Should the Primarchs Keep Returning? by PancreasNoWork - Reaction 

I hope that Vashtor's existence is a hint towards a possible peter turbo return

Konrad's head on Ferrus body. Lets fucking goooooo.

Only Sanguinius, Horus, Konrad, Alpharius or Omegon and Ferrus cannot return due to obvious reasons. I really hope if Alpha legion Primarch is added we never get to know if it is Alpharius or Omegon still alive.

Lion is apparently forgiving Fallen. Not a lot of people expected that. I think.

I agree that xenos need better writing, but at the same time Primarchs should return. Eternal stagnancy doesnt work. Fantasy endtimes happened because people left for more interesting things, if they had done more to advance it and had setting changing events more often it would have fared better. AoS has alot of interesting things to it and I think if they keep it up as it is I think most bitter endtimes haters will warm up to it..... not to endtimes themselves they are still terrible.

They should bring a past Eldar from ages long past awakening and find himself into the 42nd Millennium and seeing the bad situation the Eldar are in and how terrible their unity is and how incompetent they are making enemies and being preyed upon by a Chaos god and how arrogant and shortsighted they are. And so makes his own faction of Eldar and has better morale standing and better knowledgeable practices then most of them do and is disgusted and abhore of the Dark Eldar and how the Eldar Empire fell and created a Chaos god.

I understand where he's coming from, but simultaneously I think most if not all of the issues he has with Primarchs returning aren't directly a fault with the characters. If GW had consistently competent writing none of that would be an issue bc we would have plenty characters at least comparable in importance in all major factions. It would be AWESOME to have more Orks like Ghazghkull, who are actually competent leaders while still being distinctly Orky. It would be great if the Eldar primarch equivalents were finally given respect they deserve cause there are loads of cool characters in the Eldar lore that are basically shelved by GW... It would be fantastic to see more Necron Overlords doing stuff, especially since characters like Imotekh are as direct a match up for a Primarch as it gets. Primarchs returning wouldn't be an issue neither from a narrative stand point, nor from the table top player's point of view, if GW was competent at their job...

