Thanks for yet another informative video. You are such a wonderful couple. The questions that I think very few ask are 1. What kind of sailing do we want to do? 2. What kind of crew do we have on board? 3. Where are we going to sail? These are essential questions that must be asked before choosing which vessel to sail. The vast majority of long-distance sailors choose tailwind routes so that sailing is often easy and the sails are stable up for longer periods. If you intend to do fast sailing, it requires more knowledge of the crew and can often be the cause of stress and dissatisfaction on board. It is often with boats as with cars. They can drive fast and wild but the road really determines the speed. This is how it is at sea as well, but here it is the weather and sea condition that really determines the speed and comfort. After all, safety and comfort are the most important thing for most people. Good luck with choosing the right boat.
Yes you are absolutely correct and hopefully viewers will start to ask those questions to make the right choices for themselves. Thanks for the insight.
Thanks for the review. I can see the attraction to the boat. Very luxurious. I’ve also seen videos of the bulkhead issues. The thickness of the plywood is just crazy thin. It’s hard to believe that they couldn’t have foreseen this issue. They also glued the whole boat together. Seems like they really were cutting corners. But if you are just island hopping it might be the perfect boat.
Yes, costs can certainly be saved to keep the price down and then there are risks with things going wrong and unfortunately if there are weaknesses, they will be discovered in worst possible times when you really need the boat to be solid. On the other hand, as Fred said, no 450 (or other Lagoon) has had any catastrophic bulkhead failure and I presume some of them are doing the long ocean crossings and facing very rough weather. There are many things that seems to be weak on the Parlay boat like absent backing plates and moving steering blocks but its hard to know if that is a Lagoon fault or from the cyclone damage that wrecked it at the start?
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Parlay mentioned in one of the videos that some of lagoon owners had contacting him who hasn't being into the cyclone damage but still had similar issues. In one of his videos he figured out what caused start of degradation of structural integrity and bulkhead failures. If you interested please watch his video where he first uncovers it ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8F53jG7mdJs.html from 9:15 to 10:10 and then explains what happened from 16:45 to 18:07. So you can notice that failure itself is tradeof of having very spacious luxurious boat - it gives you very little room for maintenance and inspection, which is very important for longevity and noticing problems before they turn into a huge disaster. Cheers!
@@igorb4650 Thanks for that info Igor. The deficiencies are very clear and you have explained them well, as has Colin as well as showing many other items on the boat that need extra support and reinforcement.
Another great video,,,very informative,,,most of us would have written off Lagoon,,,now with what I’ve seen, it’s a great boat,and an even better price. Hope you all had a great holiday and Happy New Year
Hi Todd, cheers this one was a bit of a touchy subject, although we still needed to do a walk through and give them the same opportunity . Happy New Year to you!
Hey Guys, Thanks for that, food for thought when it comes to speed over comfort and saving $$$$'s eh, Happy New Year and looking forward to new adventures with you Guys too.
just keep up great out look on what is out thar for ppl that what boating life you gave a lote of info in your video's just love watching to to or to good at that do putting over that's really out thar ty you have lote fun len '
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Your both incredibly competent Sailors and I'm going crazy waiting for ur new baby to arrive, how much longer?? This Aussie Girl is so itchy to be on board, maybe I should see a Doctor about that. Take care, be safe out there, love the walkthroughs really just hurry up and buy one or two😁
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 OH wow I just saw ur txt, May hey alright, I'm so excited for you, I knew something was afoot you both had that twinkle in the last several vlogs, have you done a review of this magic sailing carpet yet, I'm just wondering if I can guess what she is. So when are u letting ur special Aussie friends know😁🇦🇺, can't wait let's, go on adventures and sail into FREEDOM. Xx
A friend had a 2007 Lagoon 44. It sailed like a Boab tree. We got excited when we saw 8 knots. The bimini-covered flybridge was far too exposed for any sustained weather. Also the stb bow locker was head-butted by a whale and put a 2 meter split along the keel forward of the mini keels which flooded the forward locker (motor was off at the time).
