SHORT SUBJECT #8 Dial vs Test Indicators tubalcain starrett 

The kids that Mr. Pete taught had no idea what a wealth of knowledge they had at their disposal. Always very grateful for the knowledge you share Mr. Pete.

I'm stuck in a hotel room out of town. I always learn something from your contributions. Started reading The Bible placed by Gideons. In the first few pages, I got it. Thank You Sir!

After spending close to 50yrs building injection molds, I always had a “cheap” dial indicator available in my tool box for lathe work where the location of the indicator could be subjected to being hit by hot chips. Back in the 70’s, we built a cover/lid that had threads inside. One of the guys in the shop set one in the lathe and cut the threads out and opened the inside dimension to fit a dial indicator as a cover. The molding department ran a short run while sampling the mold with clear material. Everyone in the shop made them into protective covers for their dial indicators! Still have mine.

Good subject. I was about 12 years when my dad told me how to use a dial indicator to precisely set up the ignition advance in my 50cc moped

Very well done! As a maintenance technician I used indicators far more frequently than my micrometers. I once claimed to own at least 40 quality indicators, but on last count it was only in the 30's. Starrett makes some of the finest, but their more modern styles of test indicators priced out of my laborer's budget. For that reason, I have favored B&S and Mitutoyo. I own indicators in numerous configurations, but none with uncommon facing dials. My work demanded test indicators more than dial, or as I call them, travel indicators. I own indicators up to 4" of travel and down to .00005" resolution. I finally purchased an Interapid, mostly as a retirement novelty. While highly esteemed and having the largest range of test indicator travel, I didn't use them. They are more easily damaged than other brands, developing backlash on directional change that is not perceptible to the user. I cannot recall inspecting any Interapid shop owned indicator that hadn't been damaged. I concluded that trust was too significant and settled for the more robust brands over the advantages of more travel and nice large dials, and reduced investment costs. Indicators are built on different mounting platforms. The platform determines the base or mount. Like the battery tool makers, once in a specific platform, you are encouraged to stay in the platform or own a variety of bases and/or attachments. Starrett and Interapid mounting styles are not as widely copied by other makers making them less universal. Once in a platform, you could easily embrace the related attachments for specific tasks. I found the Starrett platform clunky for my demands, but Adam Booth routinely demonstrates how they serve the lathe machinist well. I bought a BesTest as my first test indicator with .030" range and .0005" resolution. I added a long swivel dovetail attachment to the kit and used this indicator or its attachments for most of my other indicators as my go to set up. Couple good indicators with premium bases and you will have delightful and reliable performance. Noga is hard to beat for function and is priced reasonably. My inventory big three indicators are Starrett, B&S and Mitutoyo. Other premium makers are less available, pricey or quirky to my experience. Other more affordable brands introduce lack of trust to me, but I have some of those brands. Brands like Fowler can be premium or absolute trash. I bought a bargain Fowler test indicator set to gain a cute and tiny mag base that I thought would be useful. They packaged an acceptable test indicator with a base that is an embarrassment. Brand name indicator button assortments are worth owning. I mostly favored only large, medium and standard buttons, so the enormous tip kits I regard as novelties.

Well I am embarrassed to say after all these years I didn't know there was a difference between test and dial indicators. Thank you Mr Pete. Always a great watch.

I ask all reading this to give it a like. We should nominate Mr. Pete as a National Treasure to be enshrined at the Smithsonian Institution.

Lyle - Funny how some of us end up with numerous indicators, isn't it?! I believe your one mechanical test indicator is an old Ideal one, made in Rochester, NY. At least it looks to be like the one I inherited in my Dad's Gerstner box. He worked on a machine floor for a year or so before going into the AAF in WW2. Wrapped up his tools and put away when he left - ended up in a different job when he came home. I inherited the box and most of the tools after his death. It did not have a ton of use and is still smooth but I have never used it on an actual project. One of these days I guess I should take that one a a couple real old ones (like the ones you showed) I have and do a comparison with newer test indicators. As it is all a ratio mechanical linkage they probably will all dial something in better than my machining abilities can match. Thanks for a good short.