So with the initial question before watching, only IF the xenos are given corresponding buffs to preserve the balance of power and throw their players some overdue bones. The Imperium is already in a dangerously powerful position with an admirable administrator and a jerk demigod knight ready to go crusade. Now, the Necrons got the Silent King, so he can crack open ancient vaults and possibly activate a world engine for his rear line flagship, Ghazghul Mag Uruk Thraka can keep Gazzing up his troops, the Traitor primarchs are already shaking off the sloth and mustering their damned sons or even just scheming (while Lorgar is either hiding under his bed or being chased), but the Craftworlds need to bring out the as yet unmodeled and even unnamed Phoenix Lords, the knife ears need some new barge or abomination from the Homunculi, the Exodites need actual dino models, and the Tau need to make greater use of auxiliaries and possibly add a new flyer in medium to superheavy weight. Also maybe letting human auxiliaries into the CQC suits. I already expect the Squats to have something waiting in the wings as the newest army, the Ad Mech can easily be written to have some ancient toys they've been sitting on, the Custodes are already pretty kick ass, the Sisters recently got their not popess in a mini mech, but they'll need something as more come back (I don't know what beyond a Primaris level tech peace offering by Cawl). Not sure what to give the Guard beyond 30k tanks, and I'm 90% sure that GW is building towards a normal scale Imperator, so Titanicus is covered. The idea of perpetual war with a relative balance is upset by the Primarchs returning, so all the other factions need to keep up in lore and tabletop. Oh, and the dead should stay dead. How... How do the Word Bearers believe they did it? Like... HOW!? I know warp nonsense can go backwards in time and they're the legion whose main samples were dropped the most, but even then! I hope to hear of initial major friction on the Senator and the jerk knight reuniting, especially given one of the last times they saw each other, the jerk knight did multiple exterminatus to planets to get a single dude when Guiliman explicitly told him not to. But then have the Jerk Knight really see his brother. Cast his eyes around Terra and the war room. Have him start asking questions and realize the gravity of the situation. Realize that he can't lead and that the boy scout is emotionally suffering with every breath in ways Kurze would get warm and fuzzy over. For sure, Gaz needs to remind Angron that he's not all he's cracked up to be.... though as I type this I realize that rageaholic really isn't all that much. His most recent claim to fame was killing an aged mortal. He's just too dumb for his own good. Oh for sure. I'm a xeno fanboy first, but every faction has some level of wonderful aesthetics, and the Primarchs get to splurge on aesthetic. I mean, a part of me wants to see thee saner factions take their heads out of their exhausts, think, and align. A true alliance of Necrons, Tau, Eldar, humans, and whoever else can be welcomed in safely and sanely. First, form a hardened joint line to out adapt and outlast the 'nids so they break upon the milky way. Next, tackle the Orks. After that, the Drukhari. Finally, improve quality of life overall to slowly mend the warp and diminish or change the ruinous powers. Though this is the sane long term plan, it's also so antithetical to grimdark perpetual war it's not even funny. Ah, yes, they're attention magnets sucking attention away even from other named humans. I hadn't considered that part. And fair on how it is reasonable to ask why they're not involved in some major theoretical future events. I mean, some idiot balls were bouncing around like the Baylor Dodge Ball, but even just by showing the Primarchs as human, I can see how someone might reasonably argue that demystifies the demigods of lost might and power.... though I'd also point to mythology being full of very human and exaggerated human behavior. In the wider world, flawed demigods and flawed gods aren't the exception, they're the rule. Jesus, God, Yaweh, Allah, etc., they're the weird ones. Therre is exactly one Phoenix Lord given Primarch power of the outcomes. Maugan Ra. He's also the least Craftworld and most Imperium looking of the bunch, which I don't feel is coincidental. Frankly, the higher baseline performance and greater experience makes me feel that the Phoenix Lords and Khaine getting dunked on regularly is even more unreasonable. Their eldest carry memories of The Fall and the younger the days after. Only the most elite of an Aspect may be considered to give their body to their founder. They should be living legends given respect. Not stomped flat by a Night Lords dread. I blame the stupid on bad human centric writing more often than not. Ultimately, I refuse to see GW playing undue imperium and marine bias as inevitable. If I really though they couldn't do better, then I'd just move on. But I feel GW could think for 20 minutes, so I stay mad and disappointed. It's not even just greed. They are ignoring a product they could make for greater profits. The death of variety is a fair point, even if a temporary one I think they learned not to end times.

About the Tyranids and the Eldar, The Swarmlord and The Avatar of Khaine have been used as punching bag for named characters, they need lore that shows that they are not just jobbers. Like have the Swarmlord face down Abaddon and chop his arms off, giving Chaos a big loss. Have the Avatar kick Fulgrim in the Balls or something.

As much as it would drive some fans into a homicidal rage, imagine if one or more of the Primarchs returned in a different faction. Maybe what remains of Ferris Manus gets taken over by the living metal and his corpse becomes a mindless drone in service to the Void Dragon or the Necrons. Maybe one of the missing Primarchs is found by the wretched Tau, mind broken from whatever caused them to turn from the Imperium, who use their technology to convert them into a champion for the humans under their rule.

New Vox In the Void Night lords video just drooped

I'm still holding a candle for an Ocean's 11 (Warp's 8, lol) style heist by the Ynnari on Slaanesh's domain to get the last crone sword that features Omegon recruited by Eldrad (or by Trazyn, who I also want roped in).

Old man the iron warriors got a video from warrior tier recently IRON WITHIN IRON WITHOUT!

I would like some more Second and 11th Primarchs detail drops.

"He was a dick." Let's be honest, the Emperor redefined the term "dick."