Thanks for the review. I think that one gets what one pays for. The boat certainly is a comfortable cruising boat (designed for charter companies?) I subscribe to Colin's channel (as well as a number of other sailing channels) so I have followed that story. I believe that a company is judged by their response when there is an issue and I think that the consensus is that Lagoon's initial response was poor to very shabby but when they realised the gravity of the situation with a large number of boats being in the same situation (most of which were not storm or otherwise damaged), they stepped up to the plate. Whether or not their "solution" will undo the damage to their reputation, remains to be seen.
I’m all about comfort over speed and 9 knots would be plenty fast for me! Lol 😜 Let’s talk about that beautiful salon and walk around beds. Love, love, love those wide hulls. What doesn’t work for me is the cockpit. The higher you are off the water the more you feel the effects of each swell. My stomach would roll with each wave 🤢🤮 I prefer a helm station location comparable to the Seawind or Leopard but the cost is very attractive and with that savings one could purchase a lot of paper bags for us queazy stomach people sitting in the fly bridge! 😉 Thank you for another excellent review.
Thanks again Mango for your support. Good luck with your stomach! Cats tend to pivot from the stern so low down aft is always the most stable area and of course the longer the boat the less the motion too. We loved the Seawinds too with their beachability and shallow draft and easy sailing at speed.... Just lost the front walkthrough and cockpit though - we live in hope!
I would say the most interesting part of the bulkhead debacle is that owners got to strip down their boats to areas that never saw the light of day and do so on social media. It was not of good quality at least in the areas they expected never to be seen again. The quality control at the factory seems lacking or maybe due to the fact that European wages are higher they cannot afford to put the same number of hours in as other boat manufacturers.
Yes you are right about the difficulty in seeing the bulkhead to check if its intact and boat producers will always have to make choices between quality and cost to remain competitive esp where the wages are high. I would certainly want the extra cost for when sailing through the bad storms etc...
We went on the 40 and 46 at the Sydney Boat Show in 2019, those sugarscoop steps were a big plus, esp with us both having arthritis, the flybridge was an instant NO. Too high off the water and difficult to get at the boom and boom cover.
Wager/dryer is an option that you can choose. For the 46s without the solid top, they have a canvas Bimini (you see it folded down in the pictures of that version.) I gave not seen a cover to keep the cushions dry and sun protected but presume you would to have it made specially.
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 born and raised in Canada 🇨🇦 Me grandad from Glasgow, me Dad was wearing a green and white scarf when he came home from the hospital. Many years later I to came home from the hospital wrapped in the green and white. I have two boys they were both born in Canada came home wrapped in green and white. I was a Celtic fan before I was born 🍀⚽️🍀CELTIC 4LIFE🍀⚽️🍀 Hail hail
Read your explanation below about the 450F bulkhead issue (not 45..Lagoon numbering was 3 digit (IE 380, 400, 421, 450), newer models use two digit (42, 46..etc). You SHOULD have mentioned the bulkhead explanation in your video was LAGOON'S reply, not yours. It DID come across as YOUR opinion. I have followed this issue since its inception and talked to many Lagoon owners. It is not only the Lagoon 450's, Lagoon only came in with the "fix" kit AFTER the social media exposed them. Lastly, they are not doing the repair properly on many boats (hauling out, checking the hulls to see if misaligned. I'm assuming you have not watch all of Parley's or David's videos PRIOR to you producing this one. Had it NOT been for social media, those cheap "home depot" plywood buckling "bulkheads" would have been unknown to many. A reputable company would have been forward leaning and been in front of this issue. Appreciate your video and past videos, but this one could have used some tweaking in my opinion.
We take your points. And yes we know the response was not as timely as one would have hoped but they seem to have done a good job with fixing the issue with the 46 masts, I am told (by Lagoon owners) so that is a better reflection.
