Secret of Evermore - This SNES RPG is Polarizing... 

Was Secret of Evermore a failed experiment or an underrated classic? Gain early access to my videos by supporting me at www.patreon.com/xygorgaming OR through RU-vid membership by clicking the JOIN button above!

Hey there! I was the lead programmer. I periodically check to see if anyone's posted new Evermore content and pipe up if there's anything interesting I can add to it. Retirement be like that, yo. ;) So, I just wanted to add a cent or two: • Technically, we didn't even _have_ to be "shameless" when using Mana's systems. We were actually told by Square Japan to mimic Mana, which was simultaneously cool and annoying, since they wouldn't actually give us Mana's codebase, forcing us to re-invent numerous wheels. On the other hand, it gave us a little license to do a few things our way instead, from the ground up. This included big changes like Magic → Alchemy, medium ones like a better text box reminiscent of FF6's or the jungle-cover map mode, and tiny ones like making the ring menus elliptical so they weren't obscured by the text box so much when the PC was near the top of the screen. • I also am not fond of the market. As programming lead, I didn't do a lot of scenario scripting, which was the job of our designers, so I approached the market the first time the same way a player would, and I found the running-back-and-forth tedious. I wish it had been less mazelike and more focused on the actual process of bartering for what you really wanted, which I enjoyed, though I know not everyone likes that part either. By the way, I _think_ the game manual talked about the market and how it works, so it might have been less opaque to the player back then. • A lot of people talk about the hit boxes being troublesome. I wonder why we didn't think so during development. Perhaps we just got too good at the game. We did have focus groups on multiple occasions, but they might have been selected with a bias, purely via their interest in playtesting an action RPG. It's unfortunate that it frustrates people. I wonder if there's a romhack that dynamically expands the hitboxes by a pixel each or something. Other than that, not much to add. A pretty accurate and reasonable review, really. Much as I'd love a 10/10, realistically it's not a perfect game. 🤷‍Anyway, thanks for playing and talking about Evermore! It's always nice to see it kept alive a little longer by people like you. Cheers! 🙂

Absolutely loved this game as a kid. I can understand why people wouldn't like the market or alchemy system, but I liked them both. Thanks for the walk down nostalgia lane.

I loved the market scene. I actually wish more games had markets like this. Even markets where you could buy the same item at two different places, but like one of them could have a discount, or maybe you could either buy or trade. I thought it was really cool.

This video was entirely too short and I feel fails to state why this game is so good! But of course its your opinion!

I've actually come to appreciate this game more as I've gotten older. When I played it back when it first came out I was a bit disappointed because it was so different from Secret of Mana. However, now I really appreciate its uniqueness. I absolutely love the dialogue, the music and the overall atmosphere. Sure, it has some flaws, but overall I think this is without a doubt an underappreciated gem.

Edit: I wrote this before the launch of the video so it's cool to see you incorporate the commercial in the video Enter "secret of evermore commercial" in the youtube search bar. This is a hidden gem. Imagine being a kid in the 90s and this pops up in the TV.

The market is just an opportunity to get some money and items while waiting for the event at the square, which I'm pretty sure is mentioned. I found the hit detection better than in SoM and they did some other tweaks that make it play better to me, but yeah it can be annoying when charging up an attack and it misses due to dice rolls or your character doing a dodge based on that, taking priority over the attack. The "skullbats" can be annoying for sure, I tend to use spells on those or throw the spear. While the game can be a bit grindy as well as easy at times there's a good balance hack for that by ninakoru (there's one for 2-player too although there's a couple of issues with it). One of my faves on the SNES, it stands out as pretty unique despite starting out as a clone of sorts.

I think i'm still looking in the desert for that rare drop...

Even with the flaws, I still love it.

This was one of my favorite games and one of the most influential games I played growing up in the 90s. The soundtrack especially made a marked impression on me, as well as the prehistoric, classical, medieval, and futuristic settings. I doubt this game will ever see the light of day outside of the SNES cartridge, but it is always a delight to see it get nods online. Thanks for the retrospective of sorts!

