Real Talk: Is There A Tatum and Brown Redundancy Issue? 

It’s a fair question, like lillard and cj got redundant after awhile. It happens it could be said about a lot of superstar pairings

@@cameronpalmer401it’s not that it’s not a fair question it’s the fact he won’t give a real answer due to job security

@@cameronpalmer401 "it could be said about a lot of superstar pairings" what superstar pairings would you say that about

@@haezeushawkins436 but do you think there is redundancy and is that a bad thing

@@cameronpalmer401 It's a lot easier with tall mobile wings than two undersized guards. They just need to learnt o play off ball, because both of them are bad at it. And some of that is coaching. Milwaukee is horrible at it and it had handicapped them for years, despite winning a championship.

Elderly

You made me think JJ was 42 for a second.

Jrue Holiday is only 2 years younger than Joe

Horford IS 2 years older than Joe...

You have way more leeway and wiggle room with 2 star wings compared to 2 guards

⁠@@gilly2026especially when ones a 6’9 30 ppg shot creating, defensive rebounding, 1st team all nba and high level defending forward😂😂

its a problem if they use 70 percent of the cap on double supermax.

"because they have made it to the conference finals several times and to the NBA finals." some people talk like it getting to the Finals doesn't count, getting to the conference finals doesn't count to those people, the only people who accomplished anything were Jokic, Murray, Gordon, KCP, and Bruce Brown

Jordan won his first championship at 28. Lebron won his first championship at 27. Curry won his first championship at 26. Tatum and Brown are both 26, they've been to the conference finals 4-5 times, finals once.

Totally agree

Well said man and thank u for ur service in the army

TBF both Brown and Tatum aren't great ball handlers in space. Rather I think playing thru their new big in a Jokic type fashion allows for easier looks. I also think Tatum needs to take advantage of the post against smaller guys. Basically a pick roll on the side for JT to JB with JT in the post and JB flaring out for a catch and shoot 3 or Tatum taking his man one on one.

There just really isn’t a way for them to play off one another based on their current skillsets. Neither is a great passer, Neither is an elite shooter, Neither is an elite ball handler. Neither is a dominant post player. Thus, all they can do is basically go 1-on-1. Which makes the pickup of Holiday confusing. He doesn’t really help with playmaking. As a result, you end up with the same situations in close games. I think Tatum is legit, but playing Iso for last 3-5 minutes against good teams in the playoffs is tough. This has really only worked for Jordan and Kobe. That’s about it. Porzingis is a nice option for post-up. But he’s not dominant. No one is going to double Porzingis. So you are basically taking the ball out of the hands of Brown and Tatum to just watch him go 1-on-1 🤦‍♂️

@@Jroddxilla that means you got to get more off the ball stuff working. Look at Jimmy butler. He is not a great one on one player but he proved you can be great by doing the little stuff. Why can't jb and jt take a page out the jimmy buckets playbook of cutting, post ups, etc.

@@jman1562001 I think Jimmy is a little under-rated. He’s a really Good Passer and Ballhandler. He doesn’t get rattled and rarely turns the ball over even in bad spacing possessions. The Heat also have Lowry and Herro as primary ball handlers. Not sure you followed Lowry during is Toronto days but the Raptors were always at the bottom of the league when it came to turning the ball over. It’s hard to run real offense when no one is a good passer or ballhandler. The Celtics have Scoring and Talented Defense Players. When spamming 3 point shots doesn’t work, the offense looks really bad. This shows you the Celtics have probably been the most talented team in the league for several years. All the other contenders have at least 1-2 elite passers to keep the offense moving and get quality shots. Denver, Lakers, Suns, Golden State, Heat, 76ers. Not the Bucks, but you can include them now since Dame is on the team. The Celtics are still relying on defense 1st combo guards to play point guard. And forcing Tatum to be the primary playmaker and scorer which is a little silly.