Its called LeopardLag guys 😂😂 A good cruiser and live aboard for moderate sailing climates but the single external helm on the roof top bridge would be less than fun in a wet, cold or a stormy sea way. Nice interior aesthetic design features... and good kit value for money, all structural updates being well🤞🏼 I would still suggest that its not a contender on your list because its a bit too sluggish and the protection and communication with that upper helm in anything but moderate conditions or short term bad ones. Ideally 3seasons use in Med or similar but not so happy crossing to Tasmania, Biscay or the North sea.
This in no way meant to sway you, influence you one way or another. I am NOT a sailor, I have owned boats all my life and still do. This is my take on Lagoon and the ongoing controversy. Assuming there is absolutely nothing wrong with Lagoon. There is the constant concern from not just those who own one or contemplating on owning one but those who are currently not even in the market for a catamaran but perhaps will be by the time you or others are ready to sell yours either to return to land or buy another boat. How does that effect the resale value? What will a survey that will examine bulkheads or other unknown defects cost. If I was in the market for a used Lagoon today, I would not be satisfied with a conventional survey. Very few owners would agree to dismantling of their boats for the kind of survey I would be happy with. In the 1980's Audi 5000 had a few incidents of stuck throttle pedals. Almost immediately, the value of Audi 5000 was cut in half. If you owned a dealership, or owned a used one you needed all the help just to get rid of one. To this day, we still do not know if it was indeed a manufacturing defect or driver error. It didn't matter what the real cause of it was. Car was quickly taken of the market and the ones in service soon disappeared. This is easier to handle with a car that costs $20,000. With a Million plus dollar boat, if there is even a 10-15 percent devaluation, we are talking about a substantial amount of money. Then again, we are simply sailing with you virtually, and do not have any stake in this and YOU have to decide what makes you happy and which boat or brand will serve your needs the best. Thanks for letting us sail with you.
Thanks for the comment Aytac. Yes you have hit the nail on the head with the cost implications and the difficulty of dismantling the woodwork to see the bulkheads. The way they put in those bulkheads without supporting the inner edges was clearly the design error and presumably as a cost or time saving measure. The difference with the Audis is that people crashed but as I understand it, no Lagoon 45 has sunk or been destroyed because of this... Hopefully all the damaged ones will be fixed and the issue will pass peacefully into history.
Your description says "we are looking for replacement boats and travelling the world in the process" but a previous video you said that you have already selected the boat and will pick it up next year. Did I dream that video but it's going to be yours after a boat show overseas ?
You are mostly correct, I believe they said they don't have time to wait 2 years on a waiting list for the boat they want, they are taking the smaller one after the boat show, so they can have "something" almost straight away. They plan to use that while they build/buy what they want to fulfill their long-term plans. That was my take on the videos.
With these boats going north of 1/2 a million, buyers have surely done their homework and know what suites their sailing lifestyle. When you consider most spend 95% of their time at anchor Lagoon figured out how to lure in customers with big space and home furnishings. With Lagoon everyone gets to be "Captain Hook" dats slang for anchored mate!!! With plenty of Blow (AC) and a Chest loaded with loot (large double door fridge) we'll rule da seas!!!!
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 I really don't know what they've done from a production/boat yard point of view - but they have fixed all the new owners' masts promptly once it got reported
@@johanmarais9950 Yes that is good and a good reflection of Lagoons integrity. That is what we all expect to happen when a clear boat problem arises. Glad to hear that, even though we have no vested interest or connection to Lagoon, it is nice to hear when the the customers are protected and the parties do the "right thing"!
@@johanmarais9950 Fixing masts is an easy fix. They have NOT fixed any of the bulkhead issues with the 45s. Hence the lawsuits. I can almost understand why they have not. Even at a competent professional yard, if they do what Collin had to do on his boat it would cost a fortune just in labor alone. Considering those boats are scattered all over the world and not necessarily near a yard that can do that type of work, how does a company shoulder such an expense? They can't ask the owner to sail thousands of miles to the nearest facility for repair. What if they had issues along the way? Liability is immense. What do the cruising families do during the repairs. Who pays for those expenses? This is not like General Motors having to recall few thousand cars and have them repaired at the nearest dealer. They are all over and the repairs don't take months. Iy is a complex matter. If Lagoon was to approve all repairs for all 45s, they may very well declare bankruptcy and rebrand their boats under a new name.
