The Church of England crosses a rubicon - with Dr Peter Jensen 

It’s too late for the CofE

If you pray, but take no action, you have an empty faith. Stop supporting a church that has turned its back on the Bible.

@@Kyle-sr6jm very true! That’s the main issue with mainstream Protestantism and modern Anglicanism. They just pretend to say “love Jesus” and go on in sin

2 Chronicles 7:14 If MY PEOPLE WHO ARE CALLED BY NAME, will turn from THEIR wicked ways, humble themselves, seek my face and pray, THEN will I hear from heaven, forgive THEIR sins and heal their land.” Is it unreasonable to say but not until then?

The truth of God’s word states that to divorce and remarry makes you an adulterer. The CoE crossed the rubicon in the 1500’s when they served the state rather than God.

@Moses King Jesus, when questioned about divorce and remarriage stated that it was permissable if there was sexual infidelity. If you remember that the penalty for adultery was death. So the partner in a marriage guilty would have been killed, leaving the other a widow or widower. Hence permitting them to marry. Because that law was not being carried out, the principal still stands.

@@normafarmer3254 Correct

these two are NOT standing they are sitting, wringing their hands and capitualting

@@normafarmer3254 A bloodthirsty comment, wildly alien to the principles of Jesus

Ridiculous stuff. This church of England is a joke. For many years they have been doing things against the Bible. Without the Bible there will be no church. Take away the Bible keep it sacred , stop attending and let the Bishops run the Churches as a night club for the Queer Gay crowd.

yes, it is heartbreaking! we need spiritually led missionaries for revival!

@@shans4270 The Lord saves His people one at a time . He needs no more Arminians teaching their unbiblical lies . You read and believe the Bible yourself , and make your calling and election sure . The priesthood was made redundant when the curtain at the Holy of Holies was ripped apart ! Our only priest is the Son of God , who is seated on the right hand of the Father in heaven . He intercedes for us , while His enemies are being made a footstool for His feet . Run from your cult before it reunites with the abomination in Rome .

@@malcolmscrivener8750 Ephesians chapter 4:11 " the words of Christ "

I urge you ALL to keep in prayer and fasting without fainting. You cannot concur spiritual matters with human intelligence.

@@J_a_s_o_n Bible believing folk should know their Bible, the story of David and Jonathan outweighs the skimpy utterances they put to the fore.

@@J_a_s_o_n Absolutely. This is a spiritual battle.

@@josepholeary3286 Ah yes, such a wonderful enduring friendship. צַר־לִי עָלֶיךָ אָחִי יְהֹונָתָן נָעַמְתָּ לִּי מְאֹד נִפְלְאַתָה אַהֲבָֽתְךָ לִי מֵאַהֲבַת נָשִֽׁים׃

Amen & Amen. You’ve nailed it.

Hi Steve, I do think that we are in End Times with this horrible development. I think that the elevation of same gender marriage will continue to be the marker of a Secular, One World Church. God help us all.... I do hope that all Christians will join together at the Cross.... every blessing to you in the grief and loss of your home church. ...G Ire

I'm encouraged that many of us are being challenged to stand for a solid belief in the Scriptures (alone) and as The Lord Jesus Christ as the (only) Way to salvation. The current apostasy is not new because humankind has always believed it could act alone and without the need of a Saviour and Lord. What is different in our present climate is that many leaders of our Anglican Churches have been deluded and are following the Pied Piper of Lies down a humanistic, secular trail. Today, from the pulpit, I hear sin discounted, evil doesn't exist, and we're all bound for heaven because our loving God would never send anyone to Hell. The Cross has to be central and Jesus Christ must be Lord if I read my Bible aright. What is wonderful is that many are praying as never before. Many are considering Mission as never before. Take heart dear ones. You are not alone. Bless you wherever you live and especially if you are facing the present situation alone. God has many who have not bent the knee to another god of our own making.

