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Rosebud's Bar Complaint Appeal Goes Up In Flames [Radio Free Mormon 350] 

Mormon Discussion Inc.
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The legal attack tactics on RFM continue and again with no success. This time it is Rosebud's appeal that gets the attention and as we might suspect it is Rosebud's appeal and not RFM's integrity and credibility that goes up in flames !!!!
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7 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 154   
@2latesmart62
@2latesmart62 26 дней назад
These women have really made a name for themselves!!!!!
@Wren402
@Wren402 26 дней назад
Does she think the Bar Association or a court will just take her word for anything without supplying evidence? Thank goodness our justice system won’t prosecute based on allegations without evidence. In this case the allegations aren’t even clear.
@flyingardilla143
@flyingardilla143 26 дней назад
'A general grievance against the world' - I'm stealing that RFM phrase.
@angiejones5918
@angiejones5918 26 дней назад
In each of these various complaint statements, I'm struck by how informal and disregarding of proof they all share. Showing a basic misunderstanding of what underpins law in every country. I keep thinking of the bigger picture of the influence of a religion that equates feelings as proof. Odd to see this type of thinking extended to the legal arena.
@rydiddy6233
@rydiddy6233 26 дней назад
Jenn should change the name of her group chat to the Comedic Relief Society, because RFM is getting a lot of content from these ladies.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
Yes, he is definitely taking advantage of people to make money.
@user-wc9ug1hl9v
@user-wc9ug1hl9v 26 дней назад
He has every right to discuss frivolous filings and attacks on him and his professional standing. Especially when they are based on lies. I’m quite sure RFM shares this info to expose the lunacy not for money. Get ahold of yourself.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
​@@user-wc9ug1hl9v And what if they're not based on lies? What if they're not frivolous? The documents are available. But you have to look for yourself, not count on RFM to represent them... and attorneys are almost never disbarred. That's a shot in a million. But I knew that before I filed the claims. I'm a Mormon woman, I'm very accustomed to losing... and to being made fun of by Mormon men. I've been dealing with this stuff for decades. It's the same thing over and over and over again. But again, if you want to figure out what's actually going on, you've got to be smarter than your average toothpick.
@MKUltra42
@MKUltra42 25 дней назад
@@mormonrosebudIs it really taking advantage when looney tunes are asking for it? 🤔
@Cosmically_Forsaken
@Cosmically_Forsaken 24 дня назад
@@mormonrosebudyou know who else acts like this Anne? The Mormon church trying to keep LDS members from speaking out against the harm done to them. Just saying.
@belalima5779
@belalima5779 26 дней назад
I don't have cable anymore. I follow this saga.
@TheSurlyBuddhist
@TheSurlyBuddhist 26 дней назад
How are these people not being fined and/or put in jail?
@crystaldavis3841
@crystaldavis3841 26 дней назад
Don't forget to hit the like button everyone! Gotta show RFM the love.
@pamelatd
@pamelatd 26 дней назад
Thanks RFM. What a wild ride.
@LoveMeSomeTrueCrime
@LoveMeSomeTrueCrime 26 дней назад
That is a bummer that you can’t get the recordings anymore. I love your content RFM and for the record I would be extremely confident in having you as my legal representation if ever needed! 😂 You are so intelligent and articulate, I love your channel and sense of humor!
@BirdNerdJC
@BirdNerdJC 26 дней назад
As a lawyer I have about 12 bar complaints filed against me by people who were loosing in their cases and had no other ways to win the case so as a last resort they waste your time filing a response to unsupported bar complaint. I wish there was a criminal statute against people who harassed lawyers with absolutely no evidentiary support. I'm so sorry but on the plus side, this is hilarious great content. Laughed my ass off. I wish I could read the complaints I got. It is hilarious when people who play victims but are actually the one doing the wrong, try to claim they are right. Keep it up. Keep your head up! Love your show and your reality of life! Truth will set you free always. Keep up the good fight RFM. Its sad but true, the more bar complaints you have the more evidence you have for how well you draw a line and defend the truth and piss people off for not making deals and folding under threats and pressure.