@@aytacercen944 I don't know who you are and I don't care. My response: Your whole reply is about the bulkheads - what did I mention about that for you to reply to me in this way? do you work for Lagoon? Secondly: the masts are easily repairable? A repeating problem shows a problem at the QC at the boatyard so don't attempt tp rectify that. so let me say it: a cheap heavy boat that people buy on looks but inferior boat readiness / quality / construction - too many examples to mention. I am still pondering about your faulty attack on me.
There are some things I like about this boat but I find it very odd that the spokesperson didn't want to be filmed, making little alarm bells start ringing in my head. Presented with an opportunity to give helpful information about how the bulkhead issues are being handled, and he passes. The sky-high flybridge steering makes it a no for me anyway, being a victim of chronic vertigo, that just makes my head spin thinking about it. LOL Probably a fine boat for the large majority of sailors who just want to island-hop and not do any major crossings. The price is the biggest selling point...until you start to factor in all the things you'd want to add or modify. Something about the way it looks from outside reminds me of a Clydesdale draft horse, lovely to look at, comfortable to ride, but lots of expense involved for larger gear, more food/fuel, higher stable/marina costs, too cumbersome to expect any speed without a lot of encouragement. That 72' mast rules out the ICW since the max clearance is 65' for the fixed bridges, 55' for the areas around SW Florida where I'd be using as my home base.
Lagoons are floating apartments. They are really comfortable. No, they are not fast (in race segments) but they finish - Look at all the Lagoons that have done really well in the ARC around the world Race (Tortoise and Hare?). Lagoons are the ONLY catamaran that I have personally seen modified for cold temperatures. As a family catamaran in the lower price range, they are ideal. They will haul the large and heavy dinghies that families need to haul large groups. As for resale price on the used market - There is such a HIGH demand for catamarans now (and the near future), especially by people getting into the market for the first time, I cannot see prices dropping at all.
Thats right Paddy. Each design suits different sorts of people so the ones that want to sail fast and "properly" are more likely to get an Outremer (as Sandy says) and the ones that want the comfort obviously get the Lagoons more than any other. Each to their own...
I would be willing to bet Lagoon had started producing the 46 long before the issue with the 45 was revealed - not to mention all the time they wasted trying to avoid responsibility for the issue. Have Lagoon offered potential owners any real evidence the bulkhead issues have been corrected?
The problem as I understand it was that the edge of the bulkhead was not supported so under pressure could buckle and now they provide that support. However you do get what you pay for....
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Am I to understand by you repeating in several replies to comments that you get what you pay for one should expect faulty bulkheads on less expensive boats?
@@nooneanybodyknows1321 No that is not what I said. If you pay more money, you get fully glassed or carbon bulkheads that won't ever break... This is a mass production boat that is manufactured to keep the price competitive and they do that very well but the savings have to made somewhere. When things go wrong from design / build faults, they need to fix it and these issues are much more likely in a budget priced boat. Is that not to be expected like buying a cheap car versus a top of the range car?
Yes Lagoon has a great three bulkhead system, they’ve even name the bulkheads as not to mistake them when in certain locations of the boat the bulkheads are named snap, crackle and pop, I think you may want to do some more investigation, I believe I have heard that this is also happening to the 400s in the 430s and there’s also Another video out on the inter-web where a lagoon 50 is featured in that thing sounds like a squeaky old wooden wagon !
But the lower price seems to be really attractive and that seems to be the reason people buy them so much. Our video was discussing why Lagoons are the best selling cat out there, even if they are not for us...
