I remember when I was suicidal about my homosexuality and thinking about how "in heaven I'll be made perfect" and thinking what's the quickest way for me to get to heaven so I'll be fixed. I'm appalled. I came out last year in my seminary class because I'm honestly didn't care anymore I decided I'd leave the church and there was a girl who reminded me of when I first started school and uncovered my attraction. I'm heartbroken to think if she or anyone else is having the thoughts now that I had back then.
imagine the nationwide backlash if someone gave a graduation speech encouraging gun violence against lgbtq+ at any other university. this is embarrassing for byu.
Matt was valedictorian, his speech was read and approved by the authorities before he shared that speech. They backtracked afterwards. The church sucks!
As a teacher here in Utah I had to take down my gay pride heart on my board and my gay pride pin on my lanyard. Because it’s considered political. It made me cry.
As a former Utah teacher, this makes me really sad and all the more resolved to homeschool my kids when they happen. The looming threat over education right now is terrifying.
I'm so glad your students have a supportive, caring teacher like you in their lives. The administration cannot take your love and compassion away from your students, only make sad attempts to hide it. I wish you and your kiddos the best in the back to school season, and I hope you are able to remain safe, and healthy. Supportive teachers, even covert ones, mean the world. 🏳️🌈
So hear me out. What if you got a bunch of posters of landscape photos with rainbows in them, or otherwise found a way to display the rainbow colors in your classroom. Get a pin that says "love wins", or a rainbowish lanyard. Make it a little ambiguous, the kids will still get the message :)
Reminds me of one of the Freeburg paintings of a Jaredite with the earrings. I remember asking my mom why the old mormon guys got to wear those. :) (although Zelph's is a lot cooler.)
@Jackstuff33 I don't think you should mislabel Tanner as gay. He himself previously said he was bisexual. I think everybody observing this channel, clearly understands why people of both sexes find Tanner attractive. Also, I usually just by chance only hang out with Straight Men, Typically. I mean sure, I always am a fan favorite of the wife-unit in said relationship, and we definitely always get along great etc. But, anyone I hang with is pretty much a bro. There's like a single exception (I have a really good female content creator friend who I go to gaming conventions with and stuff who lives in NV). This is actually very common in the gay community -- believe it or not. My Boyfriend and I just got back from Hawaii last month from his best straight friends wedding. My bf is also the godfather of his best friends Son. We were the only gay couple flying to Hawaii to attend, and everybody had a blast! (probably because it was a normal Christian/Eveangelical wedding, dealing with normal Christians outside of Utah is wonderful. No awkward comments, or side eye that have been experienced at LDS weddings) Then he and his bff just went to Las Vegas last weekend together on a bro trip. This is very common. What are you talking about? Are you talking about a stereotype? Lastly, I've got to know -- are you just jealous of his hair? The fact that he's not overweight? The fact that he's not still in the closet lying about Jesus to people? Like I'm really invested and curious to know now lol. What's your deal that you would make a jab like that. I'm not a doctor or psychiatrist but, based off of what you said. I think that you are jealous, and you find it wasteful that an attractive female would desire him. If that is the case. That would mean that you are so mad that you didn't have enough time to realize that this also means that there's undoubtably a list of amazing, vibrant, attractive females that have wanted Tanner and couldn't have him. I live for it! What if... Tanner just has really high standards, and is just attractive to both men and women? This could very well also be the case, and it doesn't really invalidate my previous point about having a list of broken hearts behind him. Also, Tanners not the only heartbreaker to have ever existed. 10% of the 100% of the guys are smokeshows and typically have BOTH the highest physique and intellectual values. With so many campus targets at BYU focusing in on Tanner like that is a pretty Beta thing to do. IMO.
"BYU stands for Big Yellow Underwear". That's what kids would say in the 4th grade to other kids that liked BYU. I feel like it becomes more relevant every day.
BYU dragged me out of Mormonism kicking and screaming. If I hadn't seen the glaring hypocrisy of the church at BYU, I don't know if I would have left as soon as I did. I tried to hold on by telling myself it was the culture and not the gospel, by taking bits and pieces of doctrine and twisting them to fit into a belief system that was way more loving and accepting than the church was. When I got to BYU, I realized that it wasn't just individual members who were exclusionary and cruel, it was the entire thing. I saw so much misery and hurt at BYU that I couldn't not lose my faith in the church
I’m a lesbian, born into the Mormon church, and I still live with my (inactive) father and very active mother. They love me no matter what, but I worry for those children whose parents’ love IS conditional. I worry for gun violence against members of my community. And my heart breaks in knowing that the church can still hurt me, despite not being active since 2013. I’m so exhausted by this-why must these old, cruel men continue to harm us?
