the reason it was Jason in the 90s show was because Kingsley wasn't revealed as the hobgoblin yet and Jason was the last/main hobgoblin fake out at the time, Kingsley being revealed as the true hobgoblin didn't happen till 1997
Hobgoblin is such a great villain and is really awesome and him fighting Spider-Man was always so cool, heck he was also the main villain of spidergirl mayday Parker my girl which was really awesome and badass in my opinion
and since they already wasted green goblin (well not wasted but already used the rami version of green goblin instead of a new version) they can use Hob Goblin for important Green Goblin stories
At the risk of sounding like an absolute know-it-all dork,his name was Jason Macendale in the '90s cartoon because that was the name of the guy who was the active Hobgoblin at that time. You made reference to both Flash Thompson and Ned Leeds having been brainwashed into believing that they actually WERE the Hobgoblin at certain points. What you may not be aware of is the fact that Flash Thompson was thrown out there by the writers at the time as an intentional way to misdirect the audience,but Ned Leeds was actually intended to be the answer to the question of Hobgoblin's identity when he was first revealed. But he was immediately killed off after this reveal,and Jason Macendale (originally the first character to dawn the supervillain identity of Jack-O-Lantern) eventually became the second Hobgoblin. The original Hobgoblin's identity was later retconned into being Roderick Kingsley,and part of that retcon was that he'd brainwashed Ned Leeds into actually believing he was the real Hobgoblin. It was easy enough to sell that change, since it had been previously established that it happened to another character already. Kingsley WAS introduced right around the time Hobgoblin first appeared,and that's not a coincidence. The writer at that time had always intended for Kingsley to eventually be revealed as the Hobgoblin,but he quit writing for Spider-Man (as well as quitting working for Marvel altogether) before that could happen. But many years later,he returned to Marvel as writer for the various Spider-Man titles again,and so he seized his opportunity to retcon the lore surrounding the secret identity of the character that he'd created so it would be in line with his original intent. ...crazy,right!? Sorry this is so long! Such a mess of a story required a mess of an explanation too,I guess.
Wow I am so happy you dropped this knowledge on me. I wish I had known this prior to the video because this is so freaking interesting I would’ve loved to discuss this in a long form. I really appreciate this man!
@@spidermania I'm glad that you got something out of all that,man! I get precious little mileage out of knowing any of this kind of stuff,so even if this is the one and only time I'll ever be able to apply any of this knowledge in a situation,it hasn't all been for nothing. That's a genuinely comforting thought at this point in my life. So that's awesome cuz the takeaway for me from this is that everyone wins! This has been beneficial to all involved parties in one capacity or another. 🥳 🤘 🫡
I was scrolling through the comments to see if anyone else wrote this so I didn’t have too lol. Though I will say Ned Leeds was killed before he was revealed as the Hobgoblin, or at least the comic where he was killed was released before the issue where it was revealed came out like a month prior. Apparently it was the writer/editor sticking it to the current Spidey writer at the time. That’s the Hobgoblin in a nutshell though, editorial disputes messing up an otherwise excellent story. I actually still like how it turned out as it makes Kingsley more ruthless, but it did make the story messy.
@@jameskingman1227 I wasn't aware of that aspect of this whole debacle. I doubt that there are many people who have read every last issue that relates to all of this,and I'm by no means one of them. IF such an exclusive group even exists. I'm sure that SOMEONE has. All I know is that I read an interview with the guy who created Hobgoblin as a character (was it Dave Michelini?) and he mentioned how Ned Leeds was killed off out of costume (and completely off-panel,I THINK) by...was it like a bunch of thugs showing up at his house or something like that? He was talking about how he was able to retcon Roderick Kingsley into having been Hobgoblin's alter ego as per his original intent,and how everything lined up so well in order for that to happen without breaking established lore that it ALMOST seemed somewhat intentional. His central point about the death of Ned Leeds being that if he'd truly been the original Hobgoblin,he should've had superhuman strength granted to him by Norman Osborn's Goblin formula and been able to easily fight off the thugs that killed him. Avoiding these specifics was definitely a deliberate choice I made,because I'm too murky on the details. Wow....there really is a LOT to this topic,isn't there!? ...also,killing off Leeds at the EXACT same time as revealing him to be Hobgoblin's secret identity with no Green Goblin-esque final battle or with Spider-Man even being present at the time is SUPER anticlimactic. I hope the editor felt satisfactorily vindicated from all of this. I didn't know about THAT aspect of the behind the scenes drama either.