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 , wow now that’s a cold response, so even though they have created in mass produce a unseaworthy vessel it boils down to you get what you pay for ! Well then I guess you got what you paid for and your insurance company should just walk away from you right ? After all can you blame Leopard for maybe a design flaw that caused your boat to burn ?
@@stephen_1987 If you owned one of them pieces of crap that they now issue a stainless steel bar for you to install the hold your bulkheads together you wouldn’t fine the humor and sarcasm, while I don’t want to sail boat I’m a power boater I think it’s disgusting that lagoons naval architect designed and built such an unseaworthy vessel not to mention the crap workmanship that as been bought the light
@@br5498 I do wonder how such a huge error occurred, considering who the designers were. Was it a design issue, a construction issue, or a combination of the two. Also the modular cabinetry just seems like a waste of weight and materials, especially with the bulkheads when with better materials you could use the bulkhead itself as the visible wall.
It was only the 45s that were affected and the fix is well known now and possible for any that was affected. So the 45 prices should be protected going forward. Hopefully the over inflated second hand market will cool down in a few years
Funny how Lagoon has known about this for a long time now. And I believe there is over 200 that have this problem. And the fix that Lagoon has come up with doesn't even come close to fixing the problem. The problem is a design problem. If I was Lagoon I would buy up all the boats that have this problem and crush thim to get thim off the market. It is only a matter of time before one of there boats sinks out across one of the oceans and all hands will be lost. You may want to watch some of the menny videos out there of all the boats out there that have this problem from a lagoon boats. And it my be just me but I bet thats why You didn't buy one.
Time is likely to make it more clear whether the “squeaking” that everyone now reports is bulkhead failures or just flexing of the boat. Even floor boards squeak when you walk on them but there is no risk from them... I am favouring Alunminium at the moment...
All timber boats squeak,stand out in a forest and listen to the sound of timber groaning under pressure. Place two pieces of timber hard against each other and flex the join. It will squeak if it is not mechanically fixed to each other and a sub member. I have been on a 440 lagoon from Indonesia to Melbourne, sailing against the weather because we had no choice, this boat took a pounding day after day. Yes the timber squeaks but I wouldn’t have traded those squeaks for a lighter built boat. The bloke who put the video up about the lagoon 500 was just grandstanding on the bulkhead issue to get his watch count up. My 2 bobs woryh🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼🇦🇺 can’t wait for your next sailing video Dr’s🎉🎉🎉
@@nickcooper14 Yes you are correct - squeaking alone does not imply any problem but just normal flexing the fibreglass boats do. As you have experienced this is severe weather and the fact that no other Lagoon has had broken bulkheads and none have fallen apart, is the proof that squeaking means nothing. We had squeaking from the floor boards in our Leopard 50 when we walked on them but that also means nothing. It is a shame when for extra views a problem is exaggerated and falsely reported but TV and other media do the same - shame!
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Thank you for your efforts here, taking us along as you're touring these options is much appreciated and offers valuable insight to a large number of sailors. As science orientated people, may I suggest an engineering approach to this process, as you get to the end of your options tour? I made a list of all the materials boats are made of and categorized my options into them. Then made a simple matrix in Excel of all the benefits and drawbacks of each material. You may be amazed at how this clears the mind in the face of the decision you're both facing. I put '3am container strike', fire risk and resale value retention high up on my list of priorities and ended up with a custom built aluminium boat, built in South Africa and finished in Germany. But you may find that your priorities are different. Whatever you do, please consider Engineering and safety first and add the emotion and comfort afterwards. You guys rock :-) BTW: From worst to best, Concrete, Wood, Steel, Glass-fibre, Aluminium, seems to be the most common ranking, if one considers such a matrix........
@@leobard7767 Great idea Leo. Please can you share your spreadsheet so I can see what you are talking about and if we use it will credit you with the concept. our email is drjohnmcintosh@tpg.com.au
Thank you for a good youtube channel, 👌🏻. But in this one, not soo mutch... This ”L” are proof that everything that looks good is not always functional or durable. A good platform if you intend to lie in the marina all the time..The worst thing is probably that they take no responsibility for their production shortcomings. Parlay have done a huge work and have made us aware....
