Thawne Tells Barry Why He Hates Him | The Flash Armageddon Crossover [HD] 

Lmao…”Don’t you have anything better to do?” Every hero should ask their villains that simple question.

Thawne literally hates Barry because he stole Thawne's "Thunder"

1:46 "Only a sociopath would react to something so small with that kind of rage" that's a damn good line

Thawne’s level of pettiness is legendary

I love how thawne is so confident in Barry’s kindness that he literally threatens him still knowing he’s not gonna let him die

It’s really cool how Barry’s interactions with Thawne show how he’s grown as a character over the show; compare this to when he talked to Thawne in the season 1 finale. He’s a lot less emotional and seems to have completely lost his fear of him. He doesn’t even bring up Thawne killing his mother, he’s just focused on the situation at hand.

I love how perfectly petty this motivation is, because i genuinely think if Thawne had a reasonable motivation it would have damaged his character. This shows you just how lost he is, it shows how no matter how many villains the flash can change Thawne will never, ever be reachable.

“Don’t you have anything better to do” that’s a question every hero should ask their villain

you can tell Grant Gustin is actually enjoying this scene with his acting, like he finally gets to do what he and a lot of the fans wanted, some PROPER story writing.

Pointing this out, in the comics thawne hated flash cause he realise he is a nobody to barry. He admired the flash in the future and wanted to become him, then after having a reality check by barry, thawne sought out to show barry how he changed only to realise he meant nothing to barry and what broke him was finding out that he is the flash’s greatest enemy, the whole reason as to why thawne fought barry was that it was the only way he could spend time with his idol

I actually love this motivation. Not every villain needs to be some grand visionary or some well-intended extremist or some agent of chaos who wants to destroy everything for kicks. There are people who are just so petty, insecure, and narrow-minded that they take any minor slight as reason enough to go off the deep end. They don't need a tragic backstory or the be the product of some failed system. It actually makes for a villain who is just as interesting because everything they do is their own choice. There's no "if only X happened, then he wouldn't be a villain" here. No, even if Barry went back and somehow allowed Thawne's presentation go off the way he wanted it, Thawne would STILL find some offense or take some comment Barry said the wrong way and we'd be back to where we are now. "Don't you have anything else to do?" Is always the perfect response to this kind of villain.

God I love this scene, going back all those seasons to answer a question we never got a fully clear answer too, and a satisfying one that makes Thawne petty and crazy, and the growth since the last time they had a conversation like this were Barry doesn’t even mention his mom showing he’s grown. Just 👌

He had balls to still tell him that he's gonna try to kill after saving his life 😭😭

I like how Thawne’s origin is somewhat similar to the comics. In the comics he created accidents that would put people in danger in order for him to save them and make himself look like the hero. But once Barry found out Thawne was doing so he put an end to the fake heroic acts. Glad the writers were able to make Thawne’s origin similar as everyone has been commenting for years that they’ve never gone over his origins (which is true)

A lot of people forget (or may not know) that in Eobard’s time period crime/disasters are a rare occurrence. He wasn’t exaggerating when he said Flash stole his moment.

1:46 Your so right Barry. No one must overreact over the smallest things.

The show becomes elite when these two are together on screen. Such a complicated, twisted dynamic together. The truest definition of love/hate.

I agree with everyone that Matt Lescher Reverse Flash would have been cooler. I love Tom Cavanagh and season 1 potrayal of RF, but Matt shows the psychopathy more. "NOW WHO'S THE VILLIAN FLASH?"

I think Thawn still does admire Berry in a way, and the reason I think that is because even though he hates Barry, you got to remember who used to help Barry in season 1, and admitted that you could kill him if you really wanted to but he wants to see him grow, he could have come up with a different plan to go home and I think that's the reason she still does what he does is so that he can have a reason to be connected to a The Flash in any way shape or form not out of hatred, put out of admiration, keep in mind though he is a little bit crazy, considering that the only way he knows how to still be connected with the Flash, is to be the man that is his arch-nemesis there is a fine line between love and hate and I think that was the area between that line that's were Thawn thrives, it differs from moment to moment

1:46 the day I saw this I automatically remembered Batman begins where "I won't kill you, but I don't HAVE to save you". Just like Thawne doesn't HAVE to mess with Barry. That's his own choice. Also EVERYTIME Thawne is saved, innocents die. I'll be damned if I have that on my conscience.