It's their money and power. Even though the religion is irrelevant to most people in the world, their money gives them power. Reminds me of scientology as well. They are anti gay and medicine.
Keep in mind he used the metaphor for gun violence just days after it was reported that two sapphic women (Crystal Turner and Kylen Schulte, newlyweds) were murdered by shooting in Utah. The women had reached out to friends about a creepy guy the next campsite over and were planning on moving campsites.
Why must you continually live in a fantasy where you’re always a victim and never a master of your own fate? Why are your insecurities, struggles and setbacks other people’s fault? Are you just a child or are you really not aware that everyone has before them their own mental physical or spiritual Everest, their own wrestle with identity in this world that feels as a fight for life itself? In short, why do you think you’re so special?
I can't even say how much this pisses me off. The musket metaphor makes me worry that some of our conflicted Mormon LGBTQIA people will take this as a sign to turn a gun on themselves. Unfortunately, TBMs will not see the horror of these words. Thanks for the video.
Are you allowed to drive? Who ties your shoes for you and why do you think everyone else is as dim and obtuse as you? Have you no respect for others that you really believe they’ll misunderstand Holland and decide to shoot themselves? Give your fellow man some credit and not view them as weak idiots
Thank you for reading this. I dont want to listen to the original talk, and reading it alone would ruin my day. Listening to you guys helps me see keep up to date what the bulldog said. I'll know exactly how bad and toxic it is.
@d.porter3142 don't be obtuse. Holland is *not* encouraging love and acceptance, he is endorsing hate. He won't say it aloud, but he absolutely is. The active LDS family (The Talbots) that lit the Y are endorsing love. They were not violent, left when they were asked, and showed thousands of LGBT folks that they are loved. They did not insinuate violence or use violent metaphors. I really hope that you come out of this fog, and I mean this genuinely. I hope that you are able to come out of this and see why so many are leaving, we will all welcome you with open arms. ❤
God I hope they loose their tax exemption. And are backdated for a hundred years and are forced to pay back what they stole. They’re going to continue to bleed out at an increasing rate with this kind of view. This is almost inciting violence.
My EX wife’s BFF and Uber wealthy former Stake president, regional rep husband are 2nd anointed, she is really aggressively touchy, and loudly inappropriate
It really is the gun metaphor that is especially appalling & terrifying. There was a recent news article about a lesbian couple in Utah who are no longer alive because of some creep with a gun. I’m terrified of being publicly affectionate with my gf in conservative states/places. The violence is too real. Holland is either so tone deaf & oblivious or he’s knowingly & intentionally using this metaphor. (That hasn’t *ever* just been a metaphor for queer ppl). They are guilty of so many lives lost through both violence & suicide and to stand there and say that being honest about your identity as LGBTQ+ or to visibly show any token of support for ppl who are is *dIviSiVe* makes me literally sick. The blatant hypocrisy & abuse tactics are psychologically damaging to the most vulnerable hearing this message.
My daughter and her partner moved out of Utah because of these reasons. It breaks my heart that they are so far away. We are moving closer to them once we retire. It’s sad this state is so hateful towards ex and non members.
BYU-I student here! I'm not out as anything so I'm alright for now... I'm just worried I won't be able to convince my teachers to be okay with long hair, which is a great source of euphoria (and just making me look fabulous). Thanks for the content!
I went to BYU in the 80s and I remember looking forward to Holland's talks when he was the University President. I lost most of my respect of him when he lied to the BBC about what happens in the temple. I do still watch BYUTV because they still play the women's soccer and volleyball teams. Those programs are exceptional.
The valedictorian speech was vetted and approved by the administration ahead of the commencement. He wasn’t commandeering the podium. The university approved his message - which was all About how great BYU and the church is.
Attending BYU probably accelerated my leaving Mormonism. I was a freshman during Prop 8. Being in that environment forced me to confront my own sexuality and to better realize how hideous Mormonism is. It’s been about 10 years since I’ve left and once again I’m not remotely surprised-nothing ever changes. (Except for maybe adjusting language and PR-always a distinction without a difference. Just crumbs to gaslight ex-mos or questioning Mormons.) If I hear Mormons are using the line “he was speaking as a man,” I will scream. It’s absurdly disingenuous and they know it. I hope liberal Mormons realize that the issue is with the doctrine and they cannot be “good” Mormons and support LGBT+ people. I hope they realize they can live more morally, ethically, and happily outside of the church.
