The Challenges of Interfaith Relations | Ed Kessler on Israel-Gaza Conflict, and Religious Dialogue 

I'm a practicing Christian (Anglican). Ed Kessler what a breath of fresh air. Thanks guys for this discussion and video.

ive been to the woolfe institute for a summer school about the israel-palestine conflict and it’s so great to have people recognise the importance of religion and its intersection with politics and culture etc!! kessler is doing great work

Relatively secular, but traditional 30-something Jew here... I really enjoyed this episode, but I'm left a bit confused, without focus or without next steps. - What can I do in my little world to bring more peace, harmony and understanding. I am basically on the far left in comparison to some of my family and friends views on Israel-Gaza, by which I mean I feel sympathy and understanding for the Palestinians, especially the children, I am worried about the Israeli government and more. If I was to voice those with certain people I'd be called a self-hating Jew. - Likewise, in the same way as other countries 'have a right to exist' I also believe in Israel's right... So, to those on the left, I'm a Zionazi. Thoughts, feelings, hints, suggestions. Cheers.

I haven't seen anyone invited to present Palestinian point of view on the show although they are the most affected people by this conflict ie right from the 1947 not October the 7th.

I went to a C of E primary school. The result. Life long anti-religion stance.

Sadly, I’m afraid there are very few people who appreciate-- or even want to appreciate-- the complexity of the relationships in the Middle East. Most people want the simplistic sound-bite. We can wish it weren’t so, but this seems to be part of the reality that characterizes our peoples and our national leaders.

Amazing interview. Should be broadcasted in major channels. Thank you for this.

As a practising Muslim, I find Ed Kessler a beacon of wisdom, hope. I would add that Muslim ‘ anger and frustration’ at what is happening to Palestinians has to be compounded with what has been happening in / to the Muslim world over the past 30-40 years.

I’m an atheist. We need more people like Ed Kessler

What a wonderful, inspiring person. Thank you for interviewing Ed Kessler.

I think that until we can free ourselves from religious dogma, all these problems are unsolvable. Getting rid of faith schools would be a very small, but necessary, step towards that better future. Now that would be brave politics!

How do you manage to bring better and more interessting discussions online than the mighty BBC?

Very engaging/interesting. Thanks for introducing me to Ed Kessler.

How odd that the conversation on antisemitism focussed so much on complex antipathies and differences in the 16th century etc. but then 'modern' antisemitism is about opposing Zionism? So that would mean disliking the war crimes, regular crimes, and crimes against humanity carried out by a supposedly secular ethnocracy in service of religious prophecy is just a 'modern' version of the most abhorrent racism the 20 century faced. I rather dislike the ease with which equivalence is drawn there.

I'm just wondering - why are some of the episodes / videos that show up on YouTbe different to those on the podcasat episode lists? I just listened to the Kwasi episode for example, which doesn't show up here, and on the podcast side, THIS doesn't show up. What gives?

Thank you very much. This is an excellent conversation! Thank you again!

Hmmm…. Might have to listen again to have a real opinion. But first impression (having listened to it all) he seems like a very nice guy, but not sure how concrete the answers were. Would have been interesting to hear more solid opinions and to be pressed to express them more. Again may have missed them, hence will listen again to make a fuller conclusion on the conversation.

There are too many nefarious actors who don’t want Israel-Palestine peace that will ensure there is never a solution

I agree with most of Ed Kessler’s views but I cannot agree with his view that multiculturalism in the UK is a success. The huge unrest in UK society currently, the ghettos, would suggest he is wrong on this point. Great interview!

Super interesting conversation

Brilliant discussion. More attention needs to go to the peace making efforts that are happening around the world. Its these efforts that truly change the world for the better not more bullets and bombs.

Coming from the - "What unites us? What do we have in common" angle seemingly works but only up to a point. India and Indonesia are fairly good at keeping a lid on things with everyone uniting around the Republic above all, but it has never vanquished periodical uprisings of absolute inter communal atrocity, usually over competition for resources / roles / landmarks / issues of honour / disrespect of each other's Women etc. Ultimately we could say the "unites us" angle is a diversion, a stalling tactic to avoid addressing the core differences which are often profound. It is of course better than amplifying the differences, but I'm not sure it truly heals / solves anything, just pushes it to the background and keeping fingers crossed Any little thing can bring it racing back to the foreground when the chips are down. Friends and neighbours for decades ended up acting out utter atrocity on each other in India, and in places like Kyrgyzstan. Again, its a plaster / band aid to keep a lid of festering differences. When you throw economic decline, housing shortages, jobs and waiting lists for services into that same diversity, its full time 24/7. Giving communities a true outlet to express their grievances without being demonised for expressing such, is paramount in my view. I say that was the true lesson from history, but seemingly some take the lesson to be to use the full force of the state to crush any sign of grievances. Since when has that worked in the long term?