If only Matt would have played Thawne again and did this. But at least this truly gives us the true main reason why he hates Barry and ended up killing his mother cause he ruined his chance to be like him

This is basically a watered down version of Thawne's origin in the comics, but it's still kind of interesting. In the comics, Thawne's origin invokes sympathy for him, but here, like Barry said, he's just a sociopath from the beginning. For context, in the comics, Thawne was an orphan, and he grew up feeling that the only good thing he had in his life was The Flash. The Flash was the hero he looked up to and the person he aspired to be someday. He manages to find a time capsule with The Flash's costume, which he uses to give himself powers (he does this by analyzing the residual amounts of Speed Force energy on the suit). After recreating the accident that turned Barry into The Flash and becoming a speedster, Thawne decides that he wanted to _be_ The Flash of the 25th century. The problem is, by the 25th century, crime had all but been eradicated. So instead, Thawne created "opportunities" for him to be a hero by putting people in danger, then saving them. Thawne honestly believed that he was honoring The Flash's legacy by doing this, not realizing how messed up it was. The people, not realizing that Thawne was one causing the danger, embraced him as The Flash of the 25th century. Cut to one day when The Flash (Barry Allen) himself time travels to the 25th century where Thawne lives, while testing the limits of his powers with regards to time travel (the tests are done using the Cosmic Treadmill). Barry had wanted to visit the future, since he really like Science Fiction (it was something he had in common with his mother). Thawne meets Barry and introduces himself as his biggest fan. I should note that, by this point, Barry hasn't solved his mother's murder case and doesn't know who really killed her. Upon meeting Thawne, Barry is honored and pretty much instantly acknowledges Thawne as The Flash of this time period, which Thawne sees as a blessing. Barry even offers to teach Thawne the ropes of how to use his powers to save people. This was everything Thawne had ever wanted and more. The two become good friends within the span of a single day. There's a moment where Thawne is trying to express his gratitude towards Barry, and trying to tell him that he wishes they had gotten to spend more time together, but can't seem to find the right words. Barry then puts the words together for him, saying "Every second is a gift." Thawne immediately replies, "That's it. Exactly." This will be important later on. As for Thawne, this was the happiest day of his life. To him, Barry Allen wasn't just a hero, but a true friend. Barry and Thawne continue to save people, with Barry not knowing that Thawne himself was the one creating dangerous situations for them to save people from. Unfortunately for Thawne, Barry catches on to what Thawne was doing and the two have a falling out. Barry sends Thawne to prison for all the disasters he caused. Thawne promises to get better and become the kind of hero that he'd be proud of. He realizes that what he'd done was wrong and dedicates his life to helping others. Thawne does his time in prison, gets therapy, and even teaches classes for the other inmates. He furthers his education during this time, to the level of a professor (specializing in history, particularly with regards to The Flash). He eventually convinces the authorities that he could be a more productive member of society as an educator. He starts to work at The Flash Museum as a professor, teaching people about The Flash's history. By this point, Thawne is no longer mentally ill and is actually a decent, normal person with a good moral compass. He works his way up the ladder and eventually becomes curator of The Flash Museum. It's around this time that Thawne decides that he's been rehabilitated enough to go see Barry again, in hopes of mending their friendship. Thawne makes a new costume that isn't red, because he feels that he hasn't _earned_ the right to call himself The Flash again. Instead, he wears a yellow costume, as that's what The Flash's _partners_ all wore (referring to the Kid Flash costume). He then travels back in time to the 21st century. One day, Barry's at the graduation ceremony of his nephew (Wally West) and gives Wally a watch as a gift. The watch has the phrase "Every second is a gift" engraved on its backside, which Barry tells Wally as he gives him the gift. Thawne sees this takes place and comes to the conclusion that Barry was a fake, superficial person, who says that line to everyone. He concludes that their friendship had been a complete lie. Thawne feels as if he'd been betrayed by his hero and runs back to the 25th century, completely devastated by what he'd just discovered. Barry had been the only real friend that Thawne ever had, only for Thawne to realize that Barry didn't actually care about him. He succumbs to despair and decides that he's going to spend the rest of his life making Barry feel just as broken as he felt. The next time Thawne meets Barry, he calls himself The Reverse-Flash, as he intends to be remembered as The Flash's greatest enemy.