I love this game. But, as someone who collects EVERYTHING (especially after the market portion) and would max level each new weapon or spell as soon as I got it (ingredients willing), I was never able to finish the game. Here's why. In the 3rd world, you have to rebuild a rocket to go to space and move to the 4th and final world. To do this, you have to collect 3 components. However, you can go back and get one of those components a 2nd time. Which you would do if you want to collect everything and maybe it can be traded for something later, like at the market. Unfortunately, the rocket, which bow has all of its 3 required components, will see that you have an extra, and think that its the first time its seeing it and now you need the other 2 components, which were boss drops and impossible to get again. And you've (I've) now hard locked myself into nonprogression. I never went back. Hundred hours to max everything and get to that point in the game just to be stuck and it doesn't feel good to have to go do it all again. I may be able to GameGenie those items back into my inventory, I never looked it up, but that's just kinda shitty. Still love the game though, and I enjoyed the market because I wanted to collect everything.

The problem was that Secret of Evermore was constantly compared to Secret of Mana and it is quite a different game. I love this game for the story and unique atmosphere and the market was part of that atmosphere for me.

I remember this game being hard as balls when I played it back in the day. The forest maze was the first and so far only time I have written to a game developer to ask for help.

I rented this game multiple times to beat it because i needed to know what my dog would turn into next.

I put this game at the top of my SNES favorites alongside Act Raiser and Chrono Trigger. It's so corny and classy and the music... WOW. SO GOOD. one of the best calming fun and innovative snes games on the system.

I enjoyed this more than Mana and I'm not ashamed to say it 😊

Secret of Evermore was one of the first games I ever got with MY money. Needless to say, it holds a special place in my heart despite all its shortcomings

Love this game til I die. Great story, man and his dog, great imaginative lands, GREAT SOUNDTRACK.

Oh, good old-fashioned American "isekai" lol. This game is such a vibe! I only wish they had made more in this style because back then, I actually preferred more action-style rpgs like this and SoM.

I enjoyed this game so much. The cover was really cool. I picked it up and started playing and felt much closer to the characters than I did in secret of mana. I had to keep a journal to remember where I was going and secret of mana between being able to afford to rent the game. I didn’t with Secret of evermore. I really enjoyed the lighthearted comedy because, to me, it seemed more like a game of a kid just trying to get home. And between himself and home was a lot of stuff to explore. I also really liked how the dog changed and how each utopia became a prison. 8:08

remember playing this game and beating it there was one glitch in the game with the bazooka, you really only need one ammo and you get infinite amounts from it and can just keep shoot till its maxed out in levels and its the only OP'ed weapon in the game

Most under rated SNES game ever! People who cannot figure out the hit detection should just stick to turn based games. The market scene isn't for everyone, but almost ever RPG makes you do drawn out stuff! I'm not a fan of the opera scene in FF6, but it's still my favorite game ever. And people still rave over that scene. I'd much rather be getting awesome gear than singing. SOE gets way too much flack on RU-vid, but it is easily one of the best RPGs on SNES.

Definitively underrated classic, but with the caveat that it needed mor polish. Aside from the hit point detection, a few bosses just are way too hard for their spot of the game (I especially think about the swamp monster). I really like the market sequence and how you couldnt just buy all alchemy ingredients everywhere. The slight inconvenience really showed how you were brought to a world where you couldnt get whatever you want in a supermarket. Add to that that you had to master every new weapon upon retrieval and it felt much more than any other RPG that you played some random Joe thrown in the adventure. If I look at action RPGs and action adventures of the era I knew, secret of mana only feels like tbis until you get your first magic and Zelda a Link to the past makes you instantly feel like a master of all once you pick up the sword (ymmv, maybe when you get the running boots, but still extremely early).

God I love this game. Just dripping with atmosphere. The professor, the castle, the ship.. just so much personality. And the alchemy system was sooo rad. Definitely needa replay it..

I was 15 in 1995, old good memories playing it. Secret of Mana was gold tier, A Link to the Past as well. Terranigma was good, and I loved Illusion of Gaïa. SNES era was top noch for RPG 🤩

I'm gonna give this game a try. I played Secret of Mana and enjoyed it and I've always wanted to try Secret of Evermore and the different gameplay mechanics like the alchemy sounds really cool.

