I enjoy his thoughts on all these, too, but it would be nice, if he knew the stats of abilities better. He missed the armor and health of Avatar and the mana cost of Big Bad Voodoo. It's hard to take this list seriously, if he doesn't know all the data for his judgement.
It sort of reminds me of what happened with Lexiav, a somewhat well known Heroes of Might and Magic 3 player. I adore these tier lists on my beloved old games. Really fills me with a sense of nostalgia, and it makes me want to play them again! And I really hope that Grubby will go crazy with the tier lists to the level that Lexi did. Both WC3 and HoMM3 are very complex games, so there's certainly a possibility for that. Heck, Grubby could even make tier lists about community created stuff. Like, how good some custom races, units, items and heroes would be, from campaigns like Curse of the Forsaken, Shadows of Hatred, Malfurion's Quest, etc, etc... I'd also be really interested to hear about the potential power that DotA Allstars heroes would have within melee maps (of course, with them having a max level of 10, and the normal 3-3-3-1 skill point setup of basegame Warcraft heroes). There's just a lot of all-around potential here. I don't care that tier lists are regarded as "low effort content", they're still so fricking fun!
Loved the campaign and all the scenario maps. Hated the pvp tho. But 10 years after the fact I got into watching it. Plays completely differently than what I did back in the day 😅 Was playing it with my StarCraft mentality and always maxed out and built tons of turrets. Every game was a stalemate cause no one had units left and only towers 😆 Earthquake was actually a pretty good ability in that meta.
Death and Decay icon has a rose because it has roses in Warcraft 2 too, although is the "living things decaying" concept is clearer on the Warcraft 2 icon, it shows three withered roses.
Doom Guard summoned by Pit Lord CANNOT be dispelled. Only the one summoned by the loot item is dispellable. Also the unit being doomed CANNOT get onto a zeppelin
22:32 OOOFF The moment you mentioned Westwood Studios, I legitimately had a quick surge of nostalgia then immediately followed by a strong gut punch and groin kick. That jab at them kinda hurt ngl
@@HellecticMojo it's strange because the newer icons in wow just dont do it for me. They're almost too bright and glossy or something, I'm not sure. Subtle but pleasant art design by early blizzard
@@montanac223344 it's far more saturated. The primary colors got used up so things needed to get brighter and more specific, which in turn makes it less universal
Dreadlord got Inferno about the early second half of beta (sometime in 2001). Dreadlord used to have the ultimate "Dark Summoning" which was the opposite of mass teleport: it would summon allied units to the dreadlord. It was exactly like the starcraft arbiter's recall ability.
GRUBBY PLEASE. This kind of content brings me tranquility irl. I love hearing you theorycraft. Please, continue with the tierlists. Rank units. Rank items. Rank races. Thanks.
One thing about resurrection: it allows humans to go above the 100 food cap. Be at 100, kill 6 of your knights, queue up 24 more food worth of units, resurrect the knights. Now, you're going to be charging into a battle with 124 food of army. Considering that players might have 20 food of workers, you're talking about 104 food vs. 80 food worth of units. That is...*substantial*. Granted, this is more an application in FFA when resources run high, but considering FFA is 1v1v1v1... And as for mass teleport, again, absolute S tier in FFA--perhaps S+ tier in FFA...you mass a bunch of towers, and then you just STOP engaging the opponent in handshake battles--you JUST mass teleport them, and force them to either constantly burn 350 gold town portals (not sustainable), or chase you into a bunch of towers (not advisable). Though in 1v1, it's more the case that if you only have a couple of bases and much more limited resources, your opponent can just smash *you* in the face instead.
A favorite play of mine back in the day was to slip in an Invisible-casted unit into the enemy base, mass teleport my army in to destroy all the infrastructure, then use the ridiculously short cooldown to just mass teleport out once the opponent's army comes back.
@@catalyst772 If i recall, the original logic was that the units are invincible at the expense of having timed life, but people ended up using the spell for extremely cheeky plays that abused the invulnerability so now the raised units are vulnerable, but now Animate Dead's main appeal is its versatility (raising boss creeps and useful enemy spellcasters).
@@joshuakim5240 Yeah i think i can see the logic, Animate Dead is different kind of necromancy that it makes attacking resurrected useless because they keep getting resurrected in logic. Maybe Blizzard can buff it to give them higher HP regen and/or stats instead ??