Bro couldnt find another crowd to save, bro had to become an ultra villain

For those who don't read the comics. Thawne was Barry's biggest fan in the 25th century, so much so he gave himself superspeed and plastic surgery to make him just like his hero. He went back in time to meet the Flash, maybe even become his partner, but time travel disoriented him. He learned that Barry was destined to kill the Reverse Flash and while unknown in the 25th century, the 20th century knew the Reverse Flash was Eobard Thawne. He snapped...even believing himself to be Barry for a bit, before he was stopped by Wally West, the current Flash at the time. He tricked Thawne into going back to where he came from....not conscious of what he went through, but with a subconcious memory that the Flash will kill him and all the hate that goes with it His origin has been rewritten a couple of times since then, but I think this was such a classic origin and does the best of explaining Thawnes hatred

Love how his origin story is still close to how it originally happened in the comics. It was basically a "never meet your heroes" kind of origin

If only it was Matt Letscher saying all of this in this crossover

Thawne has been erased from the timeline so many times by now and somehow he’s still around

Eobard was written so brilliantly in the first season, coded really well as Barry's abusive father. As portrayed in season one, Thawne is a sociopathic narcissist who self actualizes by asserting control over the lives of those he professes to care about, leveraging power over them through both his speed and their love for him. Fantastically written not only as a villain who hates the hero, but as an abuser who is toxically dependent on his victim. It's very similar to Joker and Batman's toxic relationship, but with a more parental dynamic. Even more screwed up is that Thawne has traveled through time to become the architect of the defining moments of Barry's life. In season one, he and team flash are codependent, the perfect environment for him to self actualize as the puppetmaster of the season. Nowhere is this better expressed than in his final line: *"I've controlled your life for so long, Barry. How will you get along without me?"* Thawne's narcissistic need to control their lives ended with him being erased from their lives altogether. It was a *perfect* ending. But, if they were going to bring him back, they could have done more with this theme. As team Flash outgrows Thawne throughout the show, it should expose what a miserable and pathetic person he is - just like all abusers. That's why he doesn't actually want to "go home" as he liked to claim in the first season. Because abusers don't know how to be happy. And rather than seek rehabilitation, Thawne chases the closest thing to love and happiness he can understand: controlling Barry's life. This show reinterpreted the Reverse Flash as Barry's abusive father, and it was absolutely *brilliant.* Easily the best written villain in any of the CW shows, and frankly most superhero media in general. And now, they are writing him as a generic arch nemesis who hates Barry because he got jealous that Barry was more popular. It's depressing, man.

I have a strong feeling, Thawne is leaving A LOT of details behind. Just a theory, which I hope the CW develops towards the end of the season: Thawne was going to come out as the speedster who saved the people whom HE HIMSELF got in danger just to look like a hero. Then he gets faster, breaks space-time continuum to arrive at the Flash museum and realizes he is meant to become the Flash's biggest and pettiest villain lol

Things like this reminder me why I love this show serious season 1 vibes from this scene

Did anyone else find it extremely odd how Joe reacted to their decision on thus matter? He's the same guy that saw Thawte and immediately let off 3 round no questions asked but when Barry wanted to choose not to save him (which was very thoroughly justified) he throws a fit and says he's going to lose him as family? That scene blew my mind

"What you call rage i call commitment"

Now, It makes total sense. Even though Thawne tried to be a hero, he is still in the Flash's shadows for the rest of his life, so he come up in a solution with a vengeance....