Thanks for the comment MK. I am sure that even Lagoon have learnt a lot from this episode and would act differently if the same the next time (as they seemed to have done with the mast fix on the 46.) It was terrible for the 450 owners and Colin (Sailing Parlay) was the one that got the action to occur so good on him despite the vitriol he got from many sides as he was fighting for the action to occur.... We were trying to show the 46 and trying to understand why so many people buy them but getting into the 450 issue was certainly not our intent, only to pass the message from Lagoon that bulkheads on the 46s are designed better.
@@dutchkorreke2076 Oh I thought you meant the Outremer would not sail over 10 knots of boat speed but you meant "if you want to sail in wind under 10 knots, buy an Outremer!" Absolutely!!!
You are far too nice to Lagoon. Difficult for me to take you credibly. Please mention the catastrophic problems FP and Leopard have had. Most every single inspected 450 has bulkhead damage, and Lagoon still has not come forward to address it, they rely on allies like you to brush it over. Lagoon also recalled the 46 to totally replace the mast shortly after it was released, maybe your lagoon man who refused to be on camera can address this....
Thats exactly what we were referring to without bad mouthing anyone... I know there were around 700 lagoon 45s but I have not heard they all their bulkheads were broken... I am no-ones allies and have no allegiance to Lagoon and there are always two sides to any situation. As I said in the video, all brands will have faults but they need to take responsibility to fix problems when they arise - which they don't always do quickly... Also it is important for the existing 45 owners to keep everything in perspective and not overstate the problem as that devalues their boats. None have failed or been lost and the problem can be fixed for those that are broken.
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 It can be fixed with more than 3 months hard work for at least 2 men. And after it is fixed it is still not as it should have been. Lagoon have ruined there reputation and there business. Only guys like you who gets boats thrown after them with Great price reductions and buy back offers from them. Are willing to put there life's and investments into those broken boats. I would not pay 10% of there supposed value. From what i hear its most of there models that have problems. They have found problems on the 46, 450, 500 so no thanks. Do not fill peoples ears with sales talk from them when you are more or less ignorant to what is going on with there products. By taking blood money from Lagoon you have maybe doomed your YT channel. That is very short sighted and not a move any should make.....
@@Foilmagnet We do not get reduced price boats or kick backs for our reviews or when we buy boats! We don't even have Patreon! So no blood money etc.... we are just reporting what was told to us on the Lagoon tour.
One would have to physically watch your specific boat built filming it all. No, no individuals have died but you look at the bulk heads and "out of whack" many many shown boats, and for dadgum sure there has been catastrophic failures of boat components. It is a concern of their build methodology and quality. Also, the "put in place" fix has the owner footing most of the bill. They are using the term to mean a very specific thing and catastrophic failure includes every single individual component. This looks like Lagoon is paying someone, and there may be more but as DOCTORS, you'll be Considered "Upper Class". They are targeting certain audiences.
I think the gravity of the situation is understood by everyone, and this whole event has been very damaging for their reputation. In relation to them targeting "upper class", I don't think that's fair as we approached them for the review so we were being fair to give them the opportunity to show their 46. Obviously most people did not like their responses (not mine) and all the issues you raise are real for the 450 owners. Others just need to choose their future boats with that knowledge...
