I have some insight from the Japanese that supports the point about Marika betraying Maliketh. The Japanese description where it says she betrayed him has a single-word difference that specifies the nature of her betrayal is indeed the sealing of destined death. It says she wanted/hoped of him to seal destined death, and then later, she betrayed not "him" but "that" - the sealing of destined death. マリケスは、神人に与えられる影従の獣であった マリカは影従に、運命の死の封印たるを望み 後にそれを裏切ったのだ The それ (sore - "it/that") near the end is the key here; it's the object of "betrayed," and it refers grammatically back 望み, i.e. to the desire (for sealing destined death). So yes, Marika had but one wish/desire for her shadow beast, and in the end she betrayed him specifically in the sense of the role she gave him. Another thing that supports Marika's plotting all this well in advance is Hewg's god-slaying weapon at the Round Table Hold. The Round Table is a place specifically meant for Tarnished who've returned to the Lands Between (i.e. her candidates for lordship, as covered in the video). She imprisons there, where the Tarnished will meet him and use his services, a blacksmith, and tasks him specifically with making a weapon that can kill a god. He made a promise (perhaps under duress, but nevertheless) directly to Marika to make this god-slaying weapon. And she's the only god around, really. This weapon is meant to slay "the demigods. And [their] god. Queen Marika herself wishes it so." And Roderika confirms it: "So slay her, with the weapons he smithed. Slay the god, Marika, who cursed us all." To sum it up, Marika herself very specifically set conditions up so that the Tarnished would have access to an element necessary to kill her. She engineered the entire course of events long in advance, from the stealing of Destined Death to the Night of the Black Knives, foresaw the demigods' failures to become lord or god, putting the Tarnished in reserve specifically so they could come back to the Lands Between and fill that void, wherein one would eventually slay her, brandish the Ring, and become Elden Lord over a new age.
FWIW, a common question regarding the Night is "Why Godwyn?" regardless of whether the asker thinks it was Ranni alone or Marika behind it. My answer has to do with her words to her children, foreseeing that they would fail and become sacrifices to the new Lord (i.e. bumps in the road as they collect great runes). I think it was Godwyn because he was the one who WOULD have in fact succeeded where the others all failed: He was the Golden prince, first in the lineage, first son of Elden Lord Godfrey; possibly the strongest of the demigods and a leader amongst them (defeated the dragons in defense of Leyndell); he was wise and just (befriended the dragons); he was beloved by his siblings (see Miquella's epitaph to him); he was firstborn of the demigods we currently know about (Messmer being a possible exception, but he was obviously out of favor by that point). If Godwyn had been alive when the Ring was shattered, he would have won the shattering war against his siblings - unless the war was averted entirely, by at least one sibling falling in line behind him and supporting his claim. Which is why he had to die, or the rest of Marika's plan following the NotBK and the Shattering of the Ring would not have worked.
@@fadedraven9523 I was never a big fan of the theory that Marika was behind TNOTBK, because imo it removes the nuance of a grieving and wrathful mother, who had her firstborn son murdered under the watch of the order that she had long sought to maintain, thus confirming all her doubts about it and subsequently "driving her to the brink". Nevertheless this video and your comment make it seem more likely. Marika certainly is a manipulator, so everything is possible.
@fadedraven9523 all this points to Marika simply wanting the Order to end. It seems to me that Ranni was meant to be the new Vessel and Godwyn the Elden Lord. Ranni didn't want this and worked with her to end herself and Godwyn and set Marika's long laid plans into motion. Like, if Godwyn was going to be the one to lead the new age, why wouldn't Marika just allow it? Presumably she would die after the Elden Ring passed on to Ranni, so why go through the trouble to be killed I the way that she does? The only thing that makes sense is she, after realizing her wrongs and the greater wills control over her fate, decided it was best to end its influence and the Ring's over The Lands Between.
I think that this isn't a correct way of framing the punishment/curse that Marika placed on Hewg. We don't really know Hewg's story prior to his imprisonment to the Roundtable, but taking into account how much the events surrounding the GEQ seem to have instilled a traumatic sense of mortality in Marika, and that following such events she removed the Rune of Death to make it impossible for her to be slain, effectively becoming "the Eternal" and founding the Golden Order at once, i can't help but see it as a "I'll curse you to be unable to do anything but attempt at something i made utterly impossible" kind of thing. It's possible that due to Hewg being a Misbegotten and an unrivaled blacksmith he might have aided someone in some kind of revolt against the Golden Order/Marika. Hell, he might have tried himself to wield such a weapon in order to put an end on the oppression of his kind. After all, in Castle Morne we witness a rebellion of this kind. Considering all of this, what better punishment could she bring onto him? Here we start to see a rather cruel picture, but we also notice a rather tragicomical dimension to it, because just like the curse she placed on the last Fire Giant is part of what makes it possible to us, the Tarnished, to become Elden Lord, the curse she placed on Hewg is what ultimately makes us able to "slay a God", herself
@@sandros1884 Gideon suggests that Marika was driven to the brink when Miquella was abducted, so I think he was also a part of the conspiracy to overthrow the Greater Will. I still hold to the opinion that Marika resented the Greater Will for making her abandon Morgott and Mohg, and worked with Ranni to initiate the Night of the Black Knives. And I think Radagon was implanted into Marika by the Greater Will to enforce her loyalty, or simply to take over, because it suspected her betrayal.
"Oh, Lord Godwyn... Such cruelty, such humiliation... My poor, sweet lordling should have died a true death. As the first of the demigods to die. As a martyr to Destined Death. But why must it yet bring such disgrace? A scion of the golden bough, sentenced to live in Death... How could such a thing come to be..." Whoever was behind the black knives, wanted Godwyn to die a true death, but got outwitted by Ranni. I think Marika or the fingers wanted him dead, but the his half death was completely unexpected.
These are words of a finger reader crone. I don't think you can attribute this to the person who orchestrated the night of the black knives. Interesting theory that I also believein general though. Ranni's betrayal was slaying herself at the same time as Godwyn, letting her escape her fingers and not allowing godwyn to die a true death.
"Indeed, I am the witch Ranni. I stole a fragment of the Rune of Death, and used it to forge the godslaying black knives through fearsome rite. I did it all." I think this dialogue is the main Reference between Ranni and the black knives, aside from some Rogier stuff that is needed for this dialogue. It does indeed leave open the possibility that Ranni slew(slaid?) herself in secret and the actual plot was to kill only Godwyn and kill him properly. "I did it all" also sounds perhaps a bit deceiving here. Maybe in the DLC expanding on the dual nature of shadow and gold will reveal the motivation for slaying Godwyn as well as giving clues on the culprit.
@@unuseablebI can see it. The Black Knives are Numen like Marika. Speculation: They act as her secret black ops, and when they find out about what happened and how they were betrayed they go after Ranni
@@unuseableb it is explained in-game why Godwyn needed to die a half death. The reason was so Ranni could also die a half death. The ritual required for someone to die in soul so Ranni could only die in body.
