I was only told I had a certain "light in my countenance" after I had decided the church wasn't true and it was twice by older spiritual women, they said "looking at you, I can see the light of christ in your face, you're clearly a true believer" it was hilarious
I got the "you never really had a testimony" from my bishop. We were new the ward so he didn't know me but still a shitty thing to say to someone who spent so much time and energy promoting this terrible religion. Oh and I LOVE your song. It's beautiful
I came out to my parents two weeks ago. My dad handled it very well but my mom sobbed and told me over and over that I was losing my children by doing this. It took every ounce of me not to snap on her but I was able to gently explain why I believed that was a gaslighting lie.
My oldest sister said this. Now she’s the only sibling who still believes. Hope she gets out one day because she’s super liberal and feminist and the church doesn’t have much for her.
I was told if I was worthy I could raise my baby again in heaven. She was kidnapped by her dad at 9 months old. I found her when she was 30. I converted a few years before I found her. Hearing that myth was very painful. It reinforced the idea that my unworthiness led to her kidnapping
My grandma presented ornaments of every temple my cousins were married in during a family gathering. She approached my husband and I saying she would get us one when we finally did the right thing. Then one of my cousins approached us clutching the ornament and said, I got my temple wedding in a teasing voice. Wow. Wow.
I lost my daughter earlier this year in a custody battle, and I don’t know when I’ll see her again. My heart was in a place that allowed me to more easily accept that the church isn’t true. Fortunate timing I suppose. The church certainly didn’t help our family stay together, and I see the same with believers. You are right- there are some messed up judges in Utah. Glad to be out.
One of the worst things I was told: in the next life time works differently. We will be busy in the celestial kingdom and anyone that isn’t there will really miss us. We will try to remember to visit them sometimes. This was told to me as a young CHILD. What is scarier than being told you’ll be separated forever from your family if you aren’t good enough?
“It’s just a phase” - my mom, a former Catholic who raised us to strictly Episcopalian protestant but then converted to Unitarian Universalist when I was an adult. I still feel resentful because she gave herself the opportunity to explore and change her beliefs but not her kids. I also feel unhappy because she immediately got hired at the UU church as director of children’s ministry and it’s like ok, so no matter what you believe you need to indoctrinating children?
If you have time, I’d love to hear more from you about your perspective. I hadn’t thought of it that way before. I was raised a preacher’s daughter in the Navy (dad was a 30yr Navy Chaplain). As an adult, I take my kids to a UU church here in the Seattle area. My upbringing was one where church was a must, so church community feels natural to me. I like how the UU church offers access to service projects for my kids & other ways to participate in social justice initiatives like Black Lives Matter. I also want them to have their own spiritual foundation. We live in the suburbs where mega churches exist & my kids have been invited to fun events at these churches where the goal is to make new converts for Christ. Them having a “no thank you. I have my own church” is a tool I want them to have. Anyway, it’s not about indoctrination for me, but maybe I’m missing something. Please let me know if there’s a way I can think about this even further. I was really interested by your comment. Peace. 💙
@@letahamilton2754 sorry I don’t check comments much so I missed this. I’m sure UU is fine it just bothered me that she just changed her beliefs and immediately jumped into teaching kids a new doctrine. After years of teaching us and other kids another message. I guess I just wanted her to reflect for half a minute.
When my parents called on my mission after I announced I was coming home early, the first thing by they asked me was if I was gay. I'm not, but it's interesting that that was the first thing they went to
“I’m losing my daughter” from my dad… I idolized him, I was 16, and hadn’t even left the church I just told him I was questioning. I was crushed knowing that he only saw me as that set of beliefs, it was like he didn’t see me as a person.
I'm glad to hear about therapy because it's so helpful. I'm really sorry he said this to you. Especially as a teenager it seems that would make a person feel unsafe and possibly unloved or unworthy. It would definitely trigger my abandonment issues. So anyway just wanted to say I'm sorry you experienced this and am glad to hear you're doing well ❤
I haven’t told my parents that I’m leaving and I’m honestly terrified! 😳 this is a reason I resent the church so much. It makes people in the church think that the people are leaving are practically dead. Dead spiritually at least.
