Rock, Paper, Scissors: Three Master Duelist 

What? He was acting to manipulate anakin are you good?

@@charlesthepleb could it both? you can be terrified and also use all your forces of manipulation to stay alive.

​@@charlesthepleb It was only acting when he gave up at the end. He realized that he was losing the fight so he switched to manipulation to get Anakin to help him.

@@Arbidarb Yes and absolutely nothing before that point indicated he was afraid of windu. When people use their heads and compare the windu fight to the Yoda fight you can see how palpatine is constantly on the defensive trying to get away.

@@persuasivebarrier2419 No lol? He if was genuinely afraid he would have tried to get away like he did against yoda.

Ask Rhonda Rousey about this truth. Her last two fights were brutal, and both fought the same way. How would you describe the mindsets, etc. of these fighters in those matches? (If you are familiar with the fights and do not mind sharing some of your professional analysis.)

Mace had to be more confident considering how much had gone down between his fight with Palpatine and Yoda's.

​@skyden24195 Holm completely demoralized Rousey. She completely bought into her own hype, especially her stand-up. She had people comparing her to Tyson and Mayweather and telling her that! When anyone that knows anything about standup saw how awful hers really was. I imagine she thought "oh shit, I can't box whatsoever". With the Nunes fight I think she probably realized the skill level in her sport far surpassed her at that point. (If she had the time to think😅). Rousey had a terrible mindset. She contemplated suicide over a single loss.

@@Sad1stic I can totally see that. Rousey had gotten completely reliant on her grappling, and too often tried to employ her "trademark" armbar which opponents were easily becoming wary of. And as you pointed out, Rousey's striking/boxing game just could not hold up, also she was just taking those punches to the head with barely, if any, defense from both of her last two opponents. It looked like she was thinking she could just take the punches and get in to grapple, but those punches obviously dazed Rousey and she was no longer a functioning fighter. A slight personal sidenote, I've always found it amusing, grateful, and sad that Rhonda's last victory in MMA was actually fought on my birthday of that year. lol.

I don't think it was his first time, an infinite loop is what vaapad is and he has been a master of it for a long time. In books it's well known that he allows the dark side force energy to flow through him without being affected by dark side degradation by insulating himself in the force, so he has used the loop more than once.

Mace windu is actually quite lucky in that moment that finally his super obscure form is paying off because he's fighting literally one of the most evil sith to have ever existed. He would probably struggle against count Dooku because count dooku is quite reserved and constantly controls his emotions as an elegant gentleman, whereas palpatine is so evil, he's not even angry anymore He's straight up laughing and having a good time

​@@klaykid117 Dont get it twisted, Mace Windu is still an insane duelist that among the Jedi only Dooku and Yoda would even have a chance of besting. And in Legends his Force Power was the second highest in the Jedi Order.

Yeah he basically is that WOW player constantly spamming the same power or 2 over an over

I like it

But the point is objectively wrong because the only thing windu did was disarm palps. He didn't actually fight against him using the force which is what Yoda did. Yoda disarmed palpatine AND THEN fought a force battle.

@@charlesthepleb there was a force fight between windu and palpy after being disarmed. palpy just lost really quickly because he had no answer vapaad which is what allowed windu to attune to palps lightning, bring it into his saber as defensive measure and reflect back at palpy to mirror intent.

This is what I always thought anyways. Blue is a Guardian's lightsaber color. And Red is Sith. The force would know what he would become. So he either found an extremely rare purple kyber crystal. Or when meditating on a blue one it changed to purple. All of this cause Samuel L Jackson wanted a purple lightsaber.

he was also unique. a muggsy bogues in a world of big mfers.

He was a Gremlin not a Muppet

He's the Odd Job of episode 3. Tiny hit box.

Training is usually harder than the actual thing you are training for

I definitely agree that is true sometimes, but things like training for combat isn't usually one of them. There is simply no way to completely simulate combat, it's life or death when it's real and you can't know how far you can truly go to stay alive. I know we are just talking about Star Wars, but I feel like it still applies!@@maplemayhem1988

The Revenge of the Sith novelization actually explains how Sidious beat Yoda. Basically it was an avatar of the Jedi versus the Avatar of the Dark Side itself. Yoda never stood a chance (and the novelization explicitly says that he never had a chance).

@@jackwitt7430 Novel is not canon

Like you said in the ROTS movie Sidious states that the darkside has never been stronger, its also stated by Maul at the end of the CW. So not really head canon, the attack on the lightside started way before TPM

@@Smoothalcoholic Considering GenerationTech was using legends material and even references stuff from the novelization, its fair gain.

