The Best Waterproof Membranes/Fabrics Compared - Will's World 

for heavy rain there is simply solution rain poncho or umbrella ,everything else is overpriced compromis

Longevity is a huge issue with modern outdoor gear. Lightness is the enemy of longevity and we all like light. I had a 3-layer Goretex Mammut jacket for 17 years before it became leaky in downpours. Next I had a lightweight Montane Minimus Pertex Shield2 and that lasted 18 months before it was just a windproof. Marvellous when new but hopeless lifetime. Currently trying a Rab 3-layer goretex (Kangri) which is in-between in weight (and cost). We shall see how long that lasts.

I don't profess to know better or worse concerning the materials but I have been using this link as a guide. I think this was the idea you were speaking of. www.sierra.com/lp2/waterproof-guide/?osid=prodspec-bg

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-dtCdQfbLw7o.html This is what you're looking for.

Yes this is why I clicked the video, I was expecting some actual real world testing. Instead it was just 3 guys going off anecdotes.

Thanks Joe. Hope you found it useful. Will

In debth ..not columbia out dry is best waterproof msterial technology ,let down with poor designed jackets

Hi Andrew, He's wearing a sample jacket from Gore, one that demonstrates all three versions of the new Gore-Tex Pro. Unfortunately I don't think it's ever been on the market. Best, Will

Yes, probably worth including in our next chat on the topic. I think they've actually toughened it up in the last year. Might be wrong though. Will

Interesting, never heard of it. Just looked that one up, now all I found so far are just some basic super light men's cycling jackets. Last time I bought one of these ultra light jacket (pack-lite) the inner layer worn out in no time. When it comes to "durability' it definitely is subject to personal interpretation. What a hiker or backpacker calls durable isn't what a rock climber will call durable. People often confuse the DWR coating durability to the actual membrane durability. In your comment at least DWR is out of the picture but I am absolutely not convinced about the durability of these shakedry product. Considering resistance to abrasion and constant friction against other material or structure. Frankly as I fish in the pacific northwest and go after salmon even when we have weather hazard warning. (70kmph wind, 70-100mm of rain) I am still out there in the middle of the storm for hours. I'd spend 6 to 8 hours fishing on regular rainy days. Actually wading around, getting the jackets to dip in the river and all. So I'd be happy to have an option for breathability and resistance to abrasion, I can't really hope for much in terms of DWR but I can tell you that if the zippers or seams aren't done properly, I'll find out very quickly! I rarely see anyone diving super deep in the details of the YKK zipers. They all say "aquaguard" or sometime aquaseal. Yet there are so many aspects of zippers that fall under there categories. Also who's going to cover the "Cordura vs Nylon" the twisting of the treading and all the real fabric engineering that actually make a difference between a membrane that's going to be well protected vs a membrane that is layered with lightweight, yet super weak material, lots of cycling folks are complaining about the shakedry's wear and tear, they all say it's a wonderful product and performs super well except that you need a new one every 6 months (again, brands are supposed to design and engineer around the membrane). Lightweight shell is cool, practical and easy to wear, would I consider taking that sailing or some of the rugged river fishing spot I go to, probably not. Mustang (EP 6.5 OCEAN RACING) is the "overkill" jacket like you wouldn't belive, how much do you hear about it in reviews or anything? NEVER but it's the toughest jacket I've ever experienced. Would I take it skiing or trail running? No but I'll take that out sailing or fishing during rain storm any day! When I search around RU-vid or the internet about the membrane and jackets geeks. I always see the same, we all own 5 jackets or more and still looking for that ONE hell of a jacket that would combine all the tech together. Bottom line is, there is none, the membrane is a choice to be made, the whole difference comes with what the jacket brand's design and engineering team is going to do around the membrane. I still don't even take my Acrteryx alpha SV out fishing, wouldn't trust my N_F summit to sustain the volume of water I face while fishing, and yet I don't like how weak the dedicated fishing rain jackets are only with only half ass engineered outer layers of 50 or 70N-Denier and costing the price of high end jackets.

Sympatex>gortex

Outdry Extreme is a tech from Columbia correct? So are you saying it way more advance than goretex/futurelight?