@@AshtonRogers-se1zj First of all I have to say I love talking about this stuff lol. So Hobgoblin was invented by Roger Stern, David Michelinie invented Venom (there’s also a story around that) and wrote Iron Man’s Alcohol abuse and invented Jim Rhodes. Roger Stern was basically falling out with his editors and left before he finished the Hobgoblin story, when asked who his secret identity was Roger basically said “it doesn’t matter, it’s your story now” and Tom Defalco went back and looked at all the suspects and deduced it was Ned Leeds. (This part I’m a little fuzzy on) but I think Roger was asked at a comic con panel if Ned Leeds was the Hobgoblin and he just kinda said yes. Ned was killed very randomly in the Spider-Man vs Wolverine crossover. He was basically tied to a chair and had his throat slit. It was a very minor part of the story other than the fact that Ned was a long-standing Spidey support character. The writer of the story was primarily an editor (he did a really good job on this story to be fair, it’s a real classic and should be checked out by any Spidey and Wolvy fan) and I think he had an issue with the current Spider-Man writer, he had asked who the Hobgoblin was and then wrote this into his story to mess with the flow of the Spidey comics. Spidey then finds out in his own series that the Kingpin had a file on Hobgoblin and because he had done Wilson a favour he gave Spidey the file and this revealed who he was. In the 90’s Roger Stern was asked to come back and finish his story, this is when he revealed that Hobby had a twin brother who impersonated Kingsley whenever they were both on panel, and that he used “the winkler machine” to brainwash any suspect to be the Hobgoblin, Roger Stern hard established this in his original run when he experimented on a random criminal the Goblin Forumla so he could get the Goblin strength without the madness. This criminal thought he was the Goblin for that issue, which was part of the experiment to see if his strength could handle the webhead. Stern also came back again to write a Norman Osborn vs Hobgoblin three parter. It all kinda established that Kingsley was the badass we all knew him as, not a guy that gets tied to a chair and has his throat slit by non powered people, which is also how Peter works out that Ned couldn’t have been the Goblin when he actually thought about it. Now I don’t know if I’ve read everything, but I always liked Hobgoblin as I’m a kid from the 90’s and found the comics really interesting. A few of the collections go into this which is where I learnt a lot of it. Hobgoblin does get messy after Roger Stern leaves the book, however he does bring it all back together. The sad thing is since the 80’s people always dismiss him as a secondary Goblin, when he was invented essentially to fill the void left by Norman Osborne’s death. Hope I didn’t drone on too much there lol.
Yes Roderick Kingsley deserves the recognition as there could have perfect opportunity to set him in the movies for the Raimiverse he could have moved into the Osborn Penthouse after Spider-Man 3, Amazing Spider-Man movies that he could have been the man in the shadow and mostly the MCU where I don’t want Ned to be Hobgoblin as the best friend being the villain has been done to death already in Spider-Man. I think they were taking influence from the Ultimate Spider-Man comics where Harry became Hobgoblin instead of green goblin as an Orange skinned monster and that was a missed opportunity in Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon after season 1 that Roderick tries to be the new CEO of Oscorp. But I wonder how he will appear in PS4 Spider-Man 3 as Norman hasn’t become the green goblin yet?
If hobgoblin appears in the mcu, he should heavily impact Peter's ptsd. A new goblin enemy resembling the gimmick of his aunt's murderer would absolutely cause Peter to snap or have fear. And when hobgoblin figures that out he plays it to his advantage. MCU Hobgoblin should be terrifying and scary for Peter. In comics, he wasnt much a personal enemy and more so just a mastermind. But a mastermind that can also get the hero to doubt himself cause the sight of him causes him to lose control? THAT would be the best way to adapt Hobby. Imagine if he takes advantage of this fear and drives the wound deeper by framing Ned just like in the comics. But not only is it to cover his tracks but to genuinely hurt Peter
All the major spireman cartoons have at least one member of spirman's more underrated rogues become household name. And for the 90s animated spider man, that is easily hob goblin.
@@mekiherring2088why? We already did Harry as the Goblin twice. Roderick Kingsley is the Hobgoblin, he should be the one behind the mask in the movies.