"Marika...why...wouldst thou...gull me? Why...shatter..." could easily be read as implying the betrayal was the Shattering itself. Maliketh was devoted to preserving the Golden Order, and Marika destroyed it. I don't think Marika orchestrating the Night of the Black Knives really fits with her motivations. She was willing to sacrifice her children, but the point is that they would be sacrificed to another (the Tarnished), who would take their strength (their runes) and use it to become Elden Lord. Marika isn't saying "I'll kill you", she's saying "If you can't stand the heat, I'll let you die, no special treatment just because you're my kids". She wants champions to prove themselves worthy, and "grow strong in the face of death". Just assassinating the failures doesn't achieve anything for her. If they're weak, let them be slaughtered in the Shattering War. And I doubt Godwyn was weak - he beat the Ancient Dragons in defence of Leyndell. I'm not firmly against the idea that Marika was involved somehow (and I think there's plenty of room for being involved and fooled simultaneously e.g. Ranni didn't tell her about the splitting Death part), but as the lore stands I don't see why she would do it.
I don't actually think we know who beat Gransax. Godwyn did defeat Fortissax, but most things point to Fortissax being weaker than Gransax. Regardless, I do think you are correct about Godwyn being strong.
As far as motivation for the night of black knives, it could be as simple as a purging of the lesser demigods, her "unwanted children" (or "bastards" as the wording of the 1.0 version of the game put it). But whether Godwin was supposed to be a target at all is a big question if we go with this theory. I think it's safe to say that the soul splitting was entirely Ranni's machinations, but it could be she also orchestrated the targeting of Godwin in the first place. However, some support for Godwin being an original target would be the finger reader in deep root depths, who laments that Godwin was supposed to be a "Martyr to destined death", implying a potential intentionality to him receiving a true and proper death (that was of course subverted by Ranni)
Maybe the motivation was to begin the conflict, so the Shattering War could explode. A reason for the Golden Order to need the Tarnished back in the Lands Between, because none of the demigods did their actual jobs, and the empyreans refused the title, being only Miquella, Malenia, and Ranni, the only prospects to become the new god. And if she schemed with Ranni then she knew that her daughter needed to die in body so she could walk the dark path and put an end to the Greater Will
1:04 Marika’s words to her demigod children remind me of the one absolute law decreed on Apostles by the God Hand in Berserk: "Do as thou wilt." And of course the concept of sacrifice is intertwined with the Apostles and the God Hand as well.
This is, admittedly, more based on vibes than anything else, but there are two things I know about Marika: She is a schemer, and she at some point fell into conflict with the Greater Will. Setting all of this off by assassinating her own children just feels right.
Especially considering the imagery from the new trailer of her "stealing" something from what may be a womb. What happens to her during the Golden Order Age and her wanting to be rid of everything even at the cost of her own children could be some sort of karmic justice for the things she did to become Goddess.
Hope not, as that's FUCKED. She RUINED her best sons future both in this life AND the next life. Like, real b$%tch. Because it's fucked, it's probably true.
But the endgame was to ultimately kill herself too. Why go through your children first? Why suicide, after all you've to achieve power, with so many extra steps?
@@ArbiterEx Marika wanted power at the expense of everyone else. She's not some 4D chess master planning for her own death. She's the one who planted the golden tree (Erdtree) through betrayal and thus started the purge of the lands that Messmer then rules with flame as a tyrant, possibly with the intent to create the grounds for her golden tree. Miquella observed all of this and abandoned his fate, along with his golden flesh (very important detail: not simply his body, but his golden flesh. It's not a self-sacrifice, he's cutting his connection to Marika because he despises what she had done together with Messmer, but he's powerless to stop it). Miquella is among those who were betrayed by Marika. She used him. This implies that Miquella was a puppet for Marika, helping her gain followers. She used her own children to gain power, and she doesn't love her children unless they serve her in her quest for power.
Me (watching Rata's last stream): "How dare he critizise Yura Kitamura? This man has no idea about good musi-" Next vid starts with Popola's Theme. Me: *sigh* "Fine... We're even."
I have been thinking for a while, and the new story trailer does seem to give some credence to what im about to say but i believe that Marika's defining character trait above everything else is an insurmountable ambition. Basically, i think Marika above all else simply desires to rule, to have her own immortal kingdom of which she is its rightful ruler, and to do so she fully exploits every avenue she sees to remain in power, this means becoming the chosen god of the Greater Will (i also think the story trailer implies she wasnt meant to be the chosen god but she usurped that position through "seduction" and "betrayal"), it means removing destined death from the Elden Ring so her subjects can follow her into eternity (while also conspiring to use destined death to kill those that are more loyal to the Greater Will than they are to her), it means banishing Godfrey and the Tarnished while also implanting in them a prophecy so she can use them later, it means shattering the Elden Ring when shit hits the fan so the Greater Will cant just immediately replace her as its chosen god. I know that rn everyone is on the train of "haha Miquella is Griffith haha" but honestly if there is one Griffith-esque character in this game its 100% Marika, she has the same level of blinding ambition to rule that Griffith does.
I don't think that rule itself is the goal, Gideon says that Marika wants everybody to fight forever without end. You could say these two aren't mutually exclusive, but Gideon says: "Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle, unto eternity" while his armor: "Knowledge begins with the recognition of one's ignorance. The realization that the search for knowledge is unending. >But when Gideon glimpsed into the will of Queen Marika, he shuddered in fear. At the end that should not be
@@michaelwilliams8242 there’s multiple interpretations for his dialogue. Some (like myself) actually believe that the voices he’s hearing (and the text you’re reading in his armour set) is actually a result of Radagon. We know that Radagon is Marika, and so there’s a theory that Gideon’s whole speak misconstrued Radagon’s words for Marika’s. Because, of course…. No one knows Radagon is Marika in this world, aside from a set few people (carian loyalists who don the stitched masks radagon enforced on them etc.)
Hmm. Guess that could work. Greater Will already chose multiple new Empyreans amongst her children, so clearly it was getting ready to have her replaced. From what we know, Radagon seems to have been a loyal hound of the Golden Order and apparently rather fond of his children, so he might have been in favor of letting nature/the Greater Will take its course. Assuming she wasn't thrilled about those prospects, shattering the ring probably would have served that goal. First, it took away her and, more importantly, Radagon's power, preventing him from intervening. Next, like you mentioned, it would have prevented the Empyreans from taking her out directly, since they first would need to reassemble the ring. And with that, it would pit all of her children and the Empyreans against each other, possibly setting them up for failure to the point that even the Greater Will eventually gave up on them. And finally, it would open a window for Godfrey and/or his children to swoop in, take em all out and reinstate her as God. Which is what ultimately happened in most of the endings. I think. Don't know how that rather peculiar arrangement between Radagon and Marika worked exactly, but given that he immediately tried to repair the Ring she might have needed a distraction to do her thing, which may have been the ultimate purpose of the Night of the Black Knives. I guess.