@@joshuakim5240 Incorrect. Animated units lost invulnerability not because it was good, but because it was bad. You don't want temporary units to be invincible because they can't soak up damage for your permanent units.
This list reminds me of some of the cool old custom maps for WC3 that had hero builder stuffs where one could pick any skills they'd like before the match started. I think the main ones were usually called "angel arena" or other variations of "arena" etc. Bash, evasion, crit strike were usually top picks, those maps almost always had tons of stat boosting from items or insane exp gain. Imagine thousands of points of each stat. They ended up looking like DBZ fights not too long after the matches started. XD
Tornado having such a high mana cost directly negates the usefullness of mana shield, it's the only ability I've seen you use where it just felt straight up disappointing. Voodoo being a close second because like you said before, it basically tells the opponent what decision they need to immdiately make.
Grubby in all honesty I've always hated tier list type content, but your stuff is just so enjoyable I might have to reconsider my approach. Cheers man!
Starfall one of the most iconic ult from WC3, as a player who played mostly 2v2 or 3v3 this ability can win you a game (or lose if you are against PotM)
The best birthday gift is the original War 3 TFT disk (as opposed to reforged, so one could still play a game that was actually good) with Grubby's autograph. Well, the best if Maserati is off the table.
same here... played in 2004-2006 from time to time. Now due watching your videos started again and already tried some PVP... I am much to slow and much to old to compete... But also loosing means a lot of fun.
Got straight up called out, used to play ladder for hours every day back in the 2000s... no idea why this video was suggested, but this was one hell of a nostalgia hit! The commentary on Inferno cracked me up too :D
I would say Big Bad Voodoo is the D tier ultimate. It's making the unit you want to protect the most into a target. It requires you to position extremely well to get even an ounce of use out of it, as your opponent can either just move away or interrupt the Shadow Hunter instantly without committing anything (Starfall will at least get a bit of damage in). The only reason you never feel how bad it really is, is because you're almost always in a winning position when your secondary hero gets his ultimate, and so you can usually afford to pick it. But if you are Shadow Hunter first/solo, it legitimately is better to just get another point in Serpent Ward/Healing Wave. Even a level 1 Healing Wave has more impact than an instantly interrupted Big Bad Voodoo. If Orc heroes weren't so strong and buffing the Shadow Hunter by any metric would mean making them even stronger, then I would give Big Bad Voodoo the Tranquility treatment and just slash the Mana Cost and Cooldown to 125/60 from 200/180. But the Shadow Hunter suffers from having all good skills, where getting a level +7 Shadow Hunter actually makes a huge difference while other heroes all get an irrelevant skill (like what's the substantial difference between a level 10 Lich with Dark Ritual and a level 6 Lich with a Mana Potion).
Is this a crazy thought? What if all WC3 heros had an option of 4 ults to choose from. Either the ult that we all know and love that already exists or a 4th and ultimate level of one of their 3 existing abilities, once the choice is made it is perminant and of course the player can only choose to make a 4th level of the ult that they already chose it to be level 3 when their hero turned level 5. So for example with far seer if you decided to go level 3 wolves at level 5 hero, when your hero turns level 6, you could choose level 4 wolves that will have say 750 HP each 90 sec life span, 30-35 attack 400 movement speed (if this is chosen it cannot be undone with any item and earthquake cannot be chosen). Of course if the player decided to go level 3 chain lightning they would then have the choice to go level 4 with similar devistating ulttimate increases. I think this would add a cool eliment to the game.
11:00 remeber an insane game, from Moon vs Tod. Moon picked Dark Ranger as first and only hero and has stolen a worker from Tod, in the end he destroyed him with bears, dryads, blood and arch mage. That was so sick to watch. I really felt sorry for Tod, but Moons Gameplay was so good.
Very accurate - I used to play in the early 2000s. Haven't played since, but still enjoy these videos. It's actually making me consider playing again. Which version should I get? The original, or Reforged?
For my birthday I want more Grubby tier lists !! They are fun and informative. The hero death one is hilarious, I’m only halfway thru cause I only watch it in the evening after a few beers!!
11:20: Steal a human worker, create human base as elf, create AM und BM as 2nd and 3rd heros and crush your Human opponent on Twisted Meadow. S-Tier Spell which enabled one of the most epic games I ever saw ;-)
In 1v1 it is too hard to pull it's out. Not because the task to do that is nigh but 1v1 is mostly finished earlier than We would expect to prolong the match.
