I absolutely love how not only do you regularly ask Romero questions about obscure and specific things in a game that’s almost 30 years old, but that he actually regularly answers! He’s such a nice dude
Lately he has been streaming on Twitch under TheRomero, he's building Sigil 2 maps. His music is godlike and it's a very chill vibe. He's a really cool dude.
"People give Romero crap for having an ego, but when this dude was like 21 he made the f***ing video game equivalent of Thriller." - CV-11, stimpak helmet torture mascot and based ass dude
Fun fact: in the GBA port of Doom 2, they managed to fix this secret! But inadvertently, they broke the teleporter by doing so. You win some, you lose some.
Ah, I remembered this level was in the GBA version (though I think it got split into two parts?), but wasn't in many of the other console-versions of that era. I guess I'd rather have the secret work than the teleport, given @Decino says you can get to the area it takes you to via normal-means anyway
@@dftfire Yeah, they split it into two and actually added a unique section to the beginning of the second part. It's not long, but exclusive to that port! And yeah, it's better that the secret works, though I think there's several other secrets you can't get in that port :D It's pretty broken in itself.
@@GermanPeter The GBA DOOM II, if I recall right, was not the DOOM Engine, but something called "SouthPaw" (or similar). So they essentially ported the levels, sprites, music and SFX over, but then had to make the AI, weapons, enemies and so-on all mimic DOOM II. And it has that major-bug where your armour does not work in a level until you first collect an armour-bonus, I recall.
Speaking as a software tester it's amazing the DOOM developers had no QA and yet managed to release a game so good and with only a few oddball bugs like this.
It's even more brutal considering that PE is technically spawning a flaming skull inside the player and all to figure out "a puzzle", this is some Xenomorph/Hellraiser crossover nightmare fuel :)
We all know who was really behind it: the pain elemental. He wanted to feel useful, so he programmed John's mind to make the secret. Pain elemental didn't account for humanity's limited intelligence though, and it took decades to figure out.
Excellent summary, and great to know that John Romero was just being a silly guy and people were taking him too seriously. I always knew he had a sense of humor about stuff like this.
I do love there's some "gotta hand it to humanity, when they're bored, they'll make it their damnedest to make something work, until it doesn't or vice versa. ... or maybe go insane along the way trying"
he got a kick out of replying with that response because he knew he's talking to a community of fucking nerds who struggle with straightforward social behaviour lmfao
Thanks for the great video decino, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to draw your merch! It was a blast working on it and you ain't that bad of an artist yourself! I won't lie that 3:55 and 6:10 made me extremely happy :)
I love these "what goes on behind the scenes in the engine code" videos, being a computer science major and programmer in college, these are one of the most delicious ones! ❤
Yeah... I'm not a coder, but many of them I can follow. It would be great if he ever did a comparison between some of the code-differences between some of the console-ports of DOOM from the 90s and the DOS originals. Be interesting to know what some of the differences are, as I'd guess for the consoles parts of the code had to be re-written to further optimise it, and reduce complexity? And I think Jaguar DOOM (which most other versions were built-from) is something like v1.4 of the DOOM Engine, I think? So when DOOM2 came to PlayStation and Saturn, what was done there? Did they code-in the new enemy behaviours and AIs on-top-of the Jaguar code, or was it a fresh port from a later version of the DOS DOOM code?
huge, MAGNANIMOUS ups to jon romero and others of the OG id team for still being active in the communities they spawned and answering questions from fans decades later.
You probably get this a lot, but my favourite thing about your videos is how you make a little custom map to demonstrate almost every concept you talk about. Even when it's as simple as like, a big long room with one enemy at the other end to demonstrate weapon spread, it makes a massive difference to understanding what all those numbers mean when they're actually crunched by the engine. Also: good to hear you've been taking time to rest! Burnout is real and it can really sneak up on you, especially with self-employment-type stuff like RU-vid. And honestly, it's kinda worse if the thing that's burning you out is also "supposed to be" fun. So cheers to you!
Soooooo this secret was almost entirely unobtainable if a pain elemental was never originally placed on this map during its creation. That's how close this secret was to never being obtainable.
It's not only a deathmatch thing, I suppose. I'm quite sure that the teleport pad is marked as a secret as a hidden method of easily traversing between the two parts of the map separated by the massive moat of magma in between, should you feel any need to cross the moat once again but need a much easier and safer method to do so. Also, I haven't ever considered a combat armor crop top / bra on Doom guy, so thanks a bunch for burning that image into my head.
