The Girlboss Villain Is Everywhere - It's Enough Now 

Hey can you please do the loner trope that trope crosses any gender.

And maybe the bully trope.

And when you do the loner trope don’t make it seem like the loner is always the victim of bullying

What's funny is your previous video glorifies this aspect and portrays it as good thing when used against males but because its showcasing it in this light that vilifies women, you have to make a video that is hypocritical to your previous videos and i find that. . . Beautiful, because as you make this video you inertially prove this archetype to be true. I hope you continue making more videos to push your ideals and as such continue to prove this character troupe more and more true. I say this because no matter what you always make it no completely the women's fault that they are well fucking evil in these cases so movies and stories have to set it up in such a way that you cant blame anyone else but the women and even then you make it some how about men. Its great. i want your channel to rise and grow and to create more women with this ideal because the destruction and fire that will follow in its wake will warm more soul as I watch everything burn to the ground from the females that adopt this ideal.

I have to disagree that women can be just as greedy and corrupt just as men, sorry.However I would like to see a possitive girlboss on screen.

Yeah I was confused about that, when do either of these characters pretend to be feminist or "girlboss"? I mean, Lydia was literally a meth distributor

And Ursula actually encourages traditional feminine behavior, although she does it in a tongue-and-cheek way that an optimist may hope means she doesn't really believe it.

At first I disagreed with this comment but then I can’t deny. Lydia was no boss. Breaking bad did not show her as a boss but a self centered women with access to loads and loads of the main ingredient needed to prepare meth. Yeah that was a stretch. Villain yes, boss no. Lol

The Ursula one felt really misplaced. She was killed because she was evil, not because she was a boss or in a position of power

@@ray_area0468 Well, she had singular power and she wanted more power. She was evil, because she was greedy and vindictive against the king. I think it's usually a flaw for feminists to say that an archetype or character is sexist simply because the character is a woman. Ursula and Scar are literally identical characters, preying of the hero's naive nature to take their place. I've watched people project and make allegories around Ursula my whole life. "She's a body positive business woman." "She rebelled against patriarchy, in some way, to get kicked out of the kingdom." In SOME way? Do you think it may have something to do with the poor, unfortunate souls she's captured and locked away into sea polyps?! I think the defining reason Ursula shouldn't be on the list is that, again, if the definition of a girlboss is someone who pretends to use feminism to lure underlings into a false sense of camaraderie, feminist writers should be able to tell the difference between characters that never did that and are blatantly evil, and actual "hurrah, hurrah!" Girlbosses. The point of a girl boss is supposed to be that the characters and we as the audience thought that they were going to be a better person, (largely because they're women). Ariel looked directly AT Ursula's victims and signed the contract anyway. As much as adults want to pontificate upon drawing allegories between this and the complexities of capitalism and contracts, in the end, it's just a children's fairy tale about a witch and a horny 14-year-old girl. Like, it's like if you saw a Southern Black preacher man who sounded exactly like Rev MLK Jr., but they turn out to be the villain and they cultivated their image specifically to lure us into thinking they were harmless and had all the best intentions. If a dude walked up to you looking, talking, and acting like Tekashi 6ix9ine and you treated him and his crew like they were upstanding NAACP volunteers, that's on you for what happens next.

This, 100%. A lot of people seem to love this idea of holding women to higher account for engaging in the same behaviors that men have for a long, long ass time. Not that those behaviors are ok at all, but they're not somehow more heinous just because it's a women that's the one being shitty.

@@singularity___ i know. Like i kept thinking about how women are expected to be different from the man just on the fact that they are women. Yes, women are going to have to put in the majority of the work (unfortunately) to move progress along and am sure many of the negative reactions towards women who attempt to get in power by distorting the messages advocate groups use is justified. But at the end of the day, most of that negative reaction is due to the character being a women in power, period. And the gleeful takedown and celebration of the fall of these women is just a disgusting as the actions of those characters.