Dear Everyone, Like discussing religion and politics, we knew this would be a touchy subject with two diametrically opposite sides. We have no vested interest in Lagoon, get no sponsorship, kick back, reduced fees or payments from Lagoon but what we offered them (like all the brands) was to showcase their boat and give us a tour. As they declined to be videoed, it was up to us to share "their" information as accurately as we could. Everyone is aware of the issues that Lagoon has had and we are not wanting to delve into that argument again but we shared the info they gave us and how things have progressed. Therefore the statements we made about the bulkheads and fix offered are the explanation from Lagoon, not from us, so if you have strong feelings or opinions, don't shoot the messenger (us)! We acknowledge the suffering that those people that had this bulkhead breakage had experienced and sincerely hope the "fix" stabilises the bulkhead, their safety, their boat price and they can enjoy cruising with confidence. Remember that this video was all about "WHY ARE LAGOONS THE MOST SUCCESSFUL BRAND IN THE WORLD?" and we tried to work that out - as we are not even Lagoon sailors ourselves! Like with previous hot videos, keep comments constructive, free of denigration and personal attacks or we will delete them from the channel. Regards, John and Eli.
I am surprised that I was surprised by the vitriol below. The posts themselves... a sad commentary. I have come to read flaming anonymous posts as tone-deaf wastes of time and bits.
I have owned 19 boats over the past 51 years. From personal experience, I can tell you that there are no perfect boats. They all have design and construction issues. They all break down. They are all virtual holes into which you will continuously throw money. Sailing across oceans is a VERY inefficient and expensive way to travel. Fly, and charter when you get there. It is a LOT cheaper. You avoid the upfront capital cost and, especially, the CONSTANT repair costs. You also avoid all the aggravation of ownership.
@@captainpaddy1524 Thanks for your wisdom, Paddy! Absolutely you are right with the "no perfect boat" as they are all compromises and each one of us has to decide which compromises we are willing to make. They certainly do have the potential to be a hole to throw money in constantly but with care you can reduce costs dramatically - as I did living on a 25 foot monohull from UK to Turkey over 8 months and we lived very cheaply. Now that we don't have a boat, our accommodation and travels cost are really high so the benefit of living aboard in the lack of hotel fees, self cooking and hopefully catching lots of fish to reduce food bills... Cruising in the South Pacific with 3-4 on board our home-made 42 foot cat cost $30 per day per person, all inclusive but no major breakdowns as the boat was recently built... It is really a lifestyle issue and the choice of boat, where you cruise and how you live while aboard are the keys if you want to keep to a tight budget. There are lots who do it cheap and I would encourage punsters to get out there and rough it early in life without the luxuries to learn the skills...
You are an MD, correct? If I told you I smoke 3 packs a day, would you say "not to worry, some people eat ice cream, which isn't the best either"? I think many RU-vid viewers want to hear solid truth, and object to lack of candor.
I wouldn't invest $700k in a boat from a company that was so careless on making one of the best selling model in the market! And, according some owners, not all complaints are being fulfilled.
Thanks for watching Alcibiades and I am sure that there are many people with the same view as you and their reputation has been significantly tarnished and their future actions will need to be excellent to get that good reputation back over time... Time will tell.
They are still built with ply wood bulkheads and they are great floating apartments but they sail like a barge, are extremely heavy for their size. The flybridge is a ridiculous, the height of the boom is a joke. They have no blue water design features. They are cheap boats designed for coastal and charter use. I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me....
I've watched all your videos and read all these comments. Journalism's first obligation is to accurately put all the facts into a meaningful context. Facts must be weighed for severity and importance. I believe that many of your viewers feel you glossed over many facts and avoided confronting the Lagoon representative.
Thanks Bill, yes we realise we did not go into the whole details and complexities and the message we were wanting to get across is that the 46s have not have the trouble with bulkheads (as no other Lagoons have had any broken bulkheads). Squeaking does not mean they are breaking so many are misinterpreting the meaning. While we did not want to get into the 450 argument, we could not do a 46 review without mentioning the issue and until the 46 has a bulkhead break, they do not have any issue (and Lagoon are wiser now too, it seems).
Sure it looks nice until you hit something like a log or something. The hull will Crack and the wood will soak up so much water, that you will have to replace the whole bottom. Terrible design!
