The "Official" Moebius Mod Tier List 

Science vessel deserves S tier because i think grant forgot that science vessels provide the radar tower buff of +1 range and +9% attack speed FOR ALL YOUR UNITS NEAR IT, so having 1 or 2 in your army is VERY good

If I ever had to choose a man responsible for "official" opinions about SC2 balance and game design, Grant for sure would be this man. So the title is completely reasonable

the scv should get S-tier because it still has the grapple ability while it's an scv so you can get it out of spots that it get's itself stuck in, the amount of times that i have used grapple to get it out of a spot is absurd XD

I felt the factory units were the "weakest" (in design terms) of the bunch, while Barracks and Starports had very few stinkers and some absolute bangers (MISSILE FRIGATE BAYBEEEEEEE)

Truly do hope we get a HOTS/LOTV version of this mod, this is by far the best custom campaign and when ever i reply wings it will be with this mod

Small correction: The IRL C-130 Hercules cargo plane doesn't require hours to unload. They can palletize their cargo and drop it out the back mid-flight. The Hercules can carry 40 tons IIRC, so it's too small to carry an M1A2 Abrams.

Hellion/Missile Frigate and Diamondback/Goliath were two of the most glorious army comps I had the pleasure of using in the Moebius Mod. A mobile hit-and-run comp that actually works in campaign was not something I thought I’d bear witness to, especially in ALL IN of all places.

Hey Grant, I was thinking about the "always having to pick one unit or the other" in the research tree. Would you be able to reach out to some of the modders and see if they can set up an alternate use for extra research to unlock those units? I was thinking like, have the option to sell the additional research (after 25) or be able to unlock another research for an extra 5 research cost. Alternatively, maybe it's possible to "buy" a research tech from another vendor for a credit price. I have no idea if it's possible but I think it'd be neat so that you could try multiple of the unlockable units in the same run.

I hate when I start to run out of minerals/gas, and I end up with way more SCVs than I need to do things, and the HERC feels like a good way to take these extra SCVs and do something with the supply.

The Hercules dropship in my own opinion is kinda like cutters elephant from halo wars but more diverse

My first thought when Grant put the Legionnaire into A tier: "Soo the Legionnaire belongs into the A tier, because it's Hotkey is on A aswell, oh, and it's good"

I think the most important feature of the science vessel is actually the one you never mentioned: it counts as a sensor tower, including the range and fire rate bonus to all units. That makes a single science vessel into a huge force multiplier to any composition that has room for them, and the auto-cast on its guardian shield as soon as it gets targeted personally makes it much less vulnerable to anti-air than a single starship would normally be when floating over a mostly-ground army. And conceptually, I love the idea that it's not a repair bot, it's not a radiation bomber, a science vessel is all about *information*. For the Phantom, I like to think of this less as a replacement for the medivac (a flying medic that also happens to be able to transport), but a replacement for the that adds transport capability. Much like with the hellion/vulture/condor bikes, the modder took two units that were heavily 'meh' and combined them into a single unit that's pretty good. It's not the best, because dropships are underwhelming in this campaign and the enemy always has detection, but within the limits of those two things it's pretty close to the best that it can be. My last thought is about ghosts and spectres. In lore terms, it seems like one spectre should be straight up more powerful than one ghost, but more expensive to represent how hard they are to work with and the need to keep them supplied with the right drugs to keep them stable. But I don't think I've seen a single modder make the two asymmetrical; everybody seems to try to make them exactly equivalent to each other, and usually ends with the spectre being slightly weaker.

5:20 There can be concussions on the body since the suit is quite durable, but physical stress can cause one of the marines to, say, get hit in the head and die from the brain being damaged, or the ribs impale the heart, or just in general the soldier dies because the suit is almost skintight so damage to it means damage to the guy inside. The description of Marauders' kinetic foam mentions this as well, that upgrade makes them more durable because they can survive more impact thanks to the foam, but marines and other infantry units have none of that luxury and just have to hope nothing bad happens when they get hit by a zergling.

This is such a cool mod. I am not super great at playing SC2 and I’m so excited that the mod is playable at non-nightmare level difficulty. Super cool!