@@singularity___ Holding the marginalised to a higher standard of behaviour is easy when our entire movement was about fighting for inclusion in the first place. In other words, it's easier to attack us for hypocrisy because without inclusion, there would be no girl bosses. And let's be clear - calling out the hypocrisy in girlbosses is absolutely strategic and designed to clip their wings and strongarm the competition, not hold anyone morally accountable. It also makes it easier for men to accuse women of trying to turn everything into a gynocracy, because that's exactly what they HAVE done (turn this world into an androcracy) in our place.

Go off Queen! Preach!

@Clever name ....& yet the consequences for women are disproportionate. You're willingly missing the point now.

She's probably one of my favourite modern female characters, honestly

She has the most duality of any character Ruthless yet feels so insecure and vulnerable underneath it all Smart but too rash and impulsive Supposed liberal yet throws her beliefs away more often than any other character in the pursuit of power

and yet, she's by far the most despised of the siblings because "how could she be so mean to Tom??!!!". As if Kendall wasn't terrible to Rava, as if Roman isn't just...the worst to everyone. It's always so interesting to see people justify their hatred of her as somewhat right, because in a show with someone as reprehensible as Logan, if the person you hate the most is Shiv, something is shifty.

People think they’re all bad. But Kendall is cringe and Roman and Tom are pretty funny. Whereas, shiv has no likeable or entertaining qualities. That’s why people hate her the most. She’s just insufferable to watch

@@m.k4447 ikr! Roman may be likeable and charismatic in some ways, but it doesn’t mean he’s not the more terrible person.

it's not because she found it too dramatic. She changed the word to "us" to show how Miranda's perspective on Andy changed by the end, because Meryl knew that change would help amplify Andy's arc and enrich the overall story (amateur actors only pay attention to their lines, or worse, improvise for the sake of improv. great actors can find opportunities to sharpen the script by understanding their character's relation to the central theme)

@@sohndustin yeah like it serves as a wake up call to andy to see how far gone she is in that world, she realizes she doesn’t even recognize herself anymore

@@atlroxmysox98 exactly. Trina heard the fact, misremembered it and shared her version like a game of telephone and it irks me that hundreds of people are liking it even though it doesn't even make sense.🤦‍♂

I agree

Yes. Wasting away to practically nothing; banished, exiled and practically starving…

@@elisez478 lmfaooo yass 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾😭😭😭

Yeah I think in the original story she wasn't even really a villain she just like yeah magic has a price bro.

yes! Ursala could transform into whatever, and she chose to look like that. She was just doing what sea witches do, and Ariel decided that the love of a men she saw once was worth everything.

Excellent idea. Im from France and I actually HATE movies about Americans coming to France because it is FULL of clichés. Emily in Paris is one of those. If you want to watch a movie about an American going to France and living a realistic french experience. I suggest you watch STILLWATER with MATT DAMON. An amazing movie and the depiction of FRANCE (it's in Marseille ) feels soo real. That's the first American I ve watched in my entire life that does that very well

@@ssissigui8846 I'm going to keep an eye then on STILLWATER coming to streaming services. Thank you for the suggestion.

That sounds great

@@ssissigui8846 Je regarderai, merci ! Je suis d'IDF et Emily in Paris me fait rire tellement c'est stupide. Mais oui c'est insultant

Ooo yes! I love the writing on Ted Lasso but as a Brit it always slightly grates on me that the Americans always kinda rudely make American analogies that none of the British characters understand, expect British characters to kinda go along with the American way of doing things and just generally make British culture the butt of the joke in a way that isn't really sophisticated or particularly funny to us. It very much feels like an American show written for Americans set in Britain rather than a show written by both for both. I imagine French people probably feel very similarly about Emily in Paris, although I felt the end of season 2 was kind of a refreshing subversion of that. For more interesting takes on culture clash, I thought Earthquake Bird showed an interesting contrast between a Swedish ex-pat living in Japan and an American tourist.