Where were the bishops 500 years ago when they gave a free pass to the adultery of a mad king? The only bishop who stood up for Truth was St. John Fisher....

@@mosesking2923they were beheaded along with Thomas More

Slowly watering down Gods Word so as to not offend anyone.It wont end well for the church.

I know I will be shot down for saying this, but the Church of England is in the grip of radical feminism

why are you "humble"? why not outraged & angered as Christ calls you to be?

If the Church of England stayed true to the authority of scripture, what about Matt 5 which states that to divorce a woman and marry another is adultery? The CoE crossed the rubicon in the 1500’s when they served the state rather than God.

Get a grip. Jesus cured the gay slave friend of the Roman Centurian.

@@stananders474 your arrogant asinine attitude really is incredible.

Amen! I thank God that my minister, the Reverend Trevor Saggers left the Anglican Diocese of North Queensland and joined the Diocese of the Southern Cross under Bishop Glenn Davies, as the Northern Hope Anglican Church in Cairns.

The Anglican bishops condoned sin when they allowed Henry VIII to divorce and remarry which is adultery. They chose to serve the state rather than God.

I would prefer considering the lack of god's punitive vengeance in this life as unmerciful for allowing people to think they are loved and in a state of grace until they finally end in EQT in hell.

@@mosesking2923 I thought technically the marriages were annulled rather than divorced.

Also, doesn’t the Bible say not to marry your brother’s wife? And that was why Henry VIII had to get permission.

God has given C of E up.

I respect your comment Thomas as unlike most here there is not an ounce of blatant spite, hatred, hypocrisy, insanity, bigotry nor defamation in it unlike that of most of the Bible pounding scorners here full of passionate hate for their fellow man.and the idea that he might be a slightly different version of God's 'most intelligent' creation. (To date!)

And now changing God's gender, wow!!

'Out of fellowship' is far too mild a response in my view. What is being promulgated is a completely different religion which we must oppose just as Elijah opposed the prophets of Baal. Complete separation is the truly biblical response.

@@alanhowe1455 You are probably right, but I don't want to be out of fellowship with the faithful people who remain in the C of E.

Maybe it’s time to give Islam a try! They still hate them over there!

@@donaldbush1182 Who hates whom?

There is only one family and that is the body of Christ which can never be broken, get out of the natural institution and come together as the first followers did

Go somewhere else to church I guess you mean. That’s fine there is a body of Christ to fellowship with.

I too am afraid Bergoglio wants this for us Catholics. But it doesn't matter what he says: the deposit of faith is infallible and no-one can change it, ever.

@@alicepavey974 Very true Alice,up to now though no matter how bad or corrupt Popes were they left the faith alone but I'm beginning to doubt whether the present incumbent is Catholic in any meaningful way,all we can do is keep praying

Both Chesterton and Lewis would have had some withering humorous/serious words to say on this tragedy. I wish I could think of some.

the Catholic church must remain in communion with itself for all of history we can't change something that would cause a break in communion with the church through history.

@@MrPeach1 The wheat and the weeds must grow together, but when the weeds make their weediness obvious its may well be time to break fellowship. On the catholic matter, if Luther didn't break with Rome, Rome certainly broke with him and he and his churches went on to reform while Rome stayed in its error.

saddened? why not angered and activated?

This pope is worse than the Borgia popes, at least they didn't try to change doctrine.

What has Charles got to do with anything? If he wasn't on the throne things would be infinitely worse.

@@ivandinsmore6217 please educate yourself before making ignorant statements. Charles is the head. The head is evil beyond description As the supreme governor, the monarch formally appoints high-ranking members of the church on the advice of the prime minister of the United Kingdom, who in turn acts on the advice of the Crown Nominations Commission.[1]

@@ivandinsmore6217 Thank you, Ivan, for your comment. King Charles is a very religious man, respectful of tradition, and, has a pastor's heart in his love for his people.

I fear his son will do any better.

