@@genuwhine6782 that's exactly the problem IMO. There is an entire little economy (goomwave) of controller modders and they have a lot of clout, particularly on Twitter where they can (and do) denounce everything Hax proposes because... I dunno vindictiveness?
@@cjkmelee - Spot on. They're not ALL that pretentious, as there's a lot of really wholesome modders out there, but the vocal minority keep the others either afraid to speak or logged out of Twitter for good reason.
It’s an absolute shame that top players and fizzi say close to nothing about this publicly. The timeline where hax just let go of his beef with leff would put Melee into the space age
Jesus Christ you are deluded hax isn't some sort of saviour. PracticalTAS and other community figures talk about controllers a lot. Fizzi's only focus is ranked at the minute, don't put that responsibility on him.
@@NintenJoe I don't think big homie here is putting the responsibility on anyone besides Hax's. Dude is just saying that a lot of people no longer will share Hax's ideas in social media spaces and that does kinda suck. Like, if mango was out here talking about the same shit Hax just did the community would have implemented it in an instant. But people aren't and that's on Hax.
@@NintenJoe leffen keeps trying to unfairly selling out people such as Hax, Hbox and also ZeRo. I call Leffen a murderer after he and Jisu almost indirectly murdered ZeRo with slanders.
@@NintenJoe theres no pedestal, he's doing really good work for Melee's future, but not only is it not being implemented, its being completely ignored due to his social issues. There isnt even a discussion from any of the top players/ T.Os / commentators that is publicly available about these proposed changes. Hax screwed up big time socially, and the melee community is sadly not taking steps forward due to it.
Let's gooooooo! This just makes so much sense to me, it's bassically just fixing what is broken in the game and bring all controllers to parity with one another. Fantastic!
They should forget about Nintendo altogether and focus to grow the community over the new technologies. Follow Nintendo rules for little to no support is stupid, after all they have no interest in the game at all.
Do they have a choice? With the circuit Nintendo is wanting to get involved, and with the big house incident it’s risky to go too far outside Nintendo. I wish we could but it’s tough
every figurehead/top player i've seen even acknowledge this new version of UCF says "it will never catch on because nintendo would never sponsor an event that uses it" and then just leaves it at that. can you address some kind of way that it can be made invisible enough that nintendo doesn't know about it during tournaments?
@@GoMaDssb no, and it cant be used for 1.03 either, it's simply a dismissive statement people used to take themselves out of conversation they arent capable of having.
The community doesn't seem to be thriving because of Nintendos attention. It's just a carrot on a stick from a company that cares nothing about your scene. Cut the line and be done with it.
I really hope top players put their trust in this instead of complaining about B0XX controllers again, because this has a lot of potential. I'd love to see a melee scene where players aren't forced to play the controller lottery to get the chance at a fair fight, or without having to spend $150+ for a decent controller.
Anyone with their thinking cap on straight knows this 1.03/UCF 1.0 is objectively better. It's all about politics between the community and Nintendo, Hax, and so on. I hope we update UCF
It is objectively better. The only reason the politics has to happen is because the community has to decide if UCF will become mandatory in every LAN tournament. It creates a logistical problem that can be solved, but everyone has to agree.
5:05 "I know that branding is the only thing holding my work back" I'm glad you made this realisation. As sad as it is, that is how the world ultimately works. The majority of people are *not* technical experts and therefore make judgements based on how things make them feel. People respond more to a face they trust than they do to sound logic. The recognisable face is comforting, whereas the average person does not have the analytical skills to take comfort in sound logic. They can outsource their comfort to an authority figure they trust, rather than take on the uncomfortable feeling of making a judgement based on their own reasoning (and therefore accepting blame if they are wrong). I have been with you all along Hax and I've been following your arguments very carefully. I've agreed with most things you've put forward, but I recognise I'm only able to keep up with your technical discussions because I have both a heavy investment in melee AND a highly technical university degree under my belt. I am very used to technical language and discussion, but the majority of people aren't. You will not convince the average person with technical discussions, because they've already lost interest and disengaged before you can present your conclusion. I've lost count of the number of battles I've had to surrender due to an imbecile completely ignoring the mathematically derived facts I presented. But now I've learned an important trait of human nature from those repeated interactions. I now know the way I was presenting the information was flawed, and this came about by shifting my goal to convincing people, rather than merely presenting logic that was infallible (subtle but important difference). You've created a quality product here Hax, and that is the the major skillset you bring to the table. If you find marketing disingenuous then it is fine to accept that this is not a strength of yours and to outsource it to people who are skilled in that area. It would be an absolute shame to see what is objectively a step in the right direction for the melee community be drowned out by essentially drama. Remember there is a reason why companies dedicate half of their budget to marketing: it is the most important aspect of any successful product. There have been quality products that have failed because they did not make this realisation early enough. Don't be one of these failures because you are too stubborn to play the game (although I know that you won't because of the excerpt I quoted above).