Please stop giving me mean comments. My mother reads the comments I get and she cries a lot because of it. Please be nice, dear bla

Wow smh I’ve dealt with my share of girlbosses it’s sad but the mysogyny is real smh

@@AxxLAfriku what the fuck are you on about

@@KSP30 criticizing a female doesn't always equate with misogyny

@@KSP30 First of all I’m a woman and second of all she was wrong and there was nothing wrong with me criticizing her. She literally threatened me and yet you still emphasize with her.

Thatcher definitely was something of a self-misogynist.

Girl Boss is a mood.

@@judeconnor-macintyre9874 If that were true, then any ambitious female villain could be called a girl boss, which is way too broad of a definition.

@@greywolf7577 You know it when you see it.

How is being exploitive over your assistants and abusing the power, "not being a villain"? Andy is getting paid from the publishing company. Not directly from Miranda, who is also a worker. Andy's job is to be an assistant from 9 to 5. Miranda makes her book private flights after working hours and buy stuff for her daughters after hours. That is clearly mobbing and violation. Miranda is also not that great at her job, she is constantly overspending. She shouldn't be getting away with it just because she is female. My mum passed away very, very recently, and she is the owner of one of the best nursing homes for the elderly. I'm taking her job, not only am I a "girl boss", I also happen to be the youngest person there. And I'd never act the way Miranda does!

@@verakukic243 This video is specifically talking about the "Girlboss Villain", not the straight-up "Girlboss" (there's definitely overlap but if you look at The Take's video on the latter, you'll see they're not quite the same trope). What's more prevalent in the Villain variety is that they employ feminist/progressive rhetoric to make themselves seem better than they actually are. I'm saying that Miranda doesn't quite fit that mold because she never displays any overtly feminist qualities or inclinations. The employee's gender is of no consequence to her; if they can't keep up, they're let go. It has been argued by some that she is the villain of DWP, but she doesn't really fit the Villain variant of the Girlboss as presented here.

I love Never Have I Ever and The Babysitters Club for showcasing healthy in-law relationships

Not much father in laws🤔

@@mewesquirrel6720 There's the over-protective father who loathes the potential male partner on sight and does everything from intimidate to threaten him.

@@ashleightompkins3200 oh yeah like that movie with Steve Martin

Father of the Bride!

True, but she is more of a protagonist girl boss rather than a antagonist

Not only that but she chose to help defend the north from the zombies instead of taking kings landing.

I can't avoid to see Daenery has a messianic attitude. White Savior complex

@@isabellanajera Dany is not white, the actress is. whiteness doesn't exist in her fictional world, she is Valyrian a fake race. Also...did you forget that the winners of the throne were also white actors/actresses 🤣 obviously the show wasn't commenting on race. Her character was a s*x trafficking victim that turns crazy and evil to make evil dudes feel ok with hurting women. It's just misogyny. Sorry.

@@isabellanajera so she should’ve just done nothing then? since she’s such a “white savior”, should she have just let the slavery continue?

@@isabellanajeraThe thing is SHE is a messianic figure in the books. There are prophecies that play a major a role in the story about The Prince That Was Promised and Azor Ahai and they talk about the one needed to fight against the Long Night and among the specific traits mentioned is bringing back dragons. She very much fits the mold of the prophetic savior in the face of this oncoming ancient evil, the thing is she’s not the only one who does. Also, the term white savior is used for her because of scenes in the show with her freeing the slaves but in the books slavery in Slaver’s Bay followed the pattern of Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece with many slaves being from Europe. The reason this wasn’t properly reflected in the show is that they filmed on location in Morocco and most of the people playing slaves were extras from the area and therefore couldn’t reflect the diversity that is actually in the books were many would be white. In fact, it is made explicit that the Lysene prefer white slaves with Valyrian features and Doreah actually somewhat resembled Dany in the books.

Agreed.