Didn't expect a tier list on this but yay!

My favourite things about Moebius Mod aren't even directly part of the unit and tech reworks, it's various misc changes, both small and large, that make it COMFY to play. Regenerative Resource Nodes, both Mineral and Vespene, slower play is neither excessively punished or excessively rewarded. Hero units becoming a permanent fixture in your arsenal including most missions having at least one hero with your starting units. It's not just Jim every time either, you've got all four heroes appearing regularly through the whole campaign. They're no-longer a gimmick appearing for only a single mission. More Objectives -> More Mission Rewards -> broader access to the tech-tree, less requirement to over-think long-term strategy. The fact you get a little bit of bonus cash even playing archive missions is also nice if you want to be more completionist with upgrades, but even that isn't entirely needed with how generous the rewards are. If you feel like it, there's also the added Cheat Codes; AllBuild Alltech and HHH to play some silly gimmicks like early units or having both sides of tech tree lockout choice in the lab / ghost+spectre

I think a better addition to the crucio siege tank would’ve been to instead give it an active ability (auto cast or not) where the tank in siege mode could fire upwards and deal light damage in a medium radius, similar to the mengsk coop artillery bombardment. You could also put in the chance to stun alongside that if you wanted to keep the stun mechanic

After watching all the other tier lists, this finally popped into my recommended. Amazing and fabulous!

Hey Grant, do you plan on coming back sometime to showcase the "evil" modifier or whatever it was which we didn't get to see? having watched the missions I feel some could do with a little more challenge, maybe not evil 100 but evil 50 for sure. Just seeing how these stronger units would fair against it would be interesting, and what cheeses you'll come up with. Thanks for the amazing mod Nadrel and Grant for the series

Fun tier list. Super-Awesome, All-round Good, Basic, Crappy, Deep Flaws. Really enjoyed your playthrough.

Another upside for the widow mine is the relatively low cost (75/25) for quick static defense, especially since every unit in this mod is more expensive.

After playing command & conquer, i think drop ships, transports would need to be designed in tandem with the map rather than the content of the mission. The base purpose is to be an alternate mode of travel for certain units so when the map is so small and everything important is connected by land, there isnt a use case that necessitates transports or dropships

now that's what I've been waiting for! thanks!

Something I love about this mod is that I had many thoughts about units, like the dropship with cloack that heals the units inside, the diamondback with inmortal shields, battlecruiser with speed boost, hero units, specially Stetman with irradiate... And then this mod came out with all that I wished for, it's insane!

I might not be subscribed but I loved the series when you played the moebius mod it was the bomb dude

Wonder if it'd be possible to mod it so that you could buy any laboratory upgrades you don't pick with credits as well as the other option through protoss / zerg research, so as to enable the player to potentially research everything, though in reality it should probably be balanced so that you cannot have enough credits for both that, and the unit upgrades you might want.

please add this to the tier list playlist

Really enjoyed the series and the tier list. Being this tier list is based of how you liked the revamp and not power levels haha. I think it's very hard to change the meta unit siege tank due to it being a powerhouse for every installation of the game. Other than like making it auto bot like transformer. I don't think it could be changed in anyway possible to improve it. Any changes would therefore likely down size it's power

One thing I like about SC1 campaign is that there are many missions that u must use the dropship and it is also fun to play unlike in SC2 campaign.

Just got curios suggestion for siege tank - add toggle for tanks to fire either in sync or out of sync. When you have battery of 3..5 tanks sync firing will take down wave of bulky units all at once. And when they are firing out of sync they will not waste additional shots stomping squishes. Skill-based siege tanks, yeah!

Ghosts are good, but they cannot target massive units with snipe. So cant mass snipe the leviathan in shatter the sky so sad.