To be honest Mr Pete, I wasn't expecting too much yet I was "wowed" at the content. Thank you once again. :-)

With a smile and a good heart... Short video, a novell of comments... Quoting You: "I've laid out some of my indicators"..... Why on earth buy that many? Okey, You might be like me, laying them down and later not finding them... I use 2 calipers for that reason... Most indicators sleep in a special drawer... Digital ones running out of battery... I've got an angle indicator. It worked at delivery but next time, it was dead. The manual told why. The battery lasts for one year... CR2032... My response is to keep the battery beside the angle indicator... Just checked my 3digital scales on the mill..... 1 dead and 2 grasping for power. 6 CR2032 batteries needed before using the next time... Now I know that.... Thanks for the video! Time 05:35. I did the same, opened one having issues. Hundreds of TPI on those gears.... Clamping the stem too hard got it stuck!

I was finally able to watch a new Mr. Pete video within a few hours of it's posting instead of days later. I used to be able to watch them soon after posting and I miss that. Thank you Mr. Pete for many years of education and enjoyment!

Great long short video and an indication that you have a lot of tools. Thanks and keep on keeping on.

Can’t forget the coax style indicators! It is one of the styles I use most often.

Thanks for the Video Mr.Pete. I use mostly the Starrett 196 at work for checking alignment.

Made me want to go down to my shop and play with my collection. I found it interesting that you have several indicators that you said you have never used. I’m the same.

Thanks for showing the innards! Alwways wondered how they work.

Very nice collection of indicators.Thank you for showing them.Now,I finished my first steam (air)engine today.It works.

I have many attachments that came with my starret last word, but don't know what they are for. No instructions. It was my Grandfather's. I was hoping you would make a video on how to use them.

I'm partial to Last Word indicators as well, though I understand why many folks don't like them. I like the small size to get into tight spots, versatile mounting methods, and the half-yellow scale is nice when you have to use a mirror. But the real reason is simply that I like the old-timey look.

On the Last Word indicators, I typically use the B&S Best Tests, I simply like them better. However, for some things, the Last Word's small size and its multiple methods of mounting will fit in tight spots where others don't dare to go! I have a bunch of indicators, more than enough really, but what I never seem to have is enough mounting hardware! I am always looking for another snug or rod it seems to get where I need to go! And build custom mounts as needed. Maybe you could show some of the multiple ways to use the readily available mounting hardware and accessories. The old Starrett catalogs often had illustrations of how to set them up. And finally, back plunger indicators never seem to get the love they deserve, they are very useful for many things. You could probably do a whole video on using the back plunger indictor and all its accessories, same with the Last Word. Cheers Mr Pete, keep 'em coming

Learned a ton from this video Mr. Pete. Thank you!🇺🇸

Very well done! I am also a fan of the Last Word indicators and don’t understand what many good machinists dislike about them.

Being a home gamer, I don't use my electronic dial indicators very often, but...Murphy's law prevails when I do. Can't beat the mechanicals for reliability when you really need it. Same holds true for battery drills. Thank you sir for another great video.

About three-years ago, a man on eBay had about eighty plunger type indicators that he somehow acquired when an old Dodge car factory shut down. I was able to purchase all of them for about $80 dollars (a dollar per indicator) and about thirty of them were broken beyond repair. I cleaned and oiled the ones that were salvageable and took them to work and sold several to my coworkers for $5 dollars a piece. Most were Federal brand indicators that only had a range of less than 1/8th an inch, but many had a resolution of .0001" and I even got one very large Indicator marked "Dodge" on the dial face. I still have about thirty of those indicators sitting in a toolbox.

Good advice about avoiding Chinese indicators: I had a Starrett Last Word my Dad gave me but it got misplaced during a move. I bought a cheap Shars to replace it but then later found the Last Word again. Using both of them, there’s no comparison: the Shars’ movement is sticky and uneven. It eventually measures accurately enough, but the Starrett is silky-smooth and a joy to use by comparison.