I have multiple Futurelight jackets. All bought with >50% discount in the TNF Outlet or at online retailers. I'm super fond of he Flight Series jacket that's very thin and packable, super breathable and fully waterproof, even in big downpours with heavy wind. It lives my bag on days with mostly fair weather and I put it on when it starts to rain, so really as a rainshell with amazing breathability. So much so that you don't notice that you're actually wearing a jacket. I can't use it with a backpack. I also have other Futurelight jackets, the Impendor, Tente, Dryzzle Insulated Futurelight/Ventrux Combo. The Impendor works fine for hikes without a 4kg+ backpack. Made of Polyester it's less durable than the heavier Nylon versions. Great breathability, and less fragile than the thin Flight Series jacket. The Tente didn't last even one downpour as it immediately started wetting through. That's what I read often in Futurelight jackets user reviews, quite a lot of jackets fail within the first few uses in wet conditions, a manufacturing quality issue rather than a fabric quality issue. I sent it to TNF under warranty, was told it wasn't repairable and as the Tente was no longer available I received a replacement Flex Futurelight jacket. I subsequently sold the Flex Futurelight jacket as it was to similar to the Impendor Futurelight but warmer and becease of the very nice inner liner slightly heavier whilst I prefer a shell to be just protecting from wet and windy conditions, without adding weight for insulation. It impressed as a super comfortabele autumn wet weather jacket but as it was completely new I prefered to sell it and keep the Impendor. Ever though I prefer a waterproof jacket not to be insulated st the same time, I must say I really enjoy wearing the Futurelight/Ventrix combo jacket as well which is great for hiking in say -2°C - 8°C and (windy) weather with showers of rain. You feel again like almost not wearing a jacket because it's extremely good at keeping you dry and extremely breathable. In similar weather with less rain I'd wear my Active Insulated jacket (Style Patagonia Nano Air, Arc'teryx Atom LT) but the Futurelight/Ventrix combo is perfect when I expect heavier rain showers (In continuous rain it'd be a Gore Tex hardshell) With the Tente Futurelight jacket missing I still didn't have my desired (hopefully) durable rugged Futurelight hardshell so I just ordered a Champang Futurelight jacket with Nylon fabric at 52% discount, for use as a durable rugged and extremely breathable hardshell jacket for alpine hiking with a backpack. All of the Futurelight jackets I've worn have EXTREMELY good breathability and all but the Tente survived every weather that was thrown at them, including the dry + sunny weather where you'd normally take of the hardshell but no need because of the amazing breathability. You just have to keep in mind to test their waterproofness/manufacturing quality in a downpour BEFORE taking of all the tags and use them for what they should be: Waterproof Hardshell jackets. Two relatives own the Dryzzle Futurelight. They are both really happy with it, but I find the fabric to rigged and noisy. My Impendor is much suppler, thinner and softer. The Flex had also a much more comfortable fabric than the Dryzzle. If you want a jacket that can handle days of continuous rain, alpine conditions and the best durability, Gore Tex (Pro) is probably still the better option, but maybe the Chamlang jacket will prove me wrong. With Futurelight still not as well known as Gore Tex and TNF having so many different models in their Futurelight range, with every season new colours and models, it's very easy to find extremely discounted items if you're patient, especially compared to Gore Tex jackets where especially the €300+ models hardly ever get more than 25% discounted. That's how I ended with so many Futurelight jackets, and till now I'd recommend them all over a similarly priced Gore Tex jacket, as long as you keep in mind to test their manufacturing quality thoroughly before common use. My warranty claim with the Tente was handled swift and fair. I'd probably give a wholy different recommendation if it were otherwise..

Hey Irvine. It's a Gore-tex prototype to demonstrate their latest Gore-tex Pro developments. The 66 North Hornstrandir is very, very similar. Here's my review of that jacket: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-T6LMWiqj39U.html

Yes it should not enter the bibs as the membrane works well. But under extreme conditions it can if the seams aren't sealed well or you're heavy etc.

Dryvent is not even on the same planet as gortex and futurelight

My north face venture 2 jacket made with dryvent 2.5L is definitely waterproof but the breathability is almost none existent. I now use it on my motorbike when it rains and even then I still get some condensation on the inside. My goretex jacks are far superior in breathability but you do still get some condensation. However I’ve noticed with goretex the condensation seems to come and go. I’ve just bought a futurelight jacket so I’m hoping for the big jump I’m breathability.

@@supersnebz392 so how is it so far?

@@equinoxcae6799 so far it hasn’t leaked and the breathability is excellent

@@supersnebz392 happy to hear that ! Thanks for the update !

Yeh probably deserved a mention actually. We've got a video on a Dermizax membrane jacket here in case of interest: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9Da64GTFne8.html&feature=emb_title

I used neoshell for a few years but switched to Toray's Dermizax NX. In my experience it's like a more waterproof & breathable version of neoshell. It's soft, stretchy and doesn't rustle. It's comfortable to wear and highly waterproof. Breathability feels similar to my older Mountain Hardwear DryQ elite shell (around 40k MTVR) while being more durable. It's less air permeable than neoshell so more comfortable in windy conditions. Bergans make some great 3L dermizax NX shells such as the Slingsby and the Rabot 3L. Its also featured in some mega money ski brands such as Kjus. Toray let other manufacturers use their fabrics as own brand high-end membranes so they haven't really promoted Dermizax as a brand in the way Gore. I haven't tried futurelight but TNF customer care let me down twice in the last 3 years so I'd need to be very convinced of its durability (which I'm not yet) . I've also tried a light running shell from Haglofs that had amazing breathability. 50k+ MTVR. They seem to be improving their own PU membrane hugely. I believe they work with Toray also.

YES.

No not if it the pores get cloged why sympatex better

Hi David, it's a sample that Gore-Tex sent us to demonstrate their new fabric. It's not something that will end up in stores - at least I don't think so anyway. Will

@@OutdoorsMagicTV What a tease! I just wasted 10 minutes searching for a Gore Wear jacket just iike it.