For some changes that make be good for the viking, bashee and thor. For the thor they should've left the cannons as they were. A point and click delete button was pretty good to begin with when the game was released. But perhaps an addition would b either add nuke to it or give it a siege mode that locks it into place and barrages anything that comes within its target location. The viking can have a bombing run type deal like the boss fight in heart of the swarm had. It can dash a distance while dropping bombs in a straight line. While in walker mode, it can just fire a concussive shell that deals a good amount of damage. U can do the bombing thing with the bashee as well or for it's case, give it a turret that can fire air units with low damage but high fire rate with bonus damage to light air units. Or a barrage ability to deal damage to a target location or a corsair ability to disable ranged units within a small field to make it good against static defenses.

I think it would've been neat to see Cyclones and Warhounds added to the base game. Variety is always nice. Maybe make it so you get cyclones/warhounds and ghosts if you side with nova, and Spectre's and Tosh if you side with him?

I really wanna see Grant do a field tech only run of this mod

When I used recall, it was so overpowered. What I did was I had a bunch of the "movey while shootey" units charge in, then I'd recall almost immediately. Then I'd heal up and charge in again. I did this a couple of times, and I hardly lost anyone.

I think one way to redesign the Siege Tank into an interesting unit is to remove the splash damage and reduce the damage, but make it fire MUCH faster at the same range, sort of like the TR17 from UPL. Alternatively, make it a napalm tank that deals anti-light damage and leaves burning areas on impact. Another rework for the Thor would be to give it its own Siege Mode-like thing, but with railguns on the back that specifically target air units. Parking 1-2 Thors at your defensive lines then becomes a fantastic way to shore up your anti-air, or they can even park near the command center to deal with enemy air waves going for your mineral line. Vikings and Banshees are sort of quintessential. Maybe replace the Banshee with a suped-up Wraith that deals actually passable ground damage?

I think even its the same tier, you can still decide which one is the better than the orther and put them at the front.

5:30 Welp, better prepare for flashbang nerfs

Now we need moebius mod medics only with auto-turret+repair spam

I think the phantom dropship can be made viable if it had a super fast self-repair ability that triggers when it takes no damage after x amount of time. This would solve 1) the problem of misplays where a dropship can get too damaged while behind enemy lines and it becomes too risky to either escape or continue the mission 2) it also reduces the micro requirement to keep a dropship strat viable. Getting a good infiltration going is already Mico intensive enough, you also have to remember to set a repair guy afterwards. With a self-repair ability, you can be sure that the dropship will always be available for your next infiltration play.

Stealth Predators are absolute S Tier. Who needs Bunker Walls when you have non detectable Stealthy Boys.

i am curious about the bunker planetary

I love the missile frigate. If you want a building to never die, park one near it, along with a medic and an scv. All 3 can fix it at the same time.

When I saw the Missile Frigate I thought "Valkyrie on crack", it feels like a mix of the OG BW Valkyrie and the anti-ground variant of the Valkyrie in the SC1 Huncraft mod, plus the LotV Carrier's repair drones.

Some changes/upgades for the units Grant mentioned: Thor: Make it so each thor have a single nuclear missile that is stronger (but not as much) then the normal ones, it fits with the Lore and make it up for the lack of the area damage cannon while not making it too OP since you only get one per thor. Banshee: I don't know if it's possible, but make it so if you have 5 (or more) banshes gives you an option to make an airstrike (like the one in the cutscene of gates of hell) in a visible area of the map. Dropship: Instead of an infinite cloak, what about giving it a timed super cloak? it would solve the problem of anti drop mechanics while not making it super OP since the drops take some time to complete, so if you drop in an area full of anti air you will probably lose the unit. Viking: ...i got nothing, for real, maybe add a little speed boost or atk speed boost, but aside from that, i got nothing Spectre: If the confusion is too OP, what about a limited mind control? like, the spectre can mind control a unit, but only one unit per spectre and the unit is freed when the specter died, kinda like what nova did, or make it so it can perma control but each spectre have a limited amount of charges of it (like 2, same with the medic's turrets)

Just wondering. What would you think of having the Siege Tank's RNG replaced with a pair of cooldowns? (Maybe share the cooldowns instead) maybe a "Stun Shell" - (Fires a special shot with bonus range, which does little damage, Which stuns) and something like "Incediary Shell" - (Does little damage with bonus range, But applies a powerful burning effect) So it's more intresting than "Oh it fires special shells sometimes" and give you control to use it as a support unit for sieges.