The hitboxes are something one can get used to if they pay attention to which angle(s) work best on which enemies. After playing through the games a few times, if I miss an attack, I usually know why 80-90% of the time. It was usually something I did wrong, and I know exactly what I did wrong. It is true that they are not very intuitive but they are by no means impossible to understand. They are quite predictable in when you should swing and from what angle, what you should be aiming at. As for the market system, other than having to wait 15 minutes, you are by no means required to do anything in the market whatsoever, other than talking to someone who mentions the market closing and then just simply waiting. However, choosing to partake of the market, earns you some awesome gear if you choose to do that. You can get the tier 3 chapter 2 gear at the very beginning of the chapter if you come into it with some foreknowledge which is very helpful because Chapter 2 is a decent step up in difficulty from Chapter 1. The enemies hit harder, more enemies have status attacks (the staff guys' confusion...) and there's generally less room for error. As for the alchemy system, there's pretty much only 3 spells you need in the entire game right up until the end: Heal, Cure, and Crush. Everything else is a take it or leave it thing. Crush, once obtained, should be levelled ASAP on the skulls outside of Nobilia, that area east along the wall where all the skulls spawn (the best XP/money over time in Chapter 2 by far), and in fact leveling Crush only costs time, as casting 1 Crush on 3 Skulls (which is an instant one-hit kill on all 3 once you get Crush to lv2 or higher) returns more jewels than you spend on ingredients to cast Crush (along with a ton of XP to get overlevelled in a hurry). At the very end, you will want to add Aura to this list for obvious reasons. Flare and Mud Ball are mildly useful during the first boss fight to gain extra XP by killing its arms, but are otherwise not needed at all. If you need even more help, there's an infinite source of call beads on a particular square right outside the palace, where you can max out 99 call beads anytime you want after you get the dog back after the marketplace event.

I loved the game as a kid. The market sequence gets a lot easier when you interact with the quicksand pool just west of that city. I especially liked the medieval time for the vibe it had. Good times.

The ironic thing was. I never played Secret of mana. I played this one and loved it. One can wonder, had I played Mana, would I even have liked this? The game has many glitches and certainly is not revolutionary. But it was a nice play for its time, and what I heard in thesoundtrack worked for the stages. The bosses were difficult unless one leveled up the weapons. I even got nostalgia from it bu hats cause I played it in another place. A forgotten game with flaws, but look beyond that it is certainly another classic SNES RPG that may one day join the inspiration bundle for future Indie Games.

I've played through Secret of Mana a couple times. I've beaten Evermore at least 10 times. The atmosphere means it just never gets old.

I don't want to hear whining about the market sequence. We managed to gain everything even as 11 year olds. Also there's this "desert trick" 🤫

I think my biggest gripe with the game is that at the time I was playing Secret of Mana with my friend and we LOVED the coop aspect. We were super excited and he managed to get his parents to buy it......imagine our faces when the second controller did NOTHING. oof

An issue of Nintendo Power magazine had a full map and guide for what to purchase for the market area. My friend had a Nintendo Power subscription, and because of that we were able to work through it using the guide. And i actually have good memories of that part of SoE because of it lol. But looking back on it now as an adult, I wonder if that section was designed in such a way in order to sell copies of Nintendo Power? Square had a pretty good relationship woth Nintendo at the time so i wouldn't be surprised.

I personally liked the market place segment. It was a favorite memory. I did it at like 9 years old with no guide.

I've always loved Evermore more than Mana. It just feels good. Those flaws are super valid but the rest shines above it. I just love it! Id love some hacks make it a bit different

The alchemy system was somewhat self-defeating, as whenever you learned a new formula, you didn't know where or how often you could find the ingredients for it, which incentivized you to just level up the cheap formulas with easily buyable ingredients. If they remade Secret of Evermore, then in addition to fixing up the hit-detection, and search detection so you weren't pixel hunting for hours while your dog kept sniffing the same corner all the time, they would have to make sure all the ingredients can be replenished one way or another, maybe have the ingredients you find in the environment recur as you leave & re-enter or something.

Weird synergy, I was just looking up if there was any kind of fan remake or remaster of this yesterday 🤔🤔🤔

Awesome review! I own this and still haven't played it...one day haha, but really, it does look pretty neat, so I gotta check it out sometime!

