Two more methods for GCC users: - With Y and X as jump = Y +/-> A -> X - With B and X as jump = B +/-> A -> X I know that the L trigger can be tricky for this tech, but these methods has been tested successfully by multiple GCC users.
It's the year 20XX, Smash Pros have mastered IDJ and almost every character except little mac have touch of death combos. SDI has become so meta that people are going back to Smash 4 to finally have a chance of beating Bayonetta
Byleths nair is actually, in the opinion of the bylethcord lab team, superior to palutenas nair. And it has a far more complexity free. It being better is definitely debatable, but theres no question that byleths nair has quite the diverse combo tree in comparison to palus nair-nair-nair-upair rinse and repeat. This video only scratches the surface.
@@AbeDorf18 but palus nair to nair to nair to nair is all she needs lol your fuming if u think byleths nair is better lol.Palus has a better hitbox and is more disjointed and its hitbox is more active and is better in calling out jump and edguarding
Well I think byleth has a better nair but Palutena is a better character and because of her speed she ends up getting more reward with her nair compared to byleth’s nair
Ryan Hendricks I always said (even back when I maimed Palu), that Byleth's nair if optimized was better than Palu's because of its sending angle for edge guarding, complex nature giving you way more versatility, and insane drag down shenanigans, and if IDJ is mastered, that will definitely ring true.
The sheer amount of work dedicated to making this video, deserves a hell of a lot more views than what you have now. Especially considering how actually useful this can be.
This seems pretty difficult but probably meta-changing for Pro players. Some of these combos are honestly mind-blowing with how much they could shake up certain matchups. Really well put together video and really impressive tech with a ton of potential.
@@moisteist8166 for the people who say they've been doing this, most of them dont do a frame perfect idj which is what is so insane about whats shown in the vid
I love how the demonstrations make the represented characters look godlike (except for that one Pit clip that could've been something hype if Nair worked better).
I really like seeing this game evolve to become even greater, instead of people using the new mechanics to just play more passive and boring (I see this plenty, online). And just when we thought Peach doing an instant 60-70% was impressive, apparently a lot of other characters can optimize their own combos to great extends. And as to the whole thing, this is lovely. I'm glad there's extra technical skill to work on, and one that's actually very useful. One of the first things that came to mind when seeing this, was with Corrin's FH Fair. They could really expand on their combos as early as 20% back in Smash 4, and it's great to see it back. I want to see how far I can push this as a Zelda and Byleth main...
@@sonpham3438 kinda weird, i just started doing it when watching void trying to extend a sheik ftilt fair dair dragdown chain to higher percents, he said, "maybe with a double jump", he tried it once, nearly got it but stopped trying. I went try it and realized with a pretty quick dj, which did have kind of a tight timing, it could actually extend her dragdown combos, filling the early-mid percents so you could get 0-stupid high percents from most combo starters. This was over half a year ago, pre quarantine times. Its so strage that a big labber like void knew about it but noone thought itd be useful when being a combo tool it obviously is lol...
Dear god, I think I just had a vision of the apocalypse. STELLAR job at labbing this out, and making this video so comprehensible. I plan on hitting the lab today.
@@Magic0YT he's a fun character, don't get me wrong, but having combos drop because you're playing someone who knows the DI, and escape options feels incredibly bad. he needs more guaranteed combo routes to be anywhere near as good as in Melee or PM. i just wish Nintendo would actually fix UAir, because rn the move is barley acceptable.
Idk about that, I guess all falcon mains would like to have more easy kill setups but is just how it goes. some characters will get patches and some others will not even be touched. Is just the way it goes
this is only the beginning of smash ultimate I cant imagine when everything is settle and no patches are over, the real grind and competitive will be brutal
because quarantine took over, but for real it is not a game where you can abuse or exploit cancel or with no endlag animations all the time. And still techs are being found regardless.
regarding the "Claw Grip" you can do IDJ like the first 2 examples without the need of attack canceling. Slightly harder to do, but once you get it down on muscle memory, it's easy to do.
Yeah, that is true, it might’ve sounded like I was limiting claw grip to the 3rd method.. afff should’ve mentioned it 😅 thanks for pointing it out though.
Another 2 methods for GCC users that I personally found easier than the ones mentioned by Snasen: You need to set Z to jump for this one, and use Z+/->A->Y/X. if you want to do it super easy, Z+/->A->L. The advantage of this control scheme is that you are not required to hit jump and attack with 1 finger/thumb. Super useful for those with smaller/thinner fingers. I also think having 1 finger for each input makes timing the inputs easier and less strenuous on your fingers. Personally, I am very used to Z jump, so sliding my finger off it is very natural (almost like try to do a short hop). The way I would practice this if you are unfamiliar with Z jump is to try short-hopping with it (to understand the jump timing and release for the IDJ input). Then add your other jump button (X/Y/L) right after the short hop input. If you are able to get the IDJ, congrats! You can now add an attack and try doing it in neutral. For doing it out of attacks, it depends on the move FAF you are doing it out of (if you want to try hit confirming into IDJ, use a move with high hitlag/hitstop so it is slightly easier to react). Note: Using L makes it very consistent and easy, since it is simply a timing execution. Using L also allows you to use the C stick IDJ without tap jump! Very useful, but your shield and grab will need to be remapped (I would recommend moving shield to X/Y since it will be on an face button and not a trigger, which will slightly increases non-buffered inputs for shield). Hope this helped, to those having difficulty. I can now IDJ consistently (about 8 out of 10 times last night, and it took half an hour to get used to the timing). Good luck and have fun optimizing your combos!
holy cow watching this really makes me realize how cucked out we got with instant short hop aerials, if only we could disable it at least then instead of learning this new input we could just you know press jump and A
Elliot Johns am i missing something? That would just be a buffered fullhop aerial which would be useful in its own right for sure, but that wouldnt input an IDJ aerial.