I got a digital indicator and magnetic base from harbor freight it suits me and my projects good enough and it was only around $20 i think. I can't imagine it's perfect but for the price I'm not complaining. I've made a few things for the farm and hobby work. So far so good! It's about 4 or 5 months old

Thanks Mr Pete. That Dave Clark one makes me "Glad all Over"

Thank you Mr. Pete. I had no idea how these worked internally, I haven't seen that earlier video.

Excellent Mr. Pete. Thank you for posting!

After a long career in electronics, still I agree with you-analog indicators are the better choice versus electronic ones for longevity. Who knows how long the ICs inside will be available if someone would wish to repair one. Granted, repairs would be infrequent, but still... Great content as usual!

Great video…maybe do a video on different ways to set them up on machines and how they can be used in different situations 🤷‍♂️

My dad was a Machinist in the tool room of a large Water/Fuel pump manufacturer. He only used a test indicator "LAST WORD" once in his 30 years of employment.

Hi Mr Pete those Starrett dial indicators are nice reminds me of old Stewart Warner gauges they are top notch. JM

Love you! Thanks for the content. You are awesome, my father is severely challenged with tech. You are an inspiration!

Nicely done. I am an ex-machinist turned Engineer many years ago, and I found it interesting how I/we call them by different names. For example, I have always referred to them by their type of mechanism = pivot indicators vs. plunger indicators. On the other hand, most people I meet use your terminology test indicator vs. dial indicator, and some just group them all together and call them dial indicators. I am biased toward my naming convention as both can have "dials", and both can be used to measure or "test".

Good afternoon and thanks Lyle. Always good to see different indicators, oh and I like the shirt too.

Thanks for sharing all the good info Mrpete

Thanks Mr. Pete very interesting. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for posting Mr Pete.

Great video Mr. Pete!

Great topic. Didn't know the difference though I have both. I've found some great eBay deals on indicators that I send to Precision Instruments in Pomona Calif. for refurbishment.

Nice one Mr. Pete! Thanks!

I have over half a dozen Starrett Last Word indicators, and they are my favorites too. I'm really partial to Starrett.

Thanks Mr. Peterson!

Enjoyed the Dave Clark Five joke very much!

Aahhh, clarity. Thanks, Mr Pete.

Thanks for the video!

Thank you Mr Pete.

Very informative, thank you.

Very interesting and informative. Nice collection!

Thank you for your education and time !! I know both are very valuable .

Thanks for the video.

Great video. Thanks again for another clear explanation of the differences.

nice to see with morning coffee, have a nice day Mr. Pete

Thank you Mr. Peterson for another great video! As mentioned before, I always learn something from watching your videos. I have several of the indicators you pictured, but have a better understanding now of the differences between them. Keep educating me and everyone else!

Pretty hip cat with your Dave Clark 5 reference. Then I realized you're only a few years older than I am. Have a Great Day Mr. Pete.

You are a very good teacher Sir, thank you for an informative video. Like the small, needle test indicators and they would have done the job.

Thanks for sharing 👍

Well done sir.

Keep the videos coming.

Dial indicators are good for alignment/indicating, digital ones are used for measuring only I think. I bought a bunch of new Starrett tools and have been thoroughly disappointed in them. I will only buy Mitutoyo for my premium measuring tools going forward. You'd think with 100+years of metallurgical development that Starrett could find better materials that don't rust for hand tools and that they could make a 1" dial indicator that reads 1.000" at 1.000" of stroke instead of 0.999". Works fine for indicating, but not for measuring. I could buy a $25 Chinese one for that instead of $250 Starrett one.

Excellent video.

Thank you for sharing.👍👀

Thanks. 👍

Quite interesting.👌

Great video

Thank you. Can you consider doing a video on how to use the attachments and doodads.

I'm a big fan of Verdict 08_3001 Dial Test Indicators. As a stylus type indicator, for a long time they were all I knew. There are aspects of them in each of the test indicators you have on the table there but none of those indicators have all of the features that I appreciate so I'm going to have to say for me they are the best. Externally the fit and finish seems as good as the American and Japanese brands but I'm not sure how the internals compare...for a while I thought they were Swiss, and the Swiss know a bit about clocks, but I've just noticed for the first time in years, right at the bottom of the dial it says "England".