The guy who played wells and thawne is just next level! Carried the show!

With this scene, the writers finally connected Thawne's bottomless envy and hatred of Barry with a line from way back in Season 1: "Nothing is forgiven." This is the great sin Thawne lays at Barry's feet: he stole his thunder. Note also that Thawne didn't say he knew he had to kill Barry after being robbed of his glory, he said he had to get faster. The homicidal hatred came later, when Thawne travelled through time and saw himself as the Flash's greatest enemy. All he wanted was to be like the hero he admired and not only was he robbed of that, fate itself condemned him to be the reverse. Great bit of subtle writing in this scene, fleshing out and unifying all of Thawne's motivations into a cohesive whole.

We needed to see that happen

Definitely missing some details here. In some version of the origin, Thawne learned about him through research, he copied the powers, he met Flash, they worked together, then he found out he was going to be the villain and it broke him. Some of this was already explained in season 2. Barry stealing Thawne's "moment" sounds like a PART of a larger origin.

This scene is just amazing in my opinion finding out why reverse flash hates him and him telling Barry if he saves him he’ll keep trying to find ways to kill him with a smile on his face knowing there’s a good chance Barry will still save him

So a lot of people are mentioning how Thawne tells Barry that, even if Barry saves him, Thawne will keep trying to destroy him. Personally, I see this as part of his plan. At the beginning of the episode, Thawne makes a point to ask Barry to save him *in front of witnesses*. Then, he spends the rest of the episode getting under the skin of Team Flash, showing them how evil he is, reminding them why they hate him. I think that his plan was for Team Flash to let him die. Or, at least, he was prepared for that to be the case. If Barry had let him die, then everyone would know that he had chosen to do that, even after he was asked to save Thawne’s life. The Flash’s image as a noble hero and symbol of hope would be ruined, because the world would know him as the man who let someone who had asked him for help die. So, even if Thawne died, he would have died knowing that he had won, that he had defeated The Flash. I don’t know, maybe I’m thinking too deeply about this, but Thawne was always the planner, the one who saw a hundred moves ahead, so it makes sense to me that his plan would go further than simply asking his worst enemy for help.

A hero wouldn't have cared who saved the crowd, as long as they were saved.

Joker and Eobard have to be the most intriguing villains.

"What you call rage, I call a sigma grindset."

"What you call rage, I call commitment" - Thawne

Thawne should've said that discovering speed was his life's work, in a time when the flash had been long forgotten. Speed was a mystery, and he was about to show the world his discovery. Then, the flash, in his righteousness, came in and sped around, helped people. Suddenly, Thawne's entire life meant nothing. THAT's what drove Thawne to hate him. They just belittled him here by making him a sociopath. There are other ways to show he's crazy, he's also a genius and they have to retain that

This ties to what the younger Thawne told Barry on S2 Being bested and "humiliated" by his hero sent him on a path of toxic and constant improvement, fueled by rage and eventually learning/accepting that he was destined to be a villain

This is better than the original explanation of “I hate you because I couldn’t be you” but it’s still not exactly a good origin story.

There I thought He went batshit crazy because of time loop were Eobard genuinely wanted to help people and meets the Flash for the first time, assists him, but Flash treats him awfully and he discovers how he is destined to be his nemesis which leads to him snapping and and deciding if I can't be Flash I will becomes his reverse while Barry upon meeting Eobard (from Thawnes perspective for the first time) Barry KNOWS THAWNE and what he did to his mother and treats him awfully because of his future actions. This could have created a causal paradox where the reason Eobard is Reverse-Flash is Barry treating him like trash while the reason Barry treats him like trash is because he is Reverse-Flash, but we got this

I love that they used his comic book origin perfectly

This is probably the best they’ve ever done with explaining Reverse-Flash’s motives and origin. Usually I would say it’s a stupid reason to hate someone to that extent, and it is, but here Barry actually acknowledges that. He acknowledges that only a sociopath would react like that for something so small, and that’s what I like. It just shows how crazy and obsessive Thawne actually is.