Yea another youtube pointed this out. A lot of similarities between Marika and Grifith, as they basically both betrayed their people to achieve godhood. Among other things
My original thought way back when I first started the game was that the entire story is Marika's elaborate plan to orchestrate her own suicide. Trapped by her service to the Elden Ring, the Golden Order and having been long disillisoned with the Greater Will, her sending the Tarnished away to become almost "battle-hardened" in order to return to "kill a God" screamed to me that they were being fashioned into a weapon themselves. Hewg, for instance, while he's not willing to share the particulars of his imprisonment within' the Roundtable, is implied by most of his dialogue and his purpose that he's been set there in order to create a "God-slaying" weapon for whatever chosen Tarnished happens to step up to the plate. He has some lines in particular about the "sheer terror of HER", which I assume to be a reference to Marika. This was my impression on my first playthrough and seems to only hammer home with videos like this and the DLC trailer that Marika was a much bigger mover of the chess pieces than we think. Her splitting into Radagon in order to quell the Carian royals could have been with the ultimate end goal of creating Demigod children, cut from a different cloth for specific end goals. The betrayal spoken of here could be the sealing away of death, however a shard was kept to herself, as a backup or indeed always intended to be given away in a plan with Ranni.
3:55 THIS!!! This is what I have always believed, always interpreting Marika's dialogue and the opening as basically looking for a replacement for her and Radagon among the Demigods and that since they failed now it is up to us to claim the title of Elden Lord. The demigods will be sacrificed for us since they have runes that we need to be Elden Lord.
I always thought of this as her _warning_ her children, as a means of protecting them. Like saying: "become strong, or else the Greater Will shall forsake you and I'll be unable to protect you."
We can't be her replacement. There is a difference between being a god and being Elden Lord, same goes for her children who would need to be Empyrean. They most certainly couldn't replace Radagon as Elden Lord as we do
Graced up in the boilprawn shack straight geekin off these lobster flavored great rune infused deluxe dappled meats. Next up is a pack of rowa fruit edibles the Plug in the Iron Mask saw fit to partake in, shit has "marikas nipples" written on the bag in glintstone sharpie, I am going to fucking die tonight. Finna raid the fridge on some devour the very gods type shit
Weird idea but I was thinking that the hand she’s reaching into is Messmer as a baby since the scene is describing an affair. The strands she’s pulling out is his grace of gold and the scene where it seems like wind is happening.. looks like the veil over the land of shadow is being created. I think we’re seeing Marika hiding all of her mistakes.. Messmer, the pile of corpses that secretly feeds the Erdtree. The war that was to follow that was “a purge without grace or honor” happens after the affair scene and if Messmer reaping revenge on the land of Shadow… maybe it’s actually the land of the Numen which would make sense if Messmer is after revenge on his mother after she banished him. He’s the product of an affair.. which is why he isn’t mentioned in the main game.. he’s the child she never wanted.
I think she was but they were supposed to kill her, not Godwyn. She and Ranni both wanted out, and when the plan didn't work out on her end she Shattered the Elden Ring in a fit of rage. She also might have actually liked Godwyn in a Narcissistic Machiavelian kind of way, in her mind he was probably her only child that was actually useful.
I don't think so. I think her shattering elden ring doesn't actually have anything to do with Godwyn per say, but the unleashing of death (and breaking the order). I have a theory that originally grace was basically circulating in a closed loop (Erdtree, people, maybe powering Marika herself) and killing Godwyn reintroduced death into the world and broke this self-contained Golden Order system. Now grace is leaking out of this world back into the shadow world and the shadow world is leaking into the Lands Between through Godwyn's death poo.
I find this notion in the community that Marika is emotional and would shatter the elden ring because of her emotionality very hard to believe. Everything in the story points toward her being merciless, cold and scheming. This doesn't fit her at all. Also, if she is able to shatter the Elden Ring, why would she not be able to kill herself?
I think what is also interesting is that it seems the Godskin apostles are the ones that killed Iji because he was covered in black flame not red flame. Also there is an apostle on the way to Ranni's dead body, meaning they either were seeking her or delt with her in some way. However I do know the blackknives attacked blaiddth and failed. Perhaps Iji's helmet sealed him from the blackknives finding him but not the godskins
So Marika wasn’t upset about Godwyn dying, just that he didn’t die “properly”. This gives me quite a bit to think about, and changes what I thought her motivations were considerably. Can’t wait to see what the dlc reveals!
I think she might be the Gloam-eyed Queen. I think she enjoys seeing gods and demigods die. I think the flesh worn by the Nobles and Apostles are from her unnamed and unmentioned children, and I think Radagon is an alter-ego Marika was cursed with by the Greater Will for her rebellious scheming.
@@juice2307This is the least sensible thing I have ever heard. The gloam eyed queen was slayn by Maliketh in order to seal the rune of death. Maliketh is Marika's shadow. How the fuck would that work? I also hate this notion in the community that characters are different characters. Like, what kind of theory crafting is that? Did this arise from the Radagon is Marika thing? That is a very unique piece of lore and does not mean that all of the sudden any character could be anyone.
@@tinminator8905 I don’t think Marika is the GEQ but given duality is a running theme in Elden Ring, people can’t really be faulted for wondering that. Marika’s alternate aspect in Radagon is not unique to her. Miquella is believed to be St Trina and Ranni presents herself as Renna. Morgott also first appears as Margit. So it’s not a completely illogical thing to wonder.
@@alanthe2It's still pretty different because thos are different identities. But Radagon and Marika are seperate people but at the same time are the same person. With St.Trina we don't know yet if it's just a different identity or if it's like Radagon and Marika.
Also in the og story trailer she says Goldwyn and other demigods deaths “forced queen Marika to the brink”… As vauge as that is, it made it clear to me she didn’t want that to happen
@@joesheridan9451the shattering? Most definitely not, at least not the way she wanted to. It was probably a plan B to be followed in case everything else went south. But she still may have very well schemed alongside Ranni for the night of the black knives: she had her steal the rune of death and use it to imbue the blades for her personal assassins so that they could bring back destined death among the demigods, but Ranni saw through whatever her plan was by pulling a uno card and secretly killing herself at the right time to abandon her empyrean flesh, while also keeping her conscious self alive for putting her age of stars plan in motion later down the line. As a result, Godwyn only died in the soul, which apparently wasn't enough for Marika's plan to work the way she envisioned, so she just opted to shatter the Ring altogether instead. I believe we're gonna learn more about Marika's motifs in the dlc, especially now that the story trailer shone a new light upon her origins and those of the Golden Order itself.