@@jackwitt7430 Legends is cool but i prefer Georges take on SW, not trying to shill, i just find most characters more interesting in the canon. Maces vaapad just being him but pissed of, always ready to take action but never crossing the line.

And after a few losses sometimes someone gets in your head, so you subconsciously start losing the second he gets a head of you on points or the second he successfully counters your initial flurry.

This analogy doesn't work because Yoda can and did beat palpatine. Windu only disarmed him, yoda disarmed him and fought a battle with the force

Therefore Yoda > palpatine > mace

Palpatine could have won the windu fight if he used the force

@@charlesthepleb Lightsaber duels are battles of the force *bleep*.

@@charlesthepleb he did use the force and he lost anyway. His force lightning got thrown back against him by Mace.

Mace beats Dooku overall only Yoda out lasses Mace but Sidious is stronger force wise but loses mostly because vaapad

Exactly: Obi-Wan being able to defeat Vader doesn’t mean he could defeat Dooku.

@@Mr-Rinn that's the other example I was thinking of. Fighting styles, psychology, and familiarity all goes into the equation.

Plo koon would teach him to channel his emotion into Djemso in a better way, both of them like piloting too. I think Mace would criticise Anakin more than kenobi did and he wouldn't teach him vaapad, Mace might be a good Jedi master but for a problem child like Anakin.

Now imagine that happening during Order 66 when Vader and the 501st marched into the Jedi Temple. I imagine something like this happening afterward. Sidious: "Lord Vader, how did it go with your mission at the Jedi Temple?" Vader: "Urrr.....ummmm......There are no more living Jedi left at the temple, my master." Sidious: "Good. All that's left of the once mighty Jedi Order is a handful of confused Jedi off world that can easily be dealt with." Vader: "But, master.....I..." Sidious: "Do not worry about your feelings at the moment, my young apprentice. You have done well. Now, go make preparations. By this time tomorrow, the entire galaxy will see what's left of the Jedi. We shall have a great burning of lightsabers in front of the empty Jedi Temple." Vader: "But many of the Separatist leaders are still alive. I'll go take care of them right now. Don't worry master, I won't fail you this time." Sidious: "Yes, go now." (Talking to himself) "I sense great fear in my new apprentice." 🤣🤣🤣

Obiwan is not a regular force user in any capacity and Dooku as well as Vader on the same tier Lool

@@Smoothalcoholic I don’t know if you would put Obi Wan lower or higher? And Dooku was very powerful. I would say Vader is stronger, but not by a big margin.

@@EwingAmaterasu Obiwan and Vader were on the same tier as Yoda/Sidious, Vader would force choke Dooku.

"Palpatine is not skilled" has to be the most stupid thing I've ever heard.

@@charlesthepleb not stupid you need to read the novel try explaining your miniscule knowledge of Star Wars . How often do you think Palpatine trained since he killed Plaguies? He didn't train . It's even stated in Revenge of Sith Novel. Thst when palpatine touched his lightsaber he hadn't trained in decades. Even in novel when he ran he was surprised he could run. All palpatine does is use his Emerson in Darksei to bolster his lack of skill

i feel like windu just had a fundamental advantage. it wasnt just about his aggressive lightsaber form, but also that he had mastered them all. if he needed to have kenobi level defense, he would just use that form for as long as he needs, flowing between them as needed. basically vaapad was good, but windu just made it seem even better than it was through personal skill.

He doesn't just match up perfectly against ju-yo, he matches up perfectly against dark side users in general.

@@BeanCasserole-wg7wu I disagree. His matchup against Dooku was pretty bad. I also think he is roughly even with Vader, who prime Sidious could speed blitz and beat easily (even without force lightning). Windu destroys Juyo and Ataru practitioners (and probably Shi Cho), because his counter-attack based form is great against aggression, but does not have as great a matchup against more balanced fighters.

@@thrawncaedusl717 When Dooku still used the light side of the force then yes I think Dooku could beat him, but the way Vaapad worked was that it was basically impossible for him to lose against dark side users once Mace successfully fell into Vapaad. Vaapad was essentially a trump card against the dark side.

One could say he learned from their experiences and his plan, Darth Plaugeuis' plan, was more in line with Banes philosophy.

Sidious comes from the Greek word sid ("slow" or "incremental") and the adjective ious ("to burn"). Sideous literally means "slow burn." Also, none of this is true.

He's named Darth Sidious for a reason. His name is a wordplay on the word "insidious," so his plan is exactly what his name means.