This makes me think of a video I started watching (I didn't finish it) about Emily in Paris in which the (male) RU-vidr referred to her as "the most unlikable character" from the entire tv year. I mean, there is valid criticism to be made about that character and that show, but that seemed a BIT extreme.

I like Amy Dunne and Love! There's a lot to admire in their dedication to the cause :)

I agree, but Love definitely received a positive response online this season.

And...Cersei Lannister. Daenerys Targaryen.

@Christian Ogara really, just the Black characters? Maybe the ones in the shitty media you consume. That only applies to the characters written by whites because the Black characters in the fandoms I’m in (which are led by POC) are well written and beloved. In general, white people dont write good Black characters and the majority of whites will only consume media that is created by whites, so they assume every Black character is bad when that’s not true.

@@witchplease9695 idk, the "diverse" writtin' team behind the Disney Star Wars Movies or those involved at the TheWitcher Netflix Show don't really support your tale here. Also, the critique against Luther (mainly from people from the USA, which is funny in consideration that it literally is based in England ...) does rather indicate that some "POC's" at least are pretty trapped in their own stereotypical thinking. I mean, why should a darkskinned British Citizen still have to have an special accent or has to favour certain non-british foods? Some of them comin' from families which are livin' for over 100 years in Europe. European Cultures are - in contrast to a sort of "US American Culture" which basically rarely exists on its own - pretty rich. There are German decendencs in Russia today which probably don't even really think about "Oh, yeah, my Grandgrandmother was actually German.", same goes for spanish people in Scotland. But anyway, the issue is often that "diversity" isn't brought to the table to actually depict diversity or something - It's just there to get your Money. I mean, I personally don't really care as long as the Actor can convince me of his acting skills - but as soon as it doesn't feel "natural" anymore the show has to have alot of other things goin' for it. A good example for diversity casting would be probably Foundation or also The Expanse - Yet both Series have the benefit of bein' SciFi Series in which it is pretty easy to cast more diverse without even lookin' for diversity; just look for certain types (bigger/smaller/more charismatic/rather shy etc) and see which actors are most suitable for the job because nobody can question in the year X anything. Well, Disney at least was even able to fail in a SciFi Setting though.

@@witchplease9695 What black characters are you talking about?

@@DaroriDerEinzige you make no sense.

@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 I actually do, you just don't grasp the meaning of what I've commented. Yet instead of askin' you chose that. Not really clever ^^

That’s not a verified fact. One study said that. Other studies show much higher rates among executives than the general population but far below 1 in 5.

that is NOT a verified fact. psychopathy has not been an actual diagnosis for DECADES.

psychopaty really exists?

@@lakouk1901 as far as the field of psychology is concerned, it literally doesn't. what you mean is ASPD, that exists.

@@sugaredoleander409 ASPD?

"The Crown" really put my lifelong crush on Gillian Anderson to the test - Thatcher was such a horrible person, and she played her SO well!

@@neuralmute Yes. No arguments there.

Wow, smart mom. It's true, the minute a woman gets power, she automatically gets the label of wicked. This is clearly an attempt at oppressing women and the idea that women in power are any different than men in power.

@@palmtreesandmoonbeams Yes, to me that was one of the moments in which I really feel that "Yeah, mum knows it all" 😂.

I love your mum

@@skunkrat01 haha, yes I love her too xD. During that time all friday nights were movie nights, and we would talk about them. Looking back, that was quite a genius move to make our family spend time together and trigger discussions about anything.

Movies show some male bosses as evil, but that doesn't mean that it is trying to teach that all men will be evil if they become bosses. Having female bosses also be evil sometimes shows that men and women are the same in this regard.