I still have nightmares over the dog-running-through-the-castle-alone segment.

i think a big complaint from many people that hated the game was that spells required too many ingredients to gather too. not the early spells you get in the game but probably they meant the spells that you get much later in game. i dont remember how long it really took to gather the ingredients though since its been years since i played evermore. but im sure that i still liked the alchemy method of casting spells overall. i enjoyed it much more than secret of manas method of just spamming spells endlessly.

Definitely an underrated classic. I loved it back in the day. For the reasons you mentioned... Specially the resource management of my spells

When this game came out I rented it but never got past the bug palace. For some reason I couldn't find the path to get to the boss. Then many years later I saw it somewhere and decided to give it another go. I hadn't played secret of mana before so I went in with no expectations. I really enjoyed the game but I it felt very grindy to lvl up weapons and spells. On top of that I hated when I found a new spell but couldn't find the ingredients to use it. I have this game on my hacked mini snes.

I was the weird kid who always looked forward to the market sequence. I used to make a game out of seeing how much trading i could get done before the market closes the first time you get there.

I have complicated feelings about Evermore. On the one hand, even with the poor hit detection, i enjoyed combat here more than i did with Mana. Big thing helping that is you don't slow down while charging like in Mana. But on the other hand.. the several different labyrinths in the game were so, damn, tedious. So many aggravating maze sections that just drained my patience back in the day.

Surprised to learn this was such a polarizing game. I loved it. Underrated classic 100%

I played the game later than the release and wasn't aware of the marketing or anything else. We didn*'t have a PS1 or N64 at first, so I played the snes games in that era, which were also the first videogames i ver played. My brother had all of the RPGs so naturally they were the first things I played in 1997, when I was like 6/7. And Evermore was the third ARPG after Zelda and Secret of Mana I've played. I liked it..not as much as SoM, but still. Years later, when I was in my 20s, I replayed it and...it held up. Still liked it a lot.

There is no time limit to get the items in the market place. It temporarily closes for the event at the statue, but as soon as you beat that boss the market place is permanently back for you to get all the items with no time limit.

I remember liking this one a lot, though it did annoy the hell out of me that you had to upgrade every weapon independently. That is to say, instead of upgrading your skill to wield a type of weapon, such as swords or spears, you had to learn each weapon specifically, so you had no reason to upgrade that sword to level 3 because by then you had progressed enough that you'd found one or two stronger swords you had to upgrade from zero. Secret of Mana focused on weapon types, not on individual weapons.

Love this game. When I was still a Kid I had to keep my SNES at my Grandparents House and we usually visited them over the Weekend. I played the Game from start to finish every weekend for years. 100 Playtroughs easily. It's the only SNES Cartridge I still own. The Super Nintendo has a vast amount of Classic Games for sure, Secret of Evermore is pretty much in the top 5, to me at least.

Played this before secret of mana and i remember making a friend telling me about secret of mana... where the first boss is this bug thing and its an action rpg etc etc. Blew our minds when we found out about how our games were different haha. Enjoyed secret of evermore...but it did not have the charm Mana did. Still loved evermore though every time you would go to a new area was so awesome and the dog changing was so funny to me getting a poodle in the medival section was so funny.

I wish this game was popular enough to get a remaster like secret of mana did.

It's actually a fun game, though yeah... the hit detection is abysmal. I do like the market though, but it sucks you can only use it twice in the entire game. More games need a marketplace that feels alive, not static. And that you have to spend hours gathering components for alchemy.

It’s very clearly an American production. That’s why it feels so different.

The marketplace was just fine, and is a maze/puzzle area with the trade system. I had no problem with it then or now.

I beat it again last year, and mostly remember being annoyed by the mazes and slow pace to combat. But it's still likely one I'll play through again!

This is one of the ones I never finished. I remember most distinctly how frustrating combat felt, but I was also 13. I may have to give this one another go, now.

They don’t make games like this anymore . Miss these days of figuring stuff out and actually having to think about what you needed to do .. what a great game it will live in my memories always ❤

Despite the games flaws i still loved it, especially when i figured out how to cheese the final boss XD. But overall I understand how this game can be polarizing. Which is why i think this game is PERFECT for a potential Remake. Not only can they give the Main hero kid more personality and stakes they can improve the quality of the story telling and world building as well. I wouldn't mind this getting the 3D Trial or Secret of Mana treatment. HECK you could even add another Kid party member or two to give more variety to the story, like the boys friends came along on his journey!