Lots of this garbage went on when the Queen was alive, they have little control of it.

The Lord is sorting out His people. Those who believe Him and those who don’t. It’s happening in other areas too not just the CO E.

In the case of what constitutes marriage, it's view on same sex relationships, and God's gender, the Bible is very clear. Unfortunately some people want to ignore these very clear scriptures. 2 Timothy 4 v 3-4 prophesied these days.

They twist and distort the meaning. They take things out of context and plainly ignore the message. They also distort the meaning of 'love'. They say 'love', when what they mean is erotic sex.

Have you read Numbers 31, I Samuel 15, or any of the scripture texts where God is portrayed as commanding genocide? Have you read later on in 1 Samuel with its warm portrayal of gay love?

@@WHU63 Not so at all, it warmly applauds David and Jonathan's relationships

When remnant groups take root in a parish, the ordinary moderate catholic faithful FLEE!

Yes, I've heard about this. Jesus himself taught us to pray..Our Father.. You'd think that , and that God is referred to as male throughout the Bible would be enough.

@31ohara Jesus was a man, he called God the Father and Jesus is the husband of the Church.

Ridiculous stuff. This church of England is a joke. For many years they have been doing things against the Bible. Without the Bible there will be no church. Take away the Bible keep it sacred , stop attending and let the Bishops run the Churches as a night club for the Queer Gay crowd.

@@con_boy You're sounding like a Muslim Conrad. Read John 17:5. Jesus said...Now Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.. Who was with God before the world began? There are plenty of other verses too. In Matthew 28 at the great commission, Jesus asked the disciples to make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, and of the son, and of the Holy Spirit. .. The Father, the son and the Spirit are equal.

@@WHU63 Conrad++ didn't say Jesus wasn't divine. He certainly was and still is a man.

Look in the mirror

We have to change it when it pushes us to sin, and even Jesus did so!

@@josepholeary3286 Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, ‘The Scripture cannot be broken’ (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as ‘the commandment of God’ (Matthew 15:3) and as the ‘Word of God’ (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: ‘Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished’ (Matthew 5:18).

Pray to Jesus, Becket can't hear you. You don't have to go through Canterbury to get to Jesus.

Actually, the original Church in the British Isles was the Orthodox Church. St. Patrick of Ireland, and St. Augustine, and Pope Gregory I, who sent him to evangelize, were Orthodox while Rome was yet Orthodox itself. The catholic developments in ensuing centuries were somewhat distant in England until William the Conqueror forced a French rule and established ties with a Rome that was no longer Orthodox. But Orthodoxy flourished and survived for some centuries before William. Orthodoxy today remembers a long list of its saints from those times, even as the Roman church does also. While the Orthodox Church proclaims it is the one, universal, catholic, and apostolic church, just as the Roman church does, one difference between them is that (if we are faithful) we refrain from telling others what to do as regards choosing a church. We consider that a matter for one's own conscience, and counsel that a person should search that conscience in prayer and in action, seeking God, and let Him guide us. Who but God truly knows where each of us is at this time, and by what path we will need to journey in order to find Him?

@@farmergiles1065 Classic 😂

Racism, Slavery, murder of dissidents, genocide, and antisemitism have been lavishly justified by scriptural quotes and church documents -- pretending it is not so only increases the bad odor

Fine point, and having a king or queen to be the head of the church is also a crossing over a line.

It did.. and it resulted in the separation of the Church in England from the Church of Rome 150 years of religious warfare and persecution on both sides with anti Catholic discrimination lasting until well into the 19th c.

I’m afraid that Western Bishops have lost testicular fortitude. Sad.

It starts in the hearts of men when they don't follow God and believe a mega institution can be defended from corruption by wolves in sheep's clothing.