Of all the books I've read, a story does not have to maintain its genre while ending it. Tragedies have ended with hopeful happy futures implied. 40k can end with a traditionally good ending, keeping it grimdark for the sake of grimdark sounds a lot like ruining story for any other reason. Not that i think 40k is ending, in fact the return of Guilliman could possibly be only mid-series on this scale of story, but if it is ending, 40k does not have to still be a story about a decaying empire prolonging its inevitable destruction, it does not have to end with the Imperium failing. Imo, it would have to end with the conclusion of a desperate act of survival that leaves the Imperium victorious over its enemies but also completely destroyed.

One of the reasons I love this channel for its reactions is that, somewhat frequently, you will disagree with the conclusion a video comes to, but you will almost never give the *creator* of the video crap for coming to that conclusion. You can accept that they have their own thoughts and opinions, and acknowledge when they have points that are technically correct, but just don't sway you. Great content

Right, exactly. Things will be thrown off balance, but they can be countered balance. Yes I'd like to see all the primarchs back, but they would kinda stop the imperium from dying, with new tech new soldiers and so on, but here's the big issue, if that does not happen, then what else? I get it, the dread is right at not completely dead and not saved either, but progress does eventually happen. And there are many ways to make it so it's not completely broken. Example: what's actually already happening the new tyranid wave, okay another example, some of the new primarchs atent going to be directly working for the imperium, let me explain The Khan and Curze, the Khan can literally come back then immediately leave off, only coming in the aid of his brothers when needed, that's literally his character, next Curze, the Eldar soul gem from his crown, he gets jammed into a Wraithbone, as this sort of pseudo eldari primarch, and starts prepending his mistakes, recovering his legion, doing work against the chaos and traitors and so forth, maybe he'll go on this journey to get a human body and he'll probably end up with something in the middle. That's the main picture, now, 3rd case, Ferrus Manus, he's just right the way he is, a demon head loyal primarch, he just comes in aid when needed as well, yes, it's kinda stagnant, but chaos is a thing, and so on. Next can of worms, I'd love to see Fulgrim back, on a path similar to that of his finding, an extremely small number legion that goes full force 24/7, I think him back would be quite epic, I mean loyalist Fulgrim, and he could be duking it out with the chaos fulgrim, maybe he'll actually work a little bit from the shadows, like Alpharius (yes 100% he's alive), together with Alpharius maybe, while Lion and Guilliman have their secret inquisition wars, what if Sanguinius would return as well and they'd make imperium secundus, not as antitetis to the imperium but as an actually ready and steady backup, what if Valdor comes back and it's revealed he's one of the lost primarchs and actually agrees with the inquisition so he remains neutral and closer to the eye of terror. And let's be honest, Rogal or Leman would be just right for them to come back to take on the hive fleet leviathan. Maybe one of them could even form a campaign to branch of the milky way, maybe to another galaxy in search for the tyranid sources. All of this would allow their return, while getting to work and not just breaking the game. I mean shit, what if, with the return of primarchs and what not, the orks start to evolve into krorks as well, and eldari into the ancient eldari

2:50 not all of them left two stayed with him malcodor and the christin well until the war put in the thrown for good most likely.

Vulkan would consider killing an Eldar a good past time and for a good reason and no one sane would fault him.

I want Sanguinius to return so that he can give the traitor legions and Angron PTSD of the ass whooping that he gave them during the siege of Terra.

Daddy Peter Comesback? We gonna smash fists

Dorne is already there under the name Adorable. 😅

I doubt Corax, Ferrus Manus and so one will return. I mean, how many normal special characters does those chapters have?

Imagine if the Iron Warriors at any Time the entire legion Primarch Leading them decided to take a crack at Cadia at any point

I said this on his vid and I’ll say it here the primarchs returning is in my mind a all or nothing thing they’ve started now they have to go all the way with it or some fans are going to get mad. If they weren’t going to bring back all the ones that are still alive then none of them should’ve come back.

Question because I would like to get people's legitimate opinion on it. What is more grimdark (since WH40k coined grimdark): The Imperium finally falling because the Primarchs fail or the Primarchs leading to a resurgence that continues the perpetual war? An ending would have solace because it actually gets to end, but advancing the Imperium so it can continue the war because it is futile in the end would be worse because there is no hope: nothing truly ends...