@@marksandsmith6778 I’m doing good! Still haven’t told em. I am still a minor and I don’t feel comfortable telling them while still at home. I don’t want things the get weird while I’m still living here.
It is the complete opposite... The Mormon Believers are spiritually dead. They look dead and do not admit a certain light, Etc. There is no life in their eyes. A good term might be The Walking Dead.
@@lacigold6627 sorry i haven't got back to you. Just keep going. Just keep reading. It might help to keep a list of shelf contents. Some might be quite light hearted like... Book of Ether ... at the time of writing the Book of Mormon there was a big ether and chloroform craze
The point about parenting is so right on. I was very inactive when I got pregnant with my first child. I was brainwashed into thinking I couldn't be a good mother unless I raised my kids in the church, and I remember clearly thinking that a non-mormon couldn't possibly be as good a parent as a mormon. I know, that's horrible. Brainwashing is real. The conditioning ran so deep and it was something I didn't understand back then. I just felt compelled to go back to church and raise my child in it. I thought "The Spirit" was telling me to do that. So I did. I went back and stayed in for another 20 years, subjecting my kids to it, as well. I feel horrible about trying to force my oldest son into the church box that he so didn't want to be in.
1. Your track is a banger! It’s on repeat in my car. 2. Two years out and I still haven’t told family, because I know my sister would be on a plane here to stage an intervention and I just can’t deal with that. 3. Really loved this video. Very validating!
TW: drinking and suicide My mom likes to list off people that I would affect by leaving or if I choose to speak out about leaving. One of the people she mentioned was a cousin that was out of the church for about 35 of her 40 years of life and reconverted 2 years ago. She said that cousins’ husband that recently reconverted after his parents left the cult in his teens would (tw) revert to drinking and end up committing suicide if I told my family I was leaving the church and lived my liberal agenda. That‘s one of the moments I finally realized how brainwashed and manipulative my mother is. This is the same cousin my parents used to tell me was lost and I never should look up to. The judgement and utter ignorance of the way some of these people think is so scary. It’s a cult through and through.
This is especially troubling for me. I wasn't Mormon, but my run of the mill evangelical church growing up had so many of these bad beliefs. Even you saying Mormonism doesn't have a monopoly on happiness, but similar. My church DEFINITELY thought they had the monopoly on happiness. It was always assumed that any non Christian's motivations are always selfish.
Most Mormon’s love is conditional, not like Jesus of the Bible taught. When Mormons say, “I’m sad for you”. They are projecting their emotional instability on others, this is so immature and pathetic. We are not responsible for the happiness of others. It is liberating when you realize that!😊
It's been over 20 years since I've been to church and I STILL get the "you'll be back" speeches. When my cousin died I was told he was dying (slow brain tumor, thanks Jesus!) to teach me how to live. Luckily I was already an adult by this point and used to the guilt and manipulation so by the time I got around to hearing "looks like the wrong one died" it was a lot easier to deal with. I wish I was nicer to the missionaries they sent around to harass me though. They got the same treatment the rest of us did.
I just ran into a ward member at the grocery store who started the convo with “We got a new Bishop…” Yes, the last bishop very CLEARLY showed me that there was no divine worthiness to the calling (he was a xeno- & homophobic piece of garbage). But it took all my effort to not react.
I don’t know what I’d do without you guys. I’d be wandering through life much much more confused. You are so eloquent and I’m in awe listening to you and Tanner.
I left while at BYU ten years ago. I feel very fortunate that my family handled it with only minor drama and even my extended family kept their opinions to themselves. I don’t remember too many annoying comments except the question “but what will you believe now?” Um….science? My own experiences? Reason, empathy? I guess I was never too mormon in the first place because this question made no sense to me. Do most mormons have no beliefs formed outside of church? I had always been in the headspace of comparing the church’s stances against my own reasoning and finding the church rather lacking.
A member of my old ward started at my job recently. It's a bit scary seeing as I now have facial piercings and am openly transgender. I guess we'll see how it goes.