I think I know how their story will end. Like in the comics, Barry might change the timeline so Thawne never discovered and got his speed and he would go on to be a Flash Museum curator. That would be very nice.

Not sure if you guys notice that Thawne wink at Barry when he said, Finding a new ways to kill him. 2:14

It's a shame that we never got to see that moment play out. Because I'm going to bet there was more to that crowd than he lets on. In the comics, he had acquired his speed, because there was no crime in this utopia, he set up crises to boost his reputation; he started fires, he created calamities, and then to zoom in and save the day, and be hailed as a hero. That is, however, until Barry busted him. That could be the humiliation that he's talking about. Thawne NEVER reveals the full spectrum.

"Don't you have anything better to do than destroy my life?" Spoken like a man who is f*cking DONE. 😂

I love how thawne is so honest when he said he would just find new ways to kill Barry after Barry asked what he’d do if he saved him

I keep watching this video over and over. I seriously need a Flash Movie with Grant and Tom. Their chemistry is so good. I just want to see them on the big screen one time. ❤️💛

I’ve been waiting for this moment since season 1 but I just couldn’t after season 5. I really tried to get back into it with season 6 and I just gave up all hope. Now finally I see why in whatever the frick this season is.

I love this Flash Season 5 Soundtrack.

"Only a sociopath would react to something so small with that kind of rage."

Twayne: it was me Barry.

isnt this like the 35th time Thawne has monologued why he hates Flash??

The exchanges between the Reverse and Barry when they are alone are the best thing about this show.

Tom Cavanaugh as Thawne is the single best thing about the flash tv show. I like their portrayal of Barry for the most part (he has his flaws and the writing isn't great) but man the Reverse Flash is incredible.

1:32 i can make so many tiktok’s outta this bro

I didn't knew season 8 started airing 😫but I am glad now I have 5 episodes to watch until the new one comes 😜

Thanwe is definitely leaving out more than a few details. In the comics, Thawne staged crimes to make himself look like a hero. Barry saw this and tried to set Thawne straight when he went into the future. When you think about it, he cares about looking like the hero more than anything. He set himself up as Harrison Wells to set things up while looking like an inspirational scientist when in truth he ruined more lives than we probably know. When he used the Spear of Destiny, he used it to also be the boss of Star Labs once again and be responsible for making the world great when in reality, he made it worse in the first place. He looked like an atoning villain on Death Row when he manipulated Barry's daughter, Nora, to make a serial killer emerge earlier, escape death row, have Nora wiped out of existence, and have Crisis come earlier. His recent scheme had him taking Barry's life, killing other heroes, and helping villains like Damien remain in power or stay evil with none the wiser. Thanwe really can't be a hero or anything like the real Flash. He knows this and hates himself for it. He will never truly be the Flash, so he has done all this to change the meaning of what being the Flash really means.

I really hope to see Barry travel to the future and meet younger Thawne. I’m guessing it’ll either be letscher or someone who’s supposed to look like a younger letscher

Coming back to this show is bringing alot of nostalgic memories from 2015.. :( sad that it's ending

"My name is Eobard Thawne, and I am the quietest man alive"

2:01 And that's why you will always lose and be lost, Eobard. And as I said in an earlier comment, there has to be a lot more to this accusation. Even if there isn't, Barry just did what he was meant to do which was to save people. It was no insult directed at you at all. And to be honest you should've been ecstatic to see the actual flash in the flash two centuries after he died standing in front of you. Your hero standing right there. That's how I know there is more to this story you're putting forward. And you can't help yourself. You have to be the exact mirror image of your chosen nemesis. Knocking on the force field, putting your hands behind your back as Barry is doing. It's like you have no life at all of your own. No identity of your own. YOU'RE EVEN WEARING SOMEONE ELSES FACE BC OF HIS CONNECTION TO THE FLASH!And much like the fact you are being erased from the timeline right now, you brought all of this on yourself. That's what obsession and revenge are. Unending and completely self-destructive.