As a couple approaching retirement, we're looking at 40'+ cats. We aren't big fans of lagoons especially now with the bulkhead issues. We feel that lagoon not having an official spokesperson addressing the issue was done to CTA in case of lawsuits and this review came across as a prommercial rather than an actual review.. Shame.. I'm sorry for the loss of your home but you've lost a subscriber
Dear Ross, thanks for your comment and like you Lagoons are not for us, but to ignore the fact that lagoon make more cats than Leopard and FP together would be naive and insulting to all those Lagoon lovers. Each to there own, we all all like different things and we have no kick back or benefit from Lagoon for this review. We never run any boat down and are highlighting what each boat provides. Look back through all our reviews and you will see the same unbiased reviews without being rude or derogatory about the aspects that each boat is weak in. But as you have good insight, I am sure that you can see between all the lines that in each video the shortcomings are clear by omission or diplomatic reflection of the weaknesses. Sorry it is so upsetting for you to unsubscribe but we have treated each brand with the same respect and diplomacy and are keeping out of the arguments and just passing on the info that comes from Lagoon and other industry experts. The title of this video was "why does lagoon sell more boats than anyone else?" So that's why we had to state the positives and we did have to address the bulkhead issue that now can be fixed, all be it that Lagoon only provide the kit and don't pay for the labour... Regards.
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Thanks for the response, albeit, unexpected.. We watch many sailing videos and, without naming names, we've seen the so-called "fix" for the bulkhead issue but, as I'm sure you're aware, the problems Lagoon are facing go well beyond merely bulkhead issues. The Moorings is what has made Lagoon / Leopard / FP what they are, not their build qualities. Be that as it may, it's your channel, as such its also your discretion as to what you can / will publish..
Sorry, but you've come across as overly supportive of Lagoon. You appear to have lost objectivity. They initially ran away from the issues highlighted by other owners and their 'repair kit' may not be substantial enough. IF Parlay had tried to cross the Pacific, likely it would have broken in half .. Your suggesting there has been no loss as a result of this design / manufacturing issue is why I am posting ... it was only a matter of time ((
Hey Mark, Lagoons were never our choice and we did not want to let our personal opinions cloud the 46 features - the limitations were clearly stated without denigration and we raised the bulkhead concern of the other boat so anyone can check out that issue separately. Sorry it came across too much "in favour" of one side...
@@Markymarkcy No worries. I did try to show the deficiencies without denigration (eg poor upwind performance, poor finish in bilges and other ares not seen, no air tight voids, bulkhead history) while showing their benefits. But a lot of people expect vitriol and dramatisation which we do not agree with...
Don't get piece of shit boat! Why do you want a boat that have wood below water line? Lagoon, Beneteau, Hanse, good looking boats, but pieces of shit with wood below water line. I saw one serviced! You don't want that piece of shit. If you a cruiser wanting a dependable boat, get older heavier boat with full fiberglass hull, not the pretty expansive pieces of shit. Consider new Jeanneau! No core below waterline? Fiberglass reinforced with carbon fiber. Best production boats on the market!
IMO you have damaged your integrity by posting a soft review on Lagoon. Just look at the misery current owners are in facing massive costs and repairs for a unknown tested Kit repair. Lagoon was slow to respond and was forced by social media to even address the problems. You certainly have lost my trust and viewrship.
Hey Steve, we were reviewing the 46 and separating the 450 bulkhead from the 46. We were trying to consider on what Lagoons are so popular and with boats like Impi sailing repeated circumnavigations in tough conditions, the 450 bulkhead issues should not tarnish the whole brand. That was our point and to add, Lagoons are not even a boat we have considered buying so they have no vested interest and were just passing on the info from Lagoon. I have heard from non-Lagoon professionals that the kit was properly designed by marine engineers and the obvious fault was the free edge that was not supported. And the other issues about being slow to respond, we agree. What we were trying to explain is the the 46 is designed differently from the 450 so the bulkheads have not had any issues and were not getting into the 450 issues specifically. I absolutely understand and have sympathy for the cost of the repair, haul out, marina fees and hotel fees as liveaboards have to pay for accommodation.... We know how that feels!