This, and coming from Ranni it is all the more believable. Interacting with her it's very clear to notice she has quite a lot of pride in herself. The way she tells you she did it all allways felt like a brag by her. She did it all, and is quite proud about it. I still stick to the theory she convinced the black knives to help her due to having a shared enemy in Marika and the Golden Order. What the black knives didn't take in account is Ranni abandoning them the milisecond they had done their job and where no longer usefull to her. Which is why in my opinion once they found out they killed Igi and tried to kill Ranni (only to be defeated by Blaidd). I also believe that Radahn sealing Ranni's fate in place was also the reason that the Black Knives couldn't find her.
@weebto theres a creator channel that made the analogy between Godwyn and Baldur. If that is the case I dont think Marika intended for the rune of death to be used in her son's death.
@@weebto I'm not talking about the shattering I'm talking about the death of godwyn and other demigods, that's what "pushed queen marika to the brink"... I don't buy everything else you're saying. Her shattering the elden ring doesn't seem like a plan B or even a plan? What does that achieve in relation to things going south as you say? It seems completely seperate like something she decided to do impulsively because she'd been wanting to rebel against the greater will for a while.
While I personally agree with the theory, I really dislike how many people treat is as fact and don't state it as an assumption/deductions when presenting theories based on it. When I first started learning the lore I thought it was a confirmed fact because people speak so confidently on it, which made it confusing when I encountered people who disagree.
I think it was smoughtown that bought this up but close relations could just mean they are part of the same race and culture not that they are coconspirators in the NOTBK
We all know that Fromsoft, specifically Miyazaki, purposefully write major lore elements to have ambiguous meanings, and I believe this is definitely a prime example. I don't think we will ever get any definitive proof of Marika's direct involvement or not. Personally, I think she opened up the possibility of something like the Night Of the Black Knives to happen for her own ends. Marika always striked me as the most selfish of all the characters in the game, despite all the "good" that she has done in the Lands Between. What else could a supposed god of the realm want? Total control of her own volition. She was still just a puppet of the Greater Will, and I think the events leading to the Shattering opens up the possibilities of Marika breaking free from that fate, much like Ranni. But I think what she was hoping for would be a champion who can ultimately sever the connection of the Greater Will to the Lands Between and be her Elden Lord.
I always got the feeling that more was going on in the story. I think Marika had a plan to make the demigods fight. But I don’t think she was behind the plan against Godwyn. Mainly because there is a Melina conversation where Marika is imploring the tarnished not to lose faith in the golden path. Shattering the Elden Ring, in my mind, was an attempt at removing her children from the font of power from the Elden Ring. Mainly because I don’t think she knew who was on her side at that point. I don’t think Marika was in full control of her subjects at the time and get the feeling that Ranni’s plot was not sanctioned by Marika. Edit: She was even paranoid about Radagon, her other side, and may have believed he wanted to replace her (mainly from the comment on he was not yet a god).
@@WAR3600 There is a dialogue that Melina relays at a Minor Erdtree. “In Marika's own words. I declare mine intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order. Through understanding of the proper way, our faith, our grace, is increased. Those blissful early days of blind belief are long past. My comrades; why must ye falter?" I think this points to the one of two ideas. One that she might have stated losing the faith of her followers due to the Erdtree no longer producing sap as described by the “Blessed Dew Talisman” which states “It was once thought that the blessed sap of the Erdtree would drip from its boughs forever -- but that age of plenty swiftly came to a close, and with time, the Erdtree became more an object of faith.” Or Marika removing grace from the tarnished. Marika could be addressing another party, but I think the tarnished are the most likely. Not explicitly stated, but faltering is generally used as a term when people experience a lapse of faith. I can’t really think of another group that fits that description.
Given everything we've seen on Marika - she can easily be called 'The Great Betrayer' - from how she first ascended to Godhood just revealed by the DLC Story Trailer to likely being involved in the Night of the Black Knives and the murder of her own Golden son - she is truly an unparalleled villain.
Well, I think there're some holes here. So, The Shaterring and the war after, in which the Demigods failed to become Lords happened AFTER The Night Of The Black Knives (Gonwyn's death). And it's 100% certainty that Marika told the Demigods her ultimatum BEFORE the assassination of Godwyn since she was imprisoned right after she shattered the Elden Ring. So, it's a stretch to blame her in the orchestration of the Night since it's illogical to, first, tell the Demigods that they should make smth of themselves, then kill Godwyn, then "be pushed to the brink" by yourself and hope that The Shattering war would produce true Lord.
i'm also not totally on board with Marika being the puppet master. After a while we simply cant say every character is lying. Ranni explicitly says "Indeed, I am the witch Ranni. I stole a fragment of the Rune of Death,and used it to forge the godslaying black knives through fearsome rite.I did it all." She STOLE it,she admits that she did it ALL. Not Marika gave it to her,stole it. Of course people gonna come up that Ranni just lying and scheming again,but i dont believe so. But i can also understand the other side. Maybe she was in on the plot,but Ranni betrayed her,so Godwyn did not had True Death,only died in soul,and that is what drove Marika to the brink. But also,in a sense of storytelling,Ranni never mentions Marika being part of the plan of the assassination. Why would'nt she just admit that too? I mean, i get it From storytelling is hard to get,but then why would Ranni straight up say " It was me,all alone." Why would she defend Marika's reputation so to speak?
@@NewMitchell-wh3fj In the Elden Ring story trailer, Ranni first talks about Godwyn’s death, and them mentions that Marina was driven to the brink. Seems most obvious that this narration is chronological.
@@NewMitchell-wh3fj It happened an age ago. But when I recall, I see it true. On a night of wint'ry fog. The rune of death was stolen And the demigods began to fall, starting with Godwyn the Golden. Queen Marika was driven to the brink. The Shattering ensued; a war that wrought only darkness.... From the story trailer. There is no reason to believe in a story trailer that its not chronoligical
I did get some kind of "Eve, Mother of All" vibe for a second when the trailer dropped and talked about seduction and betrayal, especially after remembering certain Serpent-God who's said to have been ruling long ago and all the snake iconography on Messmer.
My vibe check on marika is that she has been searching for an heir to the golden lineage. So far each empyrean introduced has been for a different order. Ranni might have had a golden lineage, but it was definitely tainted with her carrion lineage. Malania is tainted with rot and miquella abandon the grace of gold. Godwyn, morgott, mohg are not empyreans.(potentially can't be even) radahn and rykard are tainted with the lineage of nokron and blasphemy respectively. Godefroy and godrick are mere descendents of the golden lineage and mesmer (if he is her son) is the embodiment of blasphemy. My speculation is that the night of the black knives was actually a ritual to create a golden empyrean from parts of ranni and godwyn, but it failed and led to marika going nuclear
@lynackhilou4865 The point would be that she wouldn't need to be a god anymore. Again, no real evidence, just vibes. But i think that at first she wanted to be a god, but at some point she started to resent godhood. So she gathered heirs to pass on the legacy with the back up plan that if no heir could be found she could always call back the tarnished to blow everying up. When I said, "When she failed, she went nuclear." I meant that as soon as she knew that an heir was impossible, she didn't care anymore.