Or maybe it was always there... all the kings of this world always had mistresses and children outside marriage but the church pretended not to see instead they were punishing harshly poor women who had been violated or so naïve to believe a promise. Women were punished never the men historically recorded! And now everyone is up in arm The lord has instructed forgiveness of sin every sin he has promoted people who made mistakes as messenger The woman at the well ,Peter who denied him 3 times, James his brother who thought Jesus was insane, and Paul who had killed Jesus followers. Listen no-one is beyond redemption. Churches blessing sinners that is fine maybe they will be touched nothing happens without God watching just pray for the world and hope. So many worse things are happening in this world: Greed Pride Idolatry Unbelief Murder (killing en masse.) This outcry is just based on the obsession church people seem to have with sex, sexual sins (Lust) are just like any other sins part of the human fall.

@@blacksnow129 It's not churches blessing sinners, it's churches blessing sin. Condoning sin means accepting sin. God does not want Christians to condone sin as sin only leads to pain, destruction, and separation from Him. The Bible tells us God hates sin (Proverbs 6:16-19), which means we should too. Do Not Condone Sin If a person condones sin, it means the person accepts, allows, and approves sin in their lives or in other people’s lives. While Christians are commanded not to judge others (Matthew 7:1), it does not mean Christians should condone sin. A person’s sin separates them from God as the Bible says, “But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear” (Isaiah 59:2). If you condone sin in your own life, it will separate you from God. Even as believers, our sin can separate us from God. Actively living in sin will cause a rift in our relationship with the Lord. When a person places faith in Christ, they are forgiven of their sins (Romans 6:23); however, the Lord does not want you to continue to live in sin. Jesus preached forgiveness of sins and repentance (Luke 5:31-32). In the same way, the Apostle Peter reaffirms the need for repentance, “Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord” (Acts 3:19). Repentance means to turn away from your sin and choose not to participate in the sin anymore. A person should not ask for forgiveness if their ulterior motive is to simply go on sinning. In Hebrews 10:26, it states, “For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins” (ESV). If the person continually commits the sin over and over again, it demonstrates that they are not truly remorseful over their sin. A person should intentionally and willingly accept Christ out of love for Jesus and their conscious decision to know they need Jesus as their Savior and Lord. Accepting Jesus to live a life of sin is not a Christian-focus life. When a person becomes a believer, they should want to do the right things in service to God. Good works do not save a person (Ephesians 2:8-9); however, good works are the result of knowing Christ (Matthew 7:15-20). Condoning sin is not part of the life God has for His children. The Lord hates all sin, evilness, and wickedness (Psalm 5:5, 11:5). Christians are not to condone sin as condoning sin means the Christian accepts the sin or possibly even celebrates the sin. Sin is nothing to be encouraged or celebrated. All people are sinners (Romans 3:23) and we will continue to struggle with sin throughout our lives, but the Lord does not want us to actively seek out sin and condone it. The Apostle Paul speaks about people condoning sin in the Book of Romans. Paul was proclaiming the truth of God’s Word to the Church of Rome, and he was telling them what happens when a person deliberately lives in sin and refuses to accept the truth of God’s Word (Romans 1:18-32). The people Paul was referring to had committed a myriad of sinful acts and were condoning those who practiced these sinful actions. Paul tells the Church of Rome about these people, “They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy” (Romans 1:29-31). Wicked, evil, sinful acts were being conducted by these individuals and they did not have any remorse for their wicked behavior. Paul continues to say, “Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them” (Romans 1:32). The individuals who Paul speaks about were aware of God’s commands; however, they deliberately ignored His commands, refused to follow His righteous decree, and approved of those who did the same things. This is clearly condoning sin and Paul does not represent condoning sin in a good light. As Christians, this still rings true for us today. We should never condone sin in our own lives or in other people’s lives. To condone sin would mean that you accept the sin, approve the sin, and even encourage the sin. Confronting Sin The Bible is clear that we should not judge others (Matthew 7:1); however, Christians are supposed to help each other when they are struggling. Galatians 6:1-2 says, “Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.” Sin is a major problem and as believers, we cannot simply look the other way. Jesus tells us specifically to have two or three believers first talk to the person in private and then if they do not listen to two or three believers in private, the two or three believers should take it before the church (Matthew 18:15-16). It can be difficult to approach a friend, family member, or another church member, but it is vitally important to talk to them. When you approach them, you need to speak the truth in kindness, humility, and love (Ephesians 4:15). Speaking the truth in love does not entail a prideful, hostile, or superior attitude when you are confronting your fellow Christian struggling in their sin. Believers should never tear down one another. Rather than being hostile or prideful, Christians need to always encourage and build each other up in love (1 Corinthians 16:14). After having that conversation, give them time to think on their own. The Holy Spirit will convict a person of their sin and lead them to repentance - that is not our job. Sometimes believers can grow to become cold and calloused to the Holy Spirit’s conviction that they do not feel His conviction anymore. As Christians, it is important to pray for each other, especially during these struggling times (James 5:16). It is never right to condone someone’s sin or to “overlook” the sin (Ibid.). Jesus informs us, “If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them” (Luke 17:3-4). The Lord does not tell us to condone the sin, but rather to rebuke it. If the individual chooses to repent, we should forgive them - even if they sin against us many times. Condoning sin is not an option for Christians as sin has no place in a Christian’s life. All Christians will continue to struggle with sin throughout our lives; however, we should never condone or encourage sinful actions. Any sinful act goes directly against God. It can be easy for people to rationalize their sin or to believe their sin does not hurt others, yet this could not be further from the truth. Our sin does affect others, ourselves, and God. If we condone sin in our lives or in other people’s lives, we are sinning against God. Even if we are not personally participating in sinful behavior, yet we approve of someone else doing the sinful behavior, we are sinning against God. If we know a friend or family member who is struggling with a sin in their life, we must not condone their sin. We cannot say the sin is “okay.” Sin is never “okay.” All sin has dire consequences, even for believers. Even though as believers we are forgiven of our sins and will spend eternity with Christ, there are consequences for our sins in our earthly lives as well as we can have rewards taken away during the Judgment Seat of Christ (Romans 14:20; 2 Corinthians 5:10). Condoning sin is never acceptable and should be discouraged in your own life. If you have condoned sin in the past, rest assured that it is never too late to change. You can stop condoning sin today by turning to God in repentance and asking Him to help you as you confront your loved ones struggling with sin in their own lives with an attitude of kindness, humility, and love.