I love this game in theory. I love the original story idea and I absolutely adore the OST. It had great ideas, but I think the biggest issue was it was a very inexperienced and young Dev team. They made everything from scratch and it was the first game for many of the people working on it. I think it's an underrated classic but with many frustrating flaws that could EASILY be remedied with a remake. Which is why I actually recently started concept art for a spiritual successor-ish game. I love the vibe so much!

I liked Secret of Evermore back in the day but I wasn't crazy about it and I can see why some didn't like it. For me the biggest disappointment was that it wasn't a sequel to Secret of Mana, especially since back then I knew that Seiken Densetsu 3 existed. Plus, it didn't help that Square just had 3 phenomenal games in Secret of Mana, Final Fantasy 3/6 and Chrono Trigger. So while Secret of Evermore was good, I think quite a few people (myself included) didn't feel like it was up to the same level as those 3.

If I had to say what is the most nostalgic game for me, it would be Secret of Evermore. I *adore* this game and would love a sequel, a switch port and to have its babies. And though you say the marketplace part was stupid, I loved that part of the game as a kid it is honestly probably one of the most memorable moments of the game for me. lol, though I can definitely see it not being fun to someone playing it for the first time in 'current year'. I used to have dreams about that marketplace when I was 7.

The soundtrack is by Jeremy Soule, the atmosphere alone is enough to make up for gameplay hiccups

My fav of all SNES RPGs! The soundtrack is so sick.

This game deserves a complete remaster but with a minimap added, easier acquisition of alchemy materiaks and lvling up alchemy attacks.

Secret of Evermore is one of my all time favorites. Only game I've been more than it is FF7. I absolutely love it.

My favourite game of all time ever since I played the game as a kid. I've played through this game more than probably any game ever, excluding short rouge-likes, but certainly when it comes to RPGs. I've played it a lot more again in recent years due to the randomizer called "Evermizer". A game I would recommend to anyone who enjoys (A)RPGs.

I personally loved this game. I'd love to see a remaster or something. Heck, even a simple port.

I didn't realize this until this video, but Podunk is the name of the place in Mother 1 (Earthbound Zero). But I do realize, this game took a lot things from other games, like Cecil from FF4 running an inn. All-in-all, I felt this polarizing effect you're talking about. When this game released, I didn't hate it. But knowing that this is what they passed as a sequel instead of the superior Seiken Densetsu 3, really soured the experience.

I would love a remake of it to fixed what’s wrong with it.

I remember playing this as a kid and being so excited I had a doggy co-op NPC. The game was too hard for me at the time, and I never went back to it for some reason. I dunno why I thought about it again this week. Maybe because Legends of Mana is on sale right now on steam.

Wish the video was a bit longer, but touched on a good bit. I enjoyed this game as a kid, as I was a big fan of Secret Of Mana. Rented it when it came out in late-1995 when I was 12 years old, and my brother and I beat it with not too much fuss. I hear people criticize the market scene, but I didn't have much trouble with it. Some navigation in Antiqua gave me trouble, as well as a little in Omnitopia, but overall, it is a pretty entry level RPG in my opinion. Great graphics, and the moody, atmospheric compositions were cool to hear back in the day!

I felt like the game had some pretty compelling elements, but it also showed me that I could dislike a game's combat even more than Secret of Mana's.

I actually played this game to the final credits. It is a pretty good game, but not as good as Secret of Mana despite having almost the same battle system. What I have always thought was a missed opportunity with this game is lack of a two-player mode with the dog, when even Mana could be played 3 player if you had 3 controllers and the multitap peripheral (making it quite curious why you could not play this one co-op).

Absolute Classic The market place was a thing you had to THINK through. I distinctly remember grabbing a piece of paper and pencil and trying to figure out the exact costs of all the items I needed. It was an excellent part of the game that required the player to act in the real world, not just interact with the screen. Any GOOD RPG has some feature like this. The hit mechanic is NOT random. It requires observation and precision. The main character wasn't "developed enough" ... I don't even understand this complaint. You wanted a rich philosophical character with a tragic backstory fighting for the human race and self-actualization? Dude. It's a kids game! Gimme a break! I loved the multifaceted aspects of this game that required some hand-eye coordination, some RPG, some bartering. Trying to get ALL the items and discover all the secrets is STILL a goal of mine. I'm attempting another playthrough and was looking up some YT videos. How's that for a backstory?