@JasonP313
@JasonP313 26 дней назад
I come from the other side of the spectrum. I wish it weren’t so easy for people to weaponize lawyers to file frivolous lawsuits. I feel that we ought to have the losing party cover all attorneys and court costs so as to make it more painful to just sue frivolously. Your take?
@user-qp3pu5yv1e
@user-qp3pu5yv1e 26 дней назад
⁠@@JasonP313that often happens Jason, lol. ;)
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
@@JasonP313 John was Plaintiff, not Jenn. Look at a document.
@JasonP313
@JasonP313 26 дней назад
@@mormonrosebud um… ok. I’m not seeing where I brought up John or Jenn in my reply. I couldn’t care any less about that case, I’m talking in general terms about the abusive weaponization of law.
@JojoMomoNomo
@JojoMomoNomo 25 дней назад
@@mormonrosebud , as I have mentioned elsewhere, Jenn sued John/OSF first and lost. She then continued to defame them, so they had no choice but to sue her to recoup the real financial damages she caused.
@debrac2897
@debrac2897 25 дней назад
You must be doing something right to be receiving so much persecution!! Isn’t that the Mormon line of thought - the whole “persecution complex”? Way to go RFM! Keep up the good work.
@sdfotodude
@sdfotodude 26 дней назад
She has been awarded a big basket of "thoughts and prayers"
@MKUltra42
@MKUltra42 25 дней назад
Tots and pears 🍐
@Ilikepopcorn.
@Ilikepopcorn. 25 дней назад
Man! If I lived in Washington and you were still practicing, I would love to be your legal assistant! You're freaking awesome!
@wandaAnthony2
@wandaAnthony2 26 дней назад
THIS ONE IS THE FUNNIEST YET. YOU BABs KEEP US INTERTAINED.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
RFM.... your followers are awesomely smart! What a win!
@rmj4978
@rmj4978 26 дней назад
This is ridiculous! She can’t even make a proper complaint! What is the complaint all about? Then is commenting in the chat! For real!! I bet RFM is having a right laugh! I keep thinking that there’s something in the water…
@barbiechopshop9538
@barbiechopshop9538 26 дней назад
I ♥RFM
@Jsppydays
@Jsppydays 26 дней назад
Poor soul, she should do a little time. This is now becoming harassment.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
This has been harassment for years. Are you sure you have the ability to differentiate between victims and offenders?
@chphotography28
@chphotography28 3 дня назад
​​@@mormonrosebudshow the proof or drop it. Just saying it's so doesn't make it so, as the bar is indicating here. And as various courts/bar assoc. have told jenn now multiple times. There has to be evidence that speaks to what you're accusing them of. So far time and again they're saying there isn't. Is there anything that could convince y'all at the point you're the ones viewing this wrong? Probably not.
@chavaira
@chavaira 26 дней назад
I really want to know the confidential spaghetti sauce recipe now, because I can only imagine what ingredient gives people the audacity.
@dianaendo1742
@dianaendo1742 26 дней назад
It’s always the basil.
@swlars193
@swlars193 26 дней назад
Bless her heart!
@dianaendo1742
@dianaendo1742 26 дней назад
Bad ass *itches was probably a take off of Atheist Assns Godless *itches. Thing is, Jenn would sit there like a bump on a log with John trying very hard to wring some participation out of her and there was almost always nothing forthcoming. She really did defame him by hopping on Rosebud’s sled. I’m sensitive to certain issues which gives me niggling doubts. Not John’s fault, but when vague seeds are planted by someone they don’t always go away. I’m glad this has so far been thrown out, but what a giant waste of time, money, and effort. Thanks for keeping everyone posted.