My mom thinks I left because some people offended me... I'm not easily offended and I can honestly say no Mormon has ever achieved that. I left because I realized it's all a bunch of horse shit.
Just got this recommendation frim You Tube. I had enough as of 2 weeks ago. Iam gay and told to marry. I dont feel welcomed anymore. Iam done with the LDS toxic standards.
Hey Sam, i haven't even started the video yet, but i just wanted to say thank you because in one of your previous videos you recommended some cool vegan RU-vidrs and now I'm trying to go vegan, so thanks!! (:
Ok this comment made my day! Good luck on your journey! If you’re interested in the sustainability aspect, and you’re not already familiar with the channel, check out Shelbizlee. 😊
I get, "I'll pray for you" all the time. As if they think if they pray for me, then it's okay for them to continue associating with me. Like, it's for THEIR spiritual well-being and not mine.
My mom did the whole "mourning the life I wanted for my kids" and I explained to her that #1, she shouldn't set expectations for exactly how she wants her kids' lives to go but also #2, I understand it's not her fault she feels like that, since the church has set her up to feel that. And finally, that, #3, while it's valid for her to grieve and she's allowed to and probably needs to, that's not something she should share with me as her daughter. Her feelings can be valid without me having to be responsible for them.
Conversely, if your life is good outside of mormonism, people think that Satan (and his army of helpers) isn't tempting you anymore because they don't need to. You belong to Satan now so you can have a nice, cushy life. This is what my mother thinks of me. My life is good, and I'm happy, so that must be because Satan is not throwing trials/tribulations into my path anymore.
I just recently ended an emotionally abusive relationship with a man that was lds. I got baptized for him about a year ago but I have always had problems with the church and every time I would tell him, he would tell me "WE need to try more in the church and really pray and read scriptures" like if that would fix my feelings on the racism and sexism of the church? He wasn't very active himself but wanted me to be the perfect mormon. Cant believe I let a MORMON control my life for almost two years. Finally got the courage to end it and do whatever I want without anyone else's validation!!
Not an ex-Mormon but ex-conservative Christian and had a friend ask if I’d keep searching for the truth. I tried responding with a reassurance rather than snark, but I think it probably came off with some condescension. I more wanted to retort with why do think I’m at this point to begin with? Like with a lot of these, I think they were well-intentioned, but it’s a question that’s very telling with how little they’ve considered the motivations of many who deliberately reject their faith.
When I tried to explain my change from moron oops! mormon to Catholic, my brother tried to quote a scripture from Job to say that the blessing I had received as a mormon would be taken away by God, and totally messed up the quote. when I corrected the quote and said I'd trade peace of mind I had found in the catholic church, for all the lonliness, stress and depression of the mormon church, he told me I was dead to him and I would never hear from him or anyone else in the family again. Shortly after that my other brother, sister and all but one niece have totally dropped me from all social media and have never contacted me again. Only one cousin on my mom's side keeps in touch, but funny enough my husbands cousins, siblings and my fathers side of the family are all still in contact and more of them are intiating contact all the time. It really hurt the first 24 hours, but when I think of all the friends, love and support I have found in my parish I don't even miss them anymore. It;s funny for a church that teaching love, acceptance and importance of family that they would be so bigotted.
My friend and bishop pretty much said I would be a bad parent if I didn't let the kids attend. Great. Over 99% of the world doesn't take their kids to the LDS Church and they seem to cope.
Do you believe he was trying to offend you or that he did not word that correctly? My guess is that if he is your friend, then it is more likely he did not word that correctly. I would rather have my kids in church, any Christian church, learning about God and how to serve and care for others, than I would want them to be at home on youtube, tiktok, twitter, or any other social media being taught values by influencers who are just out to make a buck. What we do not believe anymore as a country, but what was once believed is that there are eternal truths. People will not find those eternal truths by watching TV, playing video games, on social media, etc. People mock religion, they mock God. Train up a child in the way that he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it
Thanks for this! I have experienced a lot of these conversations first hand. Sucks. But thanks for also saying "hey let your parents grieve, it is hard for them too" makes sense.