@@joereed8872 yeah that makes sense , the thing with marika is that she's involved in so many events and aspects of the lore , and she's so cunning and playing 4d chess with everyone that it's hard to pinpoint her intentions . I'm glad the dlc will reveal some things about her but i'm sure miyazaki will leave us with even more questions
I got the impression on my first playthrough that Marika, Ranni, and Melina all have this tie or shackle to the Outer Will, and they have to go through great lengths to set plans against it like 'divesting themselves of flesh'.
I think the rumors of Marika’s close ties to the Black Knife Assassins is based on Melina. While Melina’s potential to be Marika’s daughter may be lost to history or never known, she may have been seen frequently in Marika’s close company. Melina moves like a BKA and bares a weapon like theirs, she might even have been known to have some relationship with them other than her sick dance moves. Then, of course, there is the whole Numen, Eternal City, and potentially for Marika to have previously resided in what is now the Nameless Eternal City. And the mimic veil, concealing veil, Marika’s garb, and the hiding magic clothes of the BKA connections.
I also think Marika, as Radagon, was doing their Liurnia business during Hoarah Loux’s campaign against the Fire Giants. Rennala, I think, was in on Marika’s plans for a long time, possibly before getting married to each other. It was the pact Rennala held with the trolls that made them betray the Fire Giants, leading to Godfrey’s victory. Of course, being Radagon in Liurnia, Marika was not present for that victor. The Fell God was never truly killed, only “believed” to be killed by Marika. Radagon/Marika did not just go to Liurnia for that pact. They went to share information, experiment, refine Marika’s great scheme. This would involve information gathered about Destined Death by the Gloam Eyed Queen who was only “defeated” by Maliketh. She wasn’t killed, just removed from the limelight and allowed to sneak off (One betrayal of Maliketh). Also, the amber egg with Miquella’s Great Rune of the Unborn. The rune was placed in the egg to sustain it and allow Rennala access to its power but not allow its corrupting influence access to Rennala. Experiments seem to involve making functional back-up bodies for some reason. Perhaps to liberate the cursed children of their curses, to revive the dead, as insurance for anyone who may need to step out of their own bodies to complete Marika’s plans. It also seems that, as I assume the Rune of the Unborn is twin to Malenia’s and thus is Miquella’s, Rennala may have something to do with Miquella. Specifically, being a spirit tuner type and a user of non-grace related magic… and because Ranni says Rennala is sleeping, Rennala may be involved with how Miquella went to the Land of Shadows or in communion with St. Trina. She might even be making bodies to serve as a returning point. And then Miriel gives a cheeky hint when saying Godwyn was “hounded” from the Lands Between. A comment that clicks when Melina recounts the odd moment where Marika is talking to herself and calls Radagon a “leal hound.” This conflict between Marika and Radagon is a play, a little deception to distract and comfort the Elden Beast as the most difficult moment of Marika’s plan grows near. That is, where she would drastically wound the Elden Beast and likely be killed but Radagon would pretend to guard it but actually imprisons it within the Erdtree and prevents it from contacting its allies. And Rennala was likely aware that she’d likely never see her husband/wife again, as well as the likelihood of all their children dying and the whole thing failing if they are caught.
10:11 You can see there are two parts from Maliketh's Blade that were removed from it. So, one is Ranni for sure. Then, according to what you said, it seems the other was Marika Herself. Good video Rataroskr.
I think that this theory revolves far too much around complicating things, considering that more simple/straightforward answers are plausible. Taking into account Rogier's dialogue, the Numen and the Nox have some ties, and what ties them together are exactly the Black Knives. We all know what happened to the Nox. It doesn't seem farfetched to me that the Black Knives might have harbored resentment for Marika/the Golden Order and that Ranni might have capitalized on it to enact the Night of the Black Knives. After all, Ranni has an interest in Nox civilization and wants to obtain the Fingerslayer Blade, so they are perfect (circumstantial) allies, with mutual interest in what each party has to offer. Now, there's definitely some degree of uncertainty as far as many events involving the Night of the Black Knives go. It's possible that they might have been duped in some way, and that this led to such alliance falling apart, considering the Alecto evergaol. But it's also likely that it might have been a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of deal, and it's a fairly reasonable way to see it. The Blasphemous Claw sets a precedent for this kind of deal. Ranni and Rykard are certainly not allied with one another by the time we arrive in the Lands Between, such alliance seems to have been rather short-lived and their ambitions/goals don't match at all. Also, the Maliketh's betrayal thing. It seems fairly straightforward to me that the betrayal in question is the Shattering, because we know that the Golden Order was created exactly when the Rune of Death was removed from the ER, and Maliketh's whole existence is what allowed this to happen in the first place. So the betrayal is having caused the Shattering, leading to the ER and alongside it the Golden Order being in a state of disrepair, effectively spitting on Maliketh's raison d'etre in the process. He was nothing more than a guard dog to Marika, and yet due to her actions he has no more reason to protect the Rune of Death, only his loyalty to Marika remaining
The Nox are the fallen Numen and Marika comes from the eternal cities. I didn't believe this for the longest time either, but the previous, cut name of a location in Nokron was Marika's square or something along those lines, which fully convinced me that that is indeed the intention. Things are more interwoven than you think. Keep in mind you are also ignoring the item description saying that Marika is rumoured to have close ties with the BKFs, Marika showing multiple signs of doubt and betrayal to order and the BKF that is just chilling outside her bedchamber. I don't believe connection means involvement but in this case there are too many obvious intentional hints for Marika to have nothing to do with the Night of the Black knives.
@@tinminator8905 I mean, i'm not ignoring it. I don't think that Marika came to the Lands Between alone, independantly of other Numen like the Black Knives and (presumably) the Nox/Numen who ended up founding Nox civilization. We don't know what the close ties really are, but i assume they have to do with coming from the same culture/appearing during the same time. Perhaps they used to be more closely allied in the past, and helped Marika gain recognition for some time. That aside, using cut content to make such point is pretty shaky. Like, it's cut content for a reason
@@Navelia Yes, because it was spelling out too much of the story. Same with cut content outright stating that Miquella is Saint Trina. It is obvious that it is fact as it makes perfect sense with the story, but Miyazaki tries to keep a balance of what he wants to tell people and what he wants to keep hidden. Sometimes to keep that balance he has to take away content that confirms too much.
I have just thought of an interesting theory regarding the DLC. The beasts that follow Godfrey, Ranni and Marika are described as their shadows. What If the people of the shadowrealm that Messmer purged where Beastman? That would also explain the appearance of the Liondance which is confirmed to be associated with that civilization.