@rooheath
@rooheath 25 дней назад
Bad Ass Itches - sounds like you should be spraying something on that. Maybe speak to a doctor? 😂😂😂
@francescalyons1061
@francescalyons1061 26 дней назад
Omg I am experiencing second hand embarrassment for these misguided women. A word of warning to everyone... before you go into bat for someone else and put your own reputation on the line, make sure you are not being manipulated or lied to. Don't become an instrument of someone with mental health issues.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
Are you talking about me going to bat for John Dehlin for two years (2010-2012) despite his mental health issues? Or you going to bat for RFM despite his mental health issues? Jenn Kamp freely admits her need for therapy, and that is one of strengths. John has a PhD in psychology. He targeted someone he knew he could manipulate. Then he sued her and pretended that she sued him. (He is Plaintiff, she is Defendant.) He blamed the fact that he had to spend $300,000K plus in donors' money on the lawsuit on her by pretending it was her fault because she didn't pay an insurance bill. He perjured himself terribly in his deposition, and now he has RFM fighting for him online so he can keep this below the radar of his podcast feed. Some might think RMF looks great here. That tells you as much about them as it does about anyone. I think RFM looks really bad. I am always proud to help many victims with reasonable mental health issues considering the hardships they've been through. Jenn is one of the most amazing sexual abuse victims I have ever met -- I tend to think they're all pretty amazing, but Jenn outshines them all. It was so difficult for a victim to do what she's done. I am wildly impressed with her. What I think is disgusting is when individuals with mental health issues that have a lot of power (like John Dehlin and RFM) target and harass individuals with mental health issues who have a lot less power than they do. Are you going to delete my comments RFM?
@user-ks3cu8uq3q
@user-ks3cu8uq3q 26 дней назад
@@mormonrosebud Of course he won't; they speak for themselves.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
@@user-ks3cu8uq3q If you say so.... what's most obvious here is that there is a lot of suppression of information happening. And a lot of harassing of women. I'd be really embarrassed if this were my RU-vid channel. It speaks for itself.
@Birdwatcher36
@Birdwatcher36 26 дней назад
I want to see your "evidence" I've never seen anything that makes me question anyone's mental health except for yours and Jenns.
@lsun5322
@lsun5322 25 дней назад
@@mormonrosebudpeople that care/are sufficiently interested have read the documents and drawn their own conclusions based on the evidence.
@sunsolstar
@sunsolstar 26 дней назад
I the best punishment for Jenn should be to go back to the Mormon church, as a bonus they can give her the calling of Relief Society President!!!!
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
Why is it that you want Jenn punished? What is this? Why do men feel like they're being so super strong when they say harmful things about women and to women. From my perspective, men who do this look weak.
@sunsolstar
@sunsolstar 26 дней назад
@@mormonrosebud I think she is doing it to herself, women are not saits either, you have to analyze who is being untruthful in this case
@Cosmically_Forsaken
@Cosmically_Forsaken 24 дня назад
@@mormonrosebudI’m going to be straight up with you I (a woman btw) heard your claims, took a step back from John Dehlin, Mormon Stories etc because of your allegations. It’s been YEARS now that I’ve waited for anything from you (I don’t expect evidence from people claiming to be victims but you have stated you would provide it) and I’ve seen nothing. I did the same when Jenn Camp made her allegations. Took a step back, examined what evidence I could and made a decision based on the evidence provided and the behavior of those involved. Frankly you involving yourself in Jenn’s issues just further confirms to me that you both are clearly in need of some sort of mental health support and probably a break from the internet. Your bar complaint against RFM held nothing AGAINST him. Then you’re ALL over the comment section here. Not even talking about things half the time that are even relevant. It doesn’t take a lawyer to see most of what you have to say is frivolous and doesn’t hold water. Maybe try focusing on making yourself happier as you’re clearly a very disturbed and unhappy individual
@ruthvanantwerp1463
@ruthvanantwerp1463 23 дня назад
​@@mormonrosebudIt's a funny joke! And I'm a woman.
@peterrebhahn1113
@peterrebhahn1113 26 дней назад
I've now lost some respect for Harvard.
@KendraAndTheLaw
@KendraAndTheLaw 21 день назад
Just starting now? They've been churning out idiot-bots for some time now.
@jen-zz5hj
@jen-zz5hj 3 дня назад
Did rosebud go to Harvard or Harvard extension? Different.