Much like Green Goblin, Hob Goblin's identity was supposed to be a mystery, but than something happen I can't remember correctly to be honest. I think Marvel Replaced the writer at the and the new one either made Hob Goblin Nes Leeds or Marvel wanted him to use Ned Leeds like that?
Hobgoblin is such an underrated character. You forgot to mention Roderick Kingsley's brief appearance in Spectacular Spider Man. Hobgoblin was supposed to appear in the third season of the show.
We got JUST enough of “Kingsley” that they nailed him. Calm and collected when faced with the Rhino, but whiny and jittery when confronted by Silver Sable. Tripped at the finish line!
@@my7th101 oh yeah I know. Just trying to hide Daniel in case people didn’t know that part of the mystery. It’s a shame that the show was cancelled. In comics, I’m not going to lie, the Hobgoblin mystery was a mess due to the politics and corporate meddling. While I love Kingsley in hindsight, he wasn’t even much of a suspect. I was looking forward to them streamlining and cleaning it up a bit.
wasn't it already obvious before lol In nwh he literally said 'i promise you I won't turn into a supervillain' and then both Tobey and Andrew looked at him with a sus face and then Jacob batalon posted a hobgoblin merch in Instagram (iirc) it's obvious, also green goblins glider and some of his other stuff were in the MCU, so yeah they can do a hobgoblin easily. Not sure how he'll become hobgoblin though.
@@brewmaster2912 Marvel literally said they don't wanna use the old plotlines again in MCU movies so I doubt they'd go with best friend becoming a goblin. I see them doing a Ned getting brainwashed thing tho.
Dude THANK YOU FOR HIGHLIGHTING MILES'S AMAZING RUN! Even if it's to talk about that *spectacular* fight between Miles and Kingsley in issue #9, thank you for bringing it up and highlighting it regardless. Because I don't see a lot (or anyone really) of people praising the Cody Ziglar run for anything it's done since it started. So I appreciate it so much as someone who's been reading it since day one! And in general great video, you got a sub from me my guy!
Also, like how we actually see the Hobgoblin improving in the original run. It's nice seeing an inexperienced villain work around a more experienced hero and actually succeed in the end.
Random aside: In the game for the first Raimi movie, Hobgoblin did, kinda, show up. It was either cheat code or a bonus mode, but you could play as Harry, and he had his own story. In place of Norman as Green Goblin (Because, you know, dead by that point), an unnamed guy is filling in for the role, and is basically Hobgoblin in everything but look and name.
Yeah as I feel Hobgoblin should get more attention and while I do have a soft spot for 2017 version, I would love more a great adaption of Hobgoblin again like in the classic 90s cartoon. Maybe if possible Hobgoblin could appear in the Insomniac Spidey series and since Miles will be the central Spider-Man in future games, he could work as Miles' biggest foe. What you think?
Well, when Mackindale was the Hobgoblin he literally activated Demon Mode... Yes, the guy wanted the Goblin serum so mutch that when he discovered that it was destroyed he made a deal with a Demon... And when I read that part my reaction was: "Why didn't I eard about this?! Why do people hide só mutch amazing stuff about the comics?!" Seriously When I started reading Spider-Man I thought I knew everything... But Ohhh Boy! How wrong I was. Seriously I really recomend reading ALL OF SPIDER-MAN! You can forget the team Ups, but read AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN, WEB OF SPIDER-MAN and SPIDER-MAN. The amount of bizarre and ridiculous things that happen really make the boring issues worth while. So yeah, go read it and have fun.
Personally I’ve always preferred Jason over Rodrick as the goblin. It’s a lot more believable that a seasoned mercenary would be able to put up a fight against Peter rather than some psychotic fashion designer. Not to mention his whole arc about wanted to gain superpowers so people take him seriously was pretty compelling plus the whole fiasco with Demogoblin was cool.