Ooo, this gave me the idea for a play through where you can only kill the demigods with weapons of destined death (black knife or Maliketh’s black blade). Everything else can be killed however else you’d like. Idk why I didn’t think of this earlier but this video just triggered the idea for some reason. I’m gonna try it
hmm..that could be interesting. First "destined death weapon" is black knife right ? Malekith's blade does not matter because you kinda get it at the end of the game and you have to kill a few demigods to get to it. I cant think on top of my mind other weapons of destined death, what would you have at your disposal ? Also, Rykard is a demigod but also Eglay is kinda him, would using serpent hunter spear count for him, or you could try to wound him with serpent hunter as much as you can and make the final strike with black knife.
@@DreamskyDance you get the black knife from the Altus plateau, so you’re have to get there and kill the assassin before any demigods, then go back and take them out. I was thinking the same thing about Rykard, just getting the killing blow with the knife. Maliketh’s sword could be useful for end game or optional bosses
@@nickperri6571 yeah thats why i was pondering are there any more weapons or even spells/miracles that could be counted to be "from or close to destined death". I dont think so, but ill try to search it up later. ...now that i think about it, yeah i think at least no spells or miracles, all that deal in death, deal in Godwyn related death which is exactly why it is what it is because of lack of destined death.
@@DreamskyDance one weapon that is very close to Destined Death is the Blade of Calling. It's the weapon Melina uses and it's a blade before it was "modified" into a Black Knife, so technically a pre state of Destined Death.
Great Vidéo as always Rata. Im gonna just ramble a bit here if its ok XD. So that would mean Marika the super planner didn't saw the death of Godwin coming? Because how could that have brought her ''to the brink'' so Ranni would have betrayed her by tricking the black knives in splitting the cursemark? I also have a small problem with the black knives in Ordina. They really looks to be garding de place. The other possibility is that they want in to get revenge on Miquella who I believe is in with Ranni because of the bell and the Torrent. We obviously are missing a lot of key info wich I hope we get some in the DLC. I beleive Marika always knew her age would come to an end and just putted her best safety mesure in place so she can have a chance of surviving this and getting rid of Radagon in the process. Godfrey, the Tarnished and Hewg !
I have said for two years now that Marika betrayed Maliketh and clearly had some knowledge of the KoBK and that Ranni alone could never have pulled off the attack. I still think Ranni had the assistance of the GEQ to steal and make use of the portion of the Rune of Death that they got, since the GEQ would be the one person to know EXACTLY how to make it into a weapon(s).
I agree to most you have said, but you missed an important aspect: what's the point of killing Godwyn. Imho, the reason would be that Marika thought he could keep things from going south AFTER the Shattering. Godwyn is in fact described as the ideal "prince" of the order, probably the only demigod who could keep the others "united" while they found a solution for the Shattering. On the other hand, Marika wanted the demigods to fail, so that the Tarnished could be called back... If she planned the Shattering then it only makes sense that she would create as much caos as possible, killing THE Prince of the Order is certainly a top priority. No point in shattering the ring if there is somebody that could keep things going on. The only other candidate would have been Radagon but ofc he couldn't have been an option
Agreed. While the night of the black knives specifically is reference to the night that Godwyn died, we know for a fact that he was just the FIRST demigod to die. I believe that the toppling of the dominoes, the assassinations to follow of the other demigods was specifically an attack on the golden lineage. This is supported by the fact that by present time, the only one of the golden lineage who had been left standing to inherit the Great Rune was the Godrick, one of Marika's lineage, yes but such a distant relation his blood was "sorely diluted". He was never going to be Lord. This always felt very intentional. When Marika seemingly started to harbor doubts (possibly after she had decided to search the depths of the Golden Order and leave blind faith behind), if she wanted an way to ensure that what she made in the golden order was completely unmade, it would stand to reason that she would intend to have the golden lineage wiped out so they would never be the ones to take up her place.
@@DeeplyBroken00 yea, it's funny because she tells her demigods to fight for supremacy, but after playing the game even I would say that the chances of them finding a solution were basically none. If anybody had a chance to make things right then it would have been either Godwyn or Radagon, and both were out of the picture. Some may say Miquella, but he was a very particular being. I doubt most would have followed him beside Malenia. And because of his nature he would have been destined to fail in any case... Maybe we could change things in the dlc
The problem is that this doesn’t really address her actions around shattering the Elden Ring or the games descriptions around it and later events. It’s also possible that we are Marika’s betrayal around destined death as WE set it free guided by grace and can only read the item description of the soul after having done so.
My theory is that since the numan could originally be from the the shadow lands and the in the cinematic trailer we see what’s looks to be a black knife assassin surrounded by messmers flame then maybe it’s their way of being able to get back at marika or do anything to overthrow her as they would have some distain for the erdtree and its people
My biggest counter point is, "why Godwyn?" And I think most people think the same. Her shattering of the Elden Ring is also another open ended question on the matter, why would she destroy what she wish others to conquer? Who is the God she wanted Hewg to forge a weapon to kill? Did she want to die, be killed? She's such a walking contradiction. Being this legendary conspirator who predicts everything that will happen is so in odds with the heap mess in a stake we meet at the end of the game. Did Ranni outwit her? Is she aligned with the Greater Will? If not when did she stop? Why seal destiny death in the first place? I have trouble accepting she is that "smart" that "far seeing", instead of bumbling along and making spur of the moment decisions. Like "go away tarnished, you are useless now, if I ever need you again I'll give your grace back". "oh btw myself, let's marry and have children". "oh time to kill my bastards sons and my precious first born, UwU". "stupid ring let me shatter you, I need a new handsome lord". "let me seal destiny death to scawy, ooops let me steal a little bit back". "I like being God, no death for all! love you Greater Will!" "I hate you greater will, everyone must die a true death now *smiles*" She's so all over the place it annoys the shit out of me.
I have a theory that Marika was behind the night of the black knives to kill the nameless demigods. But the part where Godwyn dies wasn't in her plans, it's what Ranni did. For me it explains why it was relatively easy for the assassins to get to the capital and kill a lot of demigods. Marika was aware of them, it's just she didn't know Godwyn would suffer the half death as well. And it would make Marika's despair as well. Imagine having your golden son being killed in the night you purposefully look away to let the assassins in. I think it would hurt way more compared to Marika not knowing about anything at all.
Very pleased with the shadow of the colossus soundtrack in the background, name is nearly the same as the elden ring dlc. Shadow of the colossus was the first game I have ever played, and elden ring will be a continuation to the games that I love.
Marika is basically Mother Nature and Evolutionary selection, but more specifically she is alike to the ancient notion of the Veil of Isis, which was an art motif about the mysteries of Nature and how Man cannot see the face of Mother Nature from beneath her veil. And Marika is obsessed with "veiling" things. Marika's Mischief (the Mimic's Veil) disguises the wearer. Marika veiled the Shadowlands. Her bedchambers are veiled. Nature is veiled, and we must work diligently as a species to peek beneath her veil. We only see Marika's face directly at the end when we must mend the Elden Ring, or, as it were, Natural Law according to the previous age.