Seriously! I don't see how they could make that claim when he gave an apolistic blessing at the end. He is speaking as an apostle (prophet, seer, revelator).
I love how Sam's nails match her shirt lol. It's ironic how every time I start to think "well, what if the church really is true after all?" they pull something like this
never-mo lesbian here, this speech fucked me up. The suicide crisis is already so bad, this is literally deadly language. Any LGTBQ mormons in need of a friend, I’m here for you!!!
Im so jealous of Sam's hair wave. It hurts my heart to think of all the trans people in the church just trying to survive and the having to hear all this fucking bullshit. Everyone deserves to feel like they own their bodies and lives and I cant imagine myself living like I did for a couple decades let alone doing so in a very violently homophobic and transphobic community and feeling like they have no choice but continue living in skin and roles they don't feel right in, or not being able to pursue happiness.
Yeah, sure, let's make nasty gun metaphors about LGBT+ people with the trauma of the Pulse attack still fresh on our minds. So much for showing compassion.
Thank you for this! My heart sank yesterday when I was made aware of this crap address. As a long time ally to the LGBTQ+ community, I hope all of our LGBTQ+ friends at BYU find this video and see the tired absurdity that these old men project every time they stand up to a pulpit. Sam, I literally had water coming out of my nose when you said "circle jerk". Thank you, your passion and humor helps.
Divisive for people like Jeff means “you said something that made me feel uncomfortable.” And he’s completely unable to examine and identify his own discomfort as the actual issue.
I’m from Scotland (U.K.) and over the past few years I’ve noticed more and more people becoming more right wing, and almost American in their thinking. Definitely know more climate sceptics than I did a few years ago. However, I don’t know if that’s just more people feel comfortable talking about their ideology or if more people have changed their beliefs on the subject
i really appreciate your videos, ive been listening daily to all your old videos and am honestly shocked at all the information that was pushed under the rug. it honestly hurts. i was ready to not get married to a man for the church and be celibate my whole life. not sure where to go from here but now i know it’s not true.
Can we all say ‘gaslighting’ and ‘cult culture’ and ‘ narcissism’. As an ex mormon for over 17 years, this is so clearly toxic in every sense of the word. My siblings, their spouses & children who still follow this message and practices and attitudes are clearly not educated and self thinking in reality. It used to be sad to me, now it’s disgusting.
I'm so early but I already love it, love you guys and I hope to subscribe to the patreon soon!! I'm hurt by this because almost all of my family stayed in the church, while all my sisters (and me) came out as gay. The fact that my brothers & parents would heavily support an institution that would say that type of disgusting stuff about the LGBTG+ community... I hate it. I hope this drives a lot more people to really reflect on what they truly stand for. Love doesn't discriminate... please accept us into your society. We deserve to be here just as much as you and we are no less "worthy" simply because WE choose to LOVE certain people!! Maybe ask yourself why you hate us so much instead?
He clearly says that TBM cannot be advocates or allies for the LGBTQ community. There you have it, folks. No more debate on that question. Straight from an apostle's mouth, the answer is "no". This address makes my stomach turn. 🤢
With the current social outrage, grief and fear about school shootings, this speech is shocking. Is Jeffrey in a cultural coma? I just made that up so maybe it’s from a prompting
Elder Holland should be arrested for inciting violence. Isn't that a crime? Inciting violence against a marginalized group should be charged as a hate crime. And coming from a religious leader to call his people to action against marginalized groups should also be charged as terrorism and treason. Why isn't he being arrested???
I really hate when evangelicals claim that they "love" gay people, while completely rejecting them. I lived in the Bible belt for 19 years, and I literally say to people that the Bible literally says that love keeps no record of wrongs, so, even if they believe that being gay is a sin (I don't believe that), if they are focused on that aspect of a person, then they are not loving them.
It’s gaslighting. Claiming to the target that your hatred and discrimination towards them is somehow positive or done out of “love” is pure gaslighting
Check out Betty Bowers when she calls out Westboro Baptist Church for hating SO ugly instead of masking their hatred by hating pretty, like she does. Hating Pretty is when you love the sinner, but hate literally EVERYTHING Else about them. I’m so tired of this Shiz! Frickin’ Fatigued! Couple this rhetoric with Desnat Miracle Whip Militia, lies, and ignorance….what could possibly go wrong? What a shame Elder Holland vows to take his fight to the grave, when his position, calling, and anointings could do magic. This whole thing looks like the child abuse that it is.