It's the second time I ate all the playlist for the analysis videos in a row, it's nice to see a new video for the list. There's something relaxing in his speech and the comedy is top quality. John Romero did us dirty for 24 years straight lmao
I suppose one potential use of this could be to fall down a long distance near instantly. Does it still happen if you're in the air? Oh god, someone could use this as a way to make you dodge cyber rockets in a tight corridor. Sounds like rng hell, but it could be done.
Also happens when you're in the air. The "feature" has potential for sure for a very gimmicky map. I show a quick proof of concept before the outro section.
Ok now everything makes sense- the fact that it accidentally skips an entire check that updates the player's height is an hilarious solution on it's own- is also interesting to see how the doom code is organized, I think the way you showcased the functions like folders where you go deeper and deeper into the content is really neat! thank you decino :D Now the real question is...how in the loving hell did zero master found this out???
Figuring out how it works when you can reproduce it every time and have access to the source code is pretty much guaranteed. My respect is for the guy who imagined how it *could* work.
I was always interested in learning how this secret trigger worked, thank you so much for the in-depth explanation. It made it real easy to understand what makes it tick. I really do wonder if someone will sneak it into a megaWAD now!
The sequence in which the engines analyze and calculate things going on in games is a neverending source of funnies and derps. It's so rigid that you literally can't fathom how an obscure interaction can go wrong before testing in real time. Computers are wacky.
Thanks for another great and indepth analysis video! Very interesting to finally understand how this secret works exactly. Even though I 'performed' the secret earlier this year, I honestly had no idea the opening/closing door was a part of triggering it 😅 Also, I can vouch for the merch! 😎
There's a reason why Doom is like "2.5" cause it does have like 3D space, just not 3D models and such. Like if I remember correctly, these line based engines render 2D level data as 3D environments
@@hi-i-am-atan we could also consider Doom's 3D as a special case of the "real 3D", just like Newtoniam mechanics can be thought as a special case for the more generalized relativistic Einsteinian space-time - for what it is supposed to do it works just fine :)
Oh, it's been a while since we had some good old explanatory video. And just when I started to think this way BOOM! It shows up. Perhaps, other fans were more vocal with their thoughts, I guess. Well, while I am not going to repeat that achievement myself, Igor some strange feel of joy. Pretty much the same feeling I got when read about making of Aliens by J.Cameron and his team. How they were filming stuff, mixing explosives for special effects, creating the weaponry, training the actors with royal marines. And, of course, props to patrons. I'm so glad that Beaks and Pain are still around. Oh, this midi... An extra pleasure.
Decino, your analysis vids are some of the best Doom content around, period. I look forward to every one of these. I also get the fact that they can be really time-consuming (your work ethic shows clearly here), and so I'm glad that you're being mindful of your time and energy in terms of what types of content you do and when. Keep up the awesome work. Also, that ARCH shirt design is great!
You did very good decino, in addresing all the limitations the iD guys had when making maps! Sometimes when you play the game and see stuff, for example, pinkies blocking each ohter (for being placed in the same exact spot) you are like "hey, how could the devs do this? That is so lame/cheap of them" but knowing the context gives you a whole different POV. Yes, those mistakes aren't cool, but it's pretty likely thay any of us would have commited the same mistakes (under those circumstances) Now 4 a different topic: 11:04 this mad me remember that in one ocassion Coincident experimented something similar but with a Radiation Suit Zone 300's MAP13
I love the flashbacks I get watching these videos. Not understanding how the little secret trigger thing worked at the time I spent hours lining myself up at a 1 or 2 degree angle and lightly tapping forward trying to trigger those unobtainable secrets. 😅
Very interesting and very cool! This was worth the wait. So, if the secrets were triggered by just checking if the player bounding box is overlapping any part of a secret sector, regardless of height, would that fix the various broken secrets in Doom 2, Ultimate Doom, etc.? It looks like the requirement for the player origin to actually touch the secret sector is what makes the secrets in E4M3, MAP15, and MAP27 problematic.
Consistently love the way you dismantle these bugs piece by piece to find which interactions cause them, then rebuild them in a test level so we can see exactly what's going on at every step. DOOM itself might be old, but there's a wealth of game design and QA skills to be learned from it, and YOU are helping to make that knowledge available Pumpkin Man! Keep it up!