Cause Spo had Riley to mentor him and both created a culture that requires maximum effort to the point that practices are harder than games. Plus Jimmy is nearly a decade older than JB so his game is naturally not as developed @@jman1562001

This mf spittin

Nah, Celtics revolve around Tatum and Brown.

@@CleanMusicLover229 Obviously. You're not understanding the difference.

20 Lakers: Also 'playoff Rondo' as secondary handler off the bench

The point is how an offense is initiated. Where Lebron Jokic Steph stand out being able to both score and distribute. Meanwhile the C's don't really have that. This isn't the triangle with Kobe or Popovich's .5s offense. Neither of these guys on the Cs are Melo when it comes to iso, for instance, so you reach a bottleneck in crunch time@@CleanMusicLover229

Say what? He's remarkably non specific in 90% of the answers

Well I mean there is if they both do the same thing

@@dandan4092 but having two players who can dribble the ball well is a bad thing? having two players that shoot 3s well is a bad thing?

@@dandan4092the more talent the better

@@justanobody0 yeah but there's limited cap. I'd rather have two supermax players with different skillsets than the two Js, it's not bad that they're similar players but the team gets less value for the contracts than they could.

@@tommymy210 yea, I hear you but does that mean Phoenix will be bad this year? how much redundancy is there with Beal, Booker, and Durant they got rid of Chris Paul who was "less redundant" if we choose those words

This guy looks and sounds like he’s 16 !! No NBA player would take him seriously 😂😂

Was saying the same damn thing man

Ok setting a reminder on my calendar ten years from now

I’m a diehard C’s fan but you two are smoking rock. This dude will be fired if they don’t make the finals this year

I’ll come to this post in 8 months if he’s still head coach

🌽

Barely it’s always a pull up jumper anytime it’s in his left

Jaylen can actually use his left hand. Twitter and people like you just like to hate and force an agenda because no one was saying this in the regular season.

@@allonisaacs8765he has the highest turnover rate in the NBA of any 20 point scorer man shut up

@@allonisaacs8765literally any Celtics fan said this in the way before this year and have been saying this for multiple seasons wtf are you talking about???

Dude he's one of the youngest coaches in the league and lacks like any mentorship say, the way Spo had Riley. Not to mention that even elite coaches make comparable blunders, i.e. Duncan being on the bench in '13 in game 6 very late in the game.

😂😂

I agree but this is the approach of a lot of big name coaches out there, too. Doc and Ty Lue come to mind

He seems relatable in his way of seeing things, definitely different type of persona than the usual nba head coach but I’m not impressed by his insights. I don’t believe him to be the next big thing in coaching.

There’s like 4 or 5 good coaches in the nba and the rest are terrible.

@@HiAxl lol 80% of the last five championship winning coaches were fired so clearly what you said a bit off

Exactly down low, and on the block alot like how Doc used Paul Pierce that mid range would be perfect for him cause Tatum can do so much work down there.

1 that’s it. They have yet to do it

1, when they get eliminated in a non-embarrassing way

@@devanventurino6389 they made it to the finals doe I mean it's a moral victory 😂

One time… winning 16 playoff games

Hell no

I think so if their skillsets can’t be maximized. Team construction is a little goofy. You have Two Stud Athletes on the wing. Feels like the Celtics should be a team with a real point guard that plays uptempo. I just think they should be playing faster. But they keep electing to get combo guards to run point which forces Tatum and Brown handle the playmaking. Which neither is really good at.

@@Jroddxilla I think that narrative is completely overplayed about their ball handling. JT might be the best above 6’9 and JB has a weak left but still blows by elite defenders. I also disagree whole heartedly with what you think they need. Committing to 2 way play, all 5 starters are defensive locks and also shooters. I would ask what about their skillset is limited since that is your point?