@@ZelphOntheShelf I like the idea of rewording problematic verses to highlight the problem in the doctrine. Change a “skin of blackness” to a “skin of whiteness.” 2 Nephi 5:21.
Mormonism tries to keep you a child, unable to think for yourself and has a strong grip on you. It takes time to those raised decades in the cult to decompress and rebuild our foundation. It’s okay to grow up people!❤️
I'll tell you what, nothing, I mean NOTHING gets you off the "would you like to say a prayer" list faster than closing "in the name of Lucifer, Lord of Flies, Amen". Haven't been asked to say a single prayer since.
Yeah, I really hope none of my parents or grandparents ask me to stay in the church while on their deathbed. It doesn't matter if they're about to pass away, they are using their own deathbed to manipulate me into a commitment that they have no business asking of me. A person's ideological affiliation is their own personal decision. Someone who would have the audacity to do that to me would lose my respect for them. It doesn't matter if they're on their deathbed! They know what they're doing in making that kind of a request under the circumstances. It just lets you know that their controlling nature hasn't changed from their adolescence, or whenever it started for them, to their death. They always kept that character flaw, and never got over it. And that's really what it says about them more than anything in my opinion. It says more about their controlling tendencies than it does about their respect for your ideological freedom. It's really sad that occurrences like that happen, but it shouldn't be an issue for the non-believer. Unfortunately, it places the non-believer between a rock and a hard place. Are you going to let your family member or loved one die unhappy because you didn't agree to their deathbed wish? Or are you going to agree to it, possibly in front of other family members, but then live your life chained to the commitment of a person who's no longer even alive? Or go back on it and garner the condemnation of your other family members by not keeping their deathbed wish? I really hope this does not happen to me. It's not right. It's manipulation and anyone who leverages their own deathbed to rope someone into a major life commitment shouldn't be deserving of respect. edit: Let me put it this way. If someone wants their last final act in this world to be the manipulation of a family member, well, that's their decision but I'm not going to play along with it.
The custody one really gets me. Like they were all shitty but that one made me shiver, the idea that some judge with a bias and a self-righteous ex might try to stop someone seeing their kids because of beliefs. what the fuck.
Sam I just checked out your song!!! Loved it!!! You have a wonderful voice and your lyrics are moving. I’m about to go back on Spotify and see if you have anything else on there
I kinda think that the both sides argument is just allowing current followers an excuse to treat people like shit. There shouldn't be both sides when one is telling the other one they're a terrible person and going to suffer forever
I believe understanding and having empathy for “the other side” better equips us to navigate things healthily. I also firmly believe in setting appropriate boundaries and not letting people treat you poorly! I don’t think the two need to be in conflict.
@@ZelphOntheShelf i guess I just don't believe that I have should have empathy for someone supporting and upholding a system that has hurt SO many people
Leaving a religion is so much easier when it isn't high control, which is something that a lot of people who try to shame cult members or ex cult members don't understand. I am so fortunate in that leaving religion has been easy for me since coming to terms with living without a god. For me, leaving religion doesn't come with any external changes. And I think that some people who shame cult members have had the same experience, where the only change that occurred when leaving religion was internal. On a note unrelated to the video: there's a weird mormon family vlogging niche on YT. Many of them aren't super open about it, but they have tons of subscribers, holy fuck! It's a bit scary to know how much money is getting funneled into the LDS through these channels. And don't get me started on many of the very questionable parenting decisions that a lot of them make. It's a big bowl of yikes.
The truth is that those without religion may be more moral because they don't have a religion to somehow rationalize things. The murder one makes me laugh because you only have to go a few chapters into the Book of Mormon to see that murder is okay and definitely better to murder than let people fall into non belief.
Yeah; so, most of the things 'believers' say are based in 'believing'. Most of the hate comes from the fact that they know as well as you do that mormonism is false; this is key. But, to admit it is the apex of threat... Most of the things they say are completely mitigated by the knowledge that mormonism is in fact 'false'. Once the critically minded person realizes that mormonism is false, there is not any way ( or other way ) that would allow for 'coming back'. Coming back is not possible. Leaving a high demand religion ( or cult ) is the most loving thing a person can do for their family and friends 'in the cult'. Leaving is the strongest ( most threatening ) statement about the high demand religion ( or cult ) that a critical thinker can make.