@harperr2180
@harperr2180 26 дней назад
I live for these. Haha. Sad that Kamp's case has been sealed or a gag order or whatever.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
Yes, it is sad. But it probably won't stay that way forever. That would be different. I suppose you'll just have to wait a little longer so that you can laugh at her expense. I mean... she was a woman who tried to do everything she could for the ex-Mormon community. And who now has lost so much because John Dehlin and the Open Stories Foundation sued her. It's very sad. And it's very inappropriate to laugh when others are harmed.
@harperr2180
@harperr2180 26 дней назад
@@mormonrosebud Well one shouldn't defame others. She just didn't think she would be caught and there is only so many times you can supposedly lie to a court. All self inflicted.
@JojoMomoNomo
@JojoMomoNomo 25 дней назад
@@mormonrosebud , she lost so much because she lied, defamed, and doubled down. She is being forced to sleep in the bed she pissed in.
@bonniebrown5557
@bonniebrown5557 26 дней назад
I still do not understand what Rose bud complained to the bar association was? What a nut job!!
@Moksha-Raver
@Moksha-Raver 26 дней назад
Another loony suit bites the dust. Thanks for letting us know of Rosebud's latest misdeed failure.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
Many men are so obsessed with winning vs. losing. Ex-Mormon men, too. Maybe they haven't learned enough hard lessons in life to realize just how much more nuance there is to the real world. The men I respect who won't let another person beat them are the men who have actually dealt with hard things of their own. I can think of a few men who have demonstrated strength by protecting themselves from other men who were more powerful than them. But that's not what this is. RFM is bringing it on himself by podcasting about these things. Come on... who does this? It's lunacy, IMO. Who podcasts about their own bar complaints and acts like it's a huge win when they don't get disbarred. Attorneys protect each other and the profession. They almost never actually get disbarred. Not a huge win. Egads.... I do not get why Mormon men think this stuff is so cool. It's lame-o.
@darci1633
@darci1633 21 день назад
Thank you for the laugh 😂
@Pudding_Patrol
@Pudding_Patrol 26 дней назад
We need a playlist for these
@shenencalhar
@shenencalhar 26 дней назад
All of these people filing complaints on you should really learn how to compose a cohesive argument supported by evidence. This is basic Eng 101 stuff.
@atb5053
@atb5053 26 дней назад
Just wow. Rosebud comes off as trying for eloquence, but not succeeding.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
Well... thanks. I wasn't really trying for eloquence. I was writing quickly. I write a lot... and very fast.
@debrac2897
@debrac2897 25 дней назад
@@mormonrosebudand none of it makes any sense.
@edbutzwiggle4227
@edbutzwiggle4227 26 дней назад
RFM, you are too generous. Perhaps the crazy lady 😜group is trying to throw up anything haphazardly because they know you will give them free legal guidance about the proper processes. 😂
@w00f72
@w00f72 26 дней назад
She and Jenn Kamp must have the same editor 🤣
@lorrainedewaal3838
@lorrainedewaal3838 26 дней назад
This was my laugh therapy for the week 😅
@kentthalman4459
@kentthalman4459 26 дней назад
These are the women who slander JD.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
Are you sure it is John Dehlin who has been slandered? Or do you just know that a Mormon judge related to James E. Faust ruled on John Dehlin's side and then sealed the case so you can't make up your own mind?
@user-ck4vz4jo6e
@user-ck4vz4jo6e 26 дней назад
Love it!
@BirdNerdJC
@BirdNerdJC 26 дней назад
I'm so sorry. Please don't judge all wemon by her behavior. It's unbelievable and unacceptable. This is just aweful.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
What? That I stood up for myself? No, what we need are more women finding the courage to stand up for themselves.
@j7bvqb
@j7bvqb 26 дней назад
Thank you!
@sunshineandapples2128
@sunshineandapples2128 26 дней назад
Fascinating situation.
@user-qp3pu5yv1e
@user-qp3pu5yv1e 26 дней назад
Cox is Lori Vallow Daybells maiden name lol…;)
@praestant8
@praestant8 26 дней назад
It's a shame it is a private proceeding now. Jenn, like other deluded litigants, is comedy gold.
@Dewey32
@Dewey32 26 дней назад
The BABs must really like hearing about themselves on your show. They are making sure you never run out of material about them!