"Don't you have anything better to do?" basically what we have all been asking

I love when this two talk with each other :)

1:54 “what you call rage, I call commitment.” Idk why but this quote stuck with me the most

I'm guessing we're not gonna touch on the part of his origin where he went back, but went to the time when Barry was dead and Wally was Flash, only to then find out that not only does he become his idol's worst enemy, but finds out Barry kills him at some point, and then ends up fighting with Wally.

The monumental pettiness of this man is appalling. He has genius, determination, he could have made great contributions to humanity in so many ways. Instead he threw it all away on a vendetta because Barry Allen stepped on his moment.

Very petty indeed which is what makes him a dangerous and great villain.

IT WAS ME, BARRY.

Again, this one scene from season 8 is better than the entirety of some of the previous flash seasons. I’m glad there stepping it up

"my goals are beyond your under..." Oh wait wrong season

This gave me some season 1 tingles

0:41 I love Thawne's face here, "oh shit, thats right, he probably thinks im just some asshole, i never told him"

Thawne has been whispering since season 1 ep 1 bro, I just can’t with this show 😹

2:01 What you called the rage … I call that the Rage Red Lanterns

His motivation is very petty.... Despite being extreme threat he is still saturday morning cartoon villain ;D

Thawne packing, and Barry looking at it

His comic backstory is better. Thawne wanted to be part of Flash’s life because he was his biggest fan. When he realized he was simply nothing to him, not the partner that the Kid Flash was, he wanted revenge. Not only to ruin Flash’s life to make him suffer, but doing this was the only way he’d ever actually spend time with him. It’s kinda sad actually.

Here's the thing, unless Thawne recovers his speed, this is the most powerful we ever see him at. Barry has defeated the oldest Thawne across the timeline now. Any potential encounters with him in the future (that are of his past self), if even possible, will be NOTHING compared to his past encounters with Thawne.

"why did you create a reverse flashpoint and steal my life" "you mean another reverse flashpoint, don't you?"

Which episode 🤔

I've never gotten into the show but watch here and there and I have to this storyline reminds me a lot of The Incredibles. How a fan wants to be like their idol but it becomes twisted and turns to hate for the hero and a desire to see them fall. While also seeking out glory so they'll be seen as a hero by others. No matter who gets hurt in the process.

That man more committed to Barry than his own wife. 😂

They both acted incredibly in this seen.

The beginning where Barry taps the field twice and then thawn does the same gave me chills 😮‍💨

I really wish they had incorporated the origin where Eobard discovers he is destined to become the reverse flash and then goes mad as a result because that is the most tragic origin in my opinion

Wow…Despite Tom Cavanaugh being an excellent Reverse Flash, I had hoped his hatred for Barry would be a bit less petty. Eric Wallace sux.

Thawne is literally the most petty person in history. He’s angry his idol, someone he looked up to and admired, saved people and outshone him, so he murdered his mother to make him suffer. That is very, very petty of him. He’s nothing but an overreacting fanboy with sociopathic tendencies Edit: also, if you think this is petty, the comics take this up to a million. In the show, Thawne genuinely wants to kill Barry. In the comics, he can’t without risking his timeline as well, so he’ll do anything to make his life a living hell instead, and he did it in very childish ways, like pushing him down the stairs so he’ll break his arm, make his dog get run over by a car, etc. even killing his mom was just to screw with him, not because he couldn’t kill him. Seriously, look up what Thawne has done to Barry in the comics, the show makes him more mature in that he wants to kill Barry Edit 2: I know people have a problem with this “retconning” what Thawne said in season 2, but it really doesn’t. He says he wanted to get faster than Barry after he “humiliated” him, but he probably didn’t want to kill him. Not until he traveled in time and learned he was destined to be his idols biggest rival. Then he decided to make his life’s work to kill Barry

He’s so petty- I love it 😂

If he was bald he would look just like one punch man

This scene reminds me of their conversation back in S1 so iconic

i was wondering why rf hates BA so much but in season 7 they say he did negative speedforce so the emotions he felt must have been negative so for RF the moment the flash stole RF felt even more humiliating than it should besides it's BA's fault because kadabra said that in the future he is fussy about the future

It was me, Barry.