Haven't played Warcraft 3 for years, since my "friend" borrowed out my TFT copy to someone else and I never got it back. Used to be one of my favourite games back then, I played a lot of user settings maps, normal matches intimidated me, haha. But I love the algorhythm recommending your videos, I remember you playing SC2 back in the day, so it's nice to see you again! Also, I'd love Mass Teleport/Town Portal for birthday. Commuting sucks!
What I like about Tornado is that it sort of shows how channeled spells should have worked, every channeled spell should let you control the spell while your hero is occupied. Especially with Big Bad Voodoo... maybe you could designate a 'dancer' other than the Shadow Hunter (with whom it starts) that is 'vulnerable' and if it is killed the spell ends, so you micro the 'dancer' (de)buff/designation around to keep it going. Basically enable a mini-game for channeling heroes.
@@HellecticMojo I quit SC2 to play Supreme Commander (FAF) until AoE4 came out and I am definitely not defending SC2 units. I would ask you to consider that SC2 showed the gaming world that splash damage easily dominates the meta and they didn't care. HotS and LotV unit design are a product of not addressing the real issue before you add new units. This is unlike the creators of WC3 who capped splash damage, yeah... Disruptors are simply an attempt to add unit diversity without nerfing splash as a whole.
oh man you should have showed that clip when you got the doomguard in the tourney. misclicked that hero and at the end in a desperate battle wounded casted the doomguard stomp surrounded his hero to finish the game. One of the best tourney games i've ever seen!!!
Its really funny seeing your reasoning and explaination on these lol My 2 personal strongest ultimates are for sure Starfall and Volcano. I never played this game at a super highly competitive level though. But from the competitive I did play a million years ago and against friends starfall and volcano were so insane if you rushed the base aggressively.
Tier lists are quite fun. Both Grubby and Wanderbraun, the Warcraft 3 content creators I watch, are doing warcraft tier lists, so I'd like to compare them soon. Thank you for making such videos, Grubby ❤
@@maosama3695 That means that shes an one person army with a spellshield, giving the circustances of not having strong crowd control, and strong still on the contrary
What would I want for my birthday? I think ressurection from Paladin is probably hard to pass. To see my grandma again :3. But I guess it only works on fresh corpses...
13:50 my sides LOL. Out of nowhere YT recommend, I remember watching you and Moon constantly back in the mid 2000s, I always tuned into your matches even though I was way more into SCBW at the time. Good to see you still doing well and making content!
Hi Grubby, I'm the exact type of person you mentioned early in the video - just got back to Warcraft 3 after almost 20 years 😂 thank to your vids I find it much easier to tune up to all these changes. I'm super excited that the game lives on and people like you make so much fantastic content about it. Thank you! 🙏
Those people that used to play WC3 looong ago and now get your videos - that's me bro. I love the content, making me fall in love with WC3 again, considering downloading it somewhere and playing a bit.
3:52 =Yup, thats me right there. and yes i dint know they changed that spell. thanks for the info, but blizzard will never see 1 dime out of me ever again. most likely il download pirate version of the old game and play it someday when the nostalgia kicks in.
I loved how in RoC it was all about power creeping to get the ultimate and the meta was more or less mass spell casters. I think it was a massive improvement to cap heroes to level 5 with creeping and introducing anti spell casting units to each race (some better some worse) it made the games much more engaging and allowed for a greater variety of strategies. Once TfT came out I could never bring myself to play RoC instead.
3:56 this is me with your channel ingeneral. I've not touch warcraft since 2010 (dota 1 since 2012) and I watch your content just because 'hummm this is interesting'
As a 2004 player who has never played competitively and been out of the game since 2008 or so... I tried making a tierlist before watching the video, and got a surprising amount of answers similar to this video. I don't know if I underestimated/overestimated some abilities, or the nerfs and buffs over the years have changed the skills that much, but you put some skills I didn't use at all in a high tier, and some that I always used in a low tier. Here's the list: S - Inferno A - Avatar, Voodoo, Death and Decay, Phoenix, Teleport, Metamorphosis, Ressurection, Bladestorm, Reincarnation B - Doom, Swarm, Robo-Goblin, Avatar, Stampete, Tranquility C - Animate dead, Charm, Starfall, Transmute, Volcano D - Earthquake, StormEarthFire, Tornado
Shoutout to your shoutout to the icons. For me, art direction makes a good 75% of appeal of Warcraft games, and the icons are its essense. I literally love them and unironically think bringing those to WoW was a major factor contributing to its success.
the irony where grubby throws on hat of a life or spiritual coach talks about the deep rose analogy. Then he proceeds to talk about doom next. Nice work grubby. I love your content for the unintended LoL.