​@@Dante-vf4sd Thank you for taking the time to reply at length. My difficulty in this matter is more in the term of how sins seem to be classified, more often than not the commandment "You shall not commit adultery" is placed as the first commandment while in the Bible it is number seven. Also I am always cautious about referring to the Old Testament. If we were to follow the Old Testament we should convert to Judaism. Also Paul called the Gentiles to Christ message it must have been very difficult to accept Gentiles men and women lifestyle. Certainly the Greco-Roman culture was full of unacceptable sexual practices, sex with slaves, pederasty, and sex with prostitutes and with men prostitutes. (sex with slaves was ok for old testament Kings) The Bible is strangely silent about sex with young boys and with slaves which was common practice. Sex in Roman era was determined by a very definite hierarchy. The penetration was the act of superiority. To a Jewish scholar like Paul the idea that a man may be a passive sexual partner (because inferior in his society) must have been abhorrent both because of the Thora injunction and because of his cultural background. I always wonder why Christians refer to Leviticus in the Old Testament while it is obvious that no Christians can claim to respect the injunctions of the Old Testament. Christian men are not circumcised, do not eat Kosher food, women go to church when menstruating we deal in interest every day so on and so forth. So in fact we continuously pick and choose what we have to follow partly because Christ show us the path for simpler approach but also because we live in a modern society. The stance against sexual sins reflects both a laisser-faire in our society that we are powerless to stop and an easy way to show our devotion without having to deal with other sinful actions inherent to our modern society specifically the banking system, the exploitation of vulnerable young people, and drug issue. Should the church stop blessing people who are alcoholic drug addict, deal in interest or cohabiting all together? Shouldn't the evangelical Americans so ready to vociferate against homosexuals stop their country right to bear arms because of the injunction "You shall not kill" and the obvious connection between both. I always struggle with Paul because of his stance against women and his harshness. The fact that Paul is put at the same level than Christ by many Christians is bewildering to me and a constant struggle. When Jesus meet the woman at the well he does not condemn her but send her as his messenger to her community. When Christ stop the mob starting to stone the woman adulteress he stops it, one of the reasons was probably that in Judaism to condemn someone to death was a very stringent and complex matter requiring due process with 3 or 4 sound witnesses, always difficult in case of adultery or even murder. (this was also the reason perjury could be punishable by death in case involving capital punishment) The second reason was to dictate kindness and forgiveness toward the most vulnerable in society. Paul it seems turned this on its head maybe he thought it was the only way to try to discipline unruly gentiles to who he was sent to preach. I do not know of anyone who is struggling with homosexuality but I think it is not a worse sin than the terrible greed we see today. Should people who are in fact homosexual have to choose between having a life companion and being Christian?