HAX$ is actively trying to bridge the UCF controller fixes with his own 1.03 Memory Card fixes. The 2 parties have worked together before. For the benefit and future of Melee they can work together again to create a more superior product both for Slippi and tournament play. This would be optimal for the whole Melee community going into the future.
@@user-xz4pv2sw7u all of that slanders by Leffen and many other liars makes me want to destroy the smash community and rebuild it from smash. Also accusing celebrities for horrible things even if it were true or false, it hides the bottom of the pyramid who actually do.
Shame that like always the melee community will probably dig in its heels and resist any change, but once it gets through it will be great for everyone Edit: grammar
The more stingy we are with changes, the more we will inevitably try to accept the unfair conditions we have with the game. I don't want to accept randomness due to a controller, I want to accept the opponent's skill and my own. No johns, just good gameplay.
will there be a hidden ucf version of this mod for major organizers who may potentially be worried about nintendo? really hoping this gets adopted into play, but i feel like that may be what is also holding this mod back from being the standard. this might be a very dumb question, so if someone is able to correct me on this pls do!!!! appreciate what ur doing 4 melee, free hax ong
If it becomes UCF v1.0 (integrated with what is used in tournaments already), then there will undoubtedly be a "stealth mode" or whatever it needs to be called.
This is fine and all, just add custom controls. Limiting the only change to be Z jump is silly, just allow custom controls, especially when controllers like box are infinitely customizable + allow turning off tap jump.
I'm not gonna do a whole in depth write up here, but while I do think the boxx is pretty excellently designed in terms of its coordinate lock out mechanics that attempt to nerf it on par with GCCs, Dan's quote at 1:28 still demonstrates why digital controllers will always be superior in some regards to analog. Anything that involves analog travel time will be inherently inconsistent, while digital inputs don't suffer (at least in the same way) from this issue. Things like ledgedashing (even with C-stick drop to prevent fastfalls, which is still better on digital due to no accidental aerials), pivot jumps, empty pivots, etc. will never reach digital consistency, even with emulated PODE. Is this a game breaking issue (even at the highest level)? Probably not, but this also brings up another issue in that digital controllers offer the best of high and low PODE functions. For example, a controller (or Goomwave setting) with high Y axis PODE and low X will be able to perform flick pivot up and down tilts into the firefox notches, but will suffer in other areas such as ledgedashes and Samus' superwavedash. Digital controllers can perform all of these optimally and simultaneously, as well as many other highly technical but conflicting analog techniques. Yes you sacrifice certain analog values in the process (which analog players can't consistently target anyway), but imo box controllers will never be on a level playing field with GCCs until they further development on emulating analog functionality (and it may well never reach that point without some major compromise like the Smash Stick). That all being said imo the only digital controller that should even be in the conversation for the time being for high level tournament legality is the Boxx, the Frame 1 and Smashbox are completely busted and aren't even trying to balance themselves with GCCs by implementing the nerfs used to legalize digital controllers to begin with, despite (afaik) ripping off the design of the controller that successfully pioneered them. Also if any of my understanding of digital controllers is wrong, feel free to let me know, I'd feel much less uneasy knowing they're not as busted as I believe.