Since you asked Grubby, I always wanted to go back to playing Wc3. I played it before when I was around 10, but it was just pirated by the cafe lmao, and it's my birthday on the 20s next month. An official copy would be awesome. ❤
Tinker's ult is actually really nice, since it only requires 25 mana to give you magic immunity. If you gave Avatar at an A tier, then it definitely deserves in A tier as well.
4:20 thats me. ;) grew up with starcraft broodwar and wc3 enjoyed to play the game and watch pros ofc and one of them was Grubby. So here i am enjoying some old memorys. edit: As a now dh player i enjoyed the metamorphus comments a lot. Counterplay: Leave the game and save some time or make him use it where you can run away for 45secs. :D
Huge advantage of traquility are that you can use it ouside of battle and even if you do not have army you do have heroes in most cases to heal. Both charm and transmute are really often useless in late game cause you hit this lvl6 at moment that both armies had died and there is just tripple heroes from both sides left with no gold.
Resurrection can be use outside of combat. Like this: - get to 100/100 army, while having 6 or more knights - kill 6 of your knights - immediately train units to get again to 100/100 - ressurect your 6 dead knights - 124/100 aka 24%+ bigger army than your opponent, easy S tier ultimate
Resurrection's problem is that it's (essentially) a heal based on number of dead units. You're always going to compare it to how much healing he could do otherwise. IMO the best way to counter this is to A. Reduce the mana cost, cooldown, and # of units it rezzes (probably down to 3, so reduce mana by half and cooldown appropriately) or give it a passive that works within its aura range. (I think immunity to guaranteed-kill effects or charms would be pretty good.) I was thinking that Rez could have charges (2-3) where instant-kill/charm effects are negated while there's a charge, or he can Rez a dead unit while there is a charge.
3:50 we still have an old 1.29 warcraft client we use for lan play so this is all literally just "huh this is interesting, so this is what it does now" for me. love it all the same though
i'd make earthquake more exponential in total damage output, like instead of 60dps for 20 seconds make it 8-9 seconds channel with inceasing the damage per second by 30 each second, starting with 30 30, 60, 90, 120, 150, 180, 210, 240, (270) = 1080 (1350) total damage. and i'd make bladestorm 65 mana with 3sec duration and 40 second cooldown (and probably reduce damage to 80dps so it cannot utterly destroy worker lines that easy)
"That was actually the only preparation I did for making this video, besides dedicating my whole life to Warcraft 3" 😂😂😂 came for the commentary on a game that's old enough to play taxes stayed for the comedy that has no right being this good
I do a longer pause by watching ur videos on yt and now i awake for w3 and watching ur content again. Good to know some new changes . Thx for this great list.
It is a great pleasure to hear somebody knowledgeable as Grubby speaking with modesty of complex questions...
4 месяца назад
The way the tier list looks just tell you how much care and polish Blizzard invested in WC3 from the beginning till today ... mind blowing. Games today are made for milking customer's money, games before were made out of passion, it was an art on multiple levels.
I would've 100% expected Mass Teleport to be S. The option of teleporting your army around a town hall and blowing it up is sick. It doesn't directly help with the main army of enemy, true. But it can make the enemy scared to move at all.
What i would really like to see, if *you* would like to see any significant changes to hero ultimates to make them a safe pick for level 6. For example (coming from playing alot Diablo 3 in the past) i played the Witchdoctor alot and he has an ability that also is called "Big bad Voodoo", its a small stack of fetishes that buffs the player depending on the rune he has chosen, aslong he´s in the circle. ATK/Movement speed, Mana/healthregen, Armor etc. I could imagine something similar for the Shadowhunter, as the Witchdoctors in WC3 do actually have their totems; Healing and Stun. So why not give the Shadowhunter an actual Voodoo Totem who does similar things as in D3? Or maybe it hexes 3 random enemy Units over 6 second duration. Also maybe the Community might have good ideas, how some Ultimate Abilitys can be revamped and be "more useful" Cheers and thanks for the Video =)