I liked this game a lot after playing it for the 1st time last year. The only section I got really angry with was the one later in the game where you're in the castle and it's like a maze and you're in the dark. I kept getting so turned around and lost. Other than that, solid experience!

I remember playing this still own it and i still don't know how I finished it

Cult classic. I thought it was really subpar when it came out and didn't truly appreciate it until years later. Like a lot of games of its time, it got judged too harshly for not measuring up to what came before it, which in this case was Secret of Mana, a landmark title at the time and the first instance of a Japanese RPG getting game of the year awards in western gaming publications. There was also the mistaken belief that it was released instead of Seiken Densetsu 3, which internet RPG nerds at the time called Secret of Mana 2, which further soured attitudes toward it. Basically, "We got this American knockoff piece of crap instead of the actual Secret of Mana 2?!" Also the market in Antiqua was a fun diversion, I get confused every time I see a review video saying it's the worst part of the game. Nobody ever talks about how Utopia feels blatantly rushed and unfinished, for me that was the biggest letdown.

I personally like Secret of Evermore. It does a lot of things better than Secret of Mana although I think the latter is still the best game overall. But I can understand why Square Enix would rather forget about Secret of Evermore. It had very high developing costs back in 1995, sold poorly and quite frankly the game isn't really that popular outside of a niche internet community.

Not just people were taking it as Secret of Mana sequel, gaming magazines during that time indirectly "advertise" it as such too... I never get to finish the game, I only remember I got so frustrated that I stopped

I swear i did find the place that sells dry ice in the space station area. I remember finding it in one of the secret back area's that you have to walk around in the dark off screen and being annoyed it was so damn exspensive. It was not a NPC but rather it was an alcove or like an ATM in the wall that sold them. But I have never seen it since and cant find it again. Annoys me to no end but I have recently started playing again and want to give it another try to find it. Always been my favourite game, and I prefer it over Mana.

wow that commercial was crazy!

i prefer this over mana, while the game has its problems it has some charm to it and i love breaking the game lol I'm also not a fan of ai companions and since i can just turn off the dog i can play it like a normal action rpg. also since its relatively short it doesnt really overstay its welcome. overall i think its worth atleast a playthrough.

Hi there, names brice first time commenting, 3 year listener. Let me just say I love your reviews especially on the classic playstation 1&2 video games so I have to ask. Why haven’t you covered Legend of Legaia for ps1 it’s a amazing game and I would love to see you review it. Again love your videos, I run a small business and do nothing but build furniture so listening to your content really makes the time fly by 👍🏻. Keep up the amazing work and check out legend of Legaia.

Had lot of fun playing this game .

The funny thing is that the game is actually better nowadays than Mana :D

I need to revisit this one, I was young and didnt grasp the concept of it

Underrated classic, one of my favs

You know what they say, yoge kusoge : P Just kidding, this game is fascinating. It's about how much control you want to have of your dreams, a reflection on why we play games if you will. It's so uncanny and I love it for that reason!

I liked the sound, especially the laughing and talking on the market place.

This was one of my favorites growing up

I got secret of mana and my cousin got secret if evermore. I think I won😂 but still, I always considered secret of evermore really eerie and intriguing. Definitely not a game I would criticize

Bought this at a yard sale when I was late teens, and never did beat the game. Remember a rat boss that had a difficulty spike and plants in a dark room that OHKO you.

I always loved Evermore because of the story and the great atmosphere settings, including the music. It sure has some less enjoyable parts (such as the market or the sewers), but overall, I enjoyed it very much and played it several times.

Best game with a dog companion. Fable and Fallout were okay but this game made you feel attached to them. Highly underrated.

The hit detection is fine. When you swing and miss, you were evaded my friend.

The market was rough. I had to navigate it in French as a kid. And mind you: I didn't speak that language. But my parents bought it for me… in French. I liked the game, though. :)

for me this game was the best rpg on the snes, while i dont remember why i disliked secret of mana and stoped playing somewhere at the beginning

I first played it in 1998 and fell in love with it. I wich thay remaster it on switch

Sweet video. I say get the rom hack where someone can control the dog if ya wanna play it. 🍻