much less spoken to Raphael. I think what triggers this is the party discovering the South Span waypoint and/or getting *close* to the whorehouse. Another glitch I encountered for the first time this run was Shadowheart suddenly having a dialogue option lamenting the fact that she and my Tav never got together - when she had professed her love to Tav just a minute before that and had told him she wanted to be with him forever... lol. In fairness: There are so many conversations with your party members, so many ways conversations can unfold and lots of times it's the player (not the game) who decides what order he does what quests in. "De-bugging" all that stuff and making sure conversations don't trigger at the wrong time must be a bit of a nightmare for the devs.
Didn't even know you could talk to this guy, he has always just aggroed and insta gibbed my whole party with a blast wave lol. For a big fellow he sure is fast.
My only peeve with this is that I was doing Astarions quest and unknowingly killed the rats before meeting Yurgir. I then talked to him and Raphael did his thing which made Astarion livid asking how I could do such a thing without giving an option of “how was I suppose to know killing the rats would do that” on top of the fact you don’t get any decision for combat. Only sorry’s and we’ll find another way. And before anyone says it. Yes Ik you can redo it with reloading a save to just attack him but I was on a no rerolls/take backs run first go like a real dnd session.
I don't think it's like a real D&D session. In a real D&D session a DM can make new story paths out of your failures or at least turn it into a laugh. In BG3 failure usually either locks you out of content or it kills you and you have to redo things you already did in a previous save. In a real D&D session if you die you just continue on with a new character. The DM doesn't say "your party has died so now we have to restart the campaign and do plotlines you already did before"
My Tav, a tiefling who has told Astarion what is written on his back: *helps Yurgir and doesn´t kill him* Astarion: You choose a devil over me? Me, in that moment: Yeah, sorry mate but Yurgir just kinda bbg you know
So what was the point of Raphael showing up stressed out of his mind about the prospect of Yurgir escaping the Gauntlet if he could easily talk Yurgir down?
he's def more stressed out here but covering it up given that he IMMEDIATELY poofs in when you make it clear you're not gonna kill Yurgir and that he's free to go. him and korilla don't really do that unless one of raphael's assets is about to die/be freed
I know gameplay wise why they had Yurgir sign a new contract with Raphael, that way he’d be at the House of Hope and help you fight Raphael (assuming you helped him break his contract or passed the persuasion check). However it would be nice if you could argue back at Raphael after he said “nowhere does it stipulate that you could subcontract the last kill….” by asking “ok, but is there anywhere in the contract specifically stipulating he can’t subcontract the last kill?” Or if in the instance of this video you kill the final justiciar before meeting Yurgir meaning he never subcontracted it out and it’s not his fault that you just happened to kill him then it shouldn’t be a breach of contract that someone else happened to fulfill the final part of the contract, you could argue that he never subcontracted it out and thus is not in breach of contract. Finally if could knock the justiciar out and pick him up (or control him via some spell), and then bring him to Yurgir and let him strike the final blow thus fulfilling the contract if you got unique dialogue for that
I don't, do you see the mountains of bodies around him? Plus his stories of other horrible acts of cruelty? yeah, nope, no mercy. Also if you kill him you get his crossbows (one is really huge if you can disarm him), and also he revives in act 3, and he'll be willing to join you out of respect.
In my playthrough I convinced Yurgir to kill all his followers and then himself. I just wish I could have told him there was one Justiciar left right after he fell on his sword and died in breach of contract.
I never had this dialogue, I saw him and his goons from afar and thought it was an ambush just like happened 10 other times on act 2, so I killed them all from afar. :/
Why? He loses nothing and forces another to give you the drops he's leaving behind anyway. Another bout of meaningless words, stop getting played like a fiddle.
So funny enough, I actually did that while romancing Astarion and the thing that apparently I did not know is if you do this while romancing him, it will decrease your romance with him and put you back to being companions instead of lovers
He can't -- Astarion makes a deal with Raphael that if Team Tadpole kills Yurgir, Raphael'll tell Astarion about the scars (which he does at your next long rest if you do kill the orthon). Yurgir is just collateral.
my first playthrough I told him to leave or else after he tried to bite me. And not sorry his voice annoys the hell out of me. He is somewhat growing on me second playthrough only because I made him a very strong rogue He shreds.
On the bright side, you can convince Yurgir in the House of Hope to team up with you against Raphael. One less mob in that fight, and one more ally on your side.
I remember the first time I faced Yurgir and he absolutely destroyed me. 3 of my party died and only Astarion remained, I had him use an invisibility potion to run away from the fight, went to talk to Withers to revive everyone and then counter-ambushed Yurgir when everyone was back. He was standing on low ground this time so I managed to cast a lot of CC spells on him and killed him easily
But Yurgir didn't ask for our help in this route. Also yes the contract didn't say Yurgir could get an adventuring party to kill the last Dark Justiciar but it also didn't seem to say he couldn't.
I did this on my first playthrough. The rats attacked me so I cleared them, killed the guy because he attacked me. and showed up to meet Yurgir and was very very very confused.
I wonder... could you lure the justiciar to yugir? Like, maybe pick up rats as a weapon at throw them at yurgir? Or just lure him to the ambush in phase 2?
I wish there was a version where you could knock out the Justiciar, then send Yurgir over to score the final blow. (I mean maybe there is, but I haven't actually tried but I'm pretty sure there isn't). Or just something to let Yurgir escape without being strongarmed into a new contract.
Then there's me, who simply talked him into unaliving all his followers and then himself....only to have him help me dispose of Raphael in the House of Hope 😂😂😂😂 4:35
The contract was to kill all Dark Justiciars he found in the halls? So he could just knock on the front door and when he doesn't get a reply say "guess I didn't FIND any..." and go home?
I’ve had very drastic differences every campaign I’ve ran, 1st time I never even talked to him till the end of the temple run like this video shows. But 2nd solo run I just went straight to him, his “lover” was a lookout and ran away but they were immediately hostile in an ambushing spot when I approach, so I took the side route he went berserk, while in my multiplayer run he wasn’t openly hostile and offered us to look for the last. Still optimally you should ice the bastard for the crossbow and grenades he throws
Raphael is getting cheeky with the logic. Sure the contract didnt say he was allowed to let tav kill the last one, but it also doesnt say you cant either.
I think my version of this must be bugged, because I definitely killed that guy before talking to him and he acted as though there were still guys inside of the Temple. 🤔