I believe multiple things. 1. That Marika and The black knife assassins, who are all Numen , are all related to the Nox. (Whether they share a common ancestry or the Numen are some sort of offshoot, or vice versa) 2. That we are the Lord of night that the Nox are waiting for. And 3. That Marika was as culpable as Ranni was in the night of black knives. Perhaps she even put Ranni up to it.
The bigger problem in the theory of Marika as part of the conspiracy to kill Godwyn (which would make sense, as you have explained) is that her following behaviour doesn't seem to match up. Marika, after the death of Godwyn, was "driven to the brink", implying she was genuinely hurt by the death of Godwyn, and then shattered the Elden Ring in what seems to be a sudden decision. Her breaking of the Elden Ring doesn't seem to go very well for her either, as she is promptly imprisoned for what might have been millennia and her supposed plan to kill the Elden Beast might have failed completely if one of the demigods emerged victorious from the Shattering Wars or the Tarnished came and failed. It just seems like she had a big, complex plan that ended in a big mess if this is actually what she had planned, as opposed to Marika having a better plan that she never got to execute in its entirety because the sudden assassination of Godwyn led her to take a brazen decision that screwed her over as well. I don't like the idea that Ranni was lying in the story trailer, because accepting that there are explicit lies in the narration and descriptions is something I feel endangers the whole legitimacy of any attempt at building a story out of From's games, and that's for the same reason I don't give much importance to stuff like "it is said" and "it is rumored" when found in descriptions. If a description tells you that the assassins are said to have ties with Marika it means they had, not that they made you believe they had and then it's actually not true. The description however never explains what kind of ties we're talking about, and it might be that it's just about both Marika and the assassins being numen. Hopefully the DLC can add some new information here, because right now I'm getting very mixed messaging from the game, with some stuff supporting the idea that Marika was in on the plot and others that seem to point against it.
I’ve always thought that she was involved but didn’t know the extent of Ranni’s plot. She knew the lesser people of her dynasty were going to die (the ones that would be naught at all) but she never imagined Godwyn would’ve been targeted. That’s why the black knives hunt Iji and Blaidd after Ranni starts making her presence known. But idk, the lore is broken to its core.
I really wonder if it's significant that we never actually fight Marika; we fight Radagon. Perhaps Marika too has divested herself of her flesh, and is unseen throughout the main game.
I don’t think she was. There was no way Ranni was working alone but it seemed like Marika being able to shatter the elden ring was a happy bi product of ranni’s concise message to the gods.
i always thought marika was saying her children will be sacrifices, but if they dont make anything of their lives they will be ONLY sacrifices. but still sacrifices either way
Speaking of the night of black knives, that Cursemark of Death that was carved onto Godwyn, it's stated to not be complete. I just realized that the item description says it SHOULD have "taken the shape of a circle". I can't help but imagine the full circle looking like an eclipse, and if an eclipse is representable of Death, then how does that affect our understanding of the nature of those who live in Death and the nature of the Sun's relationship with the Lands Between? Edit: I kept on thinking a bit more on it, the moon covering the sun is what causes an eclipse, perhaps this might be related to the sin the nox committed against the Greater Will?
Another great video. The finger reader in deep root depths refers to Godwyn as a lord, he also made something of himself in the dragon war and gained the title of 'The Golden'. So I don't think Marika would have seen him amounting to a sacrifice. Ranni also says that she did it all, she stole the rune of death. So maybe she is lying? But that is a little odd. This doesn't mean that Marika had nothing to do with the plot, Marika could have been ok with going after some of the other demi gods and the Ranni Godwyn situation was unintentional. Marika really does not seem keen on the death root.
One interesting thing to note with the "unwanted children" line from that ghost by the mausoleum, is that the wording was different in the 1.0 version of the game....he uses the term "Marika's bastards " instead
I don't believe Marika's endgame was merely *an* elden lord. It was an elden lord Tarnished, who'd kill the Elden Beast and free Lands Between from Greater Will. The details of the pplan weren't clear to her at the time she took the mantle of GW's Vessel, but the end goal was there, from the beginning. As she continued to slay or imprison other Outer Gods, now under the banner of Golden Order, she plotted and put in motion the plan to break her shackles. The Shattering wasn't an act of grief. It was the final push once all the dominoes of her plan were in place, Radahn's stars arresting fates of all except Tarnished, forcing GW to summon them in order to find a way to fix the Elden Ring, despite its (justified) hate for their kind... an action which misfired, burned the Erdtree down, brought the Elden Beast down and replaced Golden Order with a random alternative exactly as Marika intended. The Fingerslaying knife's description says why you can''t use it, but Ranni can.
This is my interpretation, but I think the tarnished return plan was just a back up plan for Marika to reset everything by killing every demi-gods. Her real plan is to continue her ideology, and the best candidate for this is Miquella. However, the plan seems to fail after one another. First, Marika wanted to get rid of both Godwyn and Ranni in one swoop. She fed her black knife scheme to Ranni so she could destroy her empyrean flesh. In case you didn’t know, if both Ranni, and Godwyn didn’t die at the same time, the rune of death would not split, and both would meet their true death. However, Ranni survived because her stars and destiny were halted after Radahn challenged and conquered stars at Selia. Thus, Marika scheme to kill both Ranni and Godwyn failed miserably. Next, Miquella, while being embedded in the helix tree, got kidnapped by Mohg. When we talked to Gideon after we had defeated Malenia, he said “I heard speculation Miquella embedded himself in the Haligtree, but before he could finish, someone cut the tree open and absconded with his infant form.Indeed, it seems those words held weight. How vexing. That the All-knowing didn't have the full story... Perhaps the Queen's sorrow was justified... ” This quote implies the kidnapping of Miquella might be the true cause that drove Marika to her grief, and shattering of the Elden Ring.