Great interview, whats the reason that we have had to wait 2 months for it?

Excellent Interview

Excellent, thank you!!!

Thank you very much for this!

Thank you Ed for giving Catholic Palestinians more airtime than anybody else has ever managed! I'm not a religious person, but my family were Roman Catholics from a village named Ein Karem, which is pretty much within Jerusalem (hence the family surname - we were imaginative, you know!). I too believe a land named Palestine and another named Israel is the only possible solution; as for whether it'll happen this century, even this millennium, I wouldn't want to bet. It's so heartwrenching - all of it, all the time, on both sides. We are human. We are the same. We must stop killing each other. We must stop killing each other.

Rory’s facial expressions when he’s listening to others, anyone else noticed or care to share ? 😂

Rory and Alistair do a great job on this channel and it's always informative, challenging and thought provoking. They are both very smart political operators, but obviously not 'religeous' (maybe agnostic/athiest/cannot be bothered to think about it). I'm not sure if they asked Ed Kessler the question about the difference between the Christian and Jewish faith because they were ignorant (hard to believe), or it was an opening for him to explain some very simple basics. It's a complex subject, but this glossed over the major theological diffences that separate Christianity, Judaism and the Muslim faith that are so fundamental, that apart from being respectful and being quite nice to each other, cannot be bridged by conversations, however well intentioned. For Christians, Jesus was and is the Son of God, his death on the cross was the atonement for the sins of the world. For Jews, perhaps he was a gifted teacher, but certainly not the long awaited messiah, and maybe a slightly deranged and dangerous charlatan who was rightly executed as a troublemaker. For Muslims, a great prophet, but he didn't actually die on the cross, but at the second coming he will be subservient to the Mahdi. How can these vastly different doctrines be reconciled? Never, but we don't have to fight each other while we hold very different views.

An interesting but ultimately thin discussion. It dares to venture, but not far enough, into the notion of doctrinal difference, and how we might learn to tolerate these variances.

An interesting conversation. Food for thought.

It's amazing that we can have a discussion about Israel/Palestine without discussing the root of the problem: the fundamental injustice done to the Palestinian people with the creation of Israel in the first place. It was not a land without a people. The idea of a religiously exclusive or supremacist state is an anathema in the 20th/21st century. Zionism was an idea from the 19th century when colonialism, racism, and ethno-supremacism was all the rage. Reparations for European crimes against the jewish people can not possibly be used to justify the injustice done towards the Palestinians, who had nothing to do with the Holocaust. But Israel exists and no one is going to turn back the clock because that would be to do an injustice as great as was done in the past. The best we can do now is to recognise the injustice done and allow Palestinians to finally be free to live in their own country too.

Good interview but with 50 minutes of Rory pulling funny faces I would struggle to keep composure.

From the Nakba to the Nation State law, Israel's character has always been obvious and in the open. It isn't racist to see crimes and label them such.

International events become domestic because we are funding many of these international events.

Happy Republic Day! would love to see you guys interview Graham Smith from Republic.

The woke culture???? Again define that, what are you talking about!

I am disappointed that at 45:11, where the question about "How do you make sense of the conflict?" the guest sidesteps the question. ("I can't do it in a sound bite.") This is the forum specifically for that question, and the guests answer was that of a polished politician, avoiding the question. Can you follow up with him, to give him the time to consider and the opportunity to answer, that question. That question being the center of this whole conversation. I can understand the hosts good graces in there example of keeping a measured tone on such a device topic in word and deed. Keep up the good work. Peace and happiness to all.

35:56 "Its more difficult engaging in [classroom] dialogue than it was 25 years ago" This is such an interesting statement from this interviewee, because He doesn't seem to be interested in engaging with why that is, what Materially Changed over those 25 years. Alot of other dialogues got easier, even in his interfaith sphere, there's been a drastic improvement since 2001 on Muslim-Christian Dialogue on things in that time. Having a discussion on Israel Palestine is more difficult and he should really think about why that is. I would contend its because the prospect of material improvement in the situation is drifting away, a dialogue is made more difficult when the value of dialogue is diluted, and when dialogue is repeatedly undermined by material events. For example the nation state law, or further settlements that go relatvely unchallenged in Israeli society. When the institutions of the state of Israel and institutions of the Palestinian authority are unable to engage in joint actions, and dialogue, then we should be unsurprised when people lose interest in discussions between commoners. And IMO it might be whats best for this individual but dialogue on this scale seems pointless to me when the basis on which its discussed is so detached.