I think the argument here is that Palpatine didn't have to throw the fight because that one theoretical property of Vaapad turned out to actually work and elevated Mace Windu to Palpatine's power level (and he was already at Palpatine's skill level, and had Shatterpoint). But if Palpatine had really wanted to win (if it was actually life-and-death to him), he probably would have played it a bit safer and managed to run away once Windu disarmed him (like he did when Yoda disarmed him), at which point it's anyone's guess what the final outcome of the fight would have been. And if Windu had been less skilled, or hadn't seen the shatterpoint, or the Vaapad loop thingy hadn't worked, Palpatine would absolutely have thrown the fight.

Accurate

This is objectively false.

@@charlesthepleb Only Sith deal in absolutes.

@@charlesthepleb Yeah that's true, Mace Windu just can't lose when he's going against dark side force users because of vaapad. Mace Windu has even stated himself that he is not yoda's equal in battle or otherwise.

@@charlesthepleb Mace beat Jango,Talzin and Sidious as well as Dooku. There is no one in the Jedi order that could pull of that feat. also compared to Yoda, Mace fights much better with aggression and has great physicality.

@@Smoothalcoholic You're wrong on so many levels here. First of all Jango is a normal non force sensitive human. Obi wan beat Cad Bane someone who is objectively better than Jango. Talzan isn't a duelist, nor once again did she use her magika against windu in the battle, as for the dooku fight i dont know what you're talking about.

yep. and if he was like yoda, he would be a good master for dooku too.

Yeah. According to the book, Mace Windu saw breaking the window as a 'shatterpoint,' presumably one that would determine the outcome of the duel - though it may have been that Anakin having to look at Windu's dead body would have changed his perspective and later actions. But even if Windu did genuinely disarm Palpatine, Yoda did too, and Palpatine ended up winning that fight. I'm inclined to believe that Mace Windu actually defeated Palpatine and would have killed him if Anakin hadn't been there, and I'm not sure Palpatine fully understood how dangerous Windu would be; but this was absolutely a deliberate, calculated risk on Palpatine's part, and it paid off exactly as intended.

​@@samueldimmock694 I don't have any issue with him winning a lightsaber fight with palpatine, it's the idea that that _matters_ that I have an issue with, the entire point of the guy is that he is a sith who is entirely focused on indirect actions and broad scale focus and long term planning, he is one of the few people in-setting who actually understands just how mind-bogglingly idiotic most of them have been acting for the past untold thousands of years (that's actually where most of the rage and hate making him so powerful comes from). even in a straight up confrontation he is the kind of guy to notice that you just decided to go after him, wait a moment for you to be in a convenient location, then kill you from the next megastructure over while he is in the middle of giving a speech without so much as batting an eye because the part of his awareness actually running his body and dealing with the situation around him and the part using the force are almost entirely divorced from eachother. ideally he'll even do it in such a way as to set up a narrative for people to follow into working towards his goals because killing people *matters* so he would much rather set things up to have it matter in his favor but he won't be _to_ picky about that if you are actively making your way over to his office. how to say it succinctly...for Mace Mace started fighting Palpatine when he and his buddies all finished rambling through their little speech and took their ready stances but for Palpatine the fight with specifically Mace started way the heck back when mace decided to confront him and the small but pivotal skirmish that that fight was a part of in the larger war that he was actually engaging in started when Palpatine finally found out what was going on in the banking clans and he became aware that his cover was either already blown or soon would be. as dangerous as they were as upfront combatants they were hardly unmatched on the matter, what made force users of any stripe so powerful was the extreme ease of use and downright supernatural ease of _acquisition_ that they all got handed to them for soft power (whether they wanted it / could handle it or not sadly, probably the biggest that their galaxy is such a shitshow). basically a lightsaber is useless compared to almost any weaponry more serious than a basic blaster→even hardware as absurd as the death star really is weak compared to the power of things like the basics of proper planning and logistics→planning and logistics are a step below social engineering...though I wouldn't really call them weaker, just structurally subservient.

@@evernewb2073 True.

Black lightsaber since it matches his outfit. 😁

really i mean from the canon meanings @@shawn092182

and gets zero push back for surviving a fall down a huge shaft.... after being cut in two. meanwhile, palp surviving causes a huge uproar in "logic" with a movie around magic.

​@@persuasivebarrier2419yes but the death star exploded. Into space dust.

@@realBatman-89 yeah, after. long enough to escape, yeah? luke managed to slow-walk his father on the way out, have a nice end of times chat.

@@realBatman-89 If you read the Bane trilogy then you will learn about essence transfer.

@@persuasivebarrier2419 bro what???? He was thrown down the reactor shaft and you're talking about how slow Luke Skywalker walks??? 😂👍