You're so right about how bigotry works! It's how people get away with treating and viewing others like trash. The only person I can think of that is actually overtly homophobic is Steven Anderson. That man flies in to a spitting rage every time he talks about gay people, it's honestly a bit pathetic and almost funny until you realize he can vote and has kids
Absolutely grateful for your video on this. Such good points, I appreciated the jokes to lighten what is otherwise so enraging and sad. Thank you for sharing 💛
I'm so glad you're as angry as I am. I was furious when I read this, speechlessly furious. Mormons and especially the apostles love to change the definition of love to fit their own purposes. Also the whole Jesus didn't say "Because I love you, you are exempt from my commandments." Like this man doesn't understand Jesus at all. That sentence made me so mad. Like Tanner said from the beginning, he really is taking everything that makes Jesus and doing the exact opposite.
Elder Holland has always made my skin crawl, and anyone who said he was their favorite apostle was instantly added to my red flag list. His bigotry truly has no limits. I've never like his talks, because without all the metaphors and slow speaking, his talks are just straight up hateful word vomit 🤮
Thank you!!! People went nuts whenever he gave a speech and I was there sitting with my stomach churning and a buzz in my ears, while watching everyone look at him with stars in their eyes and all I heard were hateful, angry, judgmental words. I didn’t understand why until I finally left. I also hated Bednar.
I'm sure you will all be very excited to know that after one of the seminary teachers at my high school added a PowerPoint slide welcoming LGBTQIA+ students two ADULT (educational) BOARD MEMBERS commented extremely homophobic stuff along the lines of "Time to make some phone calls, the world is too much with us" and "Time to get our muskets" on their personal face book pages. I am sickened by the attitude of these people when my seminary was simply trying to treat LGBTQIA+ youth like real fucking humans. You are adults. I hope they have to face the consequences. Karma is a bitch.
Most of the original cast have distanced themselves from the church, I got hang out with some of them about a year ago, and they were super chill and definitely not very Mormon
when they first moved to jk studios I watched a video from them and 2 of the women were joking about getting married to each other. Certainly not mormon
Ancient of Days is also Adam's super duper special title according to weird Joseph Smith lore, so kind of presumptuous for ol' Jeff to claim. He am who he says he am.
Part of this declaration is putting it in the same vein as Liberty U, Grand Canyon U, etc. They also receive govt funding and are regionally accredited (the “good” kind). One day the Dept of Ed is going to enforce inclusivity and BYU will become truly private & super expensive.
So I found it true at byui as well. I had a few professors that taught stuff that kind of contradicted with the church, mostly my biology and psychology classes, which was most of them. But most of those professors tried very hard to fit that info in connection with the church. I'd say the religious professors were far more harmful to my faith, ironically enough.
The Norwegian government give 15.000.0000nok to the Jehovah Witnesses anually. But they need to respect human rights to get the money. Jehovah Witnesses take the money and claim to be persecuted when the government ask them why they dont respect human rights :-D You are not persecuted when they give you cash! Mormons and Jehovahs have the same persecution complex
A bit of context is required for those who don't know why the Norwegian government collects money for religious groups - it is a required tax and you have to list an organization's to get the money or it goes to the Lutheran church of Norway. A terrible law, of course.
Good heck. There was an Elder in my mission who never worked and who the Elders suspected was gay. He even made out with a companion but nothing happened. He's now a Seventy because he came home and went to BYU and got married, because he said he would become a Church leader, and rich and successful. We all said sure sure but he was very ambitious even in the mission field. He downplayed the making out with his companion and the mission president believed him because he was a good Utah boy. I saw him speaking once in Conference and my mouth dropped.
Listened for 40 minutes before reading the title. For sure I thought you were reading the words of some off-base LDS extreme member. But this is Holland? 😢
Thank you for this! I would love to see a video of a deep dive into the church’s financial system and all their money making ploys. For a religion that preaches to not be worldly, they sure seem to do the opposite…
Wild, Wild County is awesome. Probably my favorite doc right next to Jinxed. It was a bit triggering, but worth it. The lawyer who had unquestioned believe in the Rajneesh is basically my dad. “It was all part of his plan!” said the lawyer, even after his commune implodes from failure, the domestic terrorists who were his lieutenants rebel against him, and he dies an “ignominious” death. That level of disconnection from reality was so reminiscent of JS and the early church.