The thing that antisemitism campaigners need to make up their mind on is the relationship between the state of Israel and all Jews. Are they equivalent? Does Israel represent all Jews, and vice-versa? If they are the same, then criticising the state of Israel is antisemitism, sure, but also all Jews worldwide are accountable for the actions of the state of Israel. If they are not the same, then Jews are not accountable for the state of Israel, but criticising Israel is not antisemitic. At the moment antisemitism campaigners love having it both ways: they don't want to be accountable for Israel's worse behaviour, but they do want criticism of Israel to be considered antisemitism. It is surely self-evident that Jews in general are not accountable for the actions of the state of Israel, and criticising the state of Israel is not a criticism of Jews in general.

They're talking around the obvious. It's unfortunate that of those three major faiths, two tolerate liberal intrepretations and seccular governance. And I'm not sure what can be done, externally, to bring about that tolerance in the third.

Dear Rory and Alastair: please interview Stephanie Kelton

Or is it that a lot of Jews equate Israel with Judaism and automatically consider anti Zionism as antisemitism? I don’t doubt there’s a rise, but that caveat seems important.

Heaven forbid you think twice before you say something that could offend someone

Great

Seems like, listening to the guy speak for quite a while, that there are lots of differences, now lets face it, the real differences are about resources and real estate and a place to live and a living to buy bread. But... people love to add a layer based on wizards and magic and unknowable invisible friends who think that they are great and the others (who are living on land you want / think you should have, rightly or otherwise) are evil. Then they use the invisible friends as excuses to attack each other. Funny thing is, offer a man dying of thirst a drink of water and he'll stop pretending to believe in all the wizards pretty quick-sharp, so frankly, it really is about real estate, and for that there is no good solution, so just pick one, build some decent walls and keep it stable for 100 years and people will stop bothering about historical arguments about property rights, because they will be too busy living their lives. And every time someone cites the fictional writings of a fictional wizard as an excuse to do anything, take their mobile phone off them and tell them that when they admit that modern science created their phone and that modern science does not think there are any gods, and see if they still want to start any wars.

Fascinating. How can I help? I’m a secular Jew and spent many years as a senior refugee law judge.

If want to understand a people live or try to live their lives

Whilst Ed Kessler comes across well and sincere , there is very little evidence that inter-faith dialogue has any impact in any situation.

This was an amazing interview that i really appreciate you guys doing as a jew in the uk who has unfortunately experienced in the relatively short time ive been here (9 months) quite a bit of antisemitism and ignorance. It's the first time I've seen someone express exactly what I wish people understood.

In the one moment he denies that Israel is a "Colonial Project".......(Which by the way the original Zionist founders are recorded as many times having stated it as such).......and in the next moment he's agreeing with the comparison to Northern Ireland! It strikes me that, well meaning and all as this gentleman is, he along with many others in this discussion need to pay heed to Mathew 7:3..... "...... first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

"How do we deal with difference"? Refreshing to hear this. Incredible stuff.

Your answer to the genocide in Gaza is to talk about antisemitism? Spectacular. 1. War in Gaza described as 'calamitous for everybody" without detailing Palestinian suffering. 2. No specific Palestinian or Muslim voices/scholars included to share their experiences. 3. When discussing interfaith tensions, Kessler says "I've never known relations between Faith communities particularly as Rory said Jews Christians and Muslims in this country to be as bad as they are", but then focuses discussion primarily on anti- Semitism and threats to Jews. 4. Kessler mentions hearing from Muslims that "'m scared of going on the tube in my hijab I've taken down my muza from the door I'm worried about my kids", but does not delve deeper into their experiences of Islamophobia. 5. Larger focus on Jewish theology, rituals and intra-community dynamics compared to Islam. 6. Continually links Israeli support or criticism with Antisemitism. How precisely is this interfaith work another Israeli apologist?

The next time someone says I'm bla bla bla because of faith can you please ask them to define faith... Coz in reality it is the excuse people use when they don't have proof/evidence.

Regarding Israel, @30:15 Alistair mentioned Northern Ireland. It seems the Northern Ireland model might be the only option open in the long run. Both Israeli and Palestinian representatives will have to jointly govern and new legislation can only be enacted by a select Committee from both parties. The only difference from the Northern Ireland model would be a UN defence force and police force which would include members of both communities. Israel as it is cannot be allowed to continue and Palestinians must be given responsibility. Otherwise Europe will be drawn into another disastrous conflict.

Thank you!!!

Glad rory is so cultured.

Really interesting and as a committed atheist it is always illuminating to hear about the ridiculous squabbling that goes on between belief communities. Faith is the root cause of the instability in the Middle East and elsewhere, I do not see factionalism amongst those that do not believe in some mystic higher force.