Personally, I want there to be a 'What if?' model range where you can use Loyalist versions of the Traitor Primarchs and their Legions and Traitor versions of the Loyalists and their Legions. How in the Emperor's grill you could swing that into something lore friendly is a veritable Pandora's Box, but with Fabius Bile being able to clone uncorrupted Primarchs like he's using a goddamn printer and alternative universes and timelines being something repeatedly confirmed to exist in 40k, I could accept the Chaos Gods having one last Hail Mary plan where they pull in Primarchs they corrupted in alternate realities. It would be STUPID, but it COULD be the FUN kind of stupid where everything the balance of power is always shifting and keeping things interesting. As for the other factions? Yeah, each notable army should have a Primarch equivalent. Phoenix Lords are one thing since the Eldar are just better on average than most other armies, but the Orks, Tau, Necrons and even the Dark Eldar don't have a Primarch equivalent, or if they do it's something like Ghazghkull where they have one equivalent for the entire race, compared to the 9 options Space Marines and Chaos Marines have.

Doesn't it mostly depend on how well they are all going to cooperate? Cause we sort of know what the chaos boys are up to. They do not really get along. If all the loyalist primarchs come back and work together they are at a bit of an advantage right? Would that force the chaos ones to sort of put their differences aside (beside Lorgar cause he is useless) and have a battle plan? Abdandon guy is sort of a putz right? What if he has to fight the Lion?

Oh what I would give to bring my father back.

I actually have a theory on Konrad Curze coming back. I mentioned in his FML that I wanted Gendor Skraivok to return as a foil to Decimus, the plot I had in mind for this fight is both of them finding the location of Kurze's crown(with the Soulstone, yes I believe that) and racing to grab it. Decimus wouldn't necessarily want Kurze to return, but Skraivok would be trying to sacrifice Kurze to the Dark Gods to more favor/power. Now I'm not to keen on Kurze coming back completely, but I would like to Decimus communing with his spirit after keeping his Crown away from Skraivok and cementing his role as Legion Master.

Ironically most of the traitor legions didn't join the heresy because of Chaos. Angron, Mortarion, Perturabo and Magnus, didn't join because of Chaos, most joined because they had a genuine grievance with the Emperor. It was only really Lorgar, Horus and Fulgrim that were corrupted by Chaos, and even then Fulgrim's fall was more nuanced. And no one really knows what was going on with Alpharius and Omegon and Conrad was just batshit to begin with, he was only really interested in getting to the point where he dies in his visions

I'm with the Old Man with this! The Imperium is so screwed, unf-ing itself will take a long time and would produce a lot of compelling stories. Being grim-dark all the time isn't really compelling, people get pretty bored with it, everyone being evil, again, too homogenous. Having a feel-good story here and there when the heroes are actual heroes, when good people are not punished for being good, where stupidity does not triumph all the time... A story of redemption would be far cooler than staying with the status quo. Also, just because the Imperium is becoming better, more progressive, less evil, etc., that does not mean that the end-times are not coming. There are more than enough horrifying things in WH 40k that will keep that element of the universe. Even if the Imperium would turn into post-scarcity Star Trek, everyone is nice, humanity is uniting everyone who is nice enough to recruit for an alliance, even if it went that route, the 'Nids are still a thing, Chaos is still a thing, Dark Eldar are still a thing, Orks are not the worst allies until there are no more enemies you can give them, then they turn on you or one another, because "Orks". The Tau could be friendly after they unscrewed their own brainwashed heads, and that's the thing with them, that might be a whole can of worms. The Necrons have the Silent King, and he isn't 100% a douche, he'd probably even consider working with others too if his own efforts to quell the 'Nids fail, however the Stormlord will never-ever ally with anyone because he is a douche, which will probably result in an all-out Necron civil war too, their degradation will also keep producing horror stories too. Even if you went fully puppy-loving pacifist with the Imperium, there would still be a lot of massacre and war, and the resulting alliance of all decent sentients of the galaxy, chances are that Alliance would still be on the verge of death, may take a lot longer for Chaos or the 'Nids or something else to overcome them, but they still would eventually as things stand. The Primarchs as well as Big E could come back, would not change much, for humanity it would still stay a bad time. The one thing I dislike about WH 40k is when a story is evil for evil's sake and has no true motive just a dumb excuse for it.