digital will always be superior to analog in certain areas but to compensate hax made the B0XX weaker in other areas, for example the pivot up/down tilt nerf forces you to wait a couple frames before being able to perform the move bringing it in line with doing an empty pivot on a GCC and then doing an up/down tilt. also frame 1 has all the B0XX nerfs except the pivot tilt and sdi nerfs
@@TenThousandTacos i agree that those nerfs are significant and that the frame1 should have them but acting like that puts it on the same level of brokenness as the smashbox is just ludicrous
I don’t think anyone is arguing that they are equally broken. But two days ago I got 3 frames of SDI on a Falcon’s backair due to lack of the SDI nerf on Slippi for b0xx. It’d be very difficult for me to argue in good faith that the ease with which I got that SDI is competitively fair
@@TenThousandTacos the original comment lumps frame1 with smashbox and calls them both completely busted and that neither of them are trying to balance themselves which is unfair to the frame1. i do agree though that being able to easily get 3 sdi inputs in a 3 frame window isnt particularly fair and i am in no way saying i think the frame 1 is fine without those 2 nerfs
I'm game. Anything to make my dogshit controller less dogshit. I'm casual enough that buying a $500 controller is stupid. But I'm good enough to know when my controller fucked up. Sadge life.
The death of hax fucking broke must happen for hax fucking money to rise once more!! Also you an actual legend for having metal battle enabled . That song is actually fire
While i understand some of the changes (Cardinal 1 for example) i do not believe most of theses changes are actually good for UFC. The point of UCF is not to make the game EASIER to execute, nor more consistent. It's to make the game less reliant on controller lottery. For example the Up-throw change and the smash DI change seems more like "help" then controller equality. These changes are very similar to the logic of automatic L-cancelling. it doesnt help with any unfairness, it only makes it easier. So i think what Hax presents is more a "Patch" for melee, which is a more controversial topic. I believe it needs to be separated from "Universal controller fix".
One very important thing in my opinion is that you NEED to consider that some people use X to jump more frequently than Y. I dont play spacies and I play smash since 64 for over 20 years and I use X to jump like 80% of the time so the Z jump remap only replacing X would be terrible for me I would never use that..
Valid concern, but it's an -optional- swap of X -or- Y with Z. Either hold X+Z or Y+Z on the CSS to activate one of them, or choose to do neither. Your needs have obviously been considered.
Hey, we still welcome you with open arms, buddy. I hope that controller isn't ruining your hands though. Is it alright? Do you have something like jump on one trigger and lightshield on another one?
@@Pslamist i mostly play very casual unranked and bots, so no hand worries here! I actually prefer it to the og gcc, cuz the face buttons are smaller and closer together. I put light shield on left bumper and no trigger for jump. Non optimal but whatever
No hax your obsessive open source and explained solution to controller parity isn't allowed In my free melee community we only like black box modded controllers running closed source code with different variations at any given moment
so, all the hype just to drop a video of things you've said 100s of times, and requested 100s of times but this time, just as dan salvato saying it too. I was atleast expecting actual confirmation that UCF/slippi have begun to impliment this. But, no.. its just a cry for help? just a video asking for them to join you? This seems like somethign that should be done via DMs, or Conference calls. im all for the changes, I was 15 videos ago but please stop doing announcement of announcement posts just to drop rehashed videos of what you've already stated/asked for. Great video, just annoyed.
you think the people that banned him and denounced his changes initially would be willing to talk with him about why his fixes are better than theirs in private? only way hes able to get them to even acknowledge the fixes is by getting a lot of people talking about them via these videos. i do think the overhyping of his videos gets annoying though
Although you may get annoyed - it's because change in Melee comes very slowly. HAX$ is calling for unity. This video has more implications than you are able to see today. Give it time to sink in. That's the only way change occurs in this community.
If you move to another direction eg drop down with left but accidentally go to down left then you get an aerial. Try to keep the stick movement as straight as possible.
Anything that makes sure that players like Armada don't drop out of tournaments because their particular controller doesn't work, that stuff is embarrassing Best of luck in getting things sorted, Melee community
The entire community SO quickly forgot how big of a deal this was. He decided not to play after literally traveling internationally just because of the controller problem. Wild.
I agree with snapback, but making pivoting and ledgedashing easier lowers the skill needed to perform such tech, thus allowing normal players to do extremely hard and precise things with little to no practice.