The pain elemental is my second favorute demon in the game, just behind the Cyberdemon. Just... Look at him. His thematic conception (Or as people call it, the lore) is that it's a creature constantly in pain and suffering, knowing nothing more than torment and spawning angry souls... But it's just so HAPPY all the time. Like a little grandpa going on a morning walk in early fall to buy some cupcakes from the bakery his beloved wife owns, because he wants to surprise her. Look at his walk animation. He's so cute.
Good thing there is a pain elemental on this map, otherwise we would never get this gem. And of course major props to Zero Master for discovering and you ducino for making another banger video. Btw 6:50 very cute model for showing off merch, makes me want to find a "epic doom gf"
@@E5raelNot sure if trolling, but Coincident is their name, "[Is this a] coincidence?" is what I meant. Just trying to make more sense and provide correct information. Now, if I'd said "Decino eating a face rocket... Coincident?" 😅
@@ji604 I knew his name is Coincident, not Coincidence. 😉 I was just being "dyslexic" for the sake of a lame joke, hence the "yours sincerely" part to hammer the joke home.
These are the videos I love most! Don't get me wrong, I love the gameplay videos since I often get to learn about new WADs I've never heard of and I just enjoy watching you play Doom. I also enjoy the live-streams and watching you play insane multiplayer maps and challenging, grindy maps for hours on end. But these behind-the-scenes looks at the code and why the game works the way it does are what drew me to the channel in the first place and are infinitely fascinating to me and I love the little tidbits you add to the video like the little sound effects and subtle details like John Romero winking at us! These are truly great and endlessly entertaining and I am always excited when I see you've released a new one! Keep up the great work with these awesome behind-the-scenes videos and stay safe out there!
Fun facy: the A R C H shirt has a small chance to induce a small ptsd attack in classic doom players, the easiest way to see this is to use a TAS and manipulate the rng table correctly
Your analysis and gameplay videos have kept my constant interest in this decades old game, and have inspired me to try my hand at making my own maps for it! Thanks for making them, I always look forward to learning more about this absolute classic!
Ive seen people who respond to the knowledge of that email with the response "So many people were probably sending him Emails to ask about it that he just felt peer pressured into saying that. He really did do it as a joke."
Your analysis videos are always great. Very informative, and edited just enough to be amusing without being distracting. The single tick door and pain elemental sounds got me.
Decino you make some of the best vids on RU-vid ever you can make minutes feel like seconds, I wish you a great new year and I can’t wait for more awesome videos
I was just watching your Analysis playlist last night hoping you'd do another one. Looking forward to this video! Any chance at an analysis of other 90s fps titles? I figure Doom only has so many topics.
Another idea for an analysis video is how secrets get removed from levels because of a mapping oversight. Requiem's Level 29 has an example of this - which can also be subverted by an Arch Vile jump
Great video like always, decino. It's pretty cool to understand these small little errors that result into great accomplishments. I hope you have a good time, pumpkin man!
1:03 Ffs I just started this and I almost choked on my pizza 🤣. ADD: it's actually hard to believe people believed John when he made the statement, of course it was just an oversight (albeit a big one, given 100%-ing games was kind of a big thing back then). Mech's looking alright, Arch shirt's tempting.
Congrats on the merch store launch! 🥳 And thanks for facing the elemental pain of editing this video without becoming a burned out lost soul. It must have felt like touching a long-hidden, obscure secret. OK, I'll stop 😇
Doom 2, new enemies that influenced and created a timeless experience put together in less than a year. No QA and no beta testers. Diablo 4. Can't increase stash slots because the coding is so shit it has to load everyones stash. All enemies are the same. 6 Years+ and a team hundreds of times bigger than ID. decino, Patron saint of dooming - Does all his video stuff himself without a team, or help from his dog. He even has a store that sells stickers. And let's be honest that Archvile shirt is metal.
Always love these analysis videos, so I'm very happy to see a new one for the first time in a hot minute. I distinctly remembered this secret being brought up during the speedrun completion videos, so it was pretty neat to come back to it and get a proper explanation on why having a lost soul exploding in your face makes this secret actually work properly.
I've played Doom for 25 years. And I've never noticed this SSG pixel before. You've just broken my worldview, and I don't know how to live with it and how to admit I was so blind for so many years... Thank you, Mr. Pumpkin man
Thank you for making these vids, pumpkin man, they're immensely fun to watch, despite the fact I've never even thought of making a DOOM map or anything like that. Also this is a certified agonizing rectal pain moment