@@AbeDorf18 The Whole point of this is that you can start an aerial 1 frame sooner since you can buffer it. Everything else would be the same if they didn’t have the shorthop macro, except for losing dj
You deserve some kind of award for this video. I'm only 3:30 in and the overall quality is phenomenal. The green screen with both game cube and pro controller demonstrations, clear and concise delivery on the voice over/narration, in game demonstrations, on screen button inputs added in post... I don't even know if I'll like any of your other videos but based off from only 10% of this video I've liked and favorited it, and subscribed to your channel. Goddamn man.
Best tech video for Ultimate I have seen! :) I used to use IDJs a good amount when I was using tap jump, but now it's too hard without it. glad to see I can still use IDJ after all!
Took a long break from Ultimate, but I'm diving back in now that I can better appreciate this game for what it is. With the final character (& likely final patch) incoming, I wanna explore all the advanced tech this game has to offer, and this vid is a great resource as a part of that process. Sincerely, thank you very much for putting this together.
Dude people ain’t mentioning how goddamn disgusting Palu looks with this. She gets new combos AND she gets down throw bair back? She didn’t need this lmao
Quite a few characters discords discovered this a while ago but were limiting this ability to 1 or 2 specific situations. Glad to see someone finally make a fully in depth tutorial that spans across all characters. This is big for the punish and combo game in smash. Melee style punishes are just on the horizon! Great work!
THIS TECH IS REVOLUTIONARY!!! Omg im so excited to master this. i wonder how long it took u to make this video and how long it took to master this urself!?
Been practicing this and found it easier to input (jump) -> (delay) -> (A + jump)*still lets you IDJ for some reason* any accidental short-hop aerials rarely happen with this method hope this helps anyone!
I haven’t been interested in much of smash tech since smash 4, but this is so well done I enjoyed watching the whole video! Thanks for making it, sick combos btw
Just a little tip for those who have a hard time with going from pressing jump to attack and jump, it's better to jump -> jump again-> then attack since if you do that, then you can pull it off easier Basically Y/X(tap to short hop)->L/R(press for full hop)->A/C-stick (input any attack) This works for me since with young link, down tilt at 120% to 140% can lead to a double full hop dair
@@moisteist8166 Yeah I did it with sheik up airs but didn't know what I was doing or why I got way worse at it when I turned off tap jump. Good vid still.
OK I'm at 15:54 mins in and this is already a masterpiece.... smash ultimate has a lot to show in 2020/09.... and never end. thx Snasen, really really... well done!
Magic 0 that statement is incorrect. It could be true in a couple of years, but as of right now, melee has way more advanced tech and mixups than ultimate.
@@Snowballsage is not incorrect cus is my opinion, if you dont like my pov you dont have to follow me lol. I played melee for more than 10 years and I never said ult has more advanced tech and mixups. read carefully
I needed this. Ryu can't do up-air strings on Pokemon Stadium 2 because his full-hop doesn't even make him go above the platforms. For this I've always wished PS1 was the legal stage. But now it doesn't even matter
@@sigurdtheblue Ryu's full hop can reach the small battlefield platforms But for Yoshi's island, Yoshi's story and Pokemon Stadium 2 ryu has to double jump to reach the platforms Which messes up the up air strings unless he instant double jumps
Time to Tango! Harmony Her aerials hitboxes come out surprisingly late and she has really high jumps so the only character I can think of that rising nair out of shield would work on would be rosa Instant double jump increases the hit box size of rising aerials which allows bayo to actually land them on characters who have just landed and are in lag. So it’s a reliable out of Shield option to have if you are able to input idj reliably
i think outside of kill confirms, its not a great trick to use in neutral for bayo, since you lose 2 witch twists. That said, it definitely makes uptilt into bair a more likely 100% kill confirm.
@@dasuberpanda yeah it just makes certain things for her more consistent though she doesn’t benefit as much as some other characters like Falcon and sheik
For those having trouble. The first jump needs to be a short hop in order for it to work. That's why it's easier to do with 'x' and 'y'. It can actually be done slow at first and then done within the 4 fps after some practice.
I learnt how to do this semi consistently after 5 minutes because of the change I made to the button layout: if you set L bumper to attack and x and y to jump, slide your fingers over Y and X really fast while pressing L with your left hand just before your right hand presses X.
For those having trouble with this, I think ZL works better than L because you can kinda slip your finds off the ridge on the back of the trigger really quickly making it easier to get the timing right.
Jeez the standard between people that can do this tech and those that can't is going to be like melee and wavedashers. This does significant speed up the game, tournaments are going to get much tastier now!
Lol I just realized I’ve been doing this for a few months now (accidentally discovered it because I use tap jump and the shoulder button for jump). I only ever really used it for throw combos to make them easier, but now I see the possibilities...
So, I've been playing around with this, and it looks super helpful for Little Mac! Doing this gets him onto the Smashville and Kalos platforms MUCH more efficiently than before! I doubt it will cause a huge revolution for the character by itself, but every extra tool he has to deal with platform camping helps!
This looks like it might be a bit of a help for Little Mac when fighting someone camping a platform. Though it would also be pretty high-risk. Who knows. Maybe I'll need to lab it.
@@rouge-ish324 As a matter of fact, it does! I tested it and it gets Mac to the Smashville and Kalos platforms! No idea how much this will change things, but it certainly feels like a HUGE help to Mac.
Instant double jump is actually super easy if you primarily use Tap jump. Just press up on the stick and x at pretty much the same time and there you go. I also put IDJ in my tap jump video too, it's super good.