Conversely, I find myself irritated at how many romcoms show us that all career women are unhappy (even if they have a boyfriend, a good salary, and a good job that isn't exploitative) and that true happiness is in returning home in the countryside to be with a man they've met there and quitting the job that they liked. Some movies do a better job than others, by showing their jobs as actually soul-sucking and unfulfilling, but the recurrence of this motif that combines romance + quitting the career you've worked hard for somehow worries me. Not because this isn't a valid choice to make in real life, but because it makes it look like there's something fundamentally wrong with having a career, rather than showing that the issue actually comes from a deeper social problem. In combination with what you've said, it seems like in the writers' imagination, the career woman has to abandon all hopes of having anything in her life besides her career, but this is ultimately unfulfilling and condemns them to unhappiness, and the only way to find happiness is to quit entirely. You can have one or the other but not both, and having a career always seems to make women lonely and embittered. I think there should be a lot more nuance to it than that. The problem of overworking at the sake of domestic happiness that you mentioned, for example, is a very real issue and it should actually be portrayed as a systemic issue (which it is) rather than a personal choice exclusive to women and romantic in nature. Instead, we've got that fantasy of "work versus happiness" that reinforces the idea that you can't have both, that you have to choose, and that this choice will determine whether you're a good person or not; it also presents a very warped universal idea of what happiness is, I think.

Yes! Exactly! It's a dumb false dichotomy. My mom loved her job and was GREAT at it and she still had strong relationships, bonds with kids and grandkids, friends, parents, spouse. It isn't either or and it is super weird that in every movie that is the choice women have: either have relationships or have a job.

@@cbpd89 i agree with you 💯👍

Preach \\o//

Terrible to work for. Girl boss is herw to take over never to take part. Never to help men. That would be the antithesis of "the future is female"

Terrible to work for. Girl boss is here to take over never to take part. Never to help men. That would be the antithesis of "the future is female", 15 yeara of dozens of girl bosses. Every one 100% in it for 100% them only. The worst narcs in the work place every time

@@kylejcool shut up.

@Mohlakala Tleane that’s not true at all.

I agree with this 💯

I was going through the comments to see if somebody mentioned The Bold Type, because yes, all of this, thank you! I was so positively surprised when she was revealed as a supportive and nurturing role model, respected not feared! Jacqueline is an amazing character and I'm so thankful for the show for this kind of portrayal.

Yeah while I think the double standard that women are punished and hated more intensely for wrongdoing is misogynist, I don't know that framing capitalistic ambition as villainous is. You're not gonna find a lot of "nice" women succeeding at CEO level, because capitalism doesn't reward that.

the megalomaniacs attaining power through villainous means, regardless of gender, race, or country, is as obvious as your nose we were watching about how cis-women in positions of authority are portrayed as more villainous than cis-men in positions of authority in both fictional media and news media, regardless of how villainous they actually are thank you for catching up

Yeah no. Learn more.

She's currently in the Wheel Of Time series on Amazon Prime. It's really good

And yet, if you portray a powerful woman who's too "good," then you are upholding unattainable standards. Either she's too virtuous or she's too villianous, so either which way, it's seen as some sort of attack on women. How about, just maybe, men and women can both be assholes, and the corporate ladder tends to reward asshole behavior. Anything a man can do, a woman can do just as well... and anything a man can do poorly or immorally, a woman can do just as poorly or immorally.

So Brave

@@anyssamoya1559 I agree

Lol this is a statement that could use some clarifying context...

@@anyssamoya1559 For me, a powerful female character who didn't have "unattainable standards" was Ellen Ripley from the Aliens franchise. Sigorney Weaver played a middle-aged, non-super-powered, female protagonist who was intelligent, level-headed, brave yet capable of fear, and grounded. Her appeal had little to do with sex - yeah, there was a scene with her in her underwear but to be fair, all the human characters were in their underwear in these films. It's difficult to look at Ellen Ripley and think "she's too good, her standards are unattainable." Heck, in 2021 there are hundreds of Ellen Ripleys in the U.S. military, alone.

That's terrible

Nah she was a tyrant

@@ianvera4299 cool

@@GM-vr4eb 😉

WELL SAID 👏👏👏

Yes. I think the thing is it's difficult to avoid being seen as a "cautionary tale" whilst still showing the reality of the impact of patriarchy on female bosses. Because it's true that most successful women feel the need to choose between work and family. It's true that many male partners don't like having a partner who is more successful than they or, or even one who is really into a career or hobby to the extent of investing time in that over spending time with a partner. It's true that many women feel like they have to act more masculine to succeed or be stricter and less friendly than male bosses in order to be taken seriously and not patronised, despite the fact that they'll be seen as a bitch even just for acting the same as a male boss might be respected for. Yes it's a problem that it's portrayed that women in power are trading aspects of femininity and that they're incomplete and unhappy without these, but at the same time many aspects are the reality. For example as well, the disgraced female CEO, in a movie where we look at the human beings of course we focus on the fall of the human CEO rather than the company because we have watched the people in the company make the decisions. It's the press who create the problem of treating female disgraced CEOs differently from male CEOs. It would be strange if a movie or TV show despite usually putting a human face on the goings-on of a company (even to the point of over simplifying how things go wrong in a big business as its not usually just one person being corrupt) suddenly distanced itself when there's a female boss and was just like "oh the company just fell apart with a corruption scandal somehow" as if it's a news report looking in at something it can't see.

absolutely agree

I don't think society has maintained that delineation. I wish it did, honestly. We certainly saw that in previous instances of backlash against the PR Capitalist companies touting BLM & LBQT in their mission statements that were in fact, PR bandaids overwork cultures absent of those same values...But companies touting the future is female? We attack gender(female), the individual, and their success. I've heard one too many Gen Z'rs attack successful women they disagree with as girl bosses. It's mis-used very liberally now.

Agreed. To be frank, I don't think the humanization of the "girlboss" figure is a worthwhile endeavor if we truly understand how evil capitalism is. It's talking out of both sides of your mouth to claim that you understand capitalism is an inherently evil system that requires corruption to succeed in, while also saying women shouldn't be critiqued for finding success in it. These are two diametrically opposed stances and it has to be one or the other. You can't be anti-capitalist while also making any space for nuance with the "girlboss." The takeaway in this video should've been that greater scrutiny needs to be on men's roles in capitalism but it just ended up being an apologist piece for corrupt women. It felt like the usual, vapid white feminist take while trying to claim a more "progressive" slant. Completely missed the mark.

But people love those "complex male villains" more & actively hate women in similar roles

Did you even listen to the video before rushing to comment? They’re not saying anything negative about these characters. And who are you asking to “let us” have these characters? the ladies who work at The Take?

@@idontevenhaveapla7224 Didn't most people love Emma Thompson in Cruella though? And Meryl Streep in Devil Wears Prada? Rosamund Pike's character Amy from "Gone Girl" too. Most people thought Cersei Lannister was an INCREDIBLE character as well. There are definitely ways to make cool, badass "complex female villains".

@@arjunmanoj2155 True - Amy Dunne and Cercei Lannister are two of my all time favourite villains, and I get out the popcorn whenever Meryl Streep pulls out the evil, whether it's as Miranda Priestly or Margaret Thatcher, (who I loathed in reality)! The problem is that we're still often drowned out by the chorus of (mostly) male voices who feel threatened by complex, interesting female villains who aren't just eye candy.

you say as we watch 1988's Working Girl villain-girlboss hypersexualize herself for a "merge" ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Wow, you had a platform to speak on a women's issue & your main point is "women are the oppressors". The fact that you chose "white women" doesn't matter. You still chose to blame women. Blame a woman...any woman. We've heard this statement before, in the eighties it was black women & asian women are also under attack now. Throughout history, men have always put blame on women when they start to fear our power. They just change which race of women they blame, but it's ALWAYS a woman. You are SO transparent, take your misogyny elsewhere.

I agree with this 💯👍

Men can write women to have perceived humanity. Do you think that if a woman wrote a man, he wouldn't have perceived humanity?

@@greywolf7577 a man can but its kind of rare or if they try they aren't very good at it.

I forgot Silvie in Emily in Paris!

Lol

I agree with you, honestly.

People would not support a man who did what Elizabeth Holmes did. We shouldn't support her either.

You must be psychic, very on point! 🔮❤️

Everyone in Succession is kind of a villain

She is really cruel towards Tom. You kinda root for him to betray her.

I agree with this 💯👍

( standing ovation )

Being white and male doesn't necessarily mean Capitalistic. The Russian leaders were white and male and they became Communist. If the world had formed with minorities in control, it likely would be just as Capitalistic as it is today.

I used to love this channel but now more recent videos seems to just push “oh men bad women good” narrative without solid evidence to back it up. :(

@@hitcherooney I agree. They're really reaching with a lot of their commentary. Maybe running out of ideas?

That's the point of this video, though, that most of these girl bosses have been shafted by bad writing, usually by men.

The storyline was great. Dany made it clear early on that she was a monster in waiting. Audience fell in love with her like they do charismatic politicians and then act surprised when they turn out to be a monster.

Disagree I am a feminist however Danny's character was very clear it would turn out as evil, however the way that it was executed was horrible. Since the beginning we root for her because she was the underdog, however she was a conquer and she make it very clear that you are on her side or you are the enemy. Also since the beginning it was told many times the tendency of the members of her family to become "crazy", I mean they practice incest so not suprised with that thing. For me her story represent how power can corrupt people, for example her story is very similar to a lot of dictators, that start following a good cause and end it up being power hungry. Indeed Dany is not exactly bad so her character is so complex for that reason, in her point of view she is doing the correct things however for other she was the bad one. So the clues were since the beggining but the way they represented felt rush and stupid.

Leslie Knope, Amy Santiago

Sir Integra Hellsing, human leader of the titular Hellsing vampire hunting organization. In world of vampires, vampire nazis, and wealthy mediocre white males; she's still the most intimidating person in the room.

@@emmal2932 ....They're portrayed to be this extremely ocd figure tho. Not like actually complex neutral character. Not to mention they're shown to be looking upto men that are portrayed much more cold & neutral(& still likable). Amy is shown as a teacher's pet. They're not shown as sort of these "self-affirmed neutral complex" male characters that are liked by society....

Captain Janeway on Star Trek Voyager is one, I think.

Lucy Lu's character in Set it Up

This conversation is much more complex & nuanced than "not necessarily misogyny" & I hope you won't pretend that we actually have good representation of women in power compared to men. There's no reason why the (mostly) men who say & write these characters should get to decide whether they were misogynistic.

This is about hundreds and thousands of times when actual misogyny is occurring due to inadequate representation on screen.

The term is stupid. Ironically I've never heard a woman self-subscribe to it but the media cycle and pop culture picked it up like wildfire because society is obsessed with humbling women. "What's the next big term we can weaponize against females now?" Cheugy? Basic? Girlboss? Diva? So glad I'm at the age where I can see past it but met a lot of younger women mostly gen z with internalized misogyny who generalize successful older women as Girl Bosses and Cheugy. So yes, agreed, some of these characters are more nuanced than the term endears but a lot of people already blanket that term onto these characters.

Agreed, the original meaning was not insidious. However currently, the term girl boss is mostly used to condemn.

You are feeding into feminism too much. Daenerys killed fleeing women and children and burned them to a crisp. This violent streak was in her DNA, everyone knew about her ancestor that did the same thing. There are million of stories that show when a man gets too much power they become corrupted too. Thats a trope in itself.

This. I’m glad that a lot of people who critiqued season 8, pointed this double standard. Why is Daenryas crazy for doing things that other male characters have done.

@@PrincessLioness I know right, burn one city of innocent people to the ground and now everyone calls you crazy.

@@Chris-rg6nm I’m not talking about that part. I’m talking about all the previous moments that D&D pointed to as foreshadowing for her going crazy. Daenrys never went too far until that moment. It was a rushed character arc that was a symptom of the writing problems of the later seasons as a whole.🙄

The amount of people who wanted Daenerys to go mad for years because “think about those poor slave owners and rapists she killed!”...😒

I don't believe that was the intention behind that decision. But for me, I'm waiting for Season 3 to put my judgement behind it since it's possible the character is more nuanced than what she seems. She might be blackmailed by Vought for example. I have enough respect for how the show is written to give them the benefit of the thought.

No one attempting to gain power should be trusted, full stop. And as cool as AOC is, she still functions within the US political system making her susceptible to the same critiques

Starlight's a girlboss in season three. Actually more like a co-captain but still she's in a position of power and she's genuinely using it to try to reform The Seven. Only problem is Homelander doesn't like it and, after going on a rampage and getting a boost with white men over it, loses her power to the white man who lords it over her with his usual cruelty.

How is Stormfront a girl boss? She's just a superhero/villian

@@Chris-rg6nm Stormfront is the girlbossiest of all girlbosses

totally agree

Martin has some weird shit of his own when it comes to writing women, stuff that definitely deserves some eyeing in ways that go beyond 'he's writing a sexist world,' but let's be fair here. He basically stepped away and had nothing to do with the show for the entire back half of its run because he disagreed so hard with the shit job they'd started doing... The point where the writing really started taking uncomfortable left-turns and threw out the source material entirely. Benioff and Weiss and everyone who enabled them in those last seasons are the ones to blame for some of the most braindead and often misogynistic BS late GoT pulled out.

It was really sad that BookSansa’s compassion was seen as a liability, to swiftly shed- & that the character we saw during the Battle of the Blackwater just disappeared into the ether. I will always believe there _were_ ways to make Dany the villain, if that’s the endgame for her character (I’m thinking it might be) - but we needed *actual* progression, not a flipped switch in less than a single season, & some retroactive pointing out actions of previous seasons, after the fact- especially when the writers gave less of a stuff about continuity than those of us who were watching every season... Yara kinda simply exists as the lesbian/ bisexual titillation; there’s not a lot of conversation about what kind of a leader she’d be in Dany’s new world- we sort of know what kind of leader she is before then, because Theon spells it out at the Kingsmoot - she’s just _there_ at the faux Great Council- seemingly to spar with Arya, & *not* assert the Iron Islands’ independence at all. The less said about Dorne, the better... everyone forgets that Brienne is actually an heiress (including her) she’s the only child of the Lord of Tarth- & it’s never addressed... Cersei’s character just got boring- I think/ hope in the books, she’s gonna go nuclear- but in the show, after blowing up the Sept- she’s kind of just- there, ‘til she bites it- in the least satisfying manner imaginable...

Martin really had nothing to do with the last season so he's not really deserving the blame for that.

Women with power get them to care!

Right hahaha its like "how do we show that a woman is stern and inflexible?" "with a straight blunt bob"

I think it was just an insult

@@Chris-rg6nm All insults are taken and given as personal attacks.

Have you watched "Domina"? The central matron is pretty nuanced, probably because she is the main character of the series.

@@julietteangeli yes, I’ve watched it. I quite like it. The scenery were stunning, the women are nuanced and three-dimensional. I love Livia, she’s such a cutthroat protagonist.

Is not political, "real men" need to have there women tamed. Would like more women fighting back screw that.

@@ratmon19 i agree with this 💯👍

Reminds me of Alien Vs Predator....

Really? Are you really arguing that women have better representation than men?

Women have always been portrayed as capable of evil in media. Who are the biggest villains in most teen sitcoms? Mean girls.

That's Blake Lively in the movie A simple favor

@@claranguematio6717 Thank You!

@@theunknown5386 i was more talking about like serial killers and cannibal characters being simped over, and framed by the media theyre in the be redeemable and charismatic. But you do have a point about one dimensional “strong girl” characters are presented as feminist icons, and some female viewers bye into it, while theyre just… carbon copies of male characters and can sometimes get away with being meaner.