One niche way of using the phantom dropship I can think of would be against Zerg. slap those bad boys with irradiate, cloak and then fly into the enemy for meme damage.

i feel the siege tank should had been: tank mode: its attack is just the siege mode attack. so you can react faster with them if they get attack while sieging a enemy base. siege tank mode: change to attack only air units but is super slow in attacking, so it wont outright replace missile turrets. they're more a back up air defense.

I believe the ghost's snipe can't target massive unit in the mode (same as confusion for specter's) which balance the ability a bit. But it still feels as ghost but closer to pvp-game ghost with old-one autocast snipe.

Imagine doing co-op or pvp with the mobius units One heck of an experience for sure

I'd be interested in seeing how this would hold up in a melee setting, yes including units that step on the toes of other units, rule of cool is more important in my opinion :b

A way the siege tank could have worked could be stunning if the blast hits more than 2 units, or slow and reduce units range by 1 on units hit by it (or maybe the medic's granade effect). That way you keep the element of supression, making it so the tank wants to target clumps of enemies to use their full strength instead of just being a default siege tank with RNG.

The ghost and specters being op as all hell makes sense i think. They are the elite forces, they should be able to wreck stuff.

I played this custom campaign, and there are some changes SCV don't transform to hercs anymore, but can still use the hook

Btw, Ghosts also stun mechanical units with EMP in this mod, so ghosts are even BETTER than what grant just said

How I would have changed the siege tank is removing the stun and making a Switch that can be used while in siege mode It can switch between normal siege mode and anti-air, using the missile turrets AoE attack style. Basically going from siege tank to flak cannon.

The mod changed the rng component of the crusio siege tank. It stun every 2 attack instead of having 50% chance to stun

Don't forget that ghosts also have emp that stuns mechanical stuff

Mass ghost in this mod was so busted, they obliterate everything and with an attack range of 9 on top of snipe they outrange all detection in the game with permanent cloak to boot. Missile Frigate I felt invalidated the BC entirely. Its immensely durable, does high DPS, outranges nearly every static AA defense in the game. Its basically a Terran LotV Carrier. Mass em up and they can amove everything in the game.

Ngl Grant. I literally mined out All In, made as many field engineers and ghosts as I could with enough to get Stetmann. Killed all my bunkers and extra units. And just sat there as Kerrigan tried to razorswarm them all. 70 snipes later she is gone and I haven't lost a single supply. It is broken beyond belief.

the siege tank would have worked great if it did the same as co op mengsk, allow it to stun 100% of the time once every X seconds

The Raven seeker missile had a few changes done to it I think. I am pretty sure the delay after firing was longer, but it did more damage. It felt like it had longer range too, but I'm not sure.

What about the dominion mercs?

Moebius chalenge run could be interesting

Predator vs Kerrigan was a fun time

Is there anywhere I can see all the unit changes and their armory upgrades?

Wraith is good for its name. If you watch recent ASL it was used in a double starport build to amazing ro8 win.

Pretty good mod I do have to say.

One gripe I have with Medics/Field Engineers: the turrets are maddening to place in big numbers, or in combat. Each turret is a 2x2 structure and won't drop if a unit even thinks about being too close. The deeper you go in the game, the bigger the units and armies, and the more difficult placing a turret becomes. Not to mention it impedes movement. The ability quickly became a liability. I would take a nerf to turret damage in exchange of being able to place them from further away.

What if the firebats instead of doing damage overtime it’s somehow adds “light” to the units type.. doesnt remove “armoured” unless that’s what you want it to do and it makes firebats and other anti light more viable. Tho I get it would be really weird to add a really slow guy with a really fast boy. Just a interesting thought

Would the phantom dropship be op if it had a short term super cloak? kinda like Crooked Sam from CooP? dart past detention and start dropping, maybe enough time that if you ignited afterburners first you'd be halfway unloaded before cloak ran out?

you can put sieged siege tanks in a drop ship and a lot of them.