Thought you were the Irish guy from the Chase for a moment

I'm sorry but I found this interview fundamentally lacking due to the attitude of the Interviewee. He reminds me of a head teacher who is utterly unwilling to deal with bullying at as school, and keeps restating again and again there is an anti bullying policy, we have a zero tolerence approach to bullying, and we are looking to establish dialogue with the child. But who wont, separate the two children, or intervene, or punish, or even talk directly to them about what is wrong here. They are focused on saying the line, but not doing the thing, or another way, they show they are pulling the stop bullying lever, but are disinterested that the lever is disconnected from the computer. Everytime he is asked about the Israel-Palestine conflict the talks about individuals engaging in dialogue, but (and he nearly goes there) but entirely ignored the importance of institutional dialogue between states and ministries and international organisations, which then result in Action. Alistair brings up Northern Ireland, and somehow he misses the point, NI wasnt resolved by dialogue between the common people, it was resolved by institutions talking to each other, the IRA to the British government for one, and the important step was action, Over time perhaps the human relationships were formed that cemented the peace, but the peace was created by written declarations (GFA) and the movement and ceasefire of troops, and creating a process for justice-punishment, and importantly amnesty, and reconciliation.

Impressive open-minded pragmatic guy. if only there were many more. Very interesting. Thank you.

Exacerbated by Christian RC prayer about “perfidious Jews”

A brilliant interview. I have friends with different faiths around the world. I see it as a personal thing and did heard our bishop Christer Stendahl in Stockholm in the 80-ties when he talked about these brilliant ways to look at other religions. The problem is that many leaders have hijacked religions for power and don't see it as a personal thing, rather make it a we vs. them in a cultish way.

Forget about faith when it comes to wars, it's a self justifying distraction. It's about people.

thank you for this content, meaningful discussions at a difficult time.

Fascinating interview, please contact your MP and ask them to restore the Interfaith Council's funding.

Can you define what exactly 'woke culture' is?

Nakba constantin zurayk?

And there was me thinking the hatred of jews by christians was that they crucified our lord (roman catholics couldn't blame the romans could they).

Who listens to a good politician these days

I would like for this podcast to bring in more voices that can express the Palestinian perspective! It’s largely favoured towards guests that are sympathetic to the Israeli narrative

Man is born without a religion. We come to acquire it here so why do make a choice divide us so

why should there be trust?

I cannot believe that none of these people know the fundamental difference between Judaism on one side and Christianity and Islam on the other side. Come on, why deny the obvious? Everyone can fact check this through their local Synagogue. What sets Judaism apart from the rest is this story of being the chosen people. Jesus wanted to open the Jewish God to everyone which is same as Islam. Jews believe that their God is theirs and cannot be shared. You can convert to Islam through repeating a phrase three times. To become a Chistian all you need to do to accept Jesus as the result of a virgin birth and the promised Messiah that Jews claim is still to come. But you need to study seven years before your can call yourself a believer in Judaism, but you are still not Jew, not until you or one of your male descendants marry a woman with Jewish blood. Judaism is passed through mothers which is unique but makes perfect sense anthropologically and even genetically. The question of knowing who your real son is had been hauntig men until DNA tests came along. There were all sort of superstition and tricks invented to erase this doubt out men's brain and used frequently by women to torture men. But proving the identity of one's mother is far easier. This is why Judaism decided that it will be the mother who carries over the Jewish blood. This way no Thom, Dick, and Harry could have circumcision and pretend to be a Jew. It is is part of the mythology of Judaism that in reality was stolen from the Greeks. Are you telling me that I am wrong about anything in the last three paragraphs? If I am wrong, then please tell me and send me relevant links to correct me. I would love to be proven wrong because I have always thought that this is the root of antisemitism which is something apparently three well educated in this podcast don't know. I refuse to believe that gas lighting could possibly go this far and therefore I must be wrong and all I need is proof which if this comment is not hidden by some strange accident, I am certain that somebody, maybe someone in the production team or the researchers could send me the relevant information.

Free Palestine

Does Rory grimace a lot? Is it a habit?..He looks like he is snarling sometimes.

Hes very good at saying almost nothing

This guest is a weird mix of pious and persecuted. It's all very conflicted and consequently the episode lacks any weight.

Censored comments

Really? Really? We are going to solve real world problems with people who believe in their own version of fairies? Just change that to furies and it makes about as much sense.

Still a load of nonsense then, great

👍

Sorry, I know this is entirely off topic. The sad part about Conservatives is they went from McMillan who improved the list of millions of Britons to Liz Truss who in a major negative record of sorts, tanked the UK economy by a single budget.

Spoke for nearly an hour and said nothing. Just vague platitudes about comforting each other about each other's superstitions to solve real world problems...

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Is invasion and genocide a religion?

I haven't seen anyone invited to present Palestinian point of view on the show although they are the most affected people by this conflict ie right from the 1947 not October the 7th.