Hi. It's from our team's ski mountaineering trip in the Alps. Can get the name of specific peak from my colleague if you'd like. Will

@@OutdoorsMagicTV Hi, many thanks for the reply. That would be great if you could. Just such a spectacular shot both ascetically and technically. Loved it!

@@MrRwccwr It's here: www.altituderando.com/Tete-de-la-Toura-2914m

@@OutdoorsMagicTV Wonderful, thank you so much. You should put together a short piece with more of that footage 🏔🎥

Hey - here's my take on that new fabric from HH: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-B_lkW8n0bcU.html Will

@@OutdoorsMagicTV I ve seen that but wanted your opinion when compared to gore tex pro in terms of durability.

@@SPYROSMANTZAKOS Oh right. I'd say Helly Hansen's new fabric is actually much tougher. I wouldn't say the water resistance was good as it tends to be on a new Gore-Tex Pro jacket. But then, over time, I'd expect the Helly Hansen to win (in the water repellency stakes) in the long run as Gore-Tex Pro's DWR tends to wear out pretty quickly in my experience. I haven't had a chance to use any Nikwax on my HH yet - would be very curious to see the effect it has. Will

@@OutdoorsMagicTVi tend to agree on that. I would really love to see a long term review after some months or year, on the new lifa membrane and how it holds up. You have the best video review on the membrane until know!

@Spyros Mantzakos I'll see If I can do a long-term follow up review at some point. Would definitely be worth it I reckon. 👍

He's wearing a sample jacket from Gore, one that demonstrates all three versions of the new Gore-Tex Pro. Unfortunately I don't think it's ever been on the market. Will

@@OutdoorsMagicTV ok wow. Exclusive. 😔I really liked it. Thanks, very quick response. 👍🏽

You stepped away from membranes because they needed constant reproofing, but went towards Paramo instead?! I have 5 or 6 garments from Paramo and hate how much effort I have to put into those to keep me dry. Without the Nikwax proofing my jackets wet out extremely fast even after all Tech Wash stuff, without constant reproofing, they are better windproofs unfortunately

The issue I have with your analysis is that it concerns fabric, not the membrane, which is what GoreTex (and the others) are focused on here: how waterproof/breathable/flexible are the garments that use these waterproof membranes. Put another way, GorTex Pro can be married to the same nylon shell fabric (where the DWR goes) as FutureLight or NeoShell.

you're doing something very wrong if any of those jackets only lasted 3 weeks..

@@bjornegan6421 I just wear them !!!

@@gregors.5734 You’re the first person ever who has multiple branded fabrics fail in three weeks, that’s a world record! DWR wears off from sweaty oily fabrics. Maybe you have hyperhidrosis? For everyone else proper reapplication of DWR coat once in a while will give a many years of service. GoreTex is known for delimitation problem but others that have their own Neoshell spinoffs are durable.

There is nothing wrong with plastics derived fabrics when it’s from recycled plastics. We need to recycle the endless supply of plastics in our planet.

I want to know, too!😊

Hi. Here's a vid that shows my experiment. outdoorsmagic.com/article/are-paramos-nikwax-jackets-actually-waterproof-wills-world/

I find the fabric needs regular Nikwax maintenance but yeh, I'm a big fan of that. Will

Waterproof OR water-repellant?

Yes some brand riain jacket are labeled Water resistance and that only works for light rain and wind proof and some are waterproof and windproof and Breathable and some are packable in a tube sack of both water resistant jacket and pants and breathable and those are considered a summer hot rain suit .

If it a $200. Dollars or $300. Dollars Fishing Tournament Gore-Tex waterproof jacket and bibs I would used "ATSKO Sport-wash made by Sno-Seal Laundry detergent," just added 2 cap filled lid and used cold water laundry in washer and dryer to low setting to dry both jacket and pants and do another low heat setting to drying fully . Or if you can find " Nikwax laundry detergent retreatment rainproof and body odor eliminator wash ," might work I know I have been using it for years in 1990 I have had Gore-Tex waterproof jacket and worn it out and grew up too big to fit me as a kid .

Dwr wears off. You've actually helped clog up the membrane using soap as it leaves residues.

sdnalyam what do they use?

@@Bushwacked487 . They use a windshirt ,was Epic by Nextec, silicone encapsulated thread, and Polartec Alpha Direct. They also have a non breathable jacket for heavy rain when not moving. The system works like the UK Buffalo and other pile pertex systems but is better suited to warmer weather. Part of the test was to be fully submerged while crossing a river in winter and not stopping to change clothing but to keep patrolling. Natick Labs and others carried out the research. You can try it out yourself by using a windshirt and Polartec Alpha Direct against the skin. Adjust the thickness etc depending on your metabolism.

I have a sympatex purple ultimate coat from 80s90s still the best coat I've ever used and it's like 20 30+ years still great a little tlc needed... I did a lot of mountain biking with it for couple of years I was amazed how well it keeps Wind off waterout you warm but feels like your skin can breathe and not sweat get to hot as well happier planet seas🌿 can't go wrong with sympatex no pores as well vains soo no clogging like gortex do...