My gut tells me that if you are grateful for what you have and for people and experiences etc. , you will receive more things to be grateful for. You can label them blessings or whatever label you choose.
Lmao so I was in the mental hospital when my dad called me to say that when my mom went through my drawers to bring me clothes she "found evidence that I had been doing the nasty and I needed to get down on my knees and pray because that is why I tried to kill myself " I went no contact for the rest of my time in there because it triggered some bad religious trauma
I'm 15 and lowkey, I really want to leave the church. they do have things that i believe in but a lot of it, i dont. Even if i did, i think i would want to leave. I dont really know how to describe it to be honest but i really feel out of place and like its just not where I need to be. The main things that bother me is how strong they are about needing marriage, how girls cant lead anything, and the whole prophet thing. I'm just scared because i've been going for so long and like, what if they are right and i'll leave and be doomed or something. Also, i know my parents would be pissed and all of my friends would leave me. There was another girl who used to be in my ward but she left and let me tell you, they talk about her life shes a murderer or something. does anyone have any advice?
💜💜💜💜I really liked the book “Untamed” by Glennon Doyle, it talks about how to make good choices for yourself and not betray yourself for others. I think it could be really valuable for this! Good luck, that’s a hard thing to be going through.
i think its funny one of the keys to mental health is not setting up expectations and that is all Mormonism does + crosses boundaries. No wonder there is so much anxiety / depression in and out of the church. Its like we both are going through toxic withdraw of a faultily constructed reality. Both sides have a hard time with acceptance of what is... all i know is im done with the tug of war, differentiation could be the ultimate goal. maybe outer darkness isn't such a bad place. ;-) (death cab for cutie - I will follow you into the dark)
mormonism has NOTHING do to with faith. Faith, the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen... no. mormonism is NOT faith; because it can be established as false with evidence and critical thinking alone. No faith is required. If the body of evidence leads a critical thinker to discover that their faith has been false, then the evidence of THINGS SEEN, trumps and in fact nullifies the evidence of things unseen. False faith is no faith at all ! For believers to tell non believers that they do not have enough faith, or no faith, is yet another form of gas-lighting! ... shameful, manipulation.
@@ZelphOntheShelf mainly but not exclusively because they never believed it in the first place one Mormon woman I was friends with posted on Facebook the statement that we in the sanctity of life but you could tell it was just a copy and paste statement from the church she left about 3 years ago and now is pro choice
I am an ex-Mormon and I fully believed in the church and fully believed abortion was wrong. But then my beliefs changed as I learned new information. It’s common for high-demand religions and cults to say that people who leave “never really believed in the first place”.
Honestly good video, gaslighting might be over used but "youre not doing it right" is a genuinely pathetic justification that completely ignores the real lived experience of people, I guess youre just not as saintly as you though you were. Also what was that saints unscripted video with Nuance Hoe, I kinda wanna watch that.
I have not heard members attacking ex-mormons. The church is made up of people from many cultures, backgrounds, political views. No two people are alike even though they attend the same church. People are fallible and some people are judgmental, but that is not the majority of people. Like I said I have never heard members say things like this about people who left the church. I'm not sure what the point of this video is? Is it to say that all LDS are exactly the same and think the say way and say the same things? That seems more harmful than helpful.
How interesting, I was a member for 6 years and went to BYU and I heard it all the time. I even said lots of things similar to these while extremely devout.
@@ZelphOntheShelf So what are you saying? Are you saying that is not true that people in the church come from all different countries, cultures, backgrounds, etc? Are you saying all 100% of the people in the church are judgmental and make comments similar to what is said on your video? I have been a member of the church for 7 times longer than you have and have not heard comments like what you present. Please advise.
I haven’t said either of those things and I’m baffled that you have extrapolated my words into that. I can only assume that you are deliberately interpreting me in bad faith and are not interested in understanding other people’s experiences that are different from your own.