@personofinterest8731
@personofinterest8731 26 дней назад
Omigosh! Baby Reindeer USA. Puir lass needs a wee hug.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
Awww... thanks.... And I love that show!
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
But, unfortunately for John, I think you would find that I am much more mentally well than he is.
@Birdwatcher36
@Birdwatcher36 26 дней назад
​@@mormonrosebudcan't prove that by me or this hilarious bar complaint!!
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
​@@Birdwatcher36 Well, I'm not glad that you are feeling entertained by hardships of women. That seems wrong and inappropriate. It feels strange that you need someone to tell you this. And no one asked you to believe this from a bar complaint that should never have been podcasted about. But you can check out the documents that are available online if you'd like.
@Birdwatcher36
@Birdwatcher36 26 дней назад
@mormonrosebud I have checked out the facts and they don't come from you. The only hardships I see are the ones you created. You've been saying this crap for over 12 years now. How sad that you can't let it go even though you have no evidence. No sympathy from me except for your obvious mental health issues.
@julieprince5538
@julieprince5538 24 дня назад
These women need to be put in jail to stop this madness!
@susanweaver6698
@susanweaver6698 20 дней назад
Women claiming to be “badass” are usually whining, crying, pointing the finger at everyone else and not taking responsibility. I know some badass women working to change lives by positive action. They work to give women and girls opportunities to thrive. Perhaps these ladies could connect with some of the trailblazing women truly making a difference.
@sdfotodude
@sdfotodude 26 дней назад
She might need help
@mitsim
@mitsim 26 дней назад
Not just might, but positively needs help!
@sallyostling
@sallyostling 26 дней назад
Might??
@Atillatcele
@Atillatcele 26 дней назад
Anne or Jenn?
@sdfotodude
@sdfotodude 26 дней назад
@@Atillatcele Both
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
So why is it that if you really believe a woman needs help, you decide the thing to do about it is post a comment meant to insult her? I mean, do you see how weak looking this actually is? And that the band of men who post awful comments on what is anything besides funny are actually outing themselves? These are very serious topics. And RFM is just making money off of some people's inability to understand media stunts and the reality of how the U.S. legal system works.
@nanodon4
@nanodon4 26 дней назад
DUCK SEASON! 🦆
@Wren402
@Wren402 26 дней назад
I still don’t understand what she is accusing you of.
@sonyalazanya7
@sonyalazanya7 26 дней назад
Clearly she doesn't either or she would have cited something
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
That was the previous document.
@MeToo-py1tq
@MeToo-py1tq 26 дней назад
Is it lawful or constitutional that the judge has made this a private matter?
@MaxwellsUnearthly
@MaxwellsUnearthly 26 дней назад
The BBC club is in much need of what they actually lack in their club abbreviation 🤣🤣
@lsun5322
@lsun5322 26 дней назад
Is the permanent stalking injunction still under Judge Faust? Or is that seperate action that’s accessible?
@jathompson37
@jathompson37 26 дней назад
Glad the injunction against Kamp was made permanent. I’m not the upset about the recordings because I think we all know what’s up by now and Jenn is a person in DESPERATE need of help.
@bugsytuki
@bugsytuki 25 дней назад
Next time ur out in Utah u should definitely do a meet and greet 😀
@lsun5322
@lsun5322 26 дней назад
What about the permanent injunction judgment from Judge Faust? Is that public or sealed too?
@Marellenmac1964
@Marellenmac1964 25 дней назад
These women seem to be completely unhinged.
@KendraAndTheLaw
@KendraAndTheLaw 25 дней назад
Yep
@letahamilton
@letahamilton 26 дней назад
🎊
@samanthawilcox8505
@samanthawilcox8505 20 дней назад
I think you woke the monster up. After being fairly quiet for a long while on FB, she is nonstop posting about JD again. 😑
@Spawn303
@Spawn303 26 дней назад
I know she isn’t this smart but one who is versed in the art of hacking would be sending links to government officials or attorneys in order to gain access to their systems etc. that’s why most people DO NOT click on links and so forth. But 1. She isn’t that bright 2. She’s not smart enough to be a hacker 😂
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
I am definitely not a hacker. Why would I waste time on hacking? I am also not an unintelligent person ;). Is that what RFM claims in this? That it was wrong for me to put links because the Washington State Bar might believe I was trying to hack them. That's just weird.