Imagine your entire army is just Loyalist or Traitor Primarchs...

I’m not gonna be happy until Sanguinius returns… then they can stop…

Really, the onion knight? Davos is a bad ass yes, but the Lion looks more like Tywin and anything else is heresy.

To be honest I don't think GW will have the imperium collapse due to the fact that most imperial factions are their best selling ranges

despte his reasons, I still like the primarchs returning if only cause they give off this feeling of an old man returning from retirement to show the young bloods how its done. the war history lover in me yearns to see the old coming back, just because something's new doesn't mean its better.

Look. If you really buy 100% into the grim dark and that’s what you like about the setting then I can see why you don’t want the primarchs back. But I’ve always hated the grim dark. I hate the inquisition. I hate the ecclesiarchy. I hate the irony of the golden throne. I enjoy the primarchs coming back not necessarily because of how OP they are, but because even though they’re supposed to be so far beyond regular mortals, I feel like they’re the only people in the setting I can actually relate too, since they’re the only ones who remember what the imperial truth was supposed to be, and they were the only ones even capable of conceptualizing solutions to the problem instead of just maintaining the status quo

I hope sanguinius returns. It'll make imperium secundus 2.0 to the benefit of everyone.

It is hard to eat them and absorb their essence into the hivemind. So no, they are not good. Except Gorrilaman, he is dope.

Isn't the Invaders chapter still canon? If so then the imperium doesn't need primarchs to come back. Because space marine BS will wipe out the other craftworlds.

My personal hope is that Ghaz banishing Angron over and over again will make him reach Krork status and finally become a credible threat. 😎

To stop people from worrying about the Imperium becoming too powerful with the return of the Primarchs, just make all the other factions stronger. Give the Eldar their Death God and Phoenix Lord, turn Ghazkul into a Krork, bring the full force of the Tyranids, and have the Necrons fully awaken. Maybe even spice up things like bringing in a random C'tan, have an old one return and unleash the horrors of the Ghoul Stars. Just make Warhammer40k crazier than it already is.

I personally think the Pheonix lords should be primarch equals 🤷🏽‍♂️🤷🏽‍♂️🤷🏽‍♂️

It would cause a lot of rage but imagine Primarchs returning but as allies to Xenos. Clone Fulgrim going on missions with Trazyn sounds like a buddy movie, Vulkan was found and consume by Tyranids so now the Imperium has to deal with an immortal hive, Rogal finding a League of Votann and sees them as the better option for humanity, and Jaghatai serving the Laughing God

Boss if you want to play 40k just get tabletop Simulator it's on Only 20 bucks and my orks will show your sisters of battle a proper fight

So the real solution is buff the shit out the other factions so that Imperium and Chaos with returned primarks dont stomp the other factions. Eldar can get a massive buff when Ynead(however its spelled) is "born". Orks can get some Krorks. How? They believed they could hard enough. Tau... fuck the Tau. Tyranids can easily just get new stronger forms. Have them steal Primark geneseed.

Personally, I’m not opposed to them returning. Sure, will it result in there being a promarch every game? Probably. Is it cool? Also yes. Also, I *want* humanity to win.

I think the best thing they could have done to explore what other characters are doing rather than concentrating on the Primarchs themselves, is just have their presence felt. Have it that in those books the characters are actively working on behalf of one Primarch, or foiling the actions of another Primarch, or both. They are not seen but their presence is felt, and the individual stories could tie together into a big series where at the major climating books the Primarch DOES appear. Its also, as a side note, precisely how I think LucasFilm SHOULD (and probably WON'T) write Thrawn in their Live action shows.