@@Ziddy2349 I agree, the narrative is a little overblown. But it’s because they are being asked to do something which makes them a little uncomfortable. The Celtics are asking them to be playmakers and create offense for everyone. I personally think, they should be looking to score. Tatum is a gifted scorer. But once you add the playmaking aspect, then you get the turnovers. They will never see the floor the same as real point guard. So, they will most likely continue to struggle with turnover issues since the Celtics keep electing to get combo guards instead of a real point guard. Tatum and Brown limitations: • Great size fit their positions, but neither has a legit post game. • Neither is a great passer, both are average at best. • Neither is a great ball handler, both average at best. • Both need the ball to be effective • And neither is great spot-up shooter. They basically just take turns with the ball. Never looks like one helps the other score unless they get a fast break opportunity.

@@Jroddxilla I get that, they definitely take turns. But so does every all star duo. Both are great off the ball. What is Kyrie doing when luka has the ball? 2 point guards have a clear issue. With 2 wings, both receive the ball more without a true pg. they find eachother when they get doubled. I think something you are completely missing is they are respected as both scorers and ball handlers by the rest of the league Super young JT was just a shooter that was given space, over the years he was defended like a true superstar. Simply put, the pure point guard issue would limit both defense and spacing, and taking away what makes them unique. Tatum is a fantastic passer, not sure if you are just getting carried away with your point. The addition of Jrue will limit the turnovers without taking away from either player. You simply cannot be a gifted scorer without the playmaking piece

You sound stupid

Barring KD and the Warriors, I can't think of a single team in the last 30 years that won it all w/ two elite wings

its not dumb... Its very logical, they're great players who are unbelievable at what they do... however, it is the NBA and other coaches are extremely smart and can exploit the lack of variety that those 2 provide when they are on the floor together. Its like a prime Danny granger and Paul George playing together in 2012 on the pacers, the team greatly improved as soon as Danny went down cause the team gained more variety and had more options to produce a more dynamic offense that featured more playmaking and less iso ball, Allowing Paul George to flourish even more cause he was playing with players like Hibbet and Stephenson who COMPLIMENTED his game (Unlike the style that both Jaylen and Jayson play). I know they made the finals but that doesn't mean that its perfect the way they play. On the other hand, just cause I said all this though that doesn't mean that i think they should trade one of the two, i would only advocate for that if a truly unbelievable trade came up like Giannis, Luka or Curry for Jaylen brown or something ludicrous like that.. which obviously would never happen.

Them being redundant doesn't mean teams would not like to have those players btw

Its about ingredients to winning. There's a reason their offense stalls as the game progresses, because as fatigue sets in their lack of playmaking becomes more apparent. @@kaysheye7784

That’s not what’s happening. Jaylen’s lack of handle is over hyped. His real issue is lack of awareness. Don’t get me wrong he struggles to dribble but his decision making is a much bigger problem. Jayson is actually a pretty good passer, his turnovers will go down eventually

This. Analytics does not apply to Black Swans too.

This guy looks and sounds like he’s 16 !! No NBA player would take him seriously 😂😂

@@j5daniel182 Jimmy Butler: Ultimate Black Swan. In a best-of-7 series, it’s a very fine line between “regression to the mean” and “insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.”

Replace?

Most good 3pt shooters don’t play defense. If they do, they’re already sought after by the entire league

Guess the term '3 and D' isn't vogue? lol@@ry_an.

@@bumshka21 name one 3&d player available capable of being a starting wing that isnt on a hefty contract

Dunno what 'hefty amount' means but off the top of my head Dorian Finney Smith, OG Anunoby, Alexander-Walker and then to a lesser extent Wesley Matthews or Gabe Vincent@@ry_an.