Lately I've had the inclination that Radagon was behind The Night of Black Knives. We don't really know much about the other Demi-gods that were killed on that night but in all likelihood they were descendants of the Golden Lineage, the line of Godfrey. Marika and Radagon likely didn't have more children pass Miquella and Malenia simply because Ranni would have had a longer list of Empyreans to read off to us when she was explaining things. Via Godrick, it is established that the Golden Lineage did manage to get a few generations deep, for him to be a distant descendant with watered down blood so to speak. I think Radagon was on a mission to remove the era of the Erdtree, heck they even remove it from the cover of their holy book (Golden Order Principia cover depicts the Elden Ring not the Erdtree). But before you can fully phase out the Erdtree you would need to remove those who's relevance relies on it first because they wil be the most likely to fight for it. The problem was everyone in the Lands Between was immortal, which would require the use of Destined Death. But there was another problem, back when death was a thing the Erdtree faithful would get Erdtree burials and be reborn. This would undo his work. So he removed the rune of the Unborn and left it with Rennala, probably when he dropped off his Elden Lord Statue for them to put in the Library. Without the Rune of the Unborn rebirth through the Erdtree would be impossible. The removal was likely completely unnoticed as in the era of the Golden Order, Erdtree burials are unnecessary since people don't die in the first place (founding event of Golden Order was the removal of Destined Death). Things got off the rails when the assassination squad, independent of Radagon, approached Ranni to assist and she made her own agenda. I don't think anyone else knew Ranni's plans. I don't think anyone planned for Deathroot. Marika likely didn't flip out right after Godwyn's death because she hoped Erdtree burial would cause him to be reborn but when it became clear he wasn't being reborn then we get the grieving Marika smashing the ring. I personally gleam a lot of intentions out of the line "O Radagon, leal hound of the Golden Order. Thou'rt yet to become me. Thou'rt yet to become a god." This gives the impression, he was trying to become a god and with the delivery of this line Marika reveals she is on to his plotting. The Shattering of the Ring, to me these days, feels like it was done to spite Radagon. The god she wanted Hewg to make a weapon for us to kill with is Radagon. You might be saying "But Radagon isn't a god" If for only a moment he was. The Sacred Relic sword is made out of Radagon, we see the Elden Beast grab his body sink it into the void and pull out a sword. The cross guards are his arms performing Golden Order Totality (Radagon's signature gesture). Then, the first line of the sword's description reads "Sword wrought from the remains of a GOD who should have lived a life eternal." I've run out of steam sorry for the wall I hope someone reads it.
I think she wanted Radagon to die that night but Ranni changed it to Godwyn because he would ruin her plan to change the world and Marika shattered the Elden Ring out of desperation because Radagon was taking over. Ranninalso knew that it would cause Marika to become desperate and no longer have the sense to try and keep the lands between together and everything would become chaos for Ranni to make her move
I dont know if this means anything but why is the black knife assassin in the Evergaol by Ranni beheaded? Shes the only beheaded black knife assassin I noticed in the game. She is headless like the mausoleum knights
One of the big things that holds people back from supporting Marika being behind the Night of the Black Knives is that the conspirators targeted Godwyn, who was seemingly so beloved by all. It becomes necessary for people to justify Marika not knowing that her favorite child was going to be murdered, because why on earth would she want him dead? And the answer is: because he was the perfect heir. Marika clearly wants her children to war, the speech Ratatoskr cites in the video about "Make of yourself what thou wilt..." can't honestly be read any other way. She wants them to embrace ambition and to see what happens. But Godwyn is the obvious and perfect heir. So long as he lives, his siblings will simply defer to his claim and back him. (Well, except for Mogh, but as an Omen his feelings don't matter.) If Marika is going to break her family, it starts with removing the only member who could hold them together in a crisis. Think of Godwyn like a safety rail. Marika can't shove the Golden Order over the cliff so long as he's in place. He has to go if she's going to see this through.
I notice how in the first trailer they show Godwin's death, and they make emphasis on his hair...and now in the new trailer, they make more emphasis on the golden hair that is taken out of the gina looking thing...so I bet is Godwyn's hair Marika is grabing and using to make that ritual thing
I always thought Marika shattering the ring, when it was constructed in her current ideal way without death, giving Maliketh his purpose, was the form of her betrayal to his role. Maliketh directly questions the shattering: “why shatter…?” I thought it was the sense that Marika betrayed everybody she promised would be fine under her ideals and her rule, by choosing to forsake said rule. Maliketh knows she did it, while the general public doesn’t, only that it was shattered at all. I mean, Maliketh being given the role of guarding Death itself does make his job among the most important figures in the whole of the story. No wonder he was betrayed even above others. But yeah, between highlighting the connections in this video and fadedraven’s comments, it’s a good possibility worth chewing over. Well done as always!
either, Marika broke the Elden ring in an effort to sever the control of the Greater will/the two fingers because she did not wish her and her family to serve as an extension of that god. OR she destroyed it out of despair in the state of the world - because she wanted the laws of the universe to change after her family was wronged. basically either she planned freedom from the outer will or she meant to throw away godhood because it didn't provide her with security and control for her family. if she specifically meant to go against the outer will - then she probably aided Rannis ambition to untether her fate from the Greater will. the only evidence against this is - why would she sacrifice her son? the one demi-god most connected to "Gold"? well, if the control of the Greater will is symbolised through Gold - the closer and in tune with the Golden order and the Elden beast you are - the more of the golden lineage you are - then Marika could've seen Godwyn already lost to the Greater will.
Don't forget how Marika didn't sound too stricken by grief in her probably last talk with Radagon. If Marika played a major role behind the scenes, I wonder how she assisted Ranni besides betraying Maliketh and connecting her to the assassins. I also believe that even Godwyn may have been involved as Ranni's potential husband and how ironically they were joined together by that half wheel of Death mark.
I'm of the mindset that Marika was victim to the Greater Will's control, and shattered herself to be free of it following her son's murder. Ranni saw that Marika was a slave to the Outer God and took a different path. Marika co-conspiring in the NotBK doesn't explain why she would have done it, considering knowing that she'd have to shatter herself and subsequently be crucified for millennia as punishment. It also doesn't address why Marika would instruct her ghost daughter Melina to burn the Erdtree. But that's just a theory, a _game theory._
i think she was, but i think her motivations weren't quite as simple as it's assumed by most people. something important is that marika is the god of the golden order and vessel of the elden ring, when the ring and order were shattered to me that suggests she was also shattered in some metaphorical way. i like to bang on about this but her being called marika the eternal is a very deliberate choice and we all know how miyazaki feels about unnatural immortality or refusing to let things change, the way i see it she stopped being a monster and came to realise how stagnant and corrupt her order was (this happened sometime late into the age of fundamentalism) and became increasingly desperate to create the change that she'd brutally resisted for so long. she orchestrated the night of black knives in order to kickstart things, possibly wanted ranni or someone else to take advantage and overthrow the order, and when that seemed to fail she literally broke mentally and that's when she decided to just destroy the ring. she didn't care how much damage she did, she knew change was necessary and she was willing to destroy the entire world for the chance for someone to be able to put it back together in a better way. and since she'd lost faith in her children she gave grace to the tarnished warriors, since she viewed them as the only ones truly capable of fixing things, and did some mojo to bring back melina to guide anyone promising. also speaking of melina i just had an insane theory. what if the irritating "gloam" sky in the last trailer really was meant to be gloam, and melina was a child of marika's affair with the previous god in the shadow lands, then when she stole the godly power it somehow left melina with these gloam powers and that's how she became the gloam eyed queen? that's the only logical way i can think of that melina is both the gloam eyed queen and marika's daughter, it explains how she got those powers and why she would have wanted to rebel, since unlike mesmer she didn't betray her people so wanting revenge on marika is understandable
I might be misremembering things, but I don't think there's mention in the game that anyone else has ever broken a great rune (not sure if Ranni and Miquella's divestment counts) except Marika who shattered the Elden Ring itself. It would track that Marika would be capable of breaking a piece off of the rune of death.