I like the Hobgoblin more then the Green Goblin, but there has been like 8 of them. Hell even Flash Thompson, Norman Osborn, Harry Osborn and Deadpool become Hobgoblin for a moment. The OG was a rich fashion empire guy by the name Roderick Kingsley, I can't remember totally why he become the Hobgoblin tho. He brainwashed or hired others to posse as Hobgoblin, most famously was Ned Leeds. Who he most recently brainwashed again into thinking he was the Hobgoblin while actually being brainwashed by the Goblin Queen himself. Kingsley also sells the costumes and their identities to other criminals. As great as Kingsley, Leeds and Urich are my all time favorite Hobgoblin was Jason Macendale. Unlike the others that were a fashion designer, reporter, rich kid, hired hood, and a butler Macendale is the real deal. He's an ex-Marine and CIA agent who become a mercenary. He's goal is power, and he was the OG Jack O'Lantern. He fought some guys to become the next Hobgoblin, took Kraven's Calypso Serum and even made a deal with a demon. His best run was during that time when he had demonic powers and was fighting it for control. Todd McFarlane even wrote some of this run, and you could really see his inspersion for Spawn bleeding into this character before he would leave to do Spawn. Sadly after he lost control of the demon, and it left him the character would start to become forgotten before dying. Even getting cybernetic enhancements didn't help. I really hope that one day he'll return from the dead, and he will become that badass demonic powered (but in full control) Hobgoblin again.
I think the main reason he hasn’t been adapted is because of his visual similarities to Green Goblin. They are different but the casual audience is just gonna complain that hes green goblin 2.0
Peter Parker was always depicted as a bit of an irritable incel type trying to do good, and that was ruined when they explicitly tried to mickeymouse him with the symbiote being the source of his... venomousness. They really should bring that back in to the MCU Peter Parker, but that's impossible because the incels will immediately nuke it for "being woke misandry, all men bad" if they try. Tom Holland Spider-Man could do the storyline of applying to Fantastic four, call quits for it being charity work, but end up as friends with Johnny Storm where eventually they come across the hatched plan to ruin Spider-Man's reputation through The Blaze. That wold be the 80's issue 103 of Spectacular Spider-Man. The Blaze would then be the starting point where a bunch of copy-cat criminals escalate The Blaze character into becoming Hobgoblin.
Why he gotta be an “incel”? Why not just a guy down on his luck with a massive chip on his shoulder and valid reasons to be angry? Why is every negative emotion is an extreme like “this guy’s and incel or edgelord.” He was unfairly picked on and lived in a cold apathetic world trying to keep him down with a small support system. Come on bruh. Comments like yours is why people who need help won’t speak up.
I wouldn't go as far as "incel", but I do wish there were more adaptations of Peter Parker that have him start off as an asshole. This isn't even a Disney thing, Toby's Spider-Man was also a sweet nerd with a good heart, when young Peter was an antisocial jerk who looked down at everyone.
I loooove Hobby, but Roderick Kingsley is just kind of -Eh! He’s cool and all, but he’s just kind of a blank. Like, what motivates him? I mean, he needs at least SOME fleshing out! Also, Harry was NOT killed at the time that the Hobgoblin first appeared! He just had amnesia and didn’t remember that he was The Green Goblin. Norman however, was VERY much dead!
My only points against Jim Carrey as Hobgoblin is he probably won't want the role. He disassociated himself with his role in the Kick Ass sequel and seems very anti guns anti violence so I'm not thinking playing a character as malicious as Hobgoblin would vibe with him. Plus anything Sony does just seems weird IMO
Apparently, if memory serves, Hobby gets far less use likely down to his comics use; Apparently the writers all had different ideas of who he should be behind the mask, they wound up going back and forth multiple times, before just being done with him, down to that bickering. That's sadly kinda hung over the character, and is likely why he's far less prominent compared to Green Goblin.
holdup havent finished but is dt.faust(from TASM i think thats his name)supposed th be hobby.also i thought he was a green goblin rip-off with no charicter.oh boy was i wrong.
Hear me out: I’d rather have an adaptation where Hobgoblin is the tech-based goblin and Green Goblin is the more ultimate monstrous character. You get both types of goblins with different motivations and personalities. Hobgoblin’s got the voice and pizazz but is otherwise a very masterfully manipulative crook, whereas Green Goblin’s got the power, the fear factor, and is straight up evil trying to destroy Peter’s life
Idk man. HobGoblin is kinda ehhh imo. Him pretending to be crazy as opposed to Green Goblin actually being crazy makes him kinda lame. Design-wise, I kinda prefer HobGoblin's design when he has the wings, flaming sword and sonic scream. Definitely makes him distinct from Green Goblin.
"Capitalism is the reason art suffers...AGAIN!" Dunk, I gotta ask...are you an anarchist? It's cool if you are, I am too, but you usually don't get comments like this from people who *aren't* class conscious.