Delaying the process with a coach that needs to learn how to COACH

This guy looks and sounds like he’s 16 !! No NBA player would take him seriously 😂😂

This guy looks and sounds like he’s 16 !! No NBA player would take him seriously 😂😂

Tatum wouldn’t have won the mvp if we did win that year it woulda been brown he was balling out

Nah, the only real disappointment is the first round exit to the Nets in 2021. If you're a contender every year that's the best fans can ask for. I agree last year they should have beat the Heat, on paper, at least. But they got out-executed to a ridiculous degree. And like, is there any version of that team that would have beat the Nuggets last year? If they'd made it past the Heat they might have been swept. The Nuggs were magnificent. Only the Suns took two games off them and it require Book and Durant to go bonkers. I see their problem as execution. Smart was a big problem, since I don't think he makes his teammates better and a lot of his vaunted defense is flopping and dirty fouls rather than true lock-up D. Diving on the floor is nice but sometimes it can be empty symbolism. The whole team would get into this thing with the refs rather than focusing on shutting down their opponent. My question now though is whether Jrue is any better. Brogdon was an average defender but a real point who made teammates better. (Yes, he has durability issues). Jrue is a better defender but older and isn't a true PG. So if their main problem is offensive stagnation in the playoffs against elite teams, how does this roster make that better? And don't get me wrong: I love Jrue's game. The Jays need to get much better at off-ball other than spot-up threes and stop trading iso possessions like they are dueling banjos. Mostly what Jrue adds is defense, and I think this was a counter to Dame in Milwaukee (where they also need to get MUCH better at off ball cutting, espeically Giannis. but at least now they have a deadly pick and roll threat. Just Giannis and their rookie coach: PLEASE get into off ball cuts with Giannis. It will be deadly because opponents can;t build a wall against that.)

??? Tatum was bad in the Finals

They could have led 3-1 Tatum just choked

@@David-iv6jeGiannis cuts all the time. There was one play where Giannis was in the corner and he was able to backdoor to the rim. It’s hard for Giannis to cut as he has 2 men glued to him at all times

This guy looks and sounds like he’s 16 !! No NBA player would take him seriously 😂😂

As a barber it can still be saved. Gotta cut it lower and stop getting a low taper with hooks his hairline too fucked up… real low Caesar cut with bald fade or high taper would work lol

@@MB-wu6dx he might gotta go derrick white bro and just chop it off 😂😂😂 go help the brother please

Huh. GSW had an innovative offense that involved two of the best shooters of all time and one of the best defenders of all time. Imagine adding KD to the '96 Bulls. The Cs don't have overwhelming talent like either of those teams

@bumshka21 defensively they don't have a draymond or a Rodman, but they have 4 of the best players at their position, and horford who can defend giannis better than anyone, and jrue and white who can defend Lillard well enough so that they can easily beat the bucks. That's all they have to do to win it all cause the west is playing for 2nd place.

@bumshka21 adding kd to the '96 bulls doesn't make the '96 bulls as good as the '17 warriors. Adding Durant to the '16 warriors didn't make them as good as the '96 bulls. You are retarded if you think a bunch of pussies like curry, klay, and durant would stand a chance against the greatest team ever from an era when the league demanded everyone actually play like men.

This guy looks and sounds like he’s 16 !! No NBA player would take him seriously 😂😂

Nah, Jordan's career really fell of a cliff once he added the fadeaway. Same for Olajuwon and even James Worthy. Horrible move 😉

if you think Tatum shoots fadeaways to any meaningful amount you do not watch the celtics

@@zach1690 fade aways step backs side steps all that

@@zach1690 he’s really good at making “bad” shots

@@zach1690Tatum be shying away from contact. Always looking to spin and dance around people. That’s easy to defend

They are more skilled offensively than Brown and Tatum. Kawhi can literally operate out of the post for the entire game while scoring and facilitating. Kawhi’s post game is nasty, teams typically start to send him which allows him to facilitate. Paul George is comfortable coming off screens and pin downs. Paul George doesn’t have the best handle but it’s better than Jaylen Browns. Tatum needs to get better at posting up. It would help the Celtics a lot. A player of his skill level should not be taking 9-10 Three Point Shots. He should be scoring all over the floor. He’s too talented for half his shots to come from behind the 3pt line. Brown needs to tighten up his handle. Force him left and sit a defender to his right to discourage him from driving right. Then Jaylen becomes a turnover machine.