@@outcrazy6570 your respponse sounds exactly like what people used to say about shield dropping. And let's be real. When you got a pivot controller, it's not very hard to do them. But when you don't, it's damn near impossible to the point that you 'should' give up on the technique. It's simply too unreliable.
I think I agree with this mindset, and I totally understand where you're coming from. But I think the problems with nerfing the Boxx to match a Gamecube controller doesn't make sense from a technical and competitive perspective. Like... the whole mindset of the game is essentially "let's make skill the greatest deciding factor in matches" right? So, and this might just be my gap in knowledge, but where are the people that are saying "let's keep some of these buggy or unfortunate uncontrollable (heh, puns) issues and then also intentionally nerf the controller that has the capability of performing these things consistently to be that buggy and random?" I thought the whole intent of these fixes is to make the game exactly as the developers would have done given unlimited time and attention to a competitive scene that has so thoroughly dissected this game that they know essentially everything about it. So I still am in favor of the intent behind your words. But I think you'd be happy or at least feel things were fair if we made the Boxx and the GCC do almost exactly the same things, WHILE also fixing the crap that just doesn't feel fair, because that's not really how it's INTENDED to work.
While I get the sentiment, spend just a little time learning how to play B0XX on your keyboard (instructions in their Discord) before letting this feeling dictate your decision making. It will inform your understanding a lot.
@@ZeroDividesByYOU - Mostly the initial comment! Hax went so blindingly deep into detail in this enough times that I don't really address the issue anymore, other than telling people they should experience it first hand before discussing parity.
@@Pslamist ah gotcha. I figured as much but thought I should confirm before responding. Appreciate your viewpoint. I feel like my comment comes from a really interesting perspective considering I don't play melee. I've only ever played the games once, forever ago before I even knew a competitive scene existed. I played about... 5 minutes. Had no clue what I was doing. And honestly I have no desire to learn to play. I just love the technical stuff. I love how the game works, and how cool the competitive scene is. I know a lot about the game, but moreso from watching content on it rather than playing it. This gives me the unique perspective that I think allows me to be really accepting of these changes that Hax is proposing without feeling beholden to tradition or some feeling that the game needs to stay vanilla. It just doesn't. Modern games get patched to fix stuff. Nintendo isn't gonna fix this stuff that is clearly unintentional for us
Hax , while I do agree with most of what you are trying to say, you really really need to learn to stop talking in such a way that presents your opinions as absolute truth. Even if you believe them to be truth and even if many or most people agrees, the tone you take sounds like you are saying your opinion should be regarded as absolute truth of absolute perfection. Again, I agree with your points but man you really go out of your way to make it sound so suspicious for absolutely no reason lol
it is already a thing that several top players do with GCC, the most prominent probably being IBDW, Leffen, and Llod. it's out there, might as well give everyone access to it rather than forcing them to buy goomwaves or do hardware modifications
It’s silly how much this was hyped up when it’s literally nothing but a 13 minute summary of already existing videos that proposes slight rebranding. Him writing off the failure of 1.03 catching on as a new standard as “exclusively a branding issue” shows he’s not actually engaging with the concerns people had about it, such as Nintendo legality concerns.
1.03's UCF fixes falling under the umbrella of UCF2022 means that the fixes would have the same legality as current UCF, which IS used at majors, even sponsored by Nintendo. Stop this argument.
"Legality concerns" is an obvious concern troll because there is no concern at all. Using it as your only example proves that it really is a perception issue, and that if Dan Salvato had implemented all these changes into a UCF update you would have been totally cool with it
I agree with much of the content, but I still think the Box will be busted. An ASDI down button is the biggest issue, but also pivot up tilts are possible with that type of controller. No GCC can ever do that consistently.
Can you please stop spreading misinformation? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zqxfDUlyZPk.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-agVZ7PcE7ec.html
1. yes they can 2. the B0XX has specifically nerfed pivot up/down tilt so that its not busted 3. there are already ways to constantly be holding down on the c stick while using the face buttons on a GCC
@@rockstar57HD I'm open to being proven wrong, but c-stick down during neutral doesn't seem practical baring shenanigans like floss tied around your toe and the c-stick.