@@blacksnow129 The issue with homosexual lifestyle and the other sexual related sins is that it's being pushed so strongly as acceptable in western societies unlike the others. All sin leads to death and separation from God. The key to understanding the relationship between the Christian and the Law is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on Christians today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15). In place of the Old Testament law, Christians are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40). Now, this does not mean the Old Testament law is irrelevant today. Many of the commands in the Old Testament law fall into the categories of “loving God” and “loving your neighbor.” The Old Testament law can be a good guidepost for knowing how to love God and knowing what goes into loving your neighbor. At the same time, to say that the Old Testament law applies to Christians today is incorrect. The Old Testament law is a unit (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies. If Christ fulfilled some of it, such as the sacrificial system, He fulfilled all of it. “This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God, we will not be worshiping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. The purpose of the Old Testament law is to convict people of our inability to keep the law and point us to our need for Jesus Christ as Savior (Romans 7:7-9; Galatians 3:24). The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us. Christians shouldnt stop blessing anyone, they should not bless their sinful choices though, for the reasons I explained in my previous comment, they should be calling them to repent of it and share the good news just as Jesus did to the woman caught in adultery and to the lame man at the well. Paul shouldn't be placed at the same level as Christ, that's not my experience of those who follow Christ, but His words are God's inspired and his authority is given by first Christ and later supported by other apostles so his words are to be taken as Truth. Do you struggle with God because of his stance with women in Genesis 3:16? What about when Paul says we are to love our wives as Christ loves His church, does this strike you as hard on women? Jesus used women to share the news of His presence for several reasons, one of which was because he honours and loves them in their roles and another is because the validity of a woman's words at that time was less than males, that makes the accounts more convincing because you wouldn't like about something and say that. Just because God created us as men and women for different roles as a general theme, a woman as a help mate to the man, doesn't mean they are valued less by those who follow through with honouring Gods intents. If one is to become a follower of Christ we must all turn from our sins, it is difficult to turn from what our flesh wants but only through Christ is this possible, I have a weakness to sexual sins as well, I was bisexual and have a huge weakness to lust, I know that it harms me and separates me from God who sacrificed so much more for me so that I could live and be with Him, I don't want anyone to bless my son, I want them to bless me to stay away from it. Conviction of sin is the work of the Holy Spirit after being born again. God bless you my friend.

I think if you leave it down to ' hearing his voice and feeling God's heart.. Then you can arrive at any conclusion'. That's the whole point of sticking to Biblical interpretation.

@@KJ-lb4tjYou need BOTH otherwise the mind likes to debate where the heart wants to love

when Henry the 8th founded a new church with himself at as the head only one Bishop on the island stood opposed. St John Fisher. Not all Bishops are created equal.