Good video

I can’t believe I’ve spent a decade guessing at this stuff when someone out there knew everything about all of it 🤦🏻‍♂️

Imo always use a DTI unless measuring distance. Also on the lathe. Also the modern(ish) DTI's I have opened had gears inside. They were Mahr "Puppitast" and I believe most other ones are too with gears now.

I like the Last Word indicators as well. Although most of my dial and test indicators are Federal, I have a couple B&S and Starrett.

I’ve always heart dial indicators called “travel” indicators and then test indicators.

You know he was a great shop teacher because he still has all of his fingers... I'm sure "safety first" was something that was stressed to his students from their first day till their graduation.

IMHO, electronic indicators and verniers in the home shop, where they are not used daily, always have the potential to have a dead battery when they are needed. This means wasted time installing a new battery if you take yours out to prevent corrosion between uses. It also means having good batteries on hand. In shops that work daily all year long electronic indicators may be alright. Those antique test indicators are in great shape.

If Bubba is in charge the electronic ones will definitely be garbage but still around because maybe magic will bring it back to life.

Good Morning Mr. Pete, I need a linear adjustable mount for my .0001 travel indicators with only .050 operating range. I use a mighty mag base placed on the ways of a lathe but the magnet is so strong that it's hard to smoothly slide the indicator point into contact with the apron. Sooner or later I'm going to ruin my indicator by jabbing it into the machine apron too hard. Do you know of any small, low profile and locking sliders that can be mounted on a Mighty Mag? I've considered a camera lens bellows but they're too big and might get bumped.

Great video, I think I have a small test indicator, picked it up at a fleamarket, needs cleaning. Have a great day

You should get one that’s post 1990

How do I get one of those printed Starrett catalogs? Are they all antiques now?

What's a technique for cleaning the stickiness? I'm thinking of spraying/rinsing brake cleaner inside while working the mechanism. Then dry and lube the moving parts with a pinpoint oiler.

Never knew there was a difference.

Wasn’t this available previously? I swear I’ve watched this one before….?

There are many good brands that are not American, I have British brands that are just as old as your American brands and still working perfectly, not to mention Swiss, Japanese and German. I have your beloved Starret brands which are so sticky that I binned them.

Where can I get a shirt like that one. I apologize if it has already been said I have a severe case of Crs.

###I have recently acquired a Bridgeport model A lathe, says 3 ft bed I think it's a 9in. Need to know if oneof your classes is for this lathe. Looks like it's not abused. Very dusty medium rust. Some tooling. PLEASE HELP. Thank you sir for your educational videos.

"I'm in pieces, bits and pieces," around 1964 or 65

👍🏻

We call them "Dial Test Indicators here. DTI for short.

Swiss made is best for both types.

A shame you didn't disassemble the test indicators, although the Last Words are almost impossible to reassemble. Some have levers, the Last Words have a spiral-groove pinon, and the Brown & Sharp/Interrapids use a sector gear.

Oiling an indicator usually makes matters worse if it has been sticking. I've found that I'm better off washing the indicator out with Naptha from the hardware store. DON"T use acetone! It will ruin the dial's printed face and fog the crystal if it is plastic. If you opt for oil use something like Starrett instrument oil. Apply with the tip of a toothpick onto the pivots. A drop of oil is enough to lubricate 10 indicators. Remember that the mechanism moves slowly and 99.9% of the time not really used very much in the home shop. Skipping oiling the indicator isn't going to hurt anything over the next 100 years or so.

1906? So Dave Clark was probably taught by Kieth Richards?

The digital indicators and measuring equipment all SUCK. I have 80 year old mics, indicators, etc and they all work flawlessly and accurately. I also have digital tools, starrett, mitutoyo, el cheapo, etc. EVERY tool that i have that’s failed on its own volition is an electronic tool. From my starrett digital mic that now only works as a very heavy and bulky analog mic, to my el cheapo brand digital indicator that now works only as a paper weight. I will no longer buy digital tools, they are built to fail and be replaced. go ahead, argue about your expensive digital calipers all you want, they will fail, eventually.