@tawneenielsen4080
@tawneenielsen4080 26 дней назад
Speaking against what others have determined god to be, sure ticks people off.
@Georgie3463
@Georgie3463 26 дней назад
I want to have empathy for Jenn because I think she is damaged, but I just can't anymore. Why won't she leave you and John Dehlin alone? I just don't get it!
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
This wasn't Jenn's complaint. This was mine.
@Birdwatcher36
@Birdwatcher36 25 дней назад
@mormonrosebud same thing...two damaged women basically stalking others. You've been doing this for over 12 years. Time to stop
@agirly1503
@agirly1503 26 дней назад
I would NEVER join a group with a name like that! 😂
@jation123
@jation123 26 дней назад
lol 🤣😂 “Something would go to critical mass, there would be a huge mushroom shaped cloud on the horizon, and we wouldn’t want that, would we?” 🤣😂🤣
@lokisprincess13
@lokisprincess13 25 дней назад
Why would it ever be a states bar association’s job to protect ‘vulnerable third parties’ from media?
@Lovethisguy-kf1ku
@Lovethisguy-kf1ku 24 дня назад
After I left the church some years ago I was apathetic towards it. After listening to you guys for the last few months I NOW HATE EVERY SINGLE MORMON I encounter. Thanks for getting my mind straight.
@DoctorWithoutDogma
@DoctorWithoutDogma 26 дней назад
Why rest on your laurels when you can rot on your rosebuds.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
You're hilarious. Omg.😂
@DoctorWithoutDogma
@DoctorWithoutDogma 26 дней назад
@@mormonrosebud A lawyer walks into a bar and informs the bartender she wants to file a complaint against a lawyer. The bartender responds, “Lady, you’re at the wrong bar.” She replies, “I already tried the other one and they turned me away.”
@user-dw3fb2cw6c
@user-dw3fb2cw6c 26 дней назад
I think you kind of like this nonsens😂 Though it is taking away time that you should keep up with Brush up your Shakespeare… importen stuff🥰!!!
@angiestewart3444
@angiestewart3444 26 дней назад
You couldn't make this whole debacle up all I can say is uthese ladies must have money to throw away
@valerietrott2630
@valerietrott2630 26 дней назад
Cuckoo cuckoo cuckoo 😵‍💫
@scottspoerry2761
@scottspoerry2761 24 дня назад
Classic "Karens" I would really like to see the bodycam videos of any interaction they ever happen to have with law enforcement. I'm sure they would be very popular on the various Krazy Karen youtube channels. They are seriously KRAZY.
@miriam-moore
@miriam-moore 23 дня назад
Droll humor
@acatnamedm4529
@acatnamedm4529 26 дней назад
Are you sure you aren't paying her for content? (sarcasm) This is so incoherent and without purpose.
@rebeccasirrine947
@rebeccasirrine947 25 дней назад
"Large public document dump"? Sounds like a former pillow salesman I could mention.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
RFM, did they send you the documents I submitted on Tuesday May 28th, 2024? They did not send me any indication stating that they had forwarded them onto you. Please don't delete this comment. I have taken a screenshot of it.
@sdfotodude
@sdfotodude 26 дней назад
Oh, it is still up and you are still as delusional as ever. Seek professional help.
@coldwar45
@coldwar45 26 дней назад
Quit wasting your time you’re going to lose again LOL
@jonathanotten7638
@jonathanotten7638 26 дней назад
Have you considered speaking to a psychiatrist? I believe it would help you.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
@@jonathanotten7638 Ex-Mormon men have such smart comebacks.
@mormonrosebud
@mormonrosebud 26 дней назад
@@coldwar45 I've been losing all my life. I'm an ex-Mormon woman. I'm used to it ;). The men's objective is to win. The women already know they'll lose before they begin.
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