For the banshees, I think a good thing would be to give them the AOE of nova's banshees and make it cost energy. As a counterbalance, make them have an ability that regenerates their energy when killing an ennemy unit, making them into really cool extremely offensive stealth bombers.

"And I'm a fish"

Hi Grant I know no shit about SC2 editor but I really would like to make my own Race swapped WoL with GGG mod launcher Do you know where I could find some sort of "tutorial" + you can use "singular they" if you don't know, it doesn't eat much bread and it feel better

i think a good boost to banshee is a upgrade that give banshee perm cloak. for the viking, i think mengsk viking would be a good model for mobieus

Not sure which you would put this interaction under, but the phantom dropship has the ability to pick up sieged siege tanks. I would literaly boost into a position and drop a bunch of tanks to clear an area.

They should have gave the Banshee the ability to throw the cluster grenades reapers had while lowering the time they had invisible.Make them the perfect surgical strike unity that hits hard and runs away.

is there plans for a mobius mod thing for Hots or LotV?

I wonder if one day we will have 1v1 on the arcade of moebius or legacy of the meme. Or one against the other xD

The things I'd do to get missile frigates in co-op....

This MOD was awesome

For the thor, viking, and banshee. Okay, thor. I'm not certain if grant actually got the cannon upgrade for it, but if he did then this i think would be good. Give the thor the barrage ability (preferably with a sped up animation) and keep the single target one as a separate ability, possibly on a global cooldown. That way the thor has its usually block of stats dueling capacity and lovely AoE, but with mobieus spice of a nice anti capital ship ability. Viking. Hard unit to change, but given it's called the sepharim, have you considered giving it 7 wings and 537 eyes? Jokes aside, strap a couple of gatling guns to it's air model, it has 2 anti air attacks now. Maybe get rid of the transformation upgrade for that ine. It's walker mode is covered to well by the goliath in this mod for me to really consider working in that. It's nice, but not what the viking is about. And finally, the banshee. Give it the adepts shade ability, but forcibly disable its cloak for maybe 10 seconds after it teleports to the shade. That way you can sneak past defenses, offensively or defensively, but your cheese potential is pretty limited. Just suggestions for whoever it is runs the mod, I'm not in the discord so i won't be sticking these there.

auto cast irradiate was amazing!

i think that, while ghost might be as strong as specters, auto snipe is much more fun than confusion. so i'd give em higher grade ;p

I think the condor hellion has regenerating mines, doesn't it?

We need one of theese for hots

Honestly the siege tank is automatically my favorite unit in any campaign

HOTS or LOTV terran moebius edition next?? :D

Spectre: this unit is so OP I didn't like to use it -> B tier. Made me chuckle

I think a slow for the siege tank or a stun on light units would be better.

Positive skewed Bell Curve

ironic how ghost is still unkeyed even in the tier list

Thor coulda been entirely replaced with the Warhound (only Mengsk gets these) and been entirely custom with what it does

I thought the ghost was more fun than the spectre, because even though auto-cast snipe is still really really strong, it feels a lot more satisfying to use.

me: looking at legionaire's hotkey A next to A tier then looks at swan hotkey also me: ass now is perfection

Maybe Thors could take a page out of Battletech's book and replace their cannons with a jetpack ability, perhaps with an AoE damage and/or stun where they land. Death from above!

I would love to see the firebat turn into the Raynor co op double hp firebat but have it cost 150 minerals. Meaning its useable with mech compositions, since it doesnt take valuable factory time. And i feel like it would make the thor more viable because the thor on its own feels slow to kill any significant number of enemies as it lacks any good zergling killer that pairs with it.

I NEED HELP PLEASE : Downloaded both the Custom campaign manager and the files for the Moebius mod, followed the instructions by dragging the zip file of the moebius mod in the manager but It says invalid, tried the option to select the file and it can't read it :( !!! Fid I do something wrong ? Please someome HELP !

I kinda want thors to be able to fire while moving. It's a heavy walker mech, so it kinda makes sense that it can move forward while going weapons free. If the goliath can